₦airaland Forum

Samantha125:
I never said you mustn't use them for different purposes, what I'm against is you cherry picking some traditional practices to suite your narratives while you're busy demonizing traditionalists... Desist from everything that involves tradition and embrace your Christianity wholeheartedly.

You can use all those things, but for different purposes without conflicting your values.

Then you have no point. If this is your position, you have simply been spamming us and strwamanning is worth baseless arguments.

I turned your logic against you and you saw it crumbling .

If you want to debate Christians who attack you over your choice of deity, come out plain and discuss that. Stop jumping around traditional marriages to sneak in your ulterior motive against Christianity.

Focus on the propriety and otherwise of traditional marriage by Christians. That is what you started with. If you had talked about anyone attacking you for your religious worldview, I won't comment and won't disturb you. But if you spam and strawman us, we will point that out to you.

You're free to use those kola nuts, powders, goats, or etc for different purposes, use them to form your own Christian traditions instead of using them to mimick the ways of traditionalists as it only makes you to appear as hypocrites.

amoco:
You already convinced us here you don't understand what people's traditions are. You want to squeeze us into your myopic mold of tradition and Christianity. It doesn't work that way.

Your idols didn't create eggs, kolanuts, powders, goats, rams, trees, fruits, vegetables,dresses etc used to appese them. Why would arrogate exclusive ownership and patency of these items to them?

In Igboland we tell every deity the trees they were cut from when they disturb us. We know all of these things. Please stop struggling to be more Catholic than the Pope. It won't work. It's not working

So basically you're admitting to being a traditionalist in disguise...

amoco:
I am deeply rooted in all Igbo traditions more than many who even claim the "traditionalist' titles. I am more qualified than you to discuss Igbo traditions. I lived through it and still active in my community.

Perhaps you have weak and ignorant christians who fed you lies about what Christianity is.

A Christian is a HUMAN BEING IN A COMMUNITY who follows Jesus Christ but is still a human living amongst their communities. Why are you crying over this? Is it too hard to understand?

Samantha125:
Apart from civil marriage which is a legal marriage, there's no other marriage that's not spiritual.

And if you call slaughtering a cow at a wedding for food and worshipping the God that you believe in in your own personal space without hurting others fetish, then it means Christians do practice fetishism as well because they'd be slaughtering cows for consumption at their weddings and worshipping that idol they call Jesus.

This doesn't make sense at all.
Slaughtering cows become idol worship? As how now?

Who are the idols that are trying to claim ownership of kolanuts, goats, sheep, rams, powders, forests, drinks, palm oil, biter kolas, clothing items etc? Idols we know the woods they were cut out from?

If an idol is cut out from nature, it is at best part of creation and can never lay claim to the Creator status.

They never created these items and don't have any right or claim to them aside from the ones humans attributed to them.

Only 1 creator God who made the heavens and earth has claim to these things.

Adjust your argument and come back pls

Samantha125:
So basically you're admitting to being a traditionalist in disguise...

I am basically telling you that I am a bonafide Christian and hail from a community of traditions where I also play great roles to play my part according to human standards and expectations and biblical expectations of what it means to be a community member.

Samantha125:
You're free to use those kola nuts, powders, goats, or etc for different purposes, use them to form your own Christian traditions instead of using them to mimick the ways of traditionalists as it only makes you to appear as hypocrites.

All of them were created by the Christian God Jehovah. No idol made them and so cannot claim them. This is my position.

You didn't turn anything against me... You can use those products to form your own Christian traditions instead mimicking the ways of traditionalists.

Because you can't be copying the same people that you deem as diabolical.

amoco:
Then you have no point. If this is your position, you have simply been spamming us and strwamanning is worth baseless arguments.

I turned your logic against you and you saw it crumbling .

If you want to debate Christians who attack you over your choice of deity, come out plain and discuss that. Stop jumping around traditional marriages to sneak in your ulterior motive against Christianity.

Focus on the propriety and otherwise of traditional marriage by Christians. That is what you started with. If you had talked about anyone attacking you for your religious worldview, I won't comment and won't disturb you. But if you spam and strawman us, we will point that out to you.

Samantha125:
Community traditions should be practiced by traditionalists since you guys would be denigrating them for staying true to their traditional ways... If people from different tribes with different beliefs can coexist within the same communities, then it means you guys can do the same... True Christians follow Christian traditions, else you're just a traditionalist disguising as a Christian.

In my community,we do everything together aside from the sacrifices "traditionalis" do. They know our position and they respect that.
Most of the leadership of the community are Christians who are trusted to lead well.

We don't go around fighting our brothers and sisters. Everyone respect the other.

When issues come up, we settle them as a community and forge ahead.

In 2026 we are looking for money and development.
Christians are freely practicing their religion and others theirs. No one has time to go looking around what the other is doing.

Samantha125:
You didn't turn anything against me... You can use those products to form your own Christian traditions instead mimicking the ways of traditionalists.

Because you can't be copying the same people that you deem as diabolical.

Lol!

Please if anyone had attacked your belief, go after that person and leave me alone. I don't come online to attack anyone's worldview. But I can comfortably discuss my beliefs and my worldview and my community traditions.

Again, Christians won't leave any grounds for you because the Christian God made all those things. You are the one to leave them for us actually.

No community member is more authentic than the other because of religious diversity. Everyone can lay claim to their community because we are born there. That's the basis.

You're right, no idol made them, including Jehovah as he's also an idol...

Nature made them, hence you're free to use them to form your own Christian traditions instead of mimicking others.

amoco:
All of them were created by the Christian God Jehovah. No idol made them and so cannot claim them. This is my position.

I only see a confused soul living in denial...

amoco:
I am basically telling you that I am a bonafide Christian and hail from a community of traditions where I also play great roles to play my part according to human standards and expectations and biblical expectations of what it means to be a community member.

Samantha125:
You're right, no idol made them, including Jehovah as he's also an idol...

Nature made them, hence you're free to use them to form your own Christian traditions instead of mimicking others.

God Jehovah made the universe and is supernatural.
Every other thing is made and is part of nature and therefore are creatures.

God is the creator. We all are creatures.
God is supernatural. We are not.
God's existence is necessary. Ours is contingent.

Nature didn't create nature. Nature can only reproduce nature already created by God who sits at the end of the chain if you keep moving backwards to timelessness

Samantha125:
I only see a confused soul living in denial...

Now that you are seeing the light, it's a bit confusing to you abi? Lol

It's only in your brainwashed delulu head whereby the Christian god made all those things when nature was the one that made them, and where did I say you must leave your communities?

amoco:
Lol!

Please if anyone had attacked your belief, go after that person and leave me alone. I don't come online to attack anyone's worldview. But I can comfortably discuss my beliefs and my worldview and my community traditions.

Again, Christians won't leave any grounds for you because the Christian God made all those things. You are the one to leave them for us actually.

No community member is more authentic than the other because of religious diversity. Everyone can lay claim to their community because we are born there. That's the basis.

You guys are just traditionalists disguising as Christians like many Africans do, we see this all the time, the sooner you accept it, them better.

amoco:
In my community,we do everything together aside from the sacrifices "traditionalis" do. They know our position and they respect that.
Most of the leadership of the community are Christians who are trusted to lead well.

We don't go around fighting our brothers and sisters. Everyone respect the other.

When issues come up, we settle them as a community and forge ahead.

In 2026 we are looking for money and development.
Christians are freely practicing their religion and others theirs. No one has time to go looking around what the other is doing.

Samantha125:
It's only in your brainwashed delulu head whereby the Christian god made all those things when nature was the one that made them, and where did I say you must leave your communities?

Nature didn't create nature. That's an established fact.

Chance didn't create things. Also established.

That's your delulu mind talking.

amoco:
God Jehovah made the universe and is supernatural.
Every other thing is made and is part of nature and therefore are creatures.

God is the creator. We all are creatures.
God is supernatural. We are not.
God's existence is necessary. Ours is contingent.

Nature didn't create nature. Nature can only reproduce nature already created by God who sits at the end of the chain if you keep moving backwards to timelessness

Do you have scientific evidence to support your claims?

amoco:
Nature didn't create nature. That's an established fact.

Chance didn't create things. Also established.

Samantha125:
You guys are just traditionalists disguising as Christians like many Africans do, we see this all the time, the sooner you accept it, them better.

Perhaps my debate with you all along is clear now: What you have been struggling to identify as traditionalists perhaps are good and responsible Christians who live in their bonafide communities and portray God well.

In that case, you are also a Christian.

If I knew your challenge was the definition of Christianity and what they do, this debate would have ended since.

I am happy to announce to you that you are a Christian and I am a traditional Christian.

Is that okay for you?

Samantha125:
Do you have scientific evidence to support your claims?

Scientific evidence? Lol! Well, scientists says WE DON'T KNOW. Why are you certain when scientists say they don't know?

And you know science doesn't even speak. It is human scientists who speak all the time. They don't scientifically know how creation started but they can analysis how nature reproduces and re-creates or evolves after the INITIAL CREATION.

By the way science doesn't discuss the creator God and the Bible God Jehovah. Those discussions are done in the Bible or in philosophy or religion. Almost everyone knows that.

Now that all your arguments have failed woefully, you've resorted to reverse psychology?

Just accept who you are and stop being in denial and ashamed... There's nothing shameful in being a traditionalist.

amoco:
Perhaps my debate with you all along is clear now: What you have been struggling to identify as traditionalists perhaps are good and responsible Christians who live in their bonafide communities and portray God well.

In that case, you are also a Christian.

If I knew your challenge was the definition of Christianity and what they do, this debate would have ended since.

I am happy to announce to you that you are a Christian and I am a traditional Christian.

Is that okay for you?

Samantha125:
That's your delulu mind talking.

These things are discussed at the highest levels of human scholarships. If you don't know, just leave it for those people to discuss. To you it is delulu. To me God is Obijuru.

You're not answering my question... YES OR NO!!!

amoco:
Scientific evidence? Lol! Well, scientists says WE DON'T KNOW. Why are you certain when scientists say they don't know?

And you know science doesn't even speak. It is human scientists who speak all the time. They don't scientifically know how creation started but they can analysis how nature reproduces and re-creates or evolves after the INITIAL CREATION.

By the way science doesn't discuss the creator God and the Bible God Jehovah. Those discussions are done in the Bible or in philosophy or religion. Almost everyone knows that.

I did leave them, in fact, I was busy minding my business on this thread when someone started calling me out for being a traditionalist.

amoco:
These things are discussed at the highest levels of human scholarships. If you don't know, just leave it for those people to discuss. To you it is delulu. To me God is Obijuru.

Samantha125:
You're not answering my question... YES OR NO!!!

You can't get a yes or no answer nah.
Science doesn't have explanations for origin of life and all creation. Science can discuss perpetuation of life or it's evolution or it's re-creation.

If science doesn't know, science cannot say "yes" or "no"..

Well, since you can't give scientific evidence to support your claims, then this discussion is over.

amoco:
You can't get a yes or no answer nah.
Science doesn't have explanations for origin of life and all creation. Science can discuss perpetuation of life or it's evolution or it's re-creation.

If science doesn't know, science cannot say "yes" or "no"..

geoworldedu:
Emeka 5:13

We see the books of Romans, Corinths, Galatians in their book. We have not seen the book of Lagos, Calabar, Oyo, Adamawa and Abia. Therefore we shall not consider the things which they say to us.

Proverbs 19:3 NIV
[3] A person’s own folly leads to their ruin, yet their heart rages against the Lord.

https://bible.com/bible/111/pro.19.3.NIV

Samantha125:
Well, since you can't give scientific evidence to support your claims, then this discussion is over.

It's like you are a novice in these things.
Do you have any science text that tells you how creation started? Yes or no?

If you can't respond, then forget it.

Do you know what they call strict scientism? That's where you are erroneously falling into. Stick to your deities and leave this unfamiliar terrain.

Well, all those products that you mentioned were harvested from nature, some of which were then processed into something else, that's enough scientific evidence to prove that nature is the one providing vital resources to sustain our society.

So until you have scientific evidence to support your claims about how God was the one who created those products and not nature, keep quiet.

amoco:
It's like you are a novice in these things.
Do you have any science text that tells you how creation started? Yes or no?

If you can't respond, then forget it.

Do you know what they call strict scientism? That's where you are erroneously falling into. Stick to your deities and leave this unfamiliar terrain.

Samantha125:
Apart from civil marriage which is a legal marriage, there's no other marriage that's not spiritual.

And if you call slaughtering a cow at a wedding for food and worshipping the God that you believe in in your own personal space without hurting others fetish, then it means Christians do practice fetishism as well because they'd be slaughtering cows for consumption at their weddings and worshipping that idol they call Jesus.

Nigerians slaughter cows, goat etc for every occasion. Its very normal over here regardless of your faith, entertainment and enjoyment is a must in a Nigerian setting.

WantsandMore:
Proverbs 19:3 NIV
[3] A person’s own folly leads to their ruin, yet their heart rages against the Lord.

https://bible.com/bible/111/pro.19.3.NIV

Korshekorsh 1:3
3. Who can be as foolish as the gods of religion[Jehovah, Allah...], who neglected the works of findings God Almighty assigned to them and invented religion so that humanity can worship them forever and ever?

geoworldedu:
Korshekorsh 1:3
3. Who can be as foolish as the gods of religion[Jehovah, Allah...], who neglected the works of findings God Almighty assigned to them and invented religion so that humanity can worship them forever and ever?

Proverbs 11:21 NIV
[21] Be sure of this: The wicked will not go unpunished, but those who are righteous will go free.

https://bible.com/bible/111/pro.11.21.NIV