₦airaland Forum

CoolUsername:
Nothing is eternal in the past in the sense that it has existed for infinite time. The closest we can get to eternity is the age of the of the universe itself. This is because the universe is the spacetime continuum thus there has never been a time when it didn't exist. This doesn't mean it has existed for an infinite amount of time

This of course implies that a creator outside the entire system necessarily exists

LordReed:
Ok so where did energy come from?

cc: DeepSight

Energy is not a thing. Energy is immaterial. You can almost say there's no such thing as energy

QuinQ:
This of course implies that a creator outside the entire system necessarily exists

No, that is an incoherent statement. It is meaningless to exist outside spacetime. You are essentially saying that the creator exists nowhere and never. This is the same thing as saying that the creator doesn't exist.

QuinQ:
You saying the present moment doesn’t exist.
Well, if it doesn't exist then nothing exists because things must exist in now otherwise they don't exist. Right?

Events exist in the past and future. The present is such a miniscule and fleeting moment (10^-43 seconds) that there's no point bothering ourselves about it

CoolUsername:
Events exist in the past and future. The present is such a miniscule and fleeting moment (10^-43 seconds) that there's no point bothering ourselves about it

But past and future don't actually exist. Only now exists

QuinQ:
Energy is not a thing. Energy is immaterial. You can almost say there's no such thing as energy

Bro energy is a physical quantity that can be measured. It definitely is a thing. BTW you didn't answer the question, where did it come from?

CoolUsername:
No, that is an incoherent statement. It is meaningless to exist outside spacetime. You are essentially saying that the creator exists nowhere and never. This is the same thing as saying that the creator doesn't exist.

Are you saying humans understand everything?
There are things humans can't conceive of at all, can't even start to imagine - that's where the creator exists!

LordReed:
Bro energy is a physical quantity that can be measured. It definitely is a thing. BTW you didn't answer the question, where it it come from?

We are discussing wether material things can be eternal. Energy is not material anything. It is property we assign to things. Asking where it came from is like asking where height came from!

QuinQ:
Are you saying humans understand everything?
There are things humans can't conceive of at all, can't even start to imagine - that's where the creator exists!

LoLz. If humans cannot understand it then how did you get to know it exists in this no place, no time locus?

LordReed:
LoLz. If humans cannot understand it then how did you get to know it exists in this no place, no time locus?

CoolUsername:
The burden of proof is on you to establish how anything can exist outside of spacetime. If you cannot establish that, your argument fails at its premise

We intrinsically know there are things we don't know and can't even conceive of. Example, diagram below is how things really are; but we can't conceive it. Another example, illusion of time - only now is real. Another example, illusion of free will

QuinQ:
Are you saying humans understand everything?
There are things humans can't conceive of at all, can't even start to imagine - that's where the creator exists!

The burden of proof is on you to establish how anything can exist outside of spacetime. If you cannot establish that, your argument fails at its premise

QuinQ:
We are discussing wether material things can be eternal. Energy is not material anything. It is property we assign to things. Asking where it came from is like asking where height came from!

Height is a quality of the space time continuum so in essence it would be asking where did the space time continuum come from. Bro you are just dodging the question because you know it will skewer what you are trying to establish. If you claim your god created energy then it means your god exists without energy which just further strengthens the point that your god is nonexistent. Energy can be measured, immaterial as it is. The same cannot be said for your magic space wizard that lives in a no space, no time locus (which just means it doesn't exist).

QuinQ:
We intrinsically know there are things we don't know and can't even conceive of. Example, diagram below is how things really are; but we can't conceive it. Another example, illusion of time - only now is real. Another example, illusion of free will

Bro you just keep dodging the questions. How do you know it exists in this no place, no time locus? Don't dodge.

CoolUsername:
The burden of proof is on you to establish how anything can exist outside of spacetime. If you cannot establish that, your argument fails at its premise

LordReed:
Bro you just keep dodging the questions. How do you know it exists in this no place, no time locus? Don't dodge.

But scientists and mathematicians have determined there are upwards of 12 dimensions, yet it is impossible for you to conceive of there being more than 4.
We KNOW we don't know about 99% of what there is to know.

physical space and time had a beginning (the Big Bang), meaning whatever caused or sustained them must logically precede and sit outside them!

QuinQ:
But scientists and mathematicians have determined there are upwards of 12 dimensions, yet it is impossible for you to conceive of there being more than 4.
We KNOW we don't know about 99% of what there is to know.

physical space and time had a beginning (the Big Bang), meaning whatever caused or sustained them must logically precede and sit outside them!

Still no reason to believe assertions without proof. By that logic, I can just say Superman exists outside space and time and you would have to accept it without proof since "we dont know everything".

QuinQ:
But scientists and mathematicians have determined there are upwards of 12 dimensions, yet it is impossible for you to conceive of there being more than 4.
We KNOW we don't know about 99% of what there is to know.

physical space and time had a beginning (the Big Bang), meaning whatever caused or sustained them must logically precede and sit outside them!

This is a self-defeating argument. One event preceding another already means time exists. To say something preceded the big bang is essentially saying that time existed before the beginning of time. This is incoherent.

QuinQ:
PRN?

Na wa for u o..
Sebi u d call me Yaba

QuinQ:
But scientists and mathematicians have determined there are upwards of 12 dimensions, yet it is impossible for you to conceive of there being more than 4.
We KNOW we don't know about 99% of what there is to know.

physical space and time had a beginning (the Big Bang), meaning whatever caused or sustained them must logically precede and sit outside them!

Ask AI (your favourite method) if there is an outside to the universe. LoLz.

Meanwhile are you conceding that you don't KNOW, that you are merely conjecturing this god?

CoolUsername:
This is a self-defeating argument. One event preceding another already means time exists. To say something preceded the big bang is essentially saying that time existed before the beginning of time. This is incoherent.

Even if it was the case, it just means time is infinite and still defeats his argument.

LordReed:
Height is a quality of the space time continuum so in essence it would be asking where did the space time continuum come from. Bro you are just dodging the question because you know it will skewer what you are trying to establish. If you claim your god created energy then it means your god exists without energy which just further strengthens the point that your god is nonexistent. Energy can be measured, immaterial as it is. The same cannot be said for your magic space wizard that lives in a no space, no time locus (which just means it doesn't exist).

What does this statement mean?:
If you claim your god created energy then it means your god exists without energy

Bottom line, yiu can't point to anything and say this is height. Likewise energy. They are attributes we assign to things

QuinQ:
What does this statement mean?:
If you claim your god created energy then it means your god exists without energy

Bottom line, yiu can't point to anything and say this is height. Likewise energy. They are attributes we assign to things

Yes MEASUREABLE THINGS.

My question is where did energy come from? You CANNOT say your god created it because it will mean your god existed at some point without energy which would be a dumb claim. And you cannot claim energy always existed which will invalidate the necessity for a god. Either way your case is screwed.

LordReed:
Ask AI (your favourite method) if there is an outside to the universe. LoLz.

Meanwhile are you conceding that you don't KNOW, that you are merely conjecturing this god?

QuinQ still waiting for an answer.

LoLz. How are you finding the discussion? Do you still think I was defeated? Bwahahahahahahaha!

Royaldescent:
If Igbos were Middle Eastern then the male population would process the male bloodline of the Middle East..its that's simple. Many Creole men, Somalians, Lembe and Ethiopian men pocess Middle Eastern bloodline but we don't go around blasting that we're the True Israelites. That's a bold claim and its discrimination because it implies all others are false. Especially when Igbos zero Middle Eastern bloodline but are saying so because they're envious of those groups who do.

The disrespect of Creoles by African Americans and Igbos who are genetically related but have zero Middle Eastern bloodline is way overboard. Creole is a culture and many of us came from various French ethnicities and not all of us came from raped Igbo or West African women. We are not your people or nobodies. And Creoles don't go around saying we are anyone else but Creole. It's African Americans and Igbos who say that they're Egyptians, Moors, Hebrews and other prestigious ancient people that they can attach a claim. I can prove anything I say about African Americans and Igbos commitiing these acts with evidence.

Igbos never said we are Egyptians or Moors or anything else. Other tribes may say such but not Igbos. We have only ever said we came from ancient Egypt when Eri, son of Gad, grandson of Jacob, escaped from Egypt with his family and went south (probably with Egyptians in hot pursuit). It is an oral tradition that was there long before slave trade (never mind what Europeans say), and sometime in the future advanced scientific methods will be used to determine that the Igbo oral tradition was right all along.

Meanwhile here's the beginning of "No Longer at Ease" by Chinua Achebe, a sort of sequal to "Things Fall Apart". Achebe wrote it at 26.
Tell me if you were able to resist buying and reading the rest of book

No longer at ease continues

"No Longer At Ease" continues

Continuing "No Longer At Ease"

"No Longer At Ease" continuing

** Nairaland won't let me post any more screenshots

DiarisGodoo:
Igbos never said we are Egyptians or Moors or anything else. Other tribes may say such but not Igbos. We have only ever said we came from ancient Egypt when Eri, son of Gad, grandson of Jacob, escaped from Egypt with his family and went south (probably with Egyptians in hot pursuit). It is an oral tradition that was there long before slave trade (never mind what Europeans say), and sometime in the future advanced scientific methods will be used to determine that the Igbo oral tradition was right all along.

Meanwhile here's the beginning of "No Longer at Ease" by Chinua Achebe, a sort of sequal to "Things Fall Apart". Achebe wrote it at 26.
Tell me if you were able to resist buying and reading the rest of book

The books do not dispute that the Igbo people captured others, engaged in human sacrifice, or traded human beings. In fact, Chinua Achebe explicitly includes these brutal historical realities in Things Fall Apart to show that pre-colonial Igbo society was not a flawless utopia.Instead of denying these facts, the book reframes why and how they happened, directly challenging the European conclusion that these actions proved Africans were mindless, subhuman barbarians.

QuinQ:
But scientists and mathematicians have determined there are upwards of 12 dimensions, yet it is impossible for you to conceive of there being more than 4.
We KNOW we don't know about 99% of what there is to know.

physical space and time had a beginning (the Big Bang), meaning whatever caused or sustained them must logically precede and sit outside them!

Good point.
The controller is always outside the main system

Royaldescent:
The books do not dispute that the Igbo people captured others, engaged in human sacrifice, or traded human beings. In fact, Chinua Achebe explicitly includes these brutal historical realities in Things Fall Apart to show that pre-colonial Igbo society was not a flawless utopia.Instead of denying these facts, the book reframes why and how they happened, directly challenging the European conclusion that these actions proved Africans were mindless, subhuman barbarians.

By the way, Nairaland did not let me post the first part of the chapter, and the last part. So you have to get the book or I'll post them later.

Why not read the books ["Things Fall Apart" and "No Longer At Ease"] or at least one of them before commenting. Only "Things Fall Apart" is PRE-colonial by the way.
There is no chattel slavery and there's no human sacrifice to any god. Remember, the issue was wether American chattel slavery existed in pre-colonial Igbo land.

RealityKings1:
Good point.
The controller is always outside the main system

How can there be any outside of the universe if the universe is the sum total of all that exists?