₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
What you don't seem to understand is your input is also used as data for the response to be crafted. Go look at studies that show that these LLMs lean towards agreeing with you depending on how you structure your inputs. You aren't arguing with an intelligent agent, you are using prompts to elicit algorithm based responses. Check out the ones that agree that Islam is correct, will you now become a Muslim?

Stop using AI for affirmation. That's how you get AI that tells you to kill your mum.

This is ridiculous. You are exactly arguing with a very intelligent agent - more intelligent than a PhD holder in the field. Only that the intelligence is artificial not human. Example, if you play checkers with AI, the default is that it will beat you every time because it analyzes all the possible moves and arrives at the best one, UNLESS errors were intentionally fed to it to give you a chance at winning. So also AI will always give the correct answer, if you define "correct" as the position you arrive at after analyzing all the info available, unless errors were intentionally fed to it, which AI companies don't usually do.

QuinQ:
This is ridiculous. You are exactly arguing with a very intelligent agent - more intelligent than a PhD holder in the field.

Ọmọ faith has nothing to do with those who are INTELLIGENT because what the world values as intelligence has no place with God. 1Corinthans 3:19
Jesus said:

“I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children" Matthew 11:25

As at the time Jesus uttered those words the PhD holders of the day viewed Jesus and his disciples as novices yet the fruit of faith is produced only among Jesus' disciples who were all below 40 years back then whereas the Pharisees were octogenarians and masters in the field of philosophy!

So instead of leaning towards what the world called knowledge why not humbly welcome divine wisdom where you can see things clearly?

The topic of this thread is religion it makes no practical sense arguing aimlessly without asking:
"What should true religion achieve in our society?"
Then we can see clearly what is happening!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ faith has nothing to do with those who are INTELLIGENT because what the world values as intelligence has no place with God. 1Corinthans 3:19
Jesus said:

“I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children" Matthew 11:25

As at the time Jesus uttered those words the PhD holders of the day viewed Jesus and his disciples as novices yet the fruit of faith is produced only among Jesus' disciples who were all below 40 years back then whereas the Pharisees were octogenarians and masters in the field of philosophy!

So instead of leaning towards what the world called knowledge why not humbly welcome divine wisdom where you can see things clearly?

The topic of this thread is religion it makes no practical sense arguing aimlessly without asking:
"What should true religion achieve in our society?"
Then we can see clearly what is happening!🙂

Yet it is intelligence that produced this internet you are happily using and not religion. So also most modern amenities. It is artificial INTELLIGENCE that is making many tasks much easier today, not religion. So intelligence has it's place, as does religion.

As for "What should true religion achieve in our society?", it definitely should NOT achieve a cultish organization and concealment and protection of child sexual abusers!

QuinQ:
As for "What should true religion achieve in our society?", it definitely should NOT achieve a cultish organization and concealment and protection of child sexual abusers!

So what should true religion achieve in our society?🙂

MaxInDHouse:
So what should true religion achieve in our society?🙂

It.is much easier to start with what it SHOULD NOT achieve.
1) It should not achieve a hypocritical group of people who oppose law enforcement (by means that could include violence and war) but won't go and live in a lawless place or amongst people who wish them harm, but would rather live a society made.peaceful through the war they are opposed to.
2) It should not produce a group of people without a mind of their own, a people who parrot whatever leadership says. A people who cannot have their own opinions.
3) It should not produce a people more terrified of appearing to deviate from leadership and excommunication than they are of anything God might do.
4)It should not produce a secretive people who are much more interested in presenting a deceptive all-wholesome image of their group, than in exposing and punishing wrong-doers like child molesters
5) It should nor produce a cult where people are not intellectually free

Those are some of the things religion should not achieve!

QuinQ:
It.is much easier to start with what it SHOULD NOT achieve.
1) It should not achieve a hypocritical group of people who oppose law enforcement (by means that could include violence and war) but won't go and live in a lawless place or amongst people who wish them harm, but would rather live a society made.peaceful through the war they are opposed to.
2) It should not produce a group of people without a mind of their own, a people who parrot whatever leadership says. A people who cannot have their own opinions.
3) It should not produce a people more terrified of appearing to deviate from leadership and excommunication than they are of anything God might do.
4)It should not produce (a secretive people who are much more interested in presenting a deceptive all-wholesome image of their group, than in exposing and punishing wrong-doers like child molesters
5) It should nor produce a cult where people are not intellectually free

According to the Bible what should true religion achieve in our society?🙂

You can all see how really difficult it is to nail it simply because most people don't want to accept the truth?🙂

The simple question is:

What should true religion achieve in our society?

Not

What should false religion achieve in our society?

Just imagine asking someone to list the features of real money but instead he keeps on describing what he believes to be fake money. How does that solve the problem nah?😂

MaxInDHouse:
According to the Bible what should true religion achieve in our society?🙂

Now we are clear what it should NOT achieve, let's delve into what it should achieve.
It should achieve:
1) A society where people are intellectually free and not afraid to voice desent for fear of being excommunicated
2) A society where people are not hypocritical and oppose law enforcement while only wanting to live in a lawful society.
3) It should produce a group of people with a mind of their own, a people who don't parrot whatever leadership says. A people who can have their own opinions.
4) A people not at all terrified of appearing to deviate from leadership and excommunication but are instead afraid of anything God might do.
5)An open people who are much more interested in exposing and punishing wrong-doers like child molesters than in presenting a deceptive all-wholesome image of their group
6) A non-cultish armtmosphere where people are intellectually free, and free to form close friendships with whom they choose.

God is an invisible being (spirit) so we can't see him! John 4:24

Of course lots of debates will arise from different people regarding things that's happening around which they will need answers to URGENTLY. This will surely call for serious questions about whether if there is truly any powerful and loving person somewhere who has all the power to solve our problems but somehow has been silence towards our plight.

Despite all these people from all the nations have believed that there is or are some supernatural beings who should be worshiped and there is no culture or race that's void of beliefs in the supernaturals.

So why do people despite living in different parts of the planet all believe in God/Gods/Goddesses?

All these are questions we all need to ponder over and not just discard it simply because we feel different.

Whether we like it or not the idea of God and worship has been here as long as humans have existed on this planet so the most important question we need to find answers to now is what should true religion achieve in the human society?🙂

You missed a vital point:

ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE!

If you believe (trust) in God you should allow Him to set the standards and not presumptuously assuming things for yourself because it's God we want to worship not you?

So back whatever you are saying with the scriptures and point to a religion that has achieved it since we want to believe that God is alive and He has the ability to organize His worshipers!🥱

QuinQ:
Now we are clear what it should NOT achieve, let's delve into what it should achieve.
It should achieve:
1) A society where people are intellectually free and not afraid to voice desent for fear of being excommunicated
2) A society where people are not hypocritical and oppose law enforcement while only wanting to live in a lawful society.
3) It should produce a group of people with a mind of their own, a people who don't parrot whatever leadership says. A people who can have their own opinions.
4) A people not at all terrified of appearing to deviate from leadership and excommunication but are instead afraid of anything God might do.
5)An open people who are much more interested in exposing and punishing wrong-doers like child molesters than in presenting a deceptive all-wholesome image of their group
6) A non-cultish armtmosphere where people are intellectually free, and free to form close friendships with whom they choose.

So what did God's word says about His worshipers in the last days?

The true religion must gather humble people from all the nations under one umbrella since our Creator is the God of all race. Isaiah 2:2

The true religion must educate all these people so that they all have one central unit of control over dos and donts! Isaiah 2:3

After this the true religion must help all adherents throughout the world to settle disparities peacefully among themselves, divert their resources into production of food and information materials, eradicate making, buying, selling and using of weapons since they all believe/ agree/ trust in eternal judgement of their invisible supreme being and finally they will vow never to raise weapons against anyone be it friends or foe! Isaiah 2:4

By so doing there must be LOVE among them {John 13:34-35} so no member will be a beggar throughout the world {Psalms 23:1; 37:25} their widows and orphans will not be loitering around for food {James 1:27} and the world will be aware that this religion is unique! Matthew 5:14-16

But since they don't use weapons to settle matters among them how are they going to deal with unrepentant wrongdoers?

To be continued....

MaxInDHouse:
You missed a vital point:

ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE!

If you believe (trust) in God you should allow Him to set the standards and not presumptuously assuming things for yourself because it's God we want to worship not you?

So back whatever you are saying with the scriptures and point to a religion that has achieved it since we want to believe that God is alive and He has the ability to organize His worshipers!🥱

The leadership of a group is not God, neither is the Bible. The early Christians didn't have NT yet they were the most ardent Christians.
All societies have God. But all societies that survived also had wars. Did you think of that?

QuinQ:
This is ridiculous. You are exactly arguing with a very intelligent agent - more intelligent than a PhD holder in the field. Only that the intelligence is artificial not human. Example, if you play checkers with AI, the default is that it will beat you every time because it analyzes all the possible moves and arrives at the best one, UNLESS errors were intentionally fed to it to give you a chance at winning. So also AI will always give the correct answer, if you define "correct" as the position you arrive at after analyzing all the info available, unless errors were intentionally fed to it, which AI companies don't usually do.

So the AI was correct when it "intelligently" led those 2 people to murder?

LordReed:
So the AI was correct when it "intelligently" led those 2 people to murder?

Don't know what you're referencing. It is important to show the question you asked in using AI to affirm something

According to "strict logic, observational science, and mathematical probability", there is God.

QuinQ:
This video below uses strict math, logic, and science to have Grok 4 (Elon Musk’s AI - touted to be more intelligent than all PhDs combined) agree that God is real and that evolution, life from non-life (abiogenesis), etc, make absolutely no sense. See the transcript below


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga7m14CAymo?is=n5E9tu48uO81LTJ_

budaatum:
According to "strict logic, observational science, and mathematical probability", there is God.

Voila!
But according to everything else, according to generality of everything it knows, if you ask it if it believes in God it will say no!
If you ask why, it will say no clear evidence

QuinQ:
The leadership of a group is not God, neither is the Bible. The early Christians didn't have NT yet they were the most ardent Christians.
All societies have God. But all societies that survived also had wars. Did you think of that?

The first century disciples were using the scriptures the only issue they had back then is how to convince Judaists that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah so it's after they had formed churches in the name of Christ that they began writing about him and how they started Christianity which you and i are reading today. So God is their King through the use of SCRIPTURES! 2Timothy 3:15-17

Wars happens due to disagreements but Jesus commanded us not to be part of the world {John 17:14-16} so when world rulers are sending people to go and kill people we tell them that our own Master Lord and King commanded us not to raise weapons for settling issues! Matthew 26:52

That is why you can only read about the killing of Christians but never find where the Bible says Christians also kill their enemies! Matthew 5:43-44; Luke 6:35

If we are to join in world conflicts how are we going to save our brothers in Christ that Jesus commanded us to love just as he loves us? John 13:34-35

Now is the time to know what religion supposed to achieve in human society!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
The first century disciples were using the scriptures the only issue they had back then is how to convince Judaists that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah so it's after they had formed churches in the name of Christ that they began writing about him and how they started Christianity which you and i are reading today. So God is their King through the use of SCRIPTURES! 2Timothy 3:15-17

Wars happens due to disagreements but Jesus commanded us not to be part of the world {John 17:14-16} so when world rulers are sending people to go and kill people we tell them that our own Master Lord and King commanded us not to raise weapons for settling issues! Matthew 26:52

That is why you can only read about the killing of Christians but never find where the Bible says Christians also kill their enemies! Matthew 5:43-44; Luke 6:35

If we are to join in world conflicts how are we going to save our brothers in Christ that Jesus commanded us to love just as he loves us? John 13:34-35

Now is the time to know what religion supposed to achieve in human society!🙂

Not true. There was no NT. Things were written down much later, so were St. Paul's letters

QuinQ:
Not true. There was no NT. Things were written down much later, so were St. Paul's letters

What you are calling NT was the 27 books written by Jesus' disciples the 39 books of Hebrew-Aramaic scriptures were in use and that is what Judaists need to be convinced that Jesus is the Christ not what his own followers wrote nah!😟

QuinQ:
Don't know what you're referencing. It is important to show the question you asked in using AI to affirm something

I shared a screenshot of 2 different people whose use of AI led to murder but you accede to my point by stating "It is important to show the question you asked in using AI to affirm something". If the AI was intelligent it would not have led these people to commit murder. In one case it fed the man's delusions urging him to get rid of his mother because she was his problem. LLMs are not intelligent they are algorithms with sentence construction trees. It is a sophisticated form of GIGO, you feed it delusions it will give you delusion back. So don't come here using it as an arbiter of intelligence. That is truly ridiculous.

MaxInDHouse:
What you are calling NT was the 27 books written by Jesus' disciples the 39 books of Hebrew-Aramaic scriptures were in use and that is what Judaists need to be convinced that Jesus is the Christ not what his own followers wrote nah!😟

But the 39 books are full of wars and God directly participated in them.
Also, it is not true Christians did not kill. Have you forgotten the Crusades? Muslims were out to convert the whole Europe by force and were well on their way towards doing it!

QuinQ:
But the 39 books are full of wars and God directly participated in them.
Also, it is not true Christians did not kill. Have you forgotten the Crusades? Muslims were out to convert the whole Europe by force and were well on their way towards doing it!

I'm talking about CHRISTIANITY in the Bible not what churches of Christendom later started doing after the death of Apostles:

“The Kingdom of the heavens may be likened to a man who sowed fine seed in his field. While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat and left. When the stalk sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds also appeared. So the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it have weeds?’ Matthew 13:24-27

When the Apostles are sleeping in death that is when Satan's agents started claiming Christian and going to kill people in the name of Christianity!🙂

LordReed:
I shared a screenshot of 2 different people whose use of AI led to murder but you accede to my point by stating "It is important to show the question you asked in using AI to affirm something". If the AI was intelligent it would not have led these people to commit murder. In one case it fed the man's delusions urging him to get rid of his mother because she was his problem. LLMs are not intelligent they are algorithms with sentence construction trees. It is a sophisticated form of GIGO, you feed it delusions it will give you delusion back. So don't come here using it as an arbiter of intelligence. That is truly ridiculous.

You just described man. If you feed him delusions he will give you delusions back. Even AI experts are not sure exactly how it becomes so smart, but you know! People like Musk have said AI will surely take over the world unless seriously checked, and could develop a form of consciousness. Nobody understands the exact mechanics of all this - except you!

QuinQ:
You just described man. If you feed him delusions he will give you delusions back. Even AI experts are not sure exactly how it becomes so smart, but you know! People like Musk have said AI will surely take over the world unless seriously checked, and could develop a form of consciousness. Nobody understands the exact mechanics of all this - except you!

AI made a people commit murder! It is not intelligent enough to choose not to feedback delusion! Not that it even makes choices, its a freaking dialogue tree designed for engagement. You are like all those people who marry their AI boyfriends or girlfriends.

LordReed:
AI made a people commit murder! It is not intelligent enough to choose not to feedback delusion! Not that it even makes choices, its a freaking dialogue tree designed for engagement. You are like all those people who marry their AI boyfriends or girlfriends.

Am not saying all this out of thin air.
I was listening to an AI pioneer and expert being interviewed and heard him say that when they set AI to be self-learning they expected it to be just as you said, but something happened, something they don't understand, and it became way much more. Same way, they won't understand how it develops consciousness. If it were just as you describe no one would be worried it will take over the world.

MaxInDHouse:
I'm talking about CHRISTIANITY in the Bible not what churches of Christendom later started doing after the death of Apostles:

“The Kingdom of the heavens may be likened to a man who sowed fine seed in his field. While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat and left. When the stalk sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds also appeared. So the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it have weeds?’ Matthew 13:24-27

When the Apostles are sleeping in death that is when Satan's agents started claiming Christian and going to kill people in the name of Christianity!🙂

Christian history did not end with the Apostles.
Muslims declared they were out to convert the whole of Europe. Here's an example you'll better understand - Muslim fanatics in Nigeria have declared that their aim is to deep the Koran into the Atlantic. Please tell me how you intend to stop them from doing just that.

QuinQ:
Christian history did not end with the Apostles. Muslims declared they were out to convert the whole of Europe. Here's an example you'll better understand - Muslim fanatics in Nigeria have declared that their aim is to deep the Koran into the Atlantic. Please tell me how you intend to stop them from doing just that.

It was after the death of first century Apostles that the Antichrist appeared in the name of Christians and doing the exact opposite of what Jesus commanded his disciples! 1John 2:18

They are the ones who goes about fighting and killing people before the Muslims took over from them.
If those Antichrists didn't attack Muhammad claiming they were doing it for Christ Muhammad won't start fighting back.

It seems you trust the AI so you can ask which religion first started fighting for God between Muslims and Christians?

LordReed:
AI made a people commit murder! It is not intelligent enough to choose not to feedback delusion! Not that it even makes choices, its a freaking dialogue tree designed for engagement. You are like all those people who marry their AI boyfriends or girlfriends.

Also AI is not static. Just few months ago you could tell which are AI photos because they had extra fingers, etc, now you can't tell. It is waay more than a dialogue tree. Just like a child it will incorporate this into it's pool of knowledge - a child eventually learns you don't tell a person contemplating suicide how best to do it!

QuinQ:
Am not saying all this out of thin air.
I was listening to an AI pioneer and expert being interviewed and heard him say that when they set AI to be self-learning they expected it to be just as you said, but something happened, something they don't understand, and it became way much more. Same way, they won't understand how it develops consciousness. If it were just as you describe no one would be worried it will take over the world.

AII is not self learning yet. At least none of the LLMs you use right now are self learning.

MaxInDHouse:
It was after the death of first century Apostles that the Antichrist appeared in the name of Christians and doing the exact opposite of what Jesus commanded his disciples! 1John 2:18

They are the ones who goes about fighting and killing people before the Muslims took over from them.
If those Antichrists didn't attack Muhammad claiming they were doing it for Christ Muhammad won't start fighting back.

It seems you trust the AI so you can ask which religion first started fighting for God between Muslims and Christians?

Not true. Muslims were attacking people all over and forcing people to choose Islam or death. They had a stated aim of converting all of Europe. Only counter-attack checked them,

LordReed:
AII is not self learning yet. At least none of the LLMs you use right now are self learning.

What would you call this below

QuinQ:
Also AI is not static. Just few months ago you could tell which are AI photos because they had extra fingers, etc, now you can't.l tell. It is waay more than a dialogue tree. Just like a child it will incorporate this into it's pool of knowledge - a child eventually learns you don't tell a person contemplating suicide how best to do it!

We are talking about right now not the future.