ChinenyeN: I'm enticed, but I'll hold my tongue for now. This could make for a very interesting thread. What's the premise here? What are we trying to converge on, because I can definitely see this topic going several different directions.

Ihuomadinihu: All views or perspectives are welcome. The study of the ISUS could probably reveal the true origin/identity of Igbos.
I found a controversial article written by Ndagi Abdullahi, which claims that Igbos originated from the Gara kingdom around the Niger-Benue valley....probably one of the many pseudo historians out there. I will post it later.

Radoillo: Is Mbaise reckoned as part of Isuama/ Isoma?

Radoillo: The Isu factor is (to me) one of the biggest enigmas in Igbo history.

It appears to me that Isu could have been an ethnonym for a large, ancient Igbo-speaking group that formerly occupied much of the northern section of what geographers call the Awka-Orlu uplands. A number of communities in this northern section of the uplands still bear 'Isu' in their names... Isu-Aniocha, Isuofia. I think there is also an Isulo (Isu-Ulo?) somewhere in Orumba area. Perhaps these represent surviving enclaves of a culture group that was formerly widespread in that area before the immigration of a different Igbo-speaking stock from the Anambra Basin colonized the area and pushed the Isu farther south. My hypothetical immigrants from the Anambra River Basin probably introduced the dialect strain which is now considered the 'stereotypical Anambra tongue' (with Ani/Ana for Ali/Ala and Ife for Ihe). The dialects spoken by the ancient Isu (going by evidence from the southern section of the Awka-Orlu uplands, i.e., Northern Imo State and Southern Anambra State) would have approximated what we would now consider as 'stereotypically Imo'.

In some Nnewi traditons there seems to be some remembrance of the conflict between the (hypothetical) 'Anambra-speaking' incoming groups and the Isu who seem to have preceded them in that area, and whose leaders were referred to in Nnewi traditions as Eze Isu. Even today the dialects spoken in that general area seem to be a cross between the stereotypical 'Anambra' and the stereotypical 'Imo'. According to some oral accounts, it was some of the Isu expelled from the Nnewi area that went west and established Igbuzo.

Perhaps it was the Isu who moved south that congregated in the Orlu section of the uplands and became the Isu-Ama. And I think Afigbo was right when he translated 'Ama' in this instance, not as 'centre/square/town', but as 'outside'. Thus Isu-Ama (according to Afigbo) means 'The Isu who have gone abroad'. Isu-Ama (in more historical times) would become a source of population pressure on the Southern Igbo groups.

This is all just a hypothesis pieced together from scant traditions and an imperfect understanding of dialects. But perhaps you guys from the Southern Igbo area who have been in more contact with the Isu in recent times than we in the north have been may have an enlightening perspective on this. This could be educating.

*Apologies if this post does agree with your intentions in creating this thread. I realize I may have gone off tangent.*

Radoillo: Is Mbaise reckoned as part of Isuama/ Isoma?

abagoro: You can read chapter 10 of this book and know a bit more about old Igboland as recorded by "Baikie" who happens to be the origin of the use of "Bekee" by Igbo in reference to White men.

http://www.archive.org/stream/narrativeofexplo00baik/narrativeofexplo00baik_djvu.txt

abagoro:

Mbaise is not Isuama but some parts of Mbaise is. Mbaise is not a homogeneous entity. It is more or less a recent amalgam and coinage with a combination of people that were originally Uratta, Isu and Ohuhu or Ezinihite.

Isuama starts North and West of Owerri.

Ihuomadinihu:
I'm confused. Is Ohuhu not part of Isuama.

Ihuomadinihu: i'm looking at the term 'Isoma' but you can start from any angle.

Abagworo: The forgotten or scattered ancestry of Igbos makes some assumptions or hypothesis form part of most views expressed by Igbo historians. I personally believe that the "Isu" term is same as "Isoma" or "Isuama" and is related to language. "People that speak purer Igbo" . In Igbo language to speak Igbo means "Isu Igbo" and language is "asusu" or "okwu" but I'll go with "asusu" here because the backbone of it is "su" of "isu".

To speak well is "Isuma". I believe the language known today as Igbo is likely original Isu language and as you depart from that area so do we have variations.

Isuikwuato Abia

Isunjaba Imo

Isu etche Rivers

Isuofia Anambra

Isu Onicha Ebonyi

The term Isu occurs as much as the term "Onicha", "Ihite", "Itu", "Nkanu/Akanu" and some other names which I consider tribe-related across Igboland. Itu I believe belongs to same Itu found today in Akwa-Ibom that does not speak Igbo. The Isu belongs to same Isu found everywhere.

Radoillo:

The only problem is that ịsụ (to speak) and Isu (the Igbo groups) are pronounced differently and both words have different vowels.

I don't also buy into the idea that the Isu or any other Igbo-speaking group from central Igboland speak 'original or purest Igbo'. It sounds a lot like the mistake early Sierra Leonean linguists made while researching Igbo language in the late 19th century. In fact,I think the dialects of central Igboland (including the Isu dialects) have been very innovative compared to frontier dialects such as Ehugbo. I have reason to believe that Ehugbo and some other frontier dialects have been somewhat conservative and have preserved 'archaisms' which the more central dialects have lost.

Radoillo: I have reason to believe that Ehugbo and some other frontier dialects have been somewhat conservative and have preserved 'archaisms' which the more central dialects have lost.

Abagworo:


I seem to share that Ehugbo/Afikpo view in terms of preservation of more ancient form of Igbo. Based on the way its pronounced in Ikwerre language "Isoma" sounds more like "Isụma" than "Isuama".

The Igbo spoken in Isu is very strange and is nowhere near the central Igbo we speak today. In fact if undiluted it is as confusing as every other peripherial dialect of Igbo when compared with today's standard Igbo.

Abagworo:


I seem to share that Ehugbo/Afikpo view in terms of preservation of more ancient form of Igbo. Based on the way its pronounced in Ikwerre language "Isoma" sounds more like "Isụma" than "Isuama".

The Igbo spoken in Isu is very strange and is nowhere near the central Igbo we speak today. In fact if undiluted it is as confusing as every other peripherial dialect of Igbo when compared with today's standard Igbo.

Ihuomadinihu:

Wow,that was interesting.
So, what is Elugu? He also described the ichi bearers as Isuama people. Mgburichis are supposed to be Nri,right?
Don't wanna start anything but he gave a sordid account of Ngwas and Ndonis,not forgetting the Aros, who i believe owe Igbos an apology for intentionally exploiting the cave complex.

Ihuomadinihu:

I would say the Isus speak the most ancient igbo dialect,considering their aboringal history in Igboland. Isoma from Owerri to Ikwerre is just a term for people that were supposedly less evolved.

Radoillo:
The Isu factor is (to me) one of the biggest enigmas in Igbo history.

It appears to me that Isu could have been an ethnonym for a large, ancient Igbo-speaking group that formerly occupied much of the northern section of what geographers call the Awka-Orlu uplands. A number of communities in this northern section of the uplands still bear 'Isu' in their names... Isu-Aniocha, Isuofia. I think there is also an Isulo (Isu-Ulo?) somewhere in Orumba area. Perhaps these represent surviving enclaves of a culture group that was formerly widespread in that area before the immigration of a different Igbo-speaking stock from the Anambra Basin colonized the area and pushed the Isu farther south. My hypothetical immigrants from the Anambra River Basin probably introduced the dialect strain which is now considered the 'stereotypical Anambra tongue' (with Ani/Ana for Ali/Ala and Ife for Ihe). The dialects spoken by the ancient Isu (going by evidence from the southern section of the Awka-Orlu uplands, i.e., Northern Imo State and Southern Anambra State) would have approximated what we would now consider as 'stereotypically Imo'.

In some Nnewi traditons there seems to be some remembrance of the conflict between the (hypothetical) 'Anambra-speaking' incoming groups and the Isu who seem to have preceded them in that area, and whose leaders were referred to in Nnewi traditions as Eze Isu. Even today the dialects spoken in that general area seem to be a cross between the stereotypical 'Anambra' and the stereotypical 'Imo'. According to some oral accounts, it was some of the Isu expelled from the Nnewi area that went west and established Igbuzo.

Perhaps it was the Isu who moved south that congregated in the Orlu section of the uplands and became the Isu-Ama. And I think Afigbo was right when he translated 'Ama' in this instance, not as 'centre/square/town', but as 'outside'. Thus Isu-Ama (according to Afigbo) means 'The Isu who have gone abroad'. Isu-Ama (in more historical times) would become a source of population pressure on the Southern Igbo groups.

This is all just a hypothesis pieced together from scant traditions and an imperfect understanding of dialects. But perhaps you guys from the Southern Igbo area who have been in more contact with the Isu in recent times than we in the north have been may have an enlightening perspective on this. This could be educating.

*Apologies if this post does agree with your intentions in creating this thread. I realize I may have gone off tangent.*

Abagworo:
The forgotten or scattered ancestry of Igbos makes some assumptions or hypothesis form part of most views expressed by Igbo historians. I personally believe that the "Isu" term is same as "Isoma" or "Isuama" and is related to language. "People that speak purer Igbo" . In Igbo language to speak Igbo means "Isu Igbo" and language is "asusu" or "okwu" but I'll go with "asusu" here because the backbone of it is "su" of "isu".

To speak well is "Isuma". I believe the language known today as Igbo is likely original Isu language and as you depart from that area so do we have variations.

Isuikwuato Abia

Isunjaba Imo

Isu etche Rivers

Isuofia Anambra

Isu Onicha Ebonyi

The term Isu occurs as much as the term "Onicha", "Ihite", "Itu", "Nkanu/Akanu" and some other names which I consider tribe-related across Igboland. Itu I believe belongs to same Itu found today in Akwa-Ibom that does not speak Igbo. The Isu belongs to same Isu found everywhere.