Luke 2:22-24. "And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons."


A Baby Dedication is a ceremony in which believing parents, and sometimes entire families, make a commitment before the Lord to submit a child to God's will and to raise that child according to God's Word and God's ways.

Child dedication is the act of giving back to God the gift he has given you as parents. It is an act of worship, thanksgiving, dependence, trust, and commitment. The practice of child dedication has been modeled throughout the Bible.

Now non Presbyterian churches called this child dedication while we see Catholics refer to this as infant baptism,my point of opening this thread is for proponent who are in the campaign of condemning the law of Moses to air their views on this issue.

There is nowhere in scriptures that Paul discussed to the early churches about child dedication but i believe the early church practiced it strictly in principle from the mosaic laws( i stand to be corrected sha) as well as marriages which is also copied from OT scriptures.

The only place i see Paul talked about children is:

Ephesians 6:4:

"fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord." God's instructions are plain.

Since our brothers say tithe is old testament law and should be as such discarded in churches,should child dedication also be discarded in churches? I need you views.

Op...Does child Dedication also involves;Buying of Big Cockrel...four Tubers of Big yams,two crates of malta guiness?Cos that was what A wife to my Friend did....she said it's Compulsory.but i strongly suspects she has been colonised by the pastor.pls i Nid answers.

[/quote]Now non Presbyterian churches called this child dedication while we see Catholics refer to this as infant baptism,my point of opening this thread is for proponent who are in the campaign of condemning the law of Moses to air their views on this issue. [quote]

Bros catholics do not refer to child dedication as infant baptism and I am yet to see anyone saying the dedication is compulsory or that it should be done on the 8th day as the law of Moses directed.Abeg try another line

chukwudi44: Now non Presbyterian churches called this child dedication while we see Catholics refer to this as infant baptism,my point of opening this thread is for proponent who are in the campaign of condemning the law of Moses to air their views on this issue.

Bros catholics do not refer to child dedication as infant baptism and I am yet to see anyone saying the dedication is compulsory or that it should be done on the 8th day as the law of Moses directed.Abeg try another line

Define infant baptism done in catholic churches.
Did you dedicate your children?

@Bidam,
I believe though there are lots of commandments of God that He gave through Moses to the Israelites for the daily living APART from the ones sealed at Horeb, I think the principle could still be in keeping till today as so desired remembering though that somethings changed.

The law stated there was drawn from Leviticus 12 and what were presented were for atonement and purification (sin offering) and the other as a burnt offering (which may today be a sacrificial offering).

There is nothing wrong in presenting our children for dedication to the Lord even the first born as we so desire in a special event but the special essence for the ceremony as done then, for atonement/purification/making clean using animal blood, is abolished in Jesus Christ's purifying, atoning and cleansing blood once and for all.
This is my take.

@Goshen, Gombs,Demi, Candour. Winsomx. Zickky. Babagoni. Mmbaemeka. Pastor Kun etal, we need to tiscus this. Cheers.

Is someone saying refusal to take my child to 'church' for dedication connotes disobedience to any law concerning me as a Christian? Is dedication done today because of Moses? Do we realize Moses dedication is only for the first born son?

You mean if i don't take my child to church for dedication, the child will not follow the ways of the lord when he grows up? Does it mean God will blacklist the child? Does it mean the child will be attacked by devourers or what exactly?

What exactly does child dedication have to do with my qualification or status as a child of God? What will happen if i don't engage in this ritual?

It's a very sensitive issue. However, we can do it to fulfil all righteousness. Besides, it's good to bring a baby to the presence of God.

I will contribute more later. Coincidentally, my daughter's dedication comes up on the 2nd November, 2014.

We, CHRISTIANS are not under ANY Jewish regulations whatever. The problem with the church is, they refused to study their own constitution going back into the law. The NT and Apostolic message doesn't teach child dedication. It shouldn't be made a CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE.....ROMANS 7 says We have no any intercourse with the law whatsoever.

Candour:
Is someone saying refusal to take my child to 'church' for dedication connotes disobedience to any law concerning me as a Christian?

No one said that. The OP mentioned some churches that followed a pattern because they saw it in scriptures.

Is dedication done today because of Moses?

Read the scripture quoted by the OP, did it mention Moses or the Lord? Do you agree children should be dedicated in the church?

Do we realize Moses dedication is only for the first born son?

Every christian who is born again is a firstborn, the connotation is spiritual not physical, i know this truth will be lost on you as usual.

You mean if i don't take my child to church for dedication, the child will not follow the ways of the lord when he grows up?

Whether you take your child today or not is insignificant. What is significant is that is child dedication a valid principle christians should adhered to? Our ancestors dedicated their children to idols in those days. Who gave them such ideas? Where did they copy it from?

Does it mean God will blacklist the child? Does it mean the child will be attacked by devourers or what exactly?

An argument that doesn't tally with the OP. A child who is not brought up in the way of the Lord will certainly end up on the other side of the ditch.

What exactly does child dedication have to do with my qualification or status as a child of God? What will happen if i don't engage in this ritual?

Do you call baptism a ritual, Do you call communion a ritual? What will also happen if you do not engage in such "spiritual connotation" as spelt out in your bible? And what does baptism and communion has to do with your status as a child of God?

dein77:
It's a very sensitive issue. However, we can do it to fulfil all righteousness. Besides, it's good to bring a baby to the presence of God.

I will contribute more later. Coincidentally, my daughter's dedication comes up on the 2nd November, 2014.

Congrat sir! I also have a daughter and her dedication was done in my chucrh as far back as 2009. She is 5 now.

Goshen360:
We, CHRISTIANS are not under ANY Jewish regulations whatever. The problem with the church is, they refused to study their own constitution going back into the law. The NT and Apostolic message doesn't teach child dedication. It shouldn't be made a CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE.....ROMANS 7 says We have no any intercourse with the law whatsoever.

Ok o. What is your understanding of being born again? Is it spiritual or physical? Are there Laws governing the "spirit world"?

Bidam:
Congrat sir! I also have a daughter and her dedication was done in my chucrh as far back as 2009. She is 5 now.

Thanks for the goodwill message.

Bidam:
No one said that. The OP mentioned some churches that followed a pattern because they saw it in scriptures.

Adventist insist on Saturday Sabbath because they saw the pattern in the bible. Do you follow them to observe it as well?

Read the scripture quoted by the OP, did it mention Moses or the Lord? Do you agree children should be dedicated in the church?

which law was quoted in the scripture you put up? Mosaic or New covenant? No. Dedication in church means nothing to me or the life of my child.

Every christian who is born again is a firstborn, the connotation is spiritual not physical, i know this truth will be lost on you as usual.

What has the above got to do with the discussion at hand? what truth are you putting forward that you're scared will be lost?

Who is being dedicated in the church? you or the child? who is born again? you or the child?

Whether you take your child today or not is insignificant. What is significant is that is child dedication a valid principle christians should adhered to?

The bolded is the truth you should know. It is totally insignificant to a Christian and no Christian needs to adhere to it. If you like, fine if not, fine. nothing to gain from it and nothing to lose from it.

Our ancestors dedicated their children to idols in those days. Who gave them such ideas? Where did they copy it from?

You should tell me. Did they get it from the bible too?

An argument that doesn't tally with the OP. A child who is not brought up in the way of the Lord will certainly end up on the other side of the ditch.

I simply wish to know what benefit it serves since you compare it to tithes. We hear of windows of heaven with tithes. What does child dedication open?

Do you call baptism a ritual, Do you call communion a ritual? What will also happen if you do not engage in such "spiritual connotation" as spelt out in your bible?

of course baptism and communion are rituals you should do well to place very far away from child dedication. It is grossly insignificant compared to those two.

And what does baptism and communion has to do with your status as a child of God?

Are you by any chance placing child dedication in the same class as baptism and communion?

dein77:



Thanks for the goodwill message.

You are most welcome.

Candour:


Adventist insist on Saturday Sabbath because they saw the pattern in the bible. Do you follow them to observe it as well?

I have no probs with the adventist as far as he doesn't impose it as a rule on me. I worship God everyday.

which law was quoted in the scripture you put up? Mosaic or New covenant? No. Dedication in church means nothing to me or the life of my child.

I quoted luke and it says the law of the Lord. Ok. If it means nothing to you fine.

What has the above got to do with the discussion at hand? what truth are you putting forward that you're scared will be lost?

What are you talking about? You are the guy evading questions here not me.

Who is being dedicated in the church? you or the child? who is born again? you or the child?

what do you understand by the word dedication to start with?

The bolded is the truth you should know. It is totally insignificant to a Christian

You answered for yourself not others abeg.

and no Christian needs to adhere to it. If you like, fine if not, fine. nothing to gain from it and nothing to lose from it.

ok thanks, your opinion is duly noted.

You should tell me. Did they get it from the bible too?

Pls.could you respond reasonably?

I simply wish to know what benefit it serves since you compare it to tithes.

Did i? I never knew. My bad.

We hear of windows of heaven with tithes. What does child dedication open?

May be more blessings na.Ok lets stick to the topic and stop deviating from issues raised.

of course baptism and communion are rituals you should do well to place very far away from child dedication. It is grossly insignificant compared to those two.

And who put those in a class far above child dedication. You? Or God?

Are you by any chance placing child dedication in the same class as baptism and communion?

Yes. Children are gifts from God and we are to nurture them in the fear of God since God placed them in our custody. I may even say the outward rituals of communion and baptism holds no value if you haven't dealt with your home issue first. My point is that they( child dedication, communion,baptism) are practised whenever saints gather.

Bidam:
I have no probs with the adventist as far as he doesn't impose it as a rule on me. I worship God everyday.

good

I quoted luke and it says the law of the Lord. Ok. If it means nothing to you fine.

hope you also remember the part in bold in the scripture you quoted

Luke 2:22-24. "And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons."

Do you obey that part too?

What are you talking about? You are the guy evading questions here not me.

really?

what do you understand by the word dedication to start with?

Define your own idea of dedication first, let's start from there

You answered for yourself not others abeg.

ok

ok thanks, your opinion is duly noted.

good

Pls.could you respond reasonably?

and you think that question was a reasonable one?

Did i? I never knew. My bad.

Then you should read your own posts before posting. what does the below from the OP mean if not that you are comparing child dedication to tithes?

Bidam: Since our brothers say tithe is old testament law and should be as such discarded in churches,should child dedication also be discarded in churches? I need you views.

May be more blessings na.Ok lets stick to the topic and stop deviating from issues raised.

Your OP is comparing tithes and child dedication so it's very relevant.

And who put those in a class far above child dedication. You? Or God?

Sorry. It's not a question of class. with respect to baptism and communion, child dedication doesn't exist. Its that useless an ordinance for a Christian unlike communion for instance Otherwise you'll need to point out a scripture that asks Christians to engage in this ritual.

Yes. Children are gifts from God and we are to nurture them in the fear of God since God placed them in our custody. I may even say the outward rituals of communion and baptism holds no value if you haven't dealt with your home issue first. My point is that they( child dedication, communion,baptism) are practised whenever saints gather.

Nurturing children up in the fear of God has to do with training not child dedication. Remember we are talking about child dedication, not Child training.

Watching!

Bidam:
Ok o. What is your understanding of being born again? Is it spiritual or physical? Are there Laws governing the "spirit world"?

I will address your question intensively later.

Candour:


good

ok

hope you also remember the part in bold in the scripture you quoted

Luke 2:22-24. "And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons."

Good you raise a valid point instead of the usual dribbles. Jesus is our perfect sacrifice hence no need for turtles etc.. Since All scripture is for doctrine, i already said a spiritual truth drawn from luke 2. is folks bringing their children to be dedicated unto the Lord. There is a pattern. God is not interested in sacrifice even Isaiah said so, and that is why it is of faith that it might be according to grace we come to dedicate our child to Jesus. Jesus is grace and truth.

Do you obey that part too?

I already answered we don't

Define your own idea of dedication first, let's start from there

i already defined it in the OP, so define yours.

and you think that question was a reasonable one?

Yes...why do our ancestors dedicate their child to idols? If you cannot answer say so.

Then you should read your own posts before posting. what does the below from the OP mean if not that you are comparing child dedication to tithes?

i never compared them, you did, i just made a reference to tithes to draw the tithe crowds who insist all the 5 books or torah are not relevant to christians. Ofcos there are many doctrines for the church taught by the apostles which are directly drawn from judaism and the law of moses.

Your OP is comparing tithes and child dedication so it's very relevant.

My op never made such comparism, i guess anywhere you see the word tithe mentioned your head starts spinning.

Sorry. It's not a question of class. with respect to baptism and communion, child dedication doesn't exist. Its that useless an ordinance for a Christian

God did not see child dedication useless in the OT..sorry your opinion holds no water here.

unlike communion for instance Otherwise you'll need to point out a scripture that asks Christians to engage in this ritual.

I already showed you Luke..is that not a NT scripture?

Nurturing children up in the fear of God has to do with training not child dedication. Remember we are talking about child dedication, not Child training.

The church is the foundation. Dedication is the starting point. To bring a child to zion in the presence of Jesus, the angels and the saints of God for dedication and identification is not a bad thing in itself.

Bidam:



Good you raise a valid point instead of the usual dribbles. Jesus is our perfect sacrifice hence no need for turtles etc.. Since All scripture is for doctrine, i already said a spiritual truth drawn from luke 2. is folks bringing their children to be dedicated unto the Lord. There is a pattern. God is not interested in sacrifice even Isaiah said so, and that is why it is of faith that it might be according to grace we come to dedicate our child to Jesus. Jesus is grace and truth.

@the bolded, you've been shooking me words since o and i dey ignore

See what you said

Bidam: I quoted luke and it says the law of the Lord. Ok. If it means nothing to you fine.

The above shows you regard it as the law of God which is binding on you. See the other conditions attached to it. if its a male child, the mother stays away from every hallowed thing for 40days and goes to the temple that 40th day. if it's a female, the mother says away for 80 days (Lev 12:1-8 ). This is in addition to the animal requirements. Do you obey those time conditions? if you say no, who permitted you to cut it out? God?

I already answered we don't

ok

i already defined it in the OP, so define yours.

Bidam said ''A Baby Dedication is a ceremony in which believing parents, and sometimes entire families, make a commitment before the Lord to submit a child to God's will and to raise that child according to God's Word and God's ways.''

I'll say 'a baby dedication is an opportunity for christians to declare they have surplus money and party while involving the church to make it adorn the garb of a spiritual event when in actual fact, it has nothing spiritual in it''

Yes...why do our ancestors dedicate their child to idols? If you cannot answer say so.

oya, tell me

i never compared them, you did, i just made a reference to tithes to draw the tithe crowds who insist all the 5 books or torah are not relevant to christians. Ofcos there are many doctrines for the church taught by the apostles which are directly drawn from judaism and the law of moses.

at the bolded, is child dedication one of them?

My op never made such comparism, i guess anywhere you see the word tithe mentioned your head starts spinning.

na christemmbassey lead me into this temptation o and you can see i'm avoiding the 10% now. infact i dey fear am

God did not see child dedication useless in the OT..sorry your opinion holds no water here.

Just as he saw turtle doves and pigeons as very important for child dedication in the same old OT.

I already showed you Luke..is that not a NT scripture?

Did you not see that same scripture mention turtles and pigeons? Do you carry them along?

The church is the foundation. Dedication is the starting point. To bring a child to zion in the presence of Jesus, the angels and the saints of God for dedication and identification is not a bad thing in itself.

where is zion? your church building? Is there no presence of Jesus and angels in your house? I'm not against anybody doing it and its not a bad thing. I see it as an opportunity for rejoicing with those who rejoice. What is bad is quoting a law of Moses to back it up when the whole process runs contrary to what God gave as a law to Moses.

Bidam, you are soooo soaked in Judaism but you think christianity is Judaism extended with Jesus as an addition. That's why you keep using the old to interpret the new. Christ came to CHANGE the whole Judaism to Christianity and He, Christ taught a whole new way but you, Bidam is still stucked in the old way and you're into the babylon church but might not know it. However, babylon means CONFUSED church, not an insult on your person. Get out of Babylon brother! !!

Candour:


@the bolded, you've been shooking me words since o and i dey ignore

See what you said


The above shows you regard it as the law of God which is binding on you. See the other conditions attached to it. if its a male child, the mother stays away from every hallowed thing for 40days and goes to the temple that 40th day. if it's a female, the mother says away for 80 days (Lev 12:1-8 ). This is in addition to the animal requirements. Do you obey those time conditions? if you say no, who permitted you to cut it out? God?






ok




Bidam said ''A Baby Dedication is a ceremony in which believing parents, and sometimes entire families, make a commitment before the Lord to submit a child to God's will and to raise that child according to God's Word and God's ways.''

I'll say 'a baby dedication is an opportunity for christians to declare they have surplus money and party while involving the church to make it adorn the garb of a spiritual event when in actual fact, it has nothing spiritual in it''





oya, tell me




at the bolded, is child dedication one of them?





na christemmbassey lead me into this temptation o and you can see i'm avoiding the 10% now. infact i dey fear am





Just as he saw turtle doves and pigeons as very important for child dedication in the same old OT.




Did you not see that same scripture mention turtles and pigeons? Do you carry them along?



where is zion? your church building? Is there no presence of Jesus and angels in your house? I'm not against anybody doing it and its not a bad thing. I see it as an opportunity for rejoicing with those who rejoice. What is bad is quoting a law of Moses to back it up when the whole process runs contrary to what God gave as a law to Moses.

ok...i go attend to this post later..make i rest small.

Goshen360:
Bidam, you are soooo soaked in Judaism but you think christianity is Judaism extended with Jesus as an addition. That's why you keep using the old to interpret the new. Christ came to CHANGE the whole Judaism to Christianity and He, Christ taught a whole new way but you, Bidam is still stucked in the old way and you're into the babylon church but might not know it. However, babylon means CONFUSED church, not an insult on your person. Get out of Babylon brother! !!

SMH! Person quote bible..e don automatically become judaism..this guy and his level of reasoning sha! OK God dey!

Bidam:
SMH! Person quote bible..e don automatically become judaism..this guy and his level of reasoning sha! OK God dey!

I only said that for just talk I WILL STILL ADDRESS YOUR QUESTIONS LATER WHEN I'M DONE WORKING.

Child dedication, house dedication, car dedication, wife/marriage dedication, job dedication, business/company dedication etc including their Oga tithe, all na false doctrines. The problem is those dat came b4 us did not know what they were involved in, they were/are so ignorant they are puting on d ropes/dressing prescribed for d levitical priests. Bidam, wetin you dey see chop for Judaism? You are not a Jew, na only houseboy to split wood dem fit manage you. Stand fast in Christ liberty.

The practice of child dedication was not seen among the early Christians.
I cannot say at what point it crept into the present day church especially those in the Charismatic and pentecostal circles.

While I do not see anything technically wrong with it, we must be careful not to make ourselves slaves of the law. It should be what a parent would do if they choose to and must not be discriminated against if they choose otherwise.

I do not personally believe in it, however, I would not condemn anyone who does. I will only bare my fangs against any ministry or person(s) that makes it a tradition in the church as against telling the people its a choice.

i'm following

Did you see house dedication and car dedication mentioned in the OP? Why are you creating a mischief here?

christemmbassey:
Child dedication, house dedication, car dedication, wife/marriage dedication, job dedication, business/company dedication etc including their Oga tithe, all na false doctrines. The problem is those dat came b4 us did not know what they were involved in, they were/are so ignorant they are puting on d ropes/dressing prescribed for d levitical priests. Bidam, wetin you dey see chop for Judaism? You are not a Jew, na only houseboy to split wood dem fit manage you. Stand fast in Christ liberty.

And the liberty in Christ is that no one is forcing you to dedicated your child, just like no one is forcing you NOT TO EAT PORK. You have no case here.

Your argument will be tenable if the OP insist people MUST do it so far i don't see the practice as highly legalistic neither is any church imposing it on believers so what is all these claims about judaism Some folks no dey read their bible well sha..SMH!

Lobeez:
The practice of child dedication was not seen among the early Christians.

Can you also point where the practice of seeing a Pastor for marriage seen among the early christians?

I cannot say at what point it crept into the present day church especially those in the Charismatic and pentecostal circles.

Ok.

While I do not see anything technically wrong with it, we must be careful not to make ourselves slaves of the law.

Ok.

It should be what a parent would do if they choose to and must not be discriminated against if they choose otherwise.

Good, the question is that should it be discarded like some people are advocating LEGALISTICALLY here in their arguments?

I do not personally believe in it,

i believe in it, does it take away my Christian liberty as some folks are insisting here?

however, I would not condemn anyone who does.

But your friends are calling folks who do it judaizers na..

I will only bare my fangs against any ministry or person(s) that makes it a tradition in the church as against telling the people its a choice.

When you talk about tradition..you need to thread softly..it was the custom of Jesus to teach in the synagogue every sabbath....a tradition

The Christians at jerusalem held all possesions in common...a tradition.

Paul made a vow and shaved his head....a tradition...these truths were applicable for these individuals at that particular time but not mandatory FOR ALL BELIEVERS ALL THE TIMES.

My point is there is nothing wrong if a church decide to dedicate children and see it as a tradition since they do not IMPOSE this rule on believers worldwide.

Bidam:
Did you see house dedication and car dedication mentioned in the OP? Why are you creating a mischief here? And the liberty in Christ is that no one is forcing you to dedicated your child, just like no one is forcing you NOT TO EAT PORK. You have no case here.

Your argument will be tenable if the OP insist people MUST do it so far i don't see the practice as highly legalistic neither is any church imposing it on believers so what is all these claims about judaism Some folks no dey read their bible well sha..SMH!

bros child dedication is found in Judaism and not in christianity, to be christian na by force? If love judaism stay and practice judaism, stop dfcieving urself bc its impossible to mixe or practice both judaism and christianity, unfortunately for you d jews can't accept you.

So also are many other christian practices like prayer,fasting,praising God etc..etc..found also in judaism.

christemmbassey:
bros child dedication is found in Judaism and not in christianity, to be christian na by force? If love judaism stay and practice judaism, stop dfcieving urself bc its impossible to mixe or practice both judaism and christianity, unfortunately for you d jews can't accept you.

I respect pastors, but as one i am very sorry to say that your level of comprehending what we are saying here is so shallow. Deal with the OP just like others are doing and stop attacking my person. Whether i am a jew or a gentile is irrelevant to the issue of the discuss.