As always this is Seun showcasing his hidden inbred brazen hardened hatred & partiality against the most popular religion on this section...christianity.No one should be fooled by the attempt to make this thread look targeted against all religions while we all know the religion that is recieving unrestrained favour and the one being brutally marginalised.

I've about concluded you aren't an atheist.Probably a mus_im undercover.It pains me to be hard on you now but I must for once use my democractic freedom to speak this known truth.Thanks & out.

Proffdada:
it has nothing to do with beliefs but knowing God truly exists. evidences as simple as grand design to complexity of consciousness are enough to tell you there's no need for anyone to instill lessons into mind.

how does it have nothing to do with beliefs when faith is the methodology used?
And your "grand design" and "complexity of consciousness" idea is but mere straws you use to cling on to your already accepted a priori belief....you have yet to demonstrate there being such an entity the "god" claims allege about in the first place and yet you've already used perceived phenomena you and theists alike observe in nature and term it designed....
You can call things designed and complex all day long....but until you can provide a reason that points to it being ex nihilo created you have no case... ...

Also you claim it isn't needed for things to be instilled into you but yet you were infact indoctrinated....and as such also trying to instill belief into others dogmatically....that is what separates teachers from clergymen..

imagine if there's no God? all the laws of physics or mathematical fundamentals will always be subjected to randomized results.

It was never established that any "god" exists in the first place otherwise I wouldn't be an atheist and everyone would all agree on what the concept of it is...instead of different "gods" and different sub-denominations for the same ones...
and the laws of physics are expressions we use to describe phenomena... mathematics lies in abstract extrapolations and derivations of defined terms....observed or not...practical or theoretical...

Seun:
The Meaning of Life


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6_9QmM6TfE

sure he created us just to worship and praise and obey him...but to address the area of lack ingenuity, he gave us a free will. thatz why we r so different from angels...yet both angels and man still found a way to disobey and break his heart..... and yet he still made a way of escape for man since we were only deceived. i beg you, don't point fingers in the face of such a merciful GOD!

Proffdada:

I thought I drew a line between belief and knowledge.

no....you claimed you have a knowledge of a "god" and not a belief....I told you that.... that which is believed on faith without evidence and cannot be shown or demonstrated to be true but believed only by faith is a belief....you terming things designed or complex doesn't change it unless you can demonstrate it to be true.... the claim of the being hasn't been proven and you are jumping to things that you think are evident or caused by the "god" claim....can an unjustified claim justify another unjustified claim?
Would leprechauns begin to exist if I label it supernatural? (analogy)

Trippledots:





sure he created us just to worship and praise and obey him...but to address the area of lack ingenuity, he gave us a free will. thatz why we r so different from angels...yet both angels and man still found a way to disobey and break his heart..... and yet he still made a way of escape for man since we were only deceived. i beg you, don't point fingers in the face of such a merciful GOD!

If the designed purpose is to have and be worshipped why free-will? and why punishment for exercising that free-will by violation of its desires?
If I were to buy a car that had a feature to drive itself anywhere and I wake up one day not to find it parked where I left it..can I sue or blame anyone for such an obvious design flaw? why would I even endorse or support such a feature if my own purpose is specific?

[quote author=Seun post=27741476]"The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law."

In other words, the bible says that anything in the bible that doesn't make sense doesn't make sense because it's not supposed to make sense, so you should just ignore those things and focus on doing the things that the bible says you should do. Don't you think that's a lousy argument?Suppose you're a student and

I am a very objective Christian i.e. not one that falls for every thing the pastor says. Before I go on let me ask you, what is christianity to you? A religion formed to chain people or? Please answer so that I can go ahead with my answer.

Seun:
"The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law."

In other words, the bible says that anything in the bible that doesn't make sense doesn't make sense because it's not supposed to make sense, so you should just ignore those things and focus on doing the things that the bible says you should do. Don't you think that's a lousy argument?Suppose you're a student and your teacher says something that makes no sense. Would you accept it just because he said he's always right?

Is it not convenient for a religious leader to write that deut 29:29. It makes the authority of the religious leader unquestionable.

No point talking too much jare.

What i know is very simple moses is no different from mohamed or abubarka shekau. They all find it convenient to control people in the name of god and they are not to be questioned

"THE REAL god AN EPIPHANY"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j8ZMMuu7MU

...

it's a shame atheism is an excuse some tend to seek solace in

davien:
If the designed purpose is to have and be worshipped why free-will? and why punishment for exercising that free-will by violation of its desires?
If I were to buy a car that had a feature to drive itself anywhere and I wake up one day not to find it parked where I left it..can I sue or blame anyone for such an obvious design flaw? why would I even endorse or support such a feature if my own purpose is specific?

the person i quoted initially queried why we r being created just to worship and obey Him....i said he gave us free will. now you query free will.



hmmm..


part of a song goes thus "if i told you the truth will you belief?". if your heart is made up to believe something its made up....no remedy except a change of mind.




as for the car analogy, no you wont sue anybody. What if the car keeps parking whereever it likes, causing carnage in its wake, and although you gave it the abillity to know right from wrong yet it continues harming, hurting and ultimately defying your advices, if that car had an expiry date wont you plan to do away with it as soon as its expired?

Trippledots:




the person i quoted initially queried why we r being created just to worship and obey Him....i said he gave us free will. now you query free will.



hmmm..


part of a song goes thus "if i told you the truth will you belief?". if your heart is made up to believe something its made up....no remedy except a change of mind.




as for the car analogy, no you wont sue anybody. What if the car keeps parking whereever it likes, causing carnage in its wake, and although you gave it the abillity to know right from wrong yet it continues harming, hurting and ultimately defying your advices, if that car had an expiry date wont you plan to do away with it as soon as its expired?

will you torture it forever for doing what it was designed to do?

Proffdada:
it's a shame atheism is an excuse some tend to seek solace in

At the end of the day....its a pic of unborn twins debating about the existence of "mom" is all you could do.....
no wonder talking donkeys seem perfectly natural to you

MissTeaseMe:

What i know is very simple moses is no different from mohamed or abubarka shekau. They all find it convenient to control people in the name of god and they are not to be questioned

Yea you said what you know and of course what you know cannot be accepted as the truth. What you know cannot change the truth of the story of Moses. What you know only satisfies your sentiments but it doesn't change anything. It remains your opinion. If I read the story of your life and decide not to believe certain part of the story does it change anything? No.

Seun:
"The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law."

In other words, the bible says that anything in the bible that doesn't make sense doesn't make sense because it's not supposed to make sense, so you should just ignore those things and focus on doing the things that the bible says you should do. Don't you think that's a lousy argument?Suppose you're a student and your teacher says something that makes no sense. Would you accept it just because he said he's always right?

the Bible is a book that unlock keys to a lot of understanding. but without a good guidance ,one can easily be mislead. and this I mean Holy Spirit not some 'man of God' the Bible is a manual but the choice of where you spend eternity is yours

Seun:
"The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law."

In other words, the bible says that anything in the bible that doesn't make sense doesn't make sense because it's not supposed to make sense, so you should just ignore those things and focus on doing the things that the bible says you should do. Don't you think that's a lousy argument?Suppose you're a student and your teacher says something that makes no sense. Would you accept it just because he said he's always right?

Thats a wrong assertion there. There is nothing secret about the bible. The problem is you as a person letting yourself go through the due process of understanding what is written there.

Anything written in the bible is no more a secret. The place that you quoted does not apply to things in the scripture rather things that are not written in the scripture. It is your shallow understanding that makes scripture a secret. The Holy spirit will always open our understanding to the ones we dont understand if we(including you) sincerely yield to him.

davien:
At the end of the day....its a pic of unborn twins debating about the existence of "mom" is all you could do.....
no wonder talking donkeys seem perfectly natural to you

donkeys do talk to each other in their own way

davien:
will you torture it forever for doing what it was designed to do?

You cant torture beyond your limit. He wont be here forever so the issue of torturing forever does not arise in this case.

Lol seun Thanks for the videos.....

Proffdada:
donkeys do talk to each other in their own way

so do monkeys

davien:
will you torture it forever for doing what it was designed to do?

for doing wrong yes i will.

MissTeaseMe:
Why we dont ask why
Simple

FEAR!

Church teaches, that without faith no one can please God. Right?

Truth is without fear there wont be religion. YES.

We avoid a lot of reasonable questions we shld be asking God or his reps (pastors, imams and the rest), but we dont because we are afraid of questioning God.

I take a serious look at my life all the fasting and prayers. Then when good things happen i credit it to God. For real has he done anything for me or i am just carried away in the euphoria of religion around me that credits all good things to God?

I recall praying for a friend with kidney failure all night. We were 3. We stayed up all night praying, yet the young lad died. I can go on and on with examples.

In the second video, a derailed train was mentioned, 17 people died and on little baby boy survived. Christains started celebrating the miracle of the baby that survived and pushed back the fact that 17 souls were lost.

*where the 17 dead worthless? (Tot God is love)
*you know of that 17 dead were bread winners whose family will suffer from their deaths.

This happens today in many churches where people come to give testimony and say they survived an accident that claimed many lives. So selfish!

I will be back to say more.

the purpose of the universe is not to be morally or
physically perfect, but to provide a place where spiritual creatures can
choose to love or reject God - to live with Him forever in a new, perfect
universe, or reject Him and live apart from Him for eternity.The next statement indicates that a perfect, loving God must create a
universe that is perfect. This is the statement that is false and
invalidates the argument. Nowhere does the Bible state that the universe was created to be perfect. God Himself called it "good"6 and "very good," but never "perfect." In fact, God Himself stated that part of the original creation was "not good." The Bible states that the current universe is not perfect, but was designed to be temporary and will be replaced with a perfect universe that will be permanent.Science also tells us that the universe was designed to be temporary.
The question is,What does God want?

God's purposes in creating the universe go beyond merely creating free
will beings that love Him in this temporary universe. Jesus explained
the ultimate goal of God in the parable of the banquet:

Jesus replied: "A certain man [representing God] was preparing a
great banquet and invited many guests. At the time of the banquet
he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, 'Come, for
everything is now ready.' But they all alike began to make excuses.
The first said, 'I have just bought a field, and I must go and see it.
Please excuse me.' Another said, 'I have just bought five yoke of oxen, and I'm on my way to try them out. Please excuse me.' Still
another said, 'I just got married, so I can't come.' The servant came
back and reported this to his master. Then the owner of the house
became angry and ordered his servant, 'Go out quickly into the
streets and alleys of the town and bring in the poor, the crippled,
the blind and the lame.' 'Sir,' the servant said, 'what you ordered has been done, but there is still room.' Then the master told his
servant, 'Go out to the roads and country lanes and make them
come in, SO THAT MY HOUSE WILL BE FULL. (Luke 14:16-23)

This parable tells that God wants not only a relationship with humans in this universe, but a relationship with billions of these creatures in His future, perfect creation. If God's purpose is to have relationships with free will beings in a future creation, then there must be a means
by which these beings can make a choice to enter or not enter into this
relationship. The means by which we make this choice is exactly the message of the Bible.Therefore. the Bible says that God allows temporary, bounded evil in order to allow free will beings to have the ability to love and to make
choices.Many things that people consider to be bad are, in fact, useful in our
spiritual growth. The Bible says that trials in our lives produce perseverance, which helps make us mature and complete. These trials also increase our faith - a "refining by fire." The Bible tells us that "all things to work together for good to those who love God." Let me give you a couple concrete examples in my own life that
illustrate these points.

1. God did not design this universe to be perfect, but as a temporary
creation where free will beings make choices about where they
want to spend eternity (in the new creation, which will be perfect). 2. The new creation will be perfect, but will not have absolute free
will for its inhabitants. We must agree in this life to give up some
of our free will in the next life. Those who are unwilling to give up
their own free will choices will not be forced to do so in the next
life. However, they will have to be separated from the new
creation, since God is unwilling to compromise His character.
3. All people will suffer at least somewhat because of bad choices
that others make. In addition, because of the temporary nature of
the universe, some bad things will happen to us due to "bad luck"
or chance. However, these things will teach us to be more sensitive
to the needs of others, and will prepare us to show God's love to
others when they suffer through similar things. God want us to learn from this life, not just have a party.

Seun
What I know is that the mysteries hidden under the sun will be revealed on the last days....

paulGrundy:
Seun wants to have us believe that he is an atheist so that he would dissociate himself from the changes that recently occured at the islamic section, hence driving back traffic to the religious section.

Seun has never hidden his being an atheist. He created a dedicated thread for his story sometime in 2007 or so.

Those of us that were on NL in its early days know.

He tries to maintain balance to people that don't share his belief though

davien:
"POWER CORRUPTS"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA5PlJiqOnk

"Where no "god" treads"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocgZaDmvYPw

MissTeaseMe:

Believe me, i know my naija peeps, they wont understand.
I have friends the argue that even rap, rock, hip hop are creations of the devil, even tho i tried all my best to let them see these are just plain creations of the human mind. Is it these same people that will watch the "afterlife is meaningless without afterlife" and understand?

Very few will understand it.

By the way, do you know many christains/muslims are actually skeptical about the existence of God, but wont reason it out cos they are afraid. They ask "what if"

The last resort is always, "what if you die and find out that what the bible says is all true, so let us just comply even if it is ridiculous"

Century before athiest even came to existence satan has been using
the same trick he use for eve to deceive mankind, you guys shuld realy
consider this:
satan not only rejected God by attempting to supplant Him, but he
urged humans to do likewise. Satan urged Eve to choose against God
for her own self-fulfilment: in genesis3:1-5.
He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall
not eat of any
tree in the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat
of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of
the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the serpent said to the woman, “You will
not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be
opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
NOW, LET US ANALIZE GENESIS1:3-5.
The tactic is clear: firstly, question God’s statements, then, contradict
God’s statements and, finally, urge rebellion in seeking equality with God.
How dos this relate to athiest?
This manifests in atheists as
1. Questioning whether there is a God to make statements in the first
place, so God did not say anything.
2. Contradicting the statements said to have been spoken by God.
3. Seeking equality with God by replacing God with the self. This
satanic deception appeals strongly to atheists as it bolsters two of
their desired delusions: 1) absolute autonomy—being free to do as
they please, and 2) the lack of ultimate accountability—there are no
eternal consequences for doing as they please. THIS IS EXACLTLY THE
TRICK SATAN USE ON EVE THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ATHIEST.

malvisguy212:
Century before athiest even came to existence satan has been using
the same trick he use for eve to deceive mankind, you guys shuld realy
consider this:
satan not only rejected God by attempting to supplant Him, but he
urged humans to do likewise. Satan urged Eve to choose against God
for her own self-fulfilment: in genesis3:1-5.
He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall
not eat of any
tree in the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat
of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of
the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the serpent said to the woman, “You will
not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be
opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
NOW, LET US ANALIZE GENESIS1:3-5.
The tactic is clear: firstly, question God’s statements, then, contradict
God’s statements and, finally, urge rebellion in seeking equality with God.
How dos this relate to athiest?
This manifests in atheists as
1. Questioning whether there is a God to make statements in the first
place, so God did not say anything.
2. Contradicting the statements said to have been spoken by God.
3. Seeking equality with God by replacing God with the self. This
satanic deception appeals strongly to atheists as it bolsters two of
their desired delusions: 1) absolute autonomy—being free to do as
they please, and 2) the lack of ultimate accountability—there are no
eternal consequences for doing as they please. THIS IS EXACLTLY THE
TRICK SATAN USE ON EVE THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ATHIEST.

What evidence supports all you've said

Why is it that you believe that tale of garden of eden but you dont believe in tooth fairies

You only believe cos you just chose to believe. Must likely you believe because you dont want to go to hell, you want to believe there is a loving father watching over you, etc. So you have no choice but to believe EVERYthing in the bible, even tho they are just tales by some people as their imaginations dim it fit to present god to humanity.

Tell me why you believe what you just typed, then we can talk.

Until then, you are no better than an hindu that worships a river or cow. They also have faith in their own gods and they all have their own sacred writing and stories of creation.

Argue with reason not pettiness and all this childishness.

(Tho i strongly doubt you will have anything reasonable to say) at best you will come back and blame the devil for deceiving people or start quoting bible and just standing your ground that everyone shld just take it as truth.

What is truth?

truth can never be refuted!
* it is TRUTH that if i shld use a knife to cutoff your head, you will die.

*it is truth if you put a blown balloon on water it will float.

*it is truth that you cannot walk through a wall

Is it truth that you can heal the blind?

Is it truth that you can pray and someone who is dead (head cut off) will rise again?

Can you pray for an amputee and get his cut off leg or hand to grow again?

Or cant God do all things?

Waiting for your answer. Maybe you will be the first human ever to successfully prove bible to be true.

Even if god exists, are you sure you know him or you just think you know him cos you read a book and dance in church and feel energized.

malvisguy212:
the purpose of the universe is not to be morally or
physically perfect, but to provide a place where spiritual creatures can
choose to love or reject God - to live with Him forever in a new, perfect
universe, or reject Him and live apart from Him for eternity.The next statement indicates that a perfect, loving God must create a
universe that is perfect. This is the statement that is false and
invalidates the argument. Nowhere does the Bible state that the universe was created to be perfect. God Himself called it "good"6 and "very good," but never "perfect." In fact, God Himself stated that part of the original creation was "not good." The Bible states that the current universe is not perfect, but was designed to be temporary and will be replaced with a perfect universe that will be permanent.Science also tells us that the universe was designed to be temporary.
The question is,What does God want?

God's purposes in creating the universe go beyond merely creating free
will beings that love Him in this temporary universe. Jesus explained
the ultimate goal of God in the parable of the banquet:

Jesus replied: "A certain man [representing God] was preparing a
great banquet and invited many guests. At the time of the banquet
he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, 'Come, for
everything is now ready.' But they all alike began to make excuses.
The first said, 'I have just bought a field, and I must go and see it.
Please excuse me.' Another said, 'I have just bought five yoke of oxen, and I'm on my way to try them out. Please excuse me.' Still
another said, 'I just got married, so I can't come.' The servant came
back and reported this to his master. Then the owner of the house
became angry and ordered his servant, 'Go out quickly into the
streets and alleys of the town and bring in the poor, the crippled,
the blind and the lame.' 'Sir,' the servant said, 'what you ordered has been done, but there is still room.' Then the master told his
servant, 'Go out to the roads and country lanes and make them
come in, SO THAT MY HOUSE WILL BE FULL. (Luke 14:16-23)

This parable tells that God wants not only a relationship with humans in this universe, but a relationship with billions of these creatures in His future, perfect creation. If God's purpose is to have relationships with free will beings in a future creation, then there must be a means
by which these beings can make a choice to enter or not enter into this
relationship. The means by which we make this choice is exactly the message of the Bible.Therefore. the Bible says that God allows temporary, bounded evil in order to allow free will beings to have the ability to love and to make
choices.Many things that people consider to be bad are, in fact, useful in our
spiritual growth. The Bible says that trials in our lives produce perseverance, which helps make us mature and complete. These trials also increase our faith - a "refining by fire." The Bible tells us that "all things to work together for good to those who love God." Let me give you a couple concrete examples in my own life that
illustrate these points.

1. God did not design this universe to be perfect, but as a temporary
creation where free will beings make choices about where they
want to spend eternity (in the new creation, which will be perfect). 2. The new creation will be perfect, but will not have absolute free
will for its inhabitants. We must agree in this life to give up some
of our free will in the next life. Those who are unwilling to give up
their own free will choices will not be forced to do so in the next
life. However, they will have to be separated from the new
creation, since God is unwilling to compromise His character.
3. All people will suffer at least somewhat because of bad choices
that others make. In addition, because of the temporary nature of
the universe, some bad things will happen to us due to "bad luck"
or chance. However, these things will teach us to be more sensitive
to the needs of others, and will prepare us to show God's love to
others when they suffer through similar things. God want us to learn from this life, not just have a party.

I cant believe i am reading this.

You didnt even prove anything

So you know so much about God as a fact.

You taked about the parable of the feast guests and intentionally avoided the part that say god (the feast host) throws those that did not come to his feast into eternal agony, just because he invited them to a feast and they preferred to use their time for more productive activities than drinking and eating. Na by force?

See ridiculous story o.

You must be a very "intelligent" guy to use that story to reply me.

So that is a evidence the god you know.

My dear, you are no different from those in asia that worship hundreds of gods. I laff at you as you laff at them. You all have silly stories that people shld just believe in either it makes sense or not, yet you claim that god created use to be intelligent, but he does not want us to use the intelligence to believe in him. Then how does he want an unbeliever to get saved, when it seems all you can offer is just believe, then you present heaven and hell into the whole thing. And since no one knows what happens after death, the unbeliever is afraid of dying only to find out there is hell so he quickly accepts.

Is it not so convenient that it takes dropping any question till the last day?

You better talk better talk here.

PaulGrundy are you THE REAL Paul Grundy of JWFacts.com or just a parody?

Proffdada:
it's a shame atheism is an excuse some tend to seek solace in

And if the two babies don't believe that mom exists, will she set them on fire when they are born in order to punish them?