dein77:

Exactly my approach to the tithe issue. Immediately it occurred to me Apostle Paul and the other Early Church didn't speak about Tithe, I made up my mind concerning it. Nobody can place a curse on whom Christ has been made a curse for!
Till date, it's my nature to check every single conviction of mine one a superior argument is presented before me. The era of clinging to beliefs just because they have been there for centuries is long gone.

Great to know the dedication went well. Take care of all o (madam and child(ren)).

Actually Paul did not speak much about both tithe and offering yet Paul himself brought offerings to the temple and also said that the Lord had commanded that those who preached the gospel lived of it and he called it a right so what else does one need to hear. We all know he said he had to even take wages from other churches to minister to a particular church. What is the reason and purpose of a thing should be the question?

It is never a good idea to cling to beliefs just because...so you are on the right path for searching for the truth yourself...one thing many forget to check in the Malachi 3:8 was that God was speaking about BOTH TITHES AND OFFERING...So it is strange to say you won't tithe because it comes with a curse yet you are comfortable with offering.

No one in Christ is under a curse as you said. Because Christ is the one who died for him and will teach him what to do and how to live. Jesus had himself spoken about tithe and never condemned it but instead told us the right way to do it, he said same about prayer and others. As long as anyone LACKS LOVE no amount of giving (even if he offers himself to be burnt for others) is of value..I Cor. 13 even says so. God looks at the heart to qualify the action.

Let us put things in proper perspective. Cheers.

Alwaystrue:


Great to know the dedication went well. Take care of all o (madam and child(ren)).

Actually Paul did not speak much about both tithe and offering yet Paul himself brought offerings to the temple and also said that the Lord had commanded that those who preached the gospel lived of it and he called it a right so what else does one need to hear. We all know he said he had to even take wages from other churches to minister to a particular church. What is the reason and purpose of a thing should be the question?

It is never a good idea to cling to beliefs just because...so you are on the right path for searching for the truth yourself...one thing many forget to check in the Malachi 3:8 was that God was speaking about BOTH TITHES AND OFFERING...So it is strange to say you won't tithe because it comes with a curse yet you are comfortable with offering.

No one in Christ is under a curse as you said. Because Christ is the one who died for him and will teach him what to do and how to live. Jesus had himself spoken about tithe and never condemned it but instead told us the right way to do it, he said same about prayer and others. As long as anyone LACKS LOVE no amount of giving (even if he offers himself to be burnt for others) is of value..I Cor. 13 even says so. God looks at the heart to qualify the action.

Let us put things in proper perspective. Cheers.

My dear, thanks for the dedication messages.

Actually I still bring my tithe, though I haven't done so in months. I don't intend stopping !

However, I now understand the issue too well, and in the light of further revelations, may stop. My grouse is the undue emphasis laid by many pastors on tithing and the accompanying threat of being sent a devourer should one discontinue paying the tithe.
My dear, I believe God isn't unjust or unmindful of the numerous givings I do every month. As a matter of fact, I give more than 4 times my tithe every single month.
Tithe is voluntary. And nobody should be cajoled into tithing. God only blesses voluntary giving.
Lastly, let him that tithe continue; and let him that doesn't tithe seek not to condemn the other.
Everybody should be convinced in their own mind.

dein77:

My dear, thanks for the dedication messages.
Actually I still bring my tithe, though I haven't done so in months. I don't intend stopping !
However, I now understand the issue too well, and in the light of further revelations, may stop. My grouse is the undue emphasis laid by many pastors on tithing and the accompanying threat of being sent a devourer should one discontinue paying the tithe.
My dear, I believe God isn't unjust or unmindful of the numerous givings I do every month. As a matter of fact, I give more than 4 times my tithe every single month.
Tithe is voluntary. And nobody should be cajoled into tithing. God only blesses voluntary giving.
Lastly, let him that tithe continue; and let him that doesn't tithe seek not to condemn the other.
Everybody should be convinced in their own mind.

You are welcome.

It is ok, I was not really out to convince but to put things in perpective and let anyone chose what they want to do. Everyone has the grace to chose o.

I understand many take it overboard but many take fasting, praying and attending church programmes overboard yet it doesn't stop people from doing it. It is left to our choice and discretion.

Yes, you could not have said it better really. It is voluntary just like even accepting Jesus Christ is. God checks the heart so anyone who feels he gives and yet is double-minded, acts all forced and does not let it go from his heart, should not expect anything from the Lord (James 1:7).

You know the kind of giving that moved God so much that he swore by Himself to bless Abraham, one in which we all enjoy today? When He had realeased Isaac to the Lord as a Sacrifice even before he carried it out. His action of physically doing it cemented it. That is the kind of giving God wants.

Reason why I laugh seeing people bicker over a tenth. What will they do when they have to give all.

As you said, let everyone purpose to give and be persuaded in His mind.

Thanks.

Alwaystrue:


You are welcome.

It is ok, I was not really out to convince but to put things in perpective and let anyone chose what they want to do. Everyone has the grace to chose o.

I understand many take it overboard but many take fasting, praying and attending church programmes overboard yet it doesn't stop people from doing it. It is left to our choice and discretion.

Yes, you could not have said it better really. It is voluntary just like even accepting Jesus Christ is. God checks the heart so anyone who feels he gives and yet is double-minded, acts all forced and does not let it go from his heart, should not expect anything from the Lord (James 1:7).

You know the kind of giving that moved God so much that he swore by Himself to bless Abraham, one in which we all enjoy today? When He had realeased Isaac to the Lord as a Sacrifice even before he carried it out. His action of physically doing it cemented it. That is the kind of giving God wants.

Reason why I laugh seeing people bicker over a tenth. What will they do when they have to give all.

As you said, let everyone purpose to give and be persuaded in His mind.

Thanks.

Thanks for presenting your case in a loving and godly manner.

I look forward to discussing with you some.more.

To those who want to give, let them.give freely and bountifully.

Lastly, I believe all these tithe debates aroused from the profligate and extravagant lifestyles of most of our senior men of God.

vooks:
I have shared briefly what I believe dedication means.

When borrowing OT concepts, I find it wise to aks if primitive Christians did it and if not why not or what they did.

Tithing is a LATE tradition at least 400 years after Pentecost. That is quite telling. The problem with believers is they shun history when it condemns them but embrace it when it supports their stand. Please study child dedication history

Nope, you didn't, you were just blowing hot air with no substance. Anyway, thanks for stopping by.

What is your substance?

Bidam:
Nope, you didn't, you were just blowing hot air with no substance. Anyway, thanks for stopping by.

vooks:
What is your substance?

Read the OP.

When first was child dedication practiced?

Bidam:
Read the OP.

Did you read the op?

vooks:

When first was child dedication practiced?

When was child dedication first practiced?

Bidam:
Did you read the op?

vooks:

When first was child dedication practiced?

Read the op, it was stated there that the catholics call it infant baptism.

What Catholics call it does not answer my question.
Again, when FIRST in the Church history was this practiced?

Bidam:
Read the op, it was stated there that the catholics call it infant baptism.

vooks:
What Catholics call it does not answer my question.
Again, when FIRST in the Church history was this practiced?

It does answer your question, if you have another opinion you can say it without silly repeatitions.

vooks:
What Catholics call it does not answer my question.
Again, when FIRST in the Church history was this practiced?

It does answer your question, if you have another opinion you can say it without silly repeatitions.

My brother, why are you angry ? I aksd when baby dedication was FIRST practiced and your response is Catholics called it infant baptism. Are you avoiding my question?

Bidam:
It does answer your question, if you have another opinion you can say it without silly repeatitions.

vooks:
My brother, why are you angry ? I aksd when baby dedication was FIRST practiced and your response is Catholics called it infant baptism. Are you avoiding my question?

I am not angry mr vooks. If you have a contrary opinion as per the catholics being the first to initiate child dedication by the early church pls feel free to air your views. You are not only educating me but our viewers.

Catholics being FIRST does not answer WHEN infant baptism/dedication started. Do you know WHEN this practice started? Or has it always been performed like the Lord's Table since Pentecost?

Bidam:
I am not angry mr vooks. If you have a contrary opinion as per the catholics being the first to initiate child dedication by the early church pls feel free to air your views. You are not only educating me but our viewers.

vooks:
Catholics being FIRST does not answer WHEN infant baptism/dedication started. Do you know WHEN this practice started? Or has it always been performed like the Lord's Table since Pentecost?

Aha! I get your point, i thought your previous post was reffering the catholics as "primitive Christians", so if the primitive christians are the early apostles, then it will be safe to conclude that these "primitve christians" according to you never left the temple since it wasn't destroyed till 70AD, it is safe to conclude they practised child dedication after pentecost.

Remember when Paul came to Jerusalem and told these "primitive christians" what God has done in gentile nations, they still advised him in Acts 21:21-24.

Primitive Church is the first century church. Am sorry for the wrong impression.

Please rephrase your question, it is ambiguous. Thanks

Bidam:
Aha! I get your point, i thought your previous post was reffering the catholics as "primitive Christians", so if the primitive christians are the early apostles, then it will be safe to conclude that these "primitve christians" according to you never left the temple since it wasn't destroyed till 70AD, it is safe to conclude they practised child dedication after pentecost.

Remember when Paul came to Jerusalem and told these "primitive christians" what God has done in gentile nations, they still advised him in Acts 21:21-24.

vooks:
Primitive Church is the first century church. Am sorry for the wrong impression.

Your cup of coffee, not mine.

Please rephrase your question, it is ambiguous. Thanks

Did my post ask you a question? As confused as shdemidemi.SMH!

What was your point on this post and in quoting Acts 21?

Bidam:
Your cup of coffee, not mine.

Did my post ask you a question? As confused as shdemidemi.SMH!

Bidam:
Aha! I get your point, i thought your previous post was reffering the catholics as "primitive Christians", so if the primitive christians are the early apostles, then it will be safe to conclude that these "primitve christians" according to you never left the temple since it wasn't destroyed till 70AD, it is safe to conclude they practised child dedication after pentecost.

Remember when Paul came to Jerusalem and told these "primitive christians" what God has done in gentile nations, they still advised him in Acts 21:21-24.

vooks:
What was your point on this post and in quoting Acts 21?

I am not on my lappy right now. Pls do post the scripture let's see.

Here you go bro. What point were you trying to put across?

Acts 21:21-24 English Standard Version (ESV)

21 and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs.
22 What then is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
23 Do therefore what we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
24 take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also live in observance of the law.

Bidam:
I am not on my lappy right now. Pls do post the scripture let's see.

vooks:
Here you go bro. What point were you trying to put across?

Acts 21:21-24 English Standard Version (ESV)

21 and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs.
22 What then is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
23 Do therefore what we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
24 take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also live in observance of the law.

Relate the scripture you quoted to what i said when you reffered Peter, James and other apostles as "primitive christians" and what they told Apostle Paul when he appeared in Jerusalem at the tail end of his ministry.

Bidam:
Aha! I get your point, i thought your previous post was reffering the catholics as "primitive Christians", so if the primitive christians are the early apostles, then it will be safe to conclude that these "primitve christians" according to you never left the temple since it wasn't destroyed till 70AD, it is safe to conclude they practised child dedication after pentecost.

Remember when Paul came to Jerusalem and told these "primitive christians" what God has done in gentile nations, they still advised him in Acts 21:21-24.

That's what am asking. How is this related to what you said? I don't get the relationship nor WHAT you were trying to say. Why are you always angry sir?

Bidam:
Relate the scripture you quoted to what i said when you reffered Peter, James and other apostles as "primitive christians" and what they told Apostle Paul when he appeared in Jerusalem at the tail end of his ministry.

vooks:
That's what am asking. How is this related to what you said? I don't get the relationship nor WHAT you were trying to say. Why are you always angry sir?

I wonder why you think such notions.

Anyway the scripture buttressed my point and answered your question that your early primitive church did hold onto the teachings of moses even after pentecost..child circumcision, dedication...etc.

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vooks:
Why are you always angry sir?

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shdemidemi:
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And why should i be angry at a two faced shdemidemi in an anonymous forum. Why are you trolling sir?

OK. Please note it is not the primitive church but Jews. If you recall, paul went as far as circumcising a Gentile to avoid unnecessary hostilities with his detractors. Here is Apostle James urging him to take the Nazarite vow and go to Jerusalem for the same reasons. Do you know anything about this vow? I can share.

Now my dear brother, please read the next verses confirming that this Jewishness was restricted to Jewish Christians and not Gentiles;

Acts 21:25-29 New King James Version (NKJV)

25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing,[a] except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.”
26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them.

Do you see how James is careful not to prescribe these to Gentiles since in Acts 15 when they convened in Jerusalem they had clearly indicated what part of the Torah was applicable to the Gentiles? In fact in the next verse, they arrested Paul and accused him of bringing a Gentile (Trophimus) to the temple. It was a false accusation but we learn from it that only Jews participated in these Mosaic practices since Trophimus clearly never took the vow together with paul

27 Now when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him,
28 crying out, “Men of Israel, help! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people, the law, and this place; and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place.”
29 (For they had previously[b] seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)

The point is, Torah/Mosaic practices (Feasts,Sabbath,Nazarite Vow,circumcision,tithing...) in the Primitive Church by the Jews were strictly for the Jews and as such it is wrong to draw a parallel from them if you are not a Jew

PS: Have you noticed that the Temple was off-limit for Gentiles? How could Gentile Christians do baby dedication ritual part of which entailed offering a sacrifice in the temple?

Bidam:
I wonder why you think such notions.

Anyway the scripture buttressed my point and answered your question that your early primitive church did hold onto the teachings of moses even after pentecost..child circumcision, dedication...etc.

Bidam:
I wonder why you think such notions.

Anyway the scripture buttressed my point and answered your question that your early primitive church did hold onto the teachings of moses even after pentecost..child circumcision, dedication...etc.

if the above represent ur understanding of the quoted scripture, then, you really nead to study better bro Bidam. How can you say such a thing? Dat they practiced d law, when d verses clearly expained Why Paul was adviced to pretend. Na wao!

christemmbassey:
if the above represent ur understanding of the quoted scripture, then, you really nead to study better bro Bidam. How can you say such a thing? Dat they practiced d law, when d verses clearly expained Why Paul was adviced to pretend. Na wao!

Don't be a pecksniffian and stop prevaricating issues here. It's quite silly of you to jump into the thread when it's best suit your fanciful agenda and to keep quiet when you have no reasonable thing to contribute since you are a troll and mischief maker. You brought my attention to this dead thread and here you are playing sanctimonioulsy to the gallery.

Unlike you vooks wasn't economical with the truth, he conceded the jewish christians did practice the mosaic law even after pentecost. The question he asked if you care to follow the discuss was whether primitive christians practised child dedication, initially i thought he was reffering to catholics not until later, i realise he was talking about the jews... Like peter,james and the rest.

Read that verse again without your prejudice learn. Atleast vooks aka shdemidemi was correct. The jewish christians still practiced child dedication long after Jesus had left the scene.

Who are the first century primitive christians Jews or gentiles.

vooks:
OK. Please note it is not the primitive church but Jews. If you recall, paul went as far as circumcising a Gentile to avoid unnecessary hostilities with his detractors. Here is Apostle James urging him to take the Nazarite vow and go to Jerusalem for the same reasons. Do you know anything about this vow? I can share.

Now my dear brother, please read the next verses confirming that this Jewishness was restricted to Jewish Christians and not Gentiles;

Acts 21:25-29 New King James Version (NKJV)

25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing,[a] except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.”
26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them.

Do you see how James is careful not to prescribe these to Gentiles since in Acts 15 when they convened in Jerusalem they had clearly indicated what part of the Torah was applicable to the Gentiles? In fact in the next verse, they arrested Paul and accused him of bringing a Gentile (Trophimus) to the temple. It was a false accusation but we learn from it that only Jews participated in these Mosaic practices since Trophimus clearly never took the vow together with paul

27 Now when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him,
28 crying out, “Men of Israel, help! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people, the law, and this place; and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place.”
29 (For they had previously[b] seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)

The point is, Torah/Mosaic practices (Feasts,Sabbath,Nazarite Vow,circumcision,tithing...) in the Primitive Church by the Jews were strictly for the Jews and as such it is wrong to draw a parallel from them if you are not a Jew

PS: Have you noticed that the Temple was off-limit for Gentiles? How could Gentile Christians do baby dedication ritual part of which entailed offering a sacrifice in the temple?