₦airaland Forum

lastmessenger:
Again I have not been called into the minstry as a pastor. Therefore opening a church or fellowship is out of the equation.
Please tell how I am massaging my ego. Is it a lie that the church has derailed from the message of love. Is it not in Nigeria that a man of God charged gate fee for their cross over night? Are you not the same person who uploaded a book titles synagogue of satan? How am I massaging ego by telling the truth. Bro sometimes I don't understand you.

vooks:
My broda,
What better way to solve this that beginning your own church on a clean slate free of all these 'errors'. Why be so critical of something you are equally capable of doing? Do it your way

vooks:
There is NOTHING you can point in church today that hasn't existed since Pentecost my broda. So lamenting about these is a tad tedious and unnecessary bloviating. It's like wondering why that the sun is still rising daily in 2015 yet it has always done that since Genesis. What am aksin is, what next after identifying the 'deviations'? Do you wait until the next round of deviations so you can point them out? Martin Luther pointed out the rot in the church and to day we still read him. He did more than criticize; he challenged, wrote about and set the church on fire.

As your friend, am proposing that since you have had enough of the church in Nigeria, start yours free of these very things you can't stand. Holla@ me once you are done

lastmessenger:
Again I have not been called into the minstry as a pastor.
Therefore opening a church or fellowship is out of the equation.
[size=5pt]Please tell how I am massaging my ego. Is it a lie that the church has derailed from the message of love.
Is it not in Nigeria that a man of God charged gate fee for their cross over night?
Are you not the same person who uploaded a book titles synagogue of satan?
How am I massaging ego by telling the truth. Bro sometimes I don't understand you[/size].

frosbel:
^^^
Best ignore Vooks, by their fruits you shall know them.
When you stand for the truth expect persecution from the religious crusaders.

honourhim:
What concerns me with opening a church when the exiisting ones are derailing from the standard?
I'm not interested in the corporate church where one man and his wife are regarded as tin gods whose words
and actions must not be questioned even when it runs contrary to the scripture.

I dont want baba-has-spoken gospel.
I dont want position seekers gospel.
I dont want holy nwaeje gospel.
I dont want church of politics.
I dont want money money gospel.

I want a simple gathering of those who yearn for daily personal encounter with Jesus (not via baba)
Of those who yearn for the truth.
Of those who yearn for revival and pray for it.
A gathering where we will in honour prefer one another.
Where love reigns as shown by Christ and the apostles.
Where everybody will care about everybody's good.
Where the holy spirit will operate freely as it was in the days of old.
I hate going to church and not getting revived. Its a waste of time.

vooks:
There is NOTHING you can point in church today that hasn't existed since Pentecost my broda.
So lamenting about these is a tad tedious and unnecessary bloviating.
It's like wondering why that the sun is still rising daily in 2015 yet it has always done that since Genesis.
What am aksin is, what next after identifying the 'deviations'?
Do you wait until the next round of deviations so you can point them out?
Martin Luther pointed out the rot in the church and to day we still read him.
He did more than criticize; he challenged, wrote about and set the church on fire.

As your friend, am proposing that since you have had enough of the church in Nigeria, start yours free of these very things you can't stand.
Holla@ me once you are done

frosbel:
It was painful to read the rant you just 'spat out' , but let me reply in just a few sentences.

- Go back and read the article , it is about overcoming sin by imbibing LOVE , a genuine heart felt love not a superficial feeling
- By LOVE I mean doing things with the primary goal of promoting the happiness of others and not self.
- By LOVE, I mean fulfilling the greatest 2 commandments that Jesus proclaimed and promoted
- We are to be perfect as God who is perfect, hence LOVE should reign supreme in our lives

Let me give you some examples :

1. Joseph when tempted by Potiphar's wife did not overcome for the sake of reward but because of his LOVE for God
2. When the children of Israel sinned and God's judgement was about to fall on them, Moses asked that his name be blotted out of the book of live for LOVE.
3. When Jesus surrendered his privileges and status, it was for LOVE, in fact the joy he was looking forward to was the REDEMPTION of Mankind.
4. Stephen died because of his LOVE for his people and his GOD.

If you BabaGnoni refuse to sleep with your neighbours wife because of a crown in heaven not because you love your neighbour, if you refuse to embezzle money not because of your love for the people it will impact but for a crown of life, if you refuse to kill not because of love ( hate may still be in your heart ) but because of a crown of live, THEN YOU MUST BE THE BIGGEST HYPOCRITE since 6000 BC and most miseable of fellows.

Here is Paul's advice for you ;

"And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing. 4Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant.." - 1 Corinthians 13:3-4

frosbel:
The only difference between me and you for now is the Virgin Birth.

We both agree on :

- Tithe
- Trinity
- Hell
- Possibly others like church , rapture etc.

We disagree on the Virgin Birth , We are still learning.

If these things which were taught to us were found to be false then what are the chances that the other things taught to us by the same institutional Christianity are true ?

frosbel:
What happened to doing what is right for the sake of doing what is right
and for the love of God and our neighbour, without expecting any reward whatsoever ?

BabaGnoni:
vooks quit the tongue in cheek
This is not a thread for poking fun

vooks you would agree it is not a matter of starting "churches"
vooks you would agree that helping with breaking the yokes and assisting with taking down burdens laid up by man on to man (e.g. tithes, firstfruits, staged healings etcetera) did not require starting "churches"

You say "There is NOTHING you can point in church today that hasn't existed since Pentecost"
if so, why then are some of us still plagued by Hosea 4:6 then?

Who has bewitched us, that we should not obey the truth?

If we are still plagued by Hosea 4:6, then what's next and more the reason, is we need to continually identify and repeatingly point out the 'deviations', the next 'deviations' and the next round of deviations until seventy times seven times

vooks dont propose setting up a "church" rather give moral support and blessing

vooks:
BabaGnoni, a man I hav maximum respect for,

When a prophet was sent to decree judgement on David the King following his adultery with Bathsheba, he was given a parable and he reacted with outrage demanding that the offender be killed or something. You can imagine the whirlwind of emotions and mental anguish when he was told that he is that man. Am sure David would have been the last to stone the woman caught in adultery

There are many lessons from this passage but for now,lets focus on the tendency for us to be judgemental and critical. This is usually directed at people or circumstance that we are not part of. As long as it is 'others' and not 'I',it is game

Tozer once said, 'a Pharisee is hard on others and easy on himself while a spiritual man is hard on himself and easy on others'.

The bittermost critics of the church are those who have never done any ministry. I used to be critical of missionaries until I went to the bush for two weeks,came back with malaria,sunburns and scorpion bites. It was humbling.

Regardless of what model you propose, as long as it is ran by mortal and fallible men, it will always fall short. With this in mind, I always try to temper my bile with realism and respect for those who are actually trying to do something....more on this later

BabaGnoni:
I had previously told you that you are a Johnny-come-lately on all these false positives and red herrings
As you read on https://www.nairaland.com/2055387/frosbel-now-atheist/17#29574178, the testimony of TV01 is proof, that others are one page or pages ahead of you in the "manual"


You once said the quote shown above concerning my person, so it shows I have walked the path you're on
I have swum in the deep waters you are currently wind- surfing in
This is why I always repeatedly say, you cant teach grandma how to suck eggs
- "Moti wẹ okun, mo ti wẹ ọsa" literaly means "I've swam the Atlantic Ocean, I swam the Lagoon"


I guess as usual, you conveniently forgot you wrote the above bolded which prompted the response you got, which you now want to turn on its head

frosbel, the desire to do the will of God has nothing to do with accepting a recognition for achieving or doing an act
Expecting to accept the recognition does not devalue act or diminish the desire to do the will of God

You must have a dim view of God.
- God says there a reward and you are going pear-shaped with it
Who is right? God or frosbel?

A lot of these things are wisdom decisions, wisdom and understanding things (i.e. Proverbs 4:7)
Ask Joseph how it went down with Potiphar's wife
- it was the fear of God (i.e. Proverbs 9:10, Genesis 42:18 and Genesis 39:9) that stopped or prevented the illicit liaison

Circling back, I am re-echoing TV01, if you are truly seeking you'll find your way back - if you have faith, He'll lead you. I can but testify.

[quote author=vooks post=29656371]BabaGnoni, a man I hav maximum respect for,

Tozer once said, 'a Pharisee is hard on others and easy on himself while a spiritual man is hard on himself and easy on others'.

The bittermost critics of the church are those who have never done any ministry. I used to be critical of missionaries until I went to the bush for two weeks,came back with malaria,sunburns and scorpion bites. It was humbling.

frosbel:
No time for circular , work don start oo

Keep up with the rants though but go back and read my opening statement.

Summary : Avoiding SIN ( 10 commandments etc ) for LOVE is the Gospel, avoiding SIN purely for reward is Christian Hedonism and the epitome of selfishness.

There are 3 types of people in this world, those who are bad, those are good for the sake of reward and those who are inherently good, which one are you ??

Chow !

BabaGnoni:
Rant?
And now Chow !
Chow!? Chow!?? Chow!?? LOL LOL LOL ROTBL

frosbel:

BabaGnoni:
You havent finished scattering English & the bible, it's Italian that's next

frosbel:
There are 3 types of people in this world,
those who are bad, those are good for the sake of reward and those who are inherently good, which one are you ??

I hope your reply will not be 'BabaGnoni's primary aim is reward NOT Love'.

BabaGnoni:
None of the above. That postulation is frosbel's and not scripture
The bible says there are two set of people:
Sinners or Saints (i.e. Righteous)

frosbel:
Is someone who overcomes sin for REWARD and not LOVE a Sinner or a Saint ?

vooks:
BabaGnoni, a man I hav maximum respect for,

When a prophet was sent to decree judgement on David the King following his adultery with Bathsheba, he was given a parable and he reacted with outrage demanding that the offender be killed or something. You can imagine the whirlwind of emotions and mental anguish when he was told that he is that man. Am sure David would have been the last to stone the woman caught in adultery

There are many lessons from this passage but for now, lets focus on the tendency for us to be judgemental and critical.
This is usually directed at people or circumstance that we are not part of.
As long as it is 'others' and not 'I', it is game

vooks:
Tozer once said,
'a Pharisee is hard on others and easy on himself while a spiritual man is hard on himself and easy on others'.

The bittermost critics of the church are those who have never done any ministry.
I used to be critical of missionaries until I went to the bush for two weeks,came back with malaria,sunburns and scorpion bites. It was humbling.

Regardless of what model you propose, as long as it is ran by mortal and fallible men, it will always fall short.
With this in mind, I always try to temper my bile with realism and respect for those who are actually trying to do something....
more on this later

shdemidemi:
I think there is a place for calling preachers to order in love and there is also a place for joining in the soul winning missions.

As we know, there are two seeds going out from the church. A real seed and a lookalike seed from the devil.
What exactly is the point or what good is it if we promote those who are planting the lookalike seed regardless of how noble they come across?

Bidam:
I love this especially the Tozer quote.
I laffed when someone mentioned he wasn't called to be a pastor. So the mandate to preach the gospel falls in the lap of only pastors abi?
Was Paul not actively involve in his own "pharisee gospel" by persecuting the church when God arrested him?
Must Jesus appear to you literally before you know you are called?
In Africa where internet is a luxury "the target audience" is small compared to the west.
It is better for frosbel and his ilks to carry these their modern gospel to as far as sambisa forest, may be they could save our chibok gals.
Let us give honour to missionaries, pastors and believers who are sacrificing their lives daily on the altars of boko haram in Northern Nigeria.

Persecution is very rife here in the North where i stay, you won't see frosbel giving at least a passmark to missionaries in the North..
All he and others do is hide behind screens and attack the church without lifting a finger....
Destructive Criticism never solves any problem.

BabaGnoni:
Dont get it twisted
One overcomes sin for salvation, reward comes as a recognition of doing or overcoming certain things

frosbel:
I wonder what love you showed to your unfortunate listeners....


Note : Criticism is not on an individual level but against a corrupt, dead, pagan, mythical, oppressive, exploiting and godless systems.

frosbel:
Overcome sin for salvation and not for LOVE ??
Are you not getting things all mixed up,

frosbel:
...is Salvation not the end of LOVE
or is LOVE the beginning of Salvation ?

vooks:
Quit kidding yourself; the system is people and people is the system. You are assaulting men who are doing what makes you pee in your pants because you are a congenial coward, a serial nitpicker who spends more of his time whining and little to nothing doing ANYTHING.

Get off your lazy bum, get a sanitized Bible free of heresies,lies,deception,fraud,ignorance,paganism and gather your troops for the battle.

You are the least qualified to berate the church and the only reason Jesus will let you get away with it is your IQ

BabaGnoni:
No, not all, I am not getting things all mixed up
Yes, Overcome sin for salvation

For so greatly did God love the world that He gave His only Son,
that every one who trusts in Him may not perish
but may have the Life of Ages
- John 3:16 Weymouth New Testament

This is real love--
not that we loved God, but that he loved us
and sent his Son as a sacrifice to take away our sins.
- 1 John 4:10 NLT

We have known and believed that God loves us.
God is love.
Those who live in God's love live in God, and God lives in them.
- 1 John 4:16 GOD'S WORD® Translation

We love him, because he first loved us.
- 1 John 4:19 King James Bible

frosbel:
Depends on which system you are referring to, i.e the system of a DEAD
Cult parading as Christianity or a system of LOVE after the will of God.

I think that most people would agree with me that the system which predominates in Nigeria especially is the system of a DEAD Cult , hence the endless scandals, dark exposures , oppression and exploitation of unsuspecting and mostly ignorant sheople.

A system with over 40,000 denominations and even a higher number of doctrinal positions cannot be said to come from ONE SOURCE,
it is a confused conglomeration built and maintained by self-appointed egomaniacs with their willing or unwilling minions who do their bidding and entrap more innocent people into this dead and dangerous system.

This is the system you have come to represent and which I REJECT.

Our troops run into the tens of thousands and WE are creating dents all over your mythical system of fraud, very soon these dents will become holes and then lead to a total collapse.

Our Objective : To free to sheep to worship their God in spirit and truth , not according to the whims and caprices of MEN !

Anyone who keeps hammering on about IQ is either suffering from inferiority complex or does not have an IQ to begin with.

BabaGnoni:
- EXCERPT -

https://s29.postimg.org/4ezs7i8qf/God_Guessers_c.jpg,
God is denomination agnostic,
furthermore that Ignatius' "ekklesia katholicos" phrase was hijacked for political and personal gains to mean something else.
- note even Ignatius didn't use "church" but rather assembly to imply a universal vertical relationship/fellowship with God
- the "ekklesia katholicos" phrase was first used and found in Chapter 8 of Ignatius' Epistle to the Smyrnaeans

The "ancestry and lineage of the modern day Christian" as we presently know it, is public knowledge

1) Jesus never founded a church.
What is 100% certain, is, He said He will build "ekklesia" (i.e. Matthew 16:18) and not "church"
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, a small rock
and upon the large rock I will build my congregation {Gr. ekklesia – called out ones},
and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against her."
- Matthew 16:18 Jubilee Bible 2000
2) The word "Church", in letter and/or substance, clearly metamorphosed from "ekklesia"
- Someone assisted and aided RCC get the prominence status it claims
- Another someone had strong vested interest and a lot to gain in changing the meaning of "ekklesia" from congregation to "church"
- Someone with accomplice(s) made the transition(s) from "ekklesia" (i.e. called out to assemble) to "church"

https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/19#25801245

- /EXCERPT -

PS: "ekklesia katholicos" means Universal Church or Cathoilic Church

frosbel:
Where is LOVE in this equation ?

frosbel:
Yes and good, God has given us the example of LOVE, i.e selfless giving even to one's enemies, should this not also be our pattern of faith ??

vooks:
My broda,
What better way to solve this that beginning your own church on a clean slate free of all these 'errors'. Why be so critical of something you are equally capable of doing? Do it your way

frosbel:
Depends on which system you are referring to, i.e the system of a DEAD Cult parading as Christianity or a system of LOVE after the will of God.

I think that most people would agree with me that the system which predominates in Nigeria especially is the system of a DEAD Cult , hence the endless scandals, dark exposures , oppression and exploitation of unsuspecting and mostly ignorant sheople.

A system with over 40,000 denominations and even a higher number of doctrinal positions cannot be said to come from ONE SOURCE , it is a confused conglomeration built and maintained by self-appointed egomaniacs with their willing or unwilling minions who do their bidding and entrap more innocent people into this dead and dangerous system.

This is the system you have come to represent and which I REJECT.



Our troops run into the tens of thousands and WE are creating dents all over your mythical system of fraud, very soon these dents will become holes and then lead to a total collapse.

Our Objective : To free to sheep to worship their God in spirit and truth , not according to the whims and caprices of MEN !



Anyone who keeps hammering on about IQ is either suffering from inferiority complex or does not have an IQ to begin with.