₦airaland Forum

DieeDiee:
Developed countries are built on the back, sweat and tears of 3rd world countries. God, if He exists, still played a role you cannot run away from that no matter how much you try. It spins but it always lands back at God. I cannot speak for Nigeria but in my country as in most previously colonised countries what mostly weakened those nations were supernatural and had nothing to do with their brains. Drought, famine and disease brought by whites those are not man-made or man controlled but creations of God. White people also had superior military power. Prior to white people landing in Africa, Africans had no need for superior military power having traded and interacted with other nations for centuries without threat so you cannot blame them and say they should have been prepared. They had no reason to need superior military power.

The king and his kingdom are an exact reflection of God, the world, the Lucifer excuse and what is happening in the world.

When the whites colonised us things were far better than it is now and since they left us we ve been groping in the dark and trying to come out of it.
Its a matter of time and we ll be there.

Again If you followed my writings well here you ll notice that I never exempted God entirely from the picture of the world so the issue of me trying to run away from it is not there at all.

The big picture I talked about remains a clear difference, amongst others, between your story of the king and God's package for us as I said before. And I said that without the big picture, the king is quite unfair. (same would ve been applicable in God's case too but for the big picture).

honourhim:
When the whites colonised us things were far better than it is now and since they left us we ve been groping in the dark and trying to come out of it.
Its a matter of time and we ll be there.

Again If you followed my writings well here you ll notice that I never exempted God entirely from the picture of the world so the issue of me trying to run away from it is not there at all.

The big picture I talked about remains a clear difference, amongst others, between your story of the king and God's package for us as I said before. And I said that without the big picture, the king is quite unfair. (same would ve been applicable in God's case too but for the big picture).

First paragraph - that is debatable and needs to be put into context. Oppression has never been better than freedom. Again, white people need to take responsibility. Africa is the way it is because white people broke the African people's minds and spirits. A broken spirit is tainted and darkness enters the fractures but that is another subject all together.

I hear what you are saying. What I am saying and what I have asked you is why does God need 50 billion years to execute this so-called plan? The world has been coming to an end since the beginning of time. How many humans does God need to suffer before He executes this plan. What I am saying to you is that if He exists it is sadistic and cruel of Him to sit back and watch His "beloved" creations suffer when He can do something about it, for example, either execute this grand plan or destroy Lucifer much like the king in my example was cruel to let his subjects suffer yet still expect their loyalty and praise when he could have easily ended their misery by either firing the deputy or just moving his kingdom to the other land.

DieeDiee:
I hear what you are saying. What I am saying and what I have asked you is why does God need 50 billion years to execute this so-called plan? The world has been coming to an end since the beginning of time. How many humans does God need to suffer before He executes this plan. What I am saying to you is that if He exists it is sadistic and cruel of Him to sit back and watch His "beloved" creations suffer when He can do something about it, for example, either execute this grand plan or destroy Lucifer much like the king in my example was cruel to let his subjects suffer yet still expect their loyalty and praise when he could have easily ended their misery by either firing the deputy or just moving his kingdom to the other land.

50 billion years?

honourhim:
50 billion years?

Why are you avoiding to answer? (he he he...) Yes 50 billion, He is taking forever in fact maybe it's been a 100 billion years. Exact number does not matter the 50 billion illustrates it has been too many years even you can't deny that

DieeDiee:
Why are you avoiding to answer? (he he he...) Yes 50 billion, He is taking forever in fact maybe it's been a 100 billion years. Exact number does not matter the 50 billion illustrates it has been too many years even you can't deny that

I don't know about the 50 billlion years you quoted. but i understand what you mean.

God has his plans as a creator and he will run things the way he wants it. Non of us can stampede him into closing up this world before his appointed time. We can only be angry, deny his existence, abuse him, argue etc. but it doesn't change anything where God is.

Much as i will want him to close up this world, my wish cannot do it either. He will do it when he wants. My own duty is to be on the good side of God's plan by being fit for heaven at all times and i pray you do same my dear. Lets face life as we have seen it and be on the good side so as to enjoy eternity in heaven. The choice is yours and mine.

truthman2012:
God is beyond human experiments. He is invisible as even you cannot see your own spirit

What in your knowledge caused the universe as nothing can cause something.

How can you talk of scientific proof when the thing you seek to prove is beyond human experiments?


I dont know what "caused" the Universe.

jayriginal:
How can you talk of scientific proof when the thing you seek to prove is beyond human experiments?

I dont know what "caused" the Universe.

The Bible says it was God that caused the Universe and since you have no alternative cause, it is only reasonable you accept it was God.

truthman2012:
The Bible says it was God that caused the Universe and since you have no alternative cause, it is only reasonable you accept it was God.

I should accept it simply because the bible said so?

jayriginal:
I should accept it simply because the bible said so?

Yes, as no other Being claims the cause.

truthman2012:
Yes, as no other Being claims the cause.

Really?

You really think there is no other religion that claims their "being" is the cause?

And even if there is no other religion claiming the cause, is it enough to believe simply because one claims so?

http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/CS/CSIndex.html

The Elohim

In the beginning the Elohim made the sky and the earth, but the earth was shapeless and everything was dark. The Elohim said "Let there be light," and there was the light that made day different from night. And that was the first day.

The Elohim said, "Let there be a dome to separate the heavens from the waters below," and there were the heavens. And that was the second day.

The Elohim said, "Let the waters of the earth gather so that there are seas and there is dry land," and so it was. The Elohim said, "Let there be vegetation on the land, with plants to yield seeds and fruits," and so it was. And that was the third day.

The Elohim said, "Let there be light in the heavens, and let them change with the seasons," and so there were stars. Then the Elohim made a sun and a moon to rule over the day and to rule over the night. And that was the fourth day.

The Elohim said, "Let there be creatures in the waters, and let there be birds in the skies," and so there were sea monsters and sea creatures and birds. The Elohim blessed them, saying "Be fruitful and multiply". And that was the fifth day.

The Elohim said, "Let the earth have animals of various kinds", and so it was. Then the Elohim said, "Let us make humans after our own likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, over the cattle and creeping things of the land, and over all the earth." The Elohim said to these humans, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it, ruling over the fish and the birds and the animals of the land. We have given you every plant and tree yielding seed. To every beast and bird of the Earth we have given every green plant for food." And that was the sixth day.

And on the seventh day the making of the heavens and earth was finished, and the Elohim rested.

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The Four Creations

The world at first was endless space in which existed only the Creator, Taiowa. This world had no time, no shape, and no life, except in the mind of the Creator. Eventually the infinite creator created the finite in Sotuknang, whom he called his nephew and whom he created as his agent to establish nine universes. Sotuknang gathered together matter from the endless space to make the nine solid worlds. Then the Creator instructed him to gather together the waters from the endless space and place them on these worlds to make land and sea. When Sotuknang had done that, the Creator instructed him to gather together air to make winds and breezes on these worlds.

The fourth act of creation with which the Creator charged Sotuknang was the creation of life. Sotuknang went to the world that was to first host life and there he created Spider Woman, and he gave her the power to create life. First Spider Woman took some earth and mixed it with saliva to make two beings. Over them she sang the Creation Song, and they came to life. She instructed one of them, Poqanghoya, to go across the earth and solidify it. She instructed the other, Palongawhoya, to send out sound to resonate through the earth, so that the earth vibrated with the energy of the Creator. Poqanghoya and Palongawhoya were despatched to the poles of the earth to keep it rotating.

Then Spider Woman made all the plants, the flowers, the bushes, and the trees. Likewise she made the birds and animals, again using earth and singing the Creation Song. When all this was done, she made human beings, using yellow, red, white, and black earth mixed with her saliva. Singing the Creation Song, she made four men, and then in her own form she made four women. At first they had a soft spot in their foreheads, and although it solidified, it left a space through which they could hear the voice of Sotuknang and their Creator. Because these people could not speak, Spider Woman called on Sotuknang, who gave them four languages. His only instructions were for them to respect their Creator and to live in harmony with him.

These people spread across the earth and multiplied. Despite their four languages, in those days they could understand each other's thoughts anyway, and for many years they and the animals lived together as one. Eventually, however, they began to divide, both the people from the animals and the people from each other, as they focused on their differences rather than their similarities. As division and suspicion became more widespread, only a few people from each of the four groups still remembered their Creator. Sotuknang appeared before these few and told them that he and the Creator would have to destroy this world, and that these few who remembered the Creator must travel across the land, following a cloud and a star, to find refuge. These people began their treks from the places where they lived, and when they finally converged Sotuknang appeared again. He opened a huge ant mound and told these people to go down in it to live with the ants while he destroyed the world with fire, and he told them to learn from the ants while they were there. The people went down and lived with the ants, who had storerooms of food that they had gathered in the summer, as well as chambers in which the people could live. This went on for quite a while, because after Sotuknang cleansed the world with fire it took a long time for the world to cool off. As the ants' food ran low, the people refused the food, but the ants kept feeding them and only tightened their own belts, which is why ants have such tiny waists today.

Finally Sotuknang was done making the second world, which was not quite as beautiful as the first. Again he admonished the people to remember their Creator as they and the ants that had hosted them spread across the earth. The people multiplied rapidly and soon covered the entire earth. They did not live with the animals, however, because the animals in this second world were wild and unfriendly. Instead the people lived in villages and built roads between these, so that trade sprang up. They stored goods and traded those for goods from elsewhere, and soon they were trading for things they did not need. As their desire to have more and more grew, they began to forget their Creator, and soon wars over resources and trade were breaking out between villages. Finally Sotuknang appeared before the few people who still remembered the Creator, and again he sent them to live with the ants while he destroyed this corrupt world. This time he ordered Poqanghoya and Palongawhoya to abandon their posts at the poles, and soon the world spun out of control and rolled over. Mountains slid and fell, and lakes and rivers splashed across the land as the earth tumbled, and finally the earth froze over into nothing but ice.

This went on for years, and again the people lived with the ants. Finally Sotuknang sent Poqanghoya and Palongawhoya back to the poles to resume the normal rotation of the earth, and soon the ice melted and life returned. Sotuknang called the people up from their refuge, and he introduced them to the third world that he had made. Again he admonished the people to remember their Creator as they spread across the land. As they did so, they multiplied quickly, even more quickly than before, and soon they were living in large cities and developing into separate nations. With so many people and so many nations, soon there was war, and some of the nations made huge shields on which they could fly, and from these flying shields they attacked other cities. When Sotuknang saw all this war and destruction, he resolved to destroy this world quickly before it corrupted the few people who still remembered the Creator. He called on Spider Woman to gather those few and, along the shore, she placed each person with a little food in the hollow stem of a reed. When she had done this, Sotuknang let loose a flood that destroyed the warring cities and the world on which they lived.

Once the rocking of the waves ceased, Spider Woman unsealed the reeds so the people could see. They floated on the water for many days, looking for land, until finally they drifted to an island. On the island they built little reed boats and set sail again to the east. After drifting many days, they came to a larger island, and after many more days to an even larger island. They hoped that this would be the fourth world that Sótuknang had made for them, but Spider Woman assured them that they still had a long and hard journey ahead. They walked across this island and built rafts on the far side, and set sail to the east again. They came to a fourth and still larger island, but again they had to cross it on foot and then build more rafts to continue east. From this island, Spider Woman sent them on alone, and after many days they encountered a vast land. Its shores were so high that they could not find a place to land, and only by opening the doors in their heads did they know where to go to land.

When they finally got ashore, Sotuknang was there waiting for them. As they watched to the west, he made the islands that they had used like stepping stones disappear into the sea. He welcomed them to the fourth world, but he warned them that it was not as beautiful as the previous ones, and that life here would be harder, with heat and cold, and tall mountains and deep valleys. He sent them on their way to migrate across the wild new land in search of the homes for their respective clans. The clans were to migrate across the land to learn its ways, although some grew weak and stopped in the warm climates or rich lands along the way. The Hopi trekked and far and wide, and went through the cold and icy country to the north before finally settling in the arid lands between the Colorado River and Rio Grande River. They chose that place so that the hardship of their life would always remind them of their dependence on, and link to, their Creator.

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Creation By and From the Self

In the beginning there was absolutely nothing, and what existed was covered by death and hunger. He thought, "Let me have a self", and he created the mind. As he moved about in worship, water was generated. Froth formed on the water, and the froth eventually solidifed to become earth. He rested on the earth, and from his luminence came fire. After resting, he divided himself in three parts, and one is fire, one is the sun, and one is the air.

Thus in the beginning the world was only his self, his being or essence, which then took the shape of a person. At first he was afraid, but realizing that he was alone and had nothing of which to be afraid, his fear ceased. However, he had no happiness because he was alone, and he longed for another. He grew as large as two persons embracing, and he caused his self to split into two matching parts, like two halves of a split pea, and from them arose husband and wife.

They mated, and from their union arose the human beings of the earth. The female reflected on having mated with someone of whom she was once a part, and she resolved that she should hide so that it would not happen again. She changed to a cow to disguise herself, but he changed to a bull and mated with her, and from their union cows arose. She changed to the form of a mare, but he changed to that of a stallion and mated with her, and from that union came horses. She changed to the form of a donkey, but he did likewise, and from them arose the single-hoofed animals. She became a ewe, but he became a ram, and from their union came the sheep and goats. It continued thus, with her changing form to elude him but he finding her and mating with her, until they had created all the animals that live in pairs, from humans and horses to ants.

After all this work, he reflected that he was indeed Creation personified, for he had created all this. Rubbing back and forth, he made Fire, the god of fire, from his hands, and from his semen he made Soma, the god of the moon. This was his highest creation because, although mortal himself, he had created immortal gods

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The Golden Chain

Long ago, well before there were any people, all life existed in the sky. Olorun lived in the sky, and with Olorun were many orishas. There were both male and female orishas, but Olorun transcended male and female and was the all-powerful supreme being. Olorun and the orishas lived around a young baobab tree. Around the baobab tree the orishas found everything they needed for their lives, and in fact they wore beautiful clothes and gold jewelry. Olorun told them that all the vast sky was theirs to explore. All the orishas save one, however, were content to stay near the baobab tree.

Obatala was the curious orisha who wasn't content to live blissfully by the baobab tree. Like all orishas, he had certain powers, and he wanted to put them to use. As he pondered what to do, he looked far down through the mists below the sky. As he looked and looked, he began to realize that there was a vast empty ocean below the mist. Obatala went to Olorun and asked Olorun to let him make something solid in the waters below. That way there could be beings that Obatala and the orishas could help with their powers.

Touched by Obatala's desire to do something constructive, Olorun agreed to send Obatala to the watery world below. Obatala then asked Orunmila, the orisha who knows the future, what he should do to prepare for his mission. Orunmila brought out a sacred tray and sprinkled the powder of baobab roots on it. He tossed sixteen palm kernels onto the tray and studied the marks and tracks they made on the powder. He did this eight times, each time carefully observing the patterns. Finally he told Obatala to prepare a chain of gold, and to gather sand, palm nuts, and maize. He also told Obatala to get the sacred egg carrying the personalities of all the orishas.

Obatala went to his fellow orishas to ask for their gold, and they all gave him all the gold they had. He took this to the goldsmith, who melted all the jewelry to make the links of the golden chain. When Obatala realized that the goldsmith had made all the gold into links, he had the goldsmith melt a few of them back down to make a hook for the end of the chain.

Meanwhile, as Orunmila had told him, Obatala gathered all the sand in the sky and put it in an empty snail shell, and in with it he added a little baobab powder. He put that in his pack, along with palm nuts, maize, and other seeds that he found around the baobab tree. He wrapped the egg in his shirt, close to his chest so that it would be warm during his journey.

Obatala hooked the chain into the sky, and he began to climb down the chain. For seven days he went down and down, until finally he reached the end of the chain. He hung at its end, not sure what to do, and he looked and listened for any clue. Finally he heard Orunmila, the seer, calling to him to use the sand. He took the shell from his pack and poured out the sand into the water below. The sand hit the water, and to his surprise it spread and solidified to make a vast land. Still unsure what to do, Obatala hung from the end of the chain until his heart pounded so much that the egg cracked. From it flew Sankofa, the bird bearing the sprits of all the orishas. Like a storm, they blew the sand to make dunes and hills and lowlands, giving it character just as the orishas themselves have character.

Finally Obatala let go of the chain and dropped to this new land, which he called "Ife", the place that divides the waters. Soon he began to explore this land, and as he did so he scattered the seeds from his pack, and as he walked the seeds began to grow behind him, so that the land turned green in his wake.

After walking a long time, Obatala grew thirsty and stopped at a small pond. As he bent over the water, he saw his reflection and was pleased. He took some clay from the edge of the pond and began to mold it into the shape he had seen in the reflection. He finished that one and began another, and before long he had made many of these bodies from the dark earth at the pond's side. By then he was even thirstier than before, and he took juice from the newly-grown palm trees and it fermented into palm wine. He drank this, and drank some more, and soon he was intoxicated. He returned to his work of making more forms from the edge of the pond, but now he wasn't careful and made some without eyes or some with misshapen limbs. He thought they all were beautiful, although later he realized that he had erred in drinking the wine and vowed to not do so again.

Before long, Olorun dispatched Chameleon down the golden chain to check on Obatala's progress. Chameleon reported Obatala's disappointment at making figures that had form but no life. Gathering gasses from the space beyond the sky, Olorun sparked the gasses into an explosion that he shaped into a fireball. He sent that fireball to Ife, where it dried the lands that were still wet and began to bake the clay figures that Obatala had made. The fireball even set the earth to spinning, as it still does today. Olorun then blew his breath across Ife, and Obatala's figures slowly came to life as the first people of Ife.

Just a small sampling. I hope the point is clear.

Guys let's leave the religious. If people want to believe in talking snakes, beings that fly and have wings, apples that give sight (though it is puzzling how people who can't see could distinguish which tree out of the garden the snake was talking about), bread and fish that multiplies and fire that talks so be it. It gives them comfort in this crazy, ugly world.

jayriginal:
Really?

You really think there is no other religion that claims their "being" is the cause?

And even if there is no other religion claiming the cause, is it enough to believe simply because one claims so?



Just a small sampling. I hope the point is clear.

Who are the authors of those write-ups? They are not universally accepted. Who knows olorun, obatala etc in the West, Asia or China etc. When did Yoruba race come to existence? When did yorubas' olorun create the Israelites who existed before them? They make false claims.

The bible is not the testimony of one person, and it is universally accepted. Prophets from different generations testified of the same God.

DieeDiee:
Guys let's leave the religious. If people want to believe in talking snakes, beings that fly and have wings, apples that give sight (though it is puzzling how people who can't see could distinguish which tree out of the garden the snake was talking about), bread and fish that multiplies and fire that talks so be it. It gives them comfort in this crazy, ugly world.

If you wouldn't talk about religion, then you don't talk on this thread because the topic is about religion.

truthman2012:
Who are the authors of those write-ups? They are not universally accepted. Who knows olorun, obatala etc in the West, Asia or China etc. When did Yoruba race come to existence? When did yorubas' olorun create the Israelites who existed before them? They make false claims.

The bible is not the testimony of one person, and it is universally accepted. Prophets from different generations testified of the same God.

At what time did the bible become universally accepted according to you and what exactly makes it universally accepted?

So Yoruba's are lying and foreigners are telling the truth?

What is the status of your God in Asia?

truthman2012:
If you wouldn't talk about religion, then you don't talk on this thread because the topic is about religion.

My comment was not meant for you and the likes of you. You guys can go on swapping notes about flying half-man-half-lions, talking snakes with legs, self-obsessed hermaphrodite deities etc. all you like no one is stopping you. All I was saying to the sensibles was that they must leave you to your fairy tales it is a useless exercise talking sense to a staunch religious. Do yourself one favour, just read a few of the Egyptian, Roman and Greek myths that you christians call heathen and were there before the "birth" of christ. See if there aren't any similarities to your holy bible. I'll give you one to start you off: Horus born of the virgin Isis

jayriginal:
At what time did the bible become universally accepted according to you and what exactly makes it universally accepted?

So Yoruba's are lying and foreigners are telling the truth?

What is the status of your God in Asia?

They recognize the bible in Africa, Europe, Australia, America, Asia, and other continents. In China alone we have about 120 million Christians, that is about the entire population of Nigeria. How more universal can it be?

truthman2012:
They recognize the bible in Africa, Europe, Australia, America, Asia, and other continents. In China alone we have about 120 million Christians, that is about the entire population of Nigeria. How more universal can it be?

Wow China huh?

Out of a population of over 1.35 billion, 120 million strikes you as significant enough to be called universal?

With the same logic have you cared to find out how many places recognize the Quran?

In any case, you have dragged me too far into this. I can tell the way your mind is working. I am satisfied with refuting your notion of scientific proof for a thing you claim is beyond human experiments.

That will be all.

jayriginal:
Wow China huh?

Out of a population of over 1.35 billion, 120 million strikes you as significant enough to be called universal?

With the same logic have you cared to find out how many places recognize the Quran?

In any case, you have dragged me too far into this. I can tell the way your mind is working. I am satisfied with refuting your notion of scientific proof for a thing you claim is beyond human experiments.

That will be all.

You have refuted nothing.

truthman2012:
Advanced Learners' Dictionary defines vacuum as space in container from which the air has been pumped out. Space or container are something, not nothing.

When you say that the Dictionary defines, in reality, who defines?. Are you saying that your "god" have to agree with the definitions in the Advanced Learners Dictionary?. Are you saying that your "god" created the Advanced Learners Dictionary?. Present day authorities, theologians, philosophers, and so-called linguistics of European birth use several of their own languages to control your mind and entrap you in their definitions. Remember that their first holy book is the Bible or the Koran, and their second and most holy book is their dictionary; with these tools, they rule. They can decide what is true and what is false, and they can make a learnt man, look like a fool, or a liar, because they are unquestionable. The format used is author, authentic, authority. With those three principles, everybody retreats to them to check themselves and their own culture. Whenever you look up the root of a word, and where it originated, you are always led to Greek, French, Old English, Latin, and Arabic. Most of your definitions are coming from these languages. They have you controlled by these languages to keep your mind trapped and make themselves the authorities, the authors, and thus appear to be authentic.

Horus:
When you say that the Dictionary defines, in reality, who defines?. Are you saying that your "god" have to agree with the definitions in the Advanced Learners Dictionary?. Are you saying that your "god" created the Advanced Learners Dictionary?. Present day authorities, theologians, philosophers, and so-called linguistics of European birth use several of their own languages to control your mind and entrap you in their definitions. Remember that their first holy book is the Bible or the Koran, and their second and most holy book is their dictionary; with these tools, they rule. They can decide what is true and what is false, and they can make a learnt man, look like a fool, or a liar, because they are unquestionable. The format used is author, authentic, authority. With those three principles, everybody retreats to them to check themselves and their own culture. Whenever you look up the root of a word, and where it originated, you are always led to Greek, French, Old English, Latin, and Arabic. Most of your definitions are coming from these languages. They have you controlled by these languages to keep your mind trapped and make themselves the authorities, the authors, and thus appear to be authentic.

Where are the languages used in science and technology, which you are enjoying coming from?

truthman2012:
Where are the languages used in science and technology, which you are enjoying coming from?

I can see that you avoid answering the questions so instead you ask a question when you have already an answer in my previous post.
I tell you again that the languages used in science and technology are not coming from your "god", that was my point. So dont allow
so-called linguistics of European birth to control your mind and entrap you in their definitions

Horus:
I can see that you avoid answering the questions so instead you ask a question when you have already an answer in my previous post.
I tell you again that the languages used in science and technology are not coming from your "god", that was my point. So dont allow
so-called linguistics of European birth to control your mind and entrap you in their definitions

From the begining, man has one source with same language and colour. Why are there white and black people now and who was responsible for their difference in colour and language?

If you can answer these, your questions will no more be necessary.

truthman2012:
From the begining, man has one source with same language and colour. Why are there white and black people now and who was responsible for their difference in colour and language?

If you can answer these, your questions will no more be necessary.

Are you saying that your "god" created the Advanced Learners Dictionary?, yes or no?

davien:
truthman2012
You've said nothing comes from nothing then how come "god" is a something that comes from nothing....don't those points contradict?

The op did not say God came from nothing. It said God has always existed, which means 'a state nothingness' has never existed. There has always been something and that something, who/what ever it is, is God.

ooman2:
Material effects require material causes.

So a god, which is not material, cannot influence material medium.

Has this been proven?

Dewze:
The op did not say God came from nothing. It said God has always existed, which means 'a state nothingness' has never existed. There has always been something and that something, who/what ever it is, is God.

If God can just exist what's not to say matter could have also just existed or even the universe and all in it. Who's to say the was something before existence?

TheIndustrialist:
That is one big question I have had lately.

If everything emerged from a singularity , then where comes the singularity ?
If you don't wanna believe the world started on its own, how then do you expect others to believe that God started on his own ?

If you seek to reconcile both THOUGHTS , then the universe or existence itself is GOD.

The op is not saying God 'started' on His own, it is saying God as non-material being never started at any point in time. He has always been.

Dewze:
The op did not say God came from nothing. It said God has always existed, which means 'a state nothingness' has never existed. There has always been something and that something, who/what ever it is, is God.

Got it. So let's get to the talking part. Who did this something we call "God" talk to? It's easy to agree that God exists, if God is defined as whatever precipitated the formation of the universe. Everyone knows that the universe has a beginning. You wanna call it God, fine.

But who did the beginning speak to? That's the foundation of all religions, the talking beginning/God. What have you seen in life which makes you believe that the beginning of the universe is a humanoid being that speaks English?

Weah96:
Got it. So let's get to the talking part. Who did this something we call "God" talk to? It's easy to agree that God exists, if God is defined as whatever precipitated the formation of the universe. Everyone knows that the universe has a beginning. You wanna call it God, fine.

But who did the beginning speak to? That's the foundation of all religions, the talking beginning/God. What have you seen in life which makes you believe that the beginning of the universe is a humanoid being that speaks English?

The universe is the world you see and experience with your material instruments, so we can't for certain call it God. It has a beginning and may as well have an ending, so we can't call it God as He is conventionally defined/described.

I do not know who God spoke to. He may have been speaking to His creatures or other kinds like Him.

It would be fairly basic to want to assume a creator of such magnificence such as the universe would look and talk like human, humans being the closest example/model to adopt for an image of God that man has not seen, but claim to have heard.

The bible was not originally written in English and it was never stated the language God spoke in.

Horus:
Are you saying that your "god" created the Advanced Learners Dictionary?, yes or no?

Advanced Learners Dictionary is not created but authored. My God created the author.

DieeDiee:
If God can just exist what's not to say matter could have also just existed or even the universe and all in it. Who's to say the was something before existence?

No one born of flesh has the right to tell you there was something before existence,
Just Follow the evidence.

Dewze:
The universe is the world you see and experience with your material instruments, so we can't for certain call it God. It has a beginning and may as well have an ending, so we can't call it God as He is conventionally defined/described.

I do not know who God spoke to. He may have been speaking to His creatures or other kinds like Him.

It would be fairly basic to want to assume a creator of such magnificence such as the universe would look and talk like human, humans being the closest example/model to adopt for an image of God that man has not seen, but claim to have heard.

The bible was not originally written in English and it was never stated the language God spoke in.

I never said that the universe is God. Believers usually point to the beginning of the universe when they try to justify their beliefs. That's why I was willing to concede that the universe had a point of origin and if God is your term for that point, then so be it.


The personal Gods in organized Abrahamic religions are multi lingual, from what I hear. I used to offer prayers to Jesus myself, although I never heard the man's voice. So what you're telling me is that TB Joshua is lying when he claims that God spoke to him? If not, then which language does God use to communicate?