Dewze:


The op never said the 'existence of God' is beyond scientific experimentation, it said that 'God' is beyond scientific experimentation.

Fallacy of equivocation here.

Oh and by the way the OP did say that God is beyond human experiments. He stated this not only in the OP but in a couple of responses.

Your analogy of hunters tracking animals falls flat because the animals are material beings interacting in their material environment and the effects are observed with material senses and tools. Furthermore, trackers can track animals by these traits because they have studied these animals or similar. Guess why big foot or the lochness monster is not taken seriously except by conspiracy theorists.


Again I state that you cannot declare something beyond experimentation and then in the same breath state that that thing is scientifically proven.

davien:
why a who? do people make universes?

There is the evidence that something causes something and nothing causes something. That the Universe exists, something must have caused it and God said he was in the Bible.

Science has not discovered everything and may not discover everything, right?

Does it then mean nothing more exists because science has not discovered them?

If there are things not yet discovered and may not be discovered, God is one of them.

xyluz:


No, i'm not.

But you are totally confident that he was a mere man.

I didn't call them Gods... please read my comment again, i believe its written in the bible, and thats all i said... But they too died as mere men... they might have lived a little longer than others (in their dispensation), but in the end... they all died as mere men.

Here is what you said in red
Yes. At some point in history, these people existed... its not expressly stated in the bible (not their names anyway), but it is stated that their were men on earth who were considered gods by other men, the bible even called them sons of God. . I'm sure I have not quoted you out of context.

And my reply in green I ask because you have declared Obatala to be just a man but you have included foreign Gods as real Gods (at least according to men).

In any case, I have no issue with you.

truthman2012:


Who caused the Universe?

I do not know who/what "caused" the Universe.

truthman2012:


There is the evidence that something causes something and nothing causes something. That the Universe exists, something must have caused it and God said he was in the Bible.

can you define a "nothing" that causes something?

Science has not discovered everything and may not discover everything, right?

True...although discovering things aren't the full objective of science....we also have to understand and demonstrate discoveries...even in non-scientific epistemology knowledge can be demonstrated through deductive arguments...

Does it then mean nothing more exists because science has not discovered them?

No, it just means they can't be asserted as real without proof nor verified justifications...

If there are things not yet discovered and may not be discovered, God is one of them.

How is "god" among the string of unknowns of science,when it can't be demonstrated nor even highlighted as a possible factor involved in anything?

davien:
can you define a "nothing" that causes something?
True...although discovering things aren't the full objective of science....we also have to understand and demonstrate discoveries...even in non-scientific epistemology knowledge can be demonstrated through deductive arguments...
No, it just means they can't be asserted as real without proof nor verified justifications...
How is "god" among the string of unknowns of science,when it can't be demonstrated nor even highlighted as a possible factor involved in anything?

I don't know if i have asked you: who caused the Universe?

jayriginal:


I do not know who/what "caused" the Universe.

you don't know what or who caused the universe, so science don't have any idea of what caused the universe? If atheists don't have the idea of what caused the universe, then atheists should have no problems when Christian say it God that caused the universe.

truthman2012:


I don't know if i have asked you: who caused the Universe?

Why a who? do people create universes?

davien:
Why a who? do people create universes?

Okay, what caused the Universe?

truthman2012:


Okay, what caused the Universe?

I dunno,as far as we can tell the universe is a result of cosmic inflation..do you agree with this?

davien:
I dunno,as far as we can tell the universe is a result of cosmic inflation..do you agree with this?

Define 'cosmic inflation'.

malvisguy212:
you don't know what or who caused the universe,

No I dont.

so science don't have any idea of what caused the universe?

Science does have an idea(s). Look it up.

If atheists don't have the idea of what caused the universe, then atheists should have no problems when Christian say it God that caused the universe.

First, I speak for myself only. Secondly, off the top of your head, can you tell me who I had dinner with last night? No? So you should have no problems if I tell you I dined with the Obama family last night. Can you see the flawed logic?

jayriginal:

No I dont.



Science does have an idea(s). Look it up.



First, I speak for myself only. Secondly, off the top of your head, can you tell me who I had dinner with last night? No? So you should have no problems if I tell you I dined with the Obama family last night. Can you see the flawed logic?

science had have an idea, so what that?

If you dine with someone last night,which I have no idea who is he, you will have to prove it.

malvisguy212:
science had have an idea, so what that?

Look it up if you are interested. I am not here for that. Better to get your information from the source.

If you dine with someone last night,which I have no idea who is he, you will have to prove it.

Ah, these are double standards. We are in the same position. I dont know who/what "caused" the world and on the basis of that you invite me to accept that God did it, just because the bible and christians say so.

Well, you really dont know who I had dinner with last night and I invite you to believe that I dined with the Obama family last night just because I say so. Instead of you to comply with your own standards, you are asking me for proof. I guess my work with you is done then.

jayriginal:


Look it up if you are interested. I am not here for that. Better to get your information from the source.



Ah, these are double standards. We are in the same position. I dont know who/what "caused" the world and on the basis of that you invite me to accept that God did it, just because the bible and christians say so.

Well, you really dont know who I had dinner with last night and I invite you to believe that I dined with the Obama family last night just because I say so. Instead of you to comply with your own standards, you are asking me for proof. I guess my work with you is done then.

you should be very worried because you don't know what caused the universe,meaning your atheism is base upon empty evidence(blind faith) .As a Christians,bible encourages us to be fully convinced of what we believe,bible say we should ask question and be sure of what we believe,john the baptist who supposed to have no doubt about Jesus still say this word" are you the Messiah or we should expect another?" he wanted to be sure of what he believe,hence, the question.there are many error and satanic deception in your post. The devil is deceiving you guys.

jayriginal:


I do not know who/what "caused" the Universe.

If you don't know something and someone tells you what it is, what justification do you have to deny it?

malvisguy212:
you should be very worried because you don't know what caused the universe,meaning your atheism is base upon empty evidence(blind faith)

You Sir, are a work of art. Where have I declared what I believe in? What does empty evidence even mean?

From your responses to me, you are the one who has blind faith. See the conversation below in case you have forgotten

malvisguy212:
If atheists don't have the idea of what caused the universe, then atheists should have no problems when Christian say it God that caused the universe.

my reply following your logic

jayriginal:

. . . off the top of your head, can you tell me who I had dinner with last night? No? So you should have no problems if I tell you I dined with the Obama family last night. Can you see the flawed logic?

Your double standards

malvisguy212:

If you dine with someone last night,which I have no idea who is he, you will have to prove it.

So who comes off as someone who has blind faith? You do!

You should take your time to educate yourself about the issues.

As a Christians,bible encourages us to be fully convinced of what we believe,bible say we should ask question and be sure of what we believe,john the baptist who supposed to have no doubt about Jesus still say this word" are you the Messiah or we should expect another?" he wanted to be sure of what he believe,hence, the question.there are many error and satanic deception in your post. The devil is deceiving you guys.

Well thank you Mr Name Calling Christian. Your Jesus must be proud of you. Its not enough to say that there are many errors and satanic deceptions in my post. You need to point them out and identify which ones are errors and which are satanic deceptions. I have taken the time to show you the flaws in your logic. Its not my fault if you dont or (most likely) wont see them.

Oh by the way, there is nothing to worry about in not knowing who/what "caused" the Universe. There is a lot to worry about not being able to think critically.

truthman2012:


If you don't know something and someone tells you what it is, what justification do you have to deny it?

To the best of my knowledge, I have not denied anything. You need to understand the difference in not believing in something and denying something. Think about it.

To go one step further, if you dont know with whom I had dinner with last night, what is your justification in not accepting that I had dinner with the Obama family at Chibok?

truthman2012:


Define 'cosmic inflation'.

Did you try wiki, because I'm sure we'd be going in circles if I tried explaining it for you..
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_(cosmology)

jayriginal:


You Sir, are a work of art. Where have I declared what I believe in? What does empty evidence even mean?

From your responses to me, you are the one who has blind faith. See the conversation below in case you have forgotten



my reply following your logic


Your double standards



So who comes off as someone who has blind faith? You do!

You should take your time to educate yourself about the issues.



Well thank you Mr Name Calling Christian. Your Jesus must be proud of you. Its not enough to say that there are many errors and satanic deceptions in my post. You need to point them out and identify which ones are errors and which are satanic deceptions. I have taken the time to show you the flaws in your logic. Its not my fault if you dont or (most likely) wont see them.

Oh by the way, there is nothing to worry about in not knowing who/what "caused" the Universe. There is a lot to worry about not being able to think critically.

let me tell you what am trying to say.

You don't have a clue on what caused the universe , but you believe it's not God, don't you think you put your self in a risk? When we say it God, your answer would have been OK.

malvisguy212:
let me tell you what am trying to say.

You don't have a clue on what caused the universe , but you believe it's not God, don't you think you put your self in a risk? When we say it God, your answer would have been OK.

I never said I believe its not God.

jayriginal:


I never said I believe its not God.

are you an atheist?

malvisguy212:
are you an atheist?

I prefer to refer to myself as Jayriginal.

jayriginal:


I prefer to refer to myself as Jayriginal.

agnostics. You see, no matter how you try to disassociated your self, there's always a group you belong to.

There's God but you don't really know Him, to know the true God read this thread and ask your question.
https://www.nairaland.com/1999485/all-religions-lead-god-one

malvisguy212:
agnostics. You see, no matter how you try to disassociated your self, there's always a group you belong to.

There's God but you don't really know Him, to know the true God read this thread and ask your question.
https://www.nairaland.com/1999485/all-religions-lead-god-one

Right! Like you disassociate yourself from robbers but theres always a group of rogues you belong to.

You dont have the slightest idea of what it means to be atheist or agnostic. Sadly neither do a lot of people. Its better to avoid labels when discussing with the likes of you.

.

davien:
Did you try wiki, because I'm sure we'd be going in circles if I tried explaining it for you..
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_(cosmology)

Cosmic inflation is defined as 'expansion of space'. Try to explain how this led to emergence of man, afterall he is a part of the Universe.

truthman2012:


Cosmic inflation is defined as 'expansion of space'. Try to explain how this led to emergence of man, afterall he is a part of the Universe.

Has your browsing capability expired or you're too lazy to make the research?

davien:
Has your browsing capability expired or you're too lazy to make the research?

You need to defend the issue you raised and it is you who is lazy to state what you discovered in your reseach.

How did cosmic inflation lead to emergence of man?

truthman2012:


You need to defend the issue you raised and it is you who is lazy to state what you discovered in your reseach.

How did cosmic inflation lead to emergence of man?

lol....If you had read anything about the subject you'd know it has nothing to do with the existence of human beings...you're leaping from astronomy to biology..

davien:
lol....If you had read anything about the subject you'd know it has nothing to do with the existence of human beings...you're leaping from astronomy to biology..

Is man not part of the Universe, which you believe came to existence through cosmic inflation? The question that led to this was 'What Caused the Universe'? And you said it was cosmic inflation. Then, how did the cosmic inflation produce man?

truthman2012:


Is man not part of the Universe, which you believe came to existence through cosmic inflation? The question that led to this was 'What Caused the Universe'? And you said it was cosmic inflation. Then, how did the cosmic inflation produce man?

You are applying it wrongly....
Here's an analogy,because erosion forms soil and micro-organisms are a part of soil doesn't mean erosion creates micro-organisms,do you understand?