Rich4god:
o common... Even the link you gave made it clear that the first crusade was in response to bynzantine emperor call for help against the islamic jihadist... What else do you want to hear...

Yes, we may also excuse the fact that they went on rampage massacring Many innocent Jews and Muslims in the process. Not to dwell much on that, what I find especially astounding is that you are perfectly willing to excuse the crimes of the crusaders (who killed in the name of their god) because they were responding to perceived injustices from the Muslims in the middle east (a political reality at the time), yet, you're unyielding when I propose that many Muslims are now doing the same in light of current political realities that make Western powers come across as oppressive. Did you read the article I shared of Karen Armstrong? It's here (http://www.salon.com/2014/11/23/karen_armstrong_sam_harris_anti_islam_talk_fills_me_with_despair/) if you missed it the first time. It puts a lot of things in perspective.

To be clear, I do not excuse any of the groups. I'm just putting things in perspective for you, as you seem to miss my point.

Rich4god:

If I get you right, the koran condems the killing of someone who desecrated the koran or abused the propet...?

Now, some muslims countries have what we call blasphemy law wch issues a death penalty to pple who fall short of the law. So many pple have fallen victim to this law in middle east esp...

Now, these laws are been uphelp by islamic scholars of the country and the muslims all rally around to ensure that the offender faces the penalty. Now if am to deduce logically, does it mean that the muslims in those country are practicing anoda brand of islam...?

There is no ruling on blasphemy mentioned in the quran. My quotes have shown that the quran doesn't support unjust killings either. So the rulings that have been derived on blasphemy have come from people in authority.

More quotes:
…Let not a people’s enmity incite you to act otherwise than with justice. Be always just, that is nearer to righteousness… (Ch.5:V.9)

But Islam does not only condemn the blaspheming of God. It also protects the feelings of polytheists, by forbidding Muslims from attacking their idols. On this point, the Holy Qur’an states:

And revile not those whom they call upon beside Allah, lest they, out of spite, revile Allah in their ignorance.… (Ch.6:V.109)

In other words, Islam teaches Muslims to be sensitive to the sensibilities of others—no matter how strongly they disagree with them. The implication of this verse is that if it is not permitted for Muslims to slander false idols, it certainly cannot be permissible for Muslims to defile other sects within Islam or other religions.

http://www.reviewofreligions.org/5002/what-is-the-punishment-for-blasphemy-in-islam/#sthash.Y9uTSiSF.dpuf

Rich4god:
plz, i did expect you to have ignored that comment for now...

I want to let you knw that all religions have pretty much bad pple including xtianity, but its the way the general body handle the bad ones that matters. Pple are annoyed against muslims, not because all muslims are bad, but because they have failed to call their pple to order.

They have failed to call their people to order? Listen to what you're saying. You're Nigerian, I presume? So how many crime peddling 419 Nigerians have you called to order for their crimes? How many times have you gone out to protest the criminality of Nigerians that give Nigeria a bad name? You need to be realistic with your demands, and stop pontificating.

It is the responsibility of the law to deal with anybody who commits a crime. I don't expect you to call your 419 Nigerian brother to order, and I am not angry at you if you wish not to take responsibility for a crime you haven't committed either.

Ifeann:



Hypocrites Here are verses from the religion of "peace"

Sahih Muslim 8:29: “IT IS PERMISSIBLE TO HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH A CAPTIVE WOMAN AFTER SHE IS PURIFIED (OF MENSES OR DELIVERY) IN CASE SHE HAS A HUSBAND, HER MARRIAGE IS ABROGATED AFTER SHE BECOMES CAPTIVE.”
Sahih Muslim 8:3432: “Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that at the Battle of Hunain Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that:" And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (verse 4:24)" (i.e., they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end).”

Qur'an (4:24)-"And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." Even sex with married slaves is permissible.

Qur'an (8:69)-"But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good" A reference to war booty, of which slaves were a part

Qur'an (33:50)-"O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee"

Qur'an (23:5-6)-"..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..." This verse permits the slave-owner to have sex with his slaves.

See also Qur'an (70:29-30). The Quran is a small book, so if Allah used valuable space to repeat the same point four times, then sex slavery must be very important to him.

Qur'an (24:32)-"And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves..." Breeding slaves based on fitness.
Qur'an (2:178)-"O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female." The message of this verse, which prescribes the rules of retaliation for murder, is that all humans arenotcreated equal. The human value of a slave is less than that of a free person (and a woman's worth is also distinguished from that of a man's)


Do you want more evidence on why Islam is inherently vile, why Muslims go around killing people and why there has been over 25,000 terrorist incidents carried out by muslims since September the 11th 2001...


Here is a taste of islam from saudi arabia. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=550_1421270303

So according to you because islam permits sexual relations with women slaves whom your right hand possess that makes it a vile and wicked religion? Well you might as well call the religion of Abraham a vile and wicked one too because Abraham did that with Haajar, when he took her as a concubine when
he was married to Saarah and she bore him ishma'el. Who are you to judge on the laws of God, and after following your post I see you calling people hypocrites, insulting people here and there and I realize that you are out there only to condemn the religion, searching the internet for hateful comments, links to website you don't know anything about and posting here, instead of giving an open mind and listening to explanation from true muslims like the OP sameerah. Am sure that's why she ignores your questions. If I may ask why haven't you quote verses from the qur'an that preaches peace, love and care also or were you there just to look for verses which you don't understand the meanings to just to portray the religion as evil? I urge you to value the tenets of christianity and please love your neighbors as you love yourself.

AgentOfAllah:


Yes, we may also excuse the fact that they went on rampage massacring Many innocent Jews and Muslims in the process. Not to dwell much on that, what I find especially astounding is that you are perfectly willing to excuse the crimes of the crusaders (who killed in the name of their god) because they were responding to perceived injustices from the Muslims in the middle east (a political reality at the time), yet, you're unyielding when I propose that many Muslims are now doing the same in light of current political realities that make Western powers come across as oppressive. Did you read the article I shared of Karen Armstrong? It's here (http://www.salon.com/2014/11/23/karen_armstrong_sam_harris_anti_islam_talk_fills_me_with_despair/) if you missed it the first time. It puts a lot of things in perspective.

To be clear, I do not excuse any of the groups. I'm just putting things in perspective for you, as you seem to miss my point.

Gosh... Am not excluding their sins... Its like accusing Nigerian Army of killing innocents citizens know fully well that they were caught in the cross fire. Get my point, if islamic jihadist didnt provoke pple, there wont have been crusade... Same way if BH didnt start this insurgency, the north east wont have been a ghost states by now.

When you talk about western power oppressiveness, if taliban and co attack US military function during war, no one calls that a terrorist... But when you go out, attacking and killing pple of your own in the name of religion jst because they have a different religion orientation, then, its a no no...

italo:


The verse specifically says that they should fight until there is no more disbelief...until the enemies submit to Allah.

Quran 2:193 Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.



You're ignoring that.

This is the meaning of the verse Q2:193

Keep on fighting against them until mischief ends and the way prescribed by Allah prevails. But if they desist, then know that hostility is directed only against the wrong-doers.

Mischief being killing, oppression. But Allah is saying that even if they refuse to follow and believe that hostility should only be directed to the wrongdoers. Not the innocent. He didn't say kill. He said fight. I would like to think that I am fighting now for my religion to be understood.

AgentOfAllah:


They have failed to call their people to order? Listen to what you're saying. You're Nigerian, I presume? So how many crime peddling 419 Nigerians have you called to order for their crimes? How many times have you gone out to protest the criminality of Nigerians that give Nigeria a bad name? You need to be realistic with your demands, and stop pontificating.

It is the responsibility of the law to deal with anybody who commits a crime. I don't expect you to call your 419 Nigerian brother to order, and I am not angry at you if you wish not to take responsibility for a crime you haven't committed either.

Now take a look at your comment and carefully analyze it so that you can see the loop holes...
If someone is into 419, he or she is doing so for his own personal gain and the police force are there to call him to order cos its their duty and that of the govt. And yes, if the person is your brother/frnd, its your civic duty to explain to the person about the dangers of his actions. If police raid a kidnappers den and you are found among them, you still have to answer your way out on what you are doing there at that moment. Thats why we need to dissociate ourslf frm bad gangs.... Same way true muslims shld try and dissociate themselves from bad muslims.

Now when a person decides to commit crime in the name of his religion, its the duty of his religion leaders to caution him, condem his act and deter others from doing same. Believe me, if there used to be a rally across the muslims world condeming such attacks, the number of new recruits joining terrorist cells will drop with a significant number. Why is it that in a country like ours, anytime there is a form of dialogue against violence, all religion leaders are invited. Cos they have a big role to play in controling the mind of their follower.

sameera025:


There is no ruling on blasphemy mentioned in the quran. My quotes have shown that the quran doesn't support unjust killings either. So the rulings that have been derived on blasphemy have come from people and not the quran. I only support that which is in the quran. Anything else is unislamic.

More quotes:
…Let not a people’s enmity incite you to act otherwise than with justice. Be always just, that is nearer to righteousness… (Ch.5:V.9)

But Islam does not only condemn the blaspheming of God. It also protects the feelings of polytheists, by forbidding Muslims from attacking their idols. On this point, the Holy Qur’an states:

And revile not those whom they call upon beside Allah, lest they, out of spite, revile Allah in their ignorance.… (Ch.6:V.109)

In other words, Islam teaches Muslims to be sensitive to the sensibilities of others—no matter how strongly they disagree with them. The implication of this verse is that if it is not permitted for Muslims to slander false idols, it certainly cannot be permissible for Muslims to defile other sects within Islam or other religions.

http://www.reviewofreligions.org/5002/what-is-the-punishment-for-blasphemy-in-islam/#sthash.Y9uTSiSF.dpuf

Deducing from your statement, can I conclude that the version of islam countries like Nigeria, Saudia, Pakistan, Afgan and co practice is an adultrated type of Islam and not the one passed down by the prophet.

I just want to say finally here that RELIGION isn't the problem its the people who follow them. Heck religion isn't the only thing that divides us now, what of TRIBE, RACE, etc? Why religion is an issue is because it has a large divide of people and this is what is needed to cause mischief in the land by the devil's advocates. Like it or not if there was no religion in the world today, the Devil and its advocates will still use other things to cause mayhem in God's planet earth. So let's stop all these condemnation of religion and focus on the devils advocates using it as a weapon people like that animal called shekau nd others una digg?

Rich4god:
@Sameera025... You talked about islam been in love with education... But why is it that most islamic nation clamp down on this that brings about a good and better education such as freedom of speech, the use of internet and their likes.

@sameera025: i still need response to this...

toobasky:
I just want to say finally here that RELIGION isn't the problem its the people who follow them. Heck religion isn't the only thing that divides us now, what of TRIBE, RACE, etc? Why religion is an issue is because it has a large divide of people and this is what is needed to cause mischief in the land by the devil's advocates. Like it or not if there was no religion in the world today, the Devil and its advocates will still use other things to cause mayhem in God's planet earth. So let's stop all these condemnation of religion and focus on the devils advocates using it as a weapon people like that animal called shekau nd others una digg?

You just said it all... Pple commit crime and then they find ways to justify it. Though some pple are busy condeming islam, am not here to do so... Just want to have a better understanding of their religion...

Rich4god:

Deducing from your statement, can I conclude that the version of islam countries like Nigeria, Saudia, Pakistan, Afgan and co practice is an adultrated type of Islam and not the one passed down by the prophet.

You cannot generalize countries as a whole.
Some muslims practice the teachings of the quran more than others. Just as as some Christians are more religious than others and there are many different sects of christian who all have different beliefs and follow different rulings. Same as muslims. Culture also always comes into play as well. It should not be confused with religious rulings.

Rich4god:
@sameera025: i still need response to this...

I cannot just why the actions of this because it isn't islamic. This is one of the issues of culture coming to play. The fact remains that islam encourages knowledge and spreading knowledge as I do now. No muslim I have met as ever been denied these rights and it is because I was fortunate enough to grow up where it is accepted in the culture.

sameera025:


You cannot generalize countries as a whole.
Some muslims practice the teachings of the quran more than others. Just as as some Christians are more religious than others and there are many different sects of christian who all have different beliefs and follow different rulings. Same as muslims. Culture also always comes into play as well. It should not be confused with religious rulings.

Why I said so is that, most of the teachings that you proved wrong here are actually what some muslim countries (esp the ones i listed) uphold as their main islamic teaching backed by their scholars.

sameera025:


I cannot just why the actions of this because it isn't islamic. This is one of the issues of culture coming to play. The fact remains that islam encourages knowledge and spreading knowledge as I do now. No muslim I have met as ever been denied these rights and it is because I was fortunate enough to grow up where it is accepted in the culture.

Maybe its cos you grew up in the west... In saudia, jst last week, a man was detained and sentence to prison with a thousand lashes for blogging. In iran, some pple where arrested for uploading the new dancing skills in youtube... To mention but a few...

Rich4god:
Maybe its cos you grew up in the west... In saudia, jst last week, a man was detained and sentence to prison with a thousand lashes for blogging. In iran, some pple where arrested for uploading the new dancing skills in youtube... To mention but a few...

They broke laws set by their country. Laws are laws. Whether we agree with them or not. And we know that if we break them, we have to face the penalties set in motion. Say there weren't laws set against these actions and they were wrongly prosecuted that would be a different argument.

italo:


We are not talking of the process. In the process of removing Hitler, innocents died. In the process of fighting ISIS, Boko Haram, innocents are dying.

What caused the crusades? The atrocities of Muslims in and around the Holy land.

Italo Muslims always deny they caused the crusades by provokprovoking the byzantines and slaughtering christains. . As much as i abhor the excesses of the crusades it did do one good thing, it stopped the Muslims for a while in their jihad.
agentofallah u really need some education on the crusade and jihad start with this excellent presentation Why We Are Afraid, A 1400 Year Secret, by Dr Bill Warner its avaliable on the kaffir invention called YouTube


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y

BOko haram have killed over 10000 Nigerians for what ?

Over an Arab man and his sexual promises and vengeance . God does not need any1 to fight for him. Just like an ant that wants to fight for man


Its just that the inhabitants of Nigeria r stupid they r only wise when it comes to 419


A country leader will tell u about its ppl

2 clueless ppl r the top favorite to be head of the country

If u think GEJ is cluELESS Buhari is as clueless if not more

Muslims both rich and poor are fanatics! I've had bad experiences with this folks and I'm yet to recover from them. They are a menace

sameera025:


This is the meaning of the verse Q2:193

Keep on fighting against them until mischief ends and the way prescribed by Allah prevails. But if they desist, then know that hostility is directed only against the wrong-doers.

Mischief being killing, oppression. But Allah is saying that even if they refuse to follow and believe that hostility should only be directed to the wrongdoers. Not the innocent. He didn't say kill. He said fight. I would like to think that I am fighting now for my religion to be understood.

1. You said that "fitnah" is "mischief" and it meant killing. Q2:191 (two verses above) says "fitnah is worse than killing." Fitnah also means disbelief and worshipping other gods.

2. You said he didn't say "kill." He said it two verses earlier. In fact, he said "if they fight you, kill them." Q2:191.

3. You cannot explain: "Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah."

So what happens if they stop fighting you but they don't acknowledge Allah?

Muhammad says "keep fighting them." Isn't that the logical conclusion?

toobasky:


So according to you because islam permits sexual relations with women slaves whom your right hand possess that makes it a vile and wicked religion? Well you might as well call the religion of Abraham a vile and wicked one too because Abraham did that with Haajar, when he took her as a concubine when
he was married to Saarah and she bore him ishma'el. Who are you to judge on the laws of God, and after following your post I see you calling people hypocrites, insulting people here and there and I realize that you are out there only to condemn the religion, searching the internet for hateful comments, links to website you don't know anything about and posting here, instead of giving an open mind and listening to explanation from true muslims like the OP sameerah. Am sure that's why she ignores your questions. If I may ask why haven't you quote verses from the qur'an that preaches peace, love and care also or were you there just to look for verses which you don't understand the meanings to just to portray the religion as evil? I urge you to value the tenets of christianity and please love your neighbors as you love yourself.

Hello friend.
You said

So according to you because islam permits sexual relations with women slaves whom your right hand possess that makes it a vile and wicked religion? Well you might as well call the religion of Abraham a vile and wicked one too because Abraham did that with Haajar, when he took her as a concubine when
he was married to Saarah and she bore him ishma'el.

Can't you see the flaw in your argument. ..u once again condemn Islam while trying to defend it. ..Abraham did that over 3000 years before Jesus. ....we know this because jews were particularly good at keeping and passing records. this was an ancient event even by the time of Jesus. . Jesus was crucified in his 30s and didn't once promote slavery or sexual immortality. .
Jews still had servant at this time but they were commanded to be very fair to them and marry them and if the slave was unhappy the slave was free to leave..how do we know this. Because it is part of the Old law jews lived by to maintain righteousness. Mohammed on the other hand traded slaves, had sex with slaves, adviced on breeding slaves , approved of sleeping with married slaves because the righthand of the Muslim possess ed them. So jews for thousands of years treated slaves well and married them but St Paul in his letters acknowledged slaves where under a yolk and even preached equality as seen in

Galatians 3:28p
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond(slave) nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 12:13:"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond(slave) or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Colossians 3:11:"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond(slave) nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."

These are the writings of paul as inspired by the Holy spirit who lived 600 years before the slavery loving Mohammed. Do you see the problem with theteachings of Mohammed here.


In addition our lord Jesus born of a virgin , sinless and without carnal desires who died was buried and resurrected gives us christainity tells us love our neighbour as ourself, love forgive and endure ; and on the other side of the spectrum we have the bipolar Mohammed who contradicted most of the teachings of Christ. Mohammed who was so carnal and even had sexu.al relations with a child , who aassassinated his critics. , murdered 900 jews in one day, killed hundreds of pagans and fought people till his death by the poison of ajewish woman gives the world Islam which is the cause of so much evil in the world today and is clearly the spirit of the anti christ as prophesied in the bible. .. and u say i shouldn't say islam is vile. .. wow.

Who are you to judge on the laws of God,

Wow. ... my brother in humanity Islam is not of the true God. It's against the new covenant God has brought us through Jesus. Let me make it clear to you, i say to you that Mohammed was a fraud and the closest thing he came to a miracle is the quran with all its abrogation and contradictions

and after following your post I see you calling people hypocrites, insulting people here and there and I realize that you are out there only to condemn the religion, searching the internet for hateful comments, links to website you don't know anything about and posting here, instead of giving an open mind and listening to explanation from true muslims like the OP sameerah.

Ok let me make this clear i use words that fit the situation. .. hope ypu know the meaning of a hypocrite. I submit that the explanations given by the op is hypocritical. I don't mean to insult him or her only stating it as it appears. I have made over 300 posts while discussing with Muslims and atheists i haven't once by the grace of God insulted anyone even as they insult me. .in every topic i create i plead with people not to insult the Muslims check and see for yourself

Am sure that's why she ignores your questions.

She answer some and She ignores the questions that threaten her version of Islam the Disney world version that fears sharia, killing of apostates, stonings etc

If I may ask why haven't you quote verses from the qur'an that preaches peace, love and care also or were you there just to look for verses which you don't understand the meanings to just to portray the religion as evil?

Look i am not here to affirm the quran ... i am here to show why there is so much evil rooted in it. .. Mohammed said some nice things bit it is the evil practises he did that has been replicated by the Muslim world that is causing the craziness all around. Instead of us talking about global warming, ebola and economic development we are instead dealing with Muslims who just love chaos

I urge you to value the tenets of christianity and please love your neighbors as you love yourself

Its because of the love i have for you Muslims that i Give a couple of hours each week by God's grace to expose islam to muslims and discuss these issues as honestly and blunt as possible. .without lies and hypocrisy

sameera025:


I would love to live by the rulings of the quran. Where life is just and fair. The unfortunate thing is that everywhere people are failed by a system made to be just, that is manipulated to be unjust to others.

So do you support the stoning of adulterers and the amputation of petty thieves as well as the subjugation of women in the sharia law?

Ifeann:



Hello friend.
You said



Can't you see the flaw in your argument. ..u once again condemn Islam while trying to defend it. ..Abraham did that over 3000 years before Jesus. ....we know this because jews were particularly good at keeping and passing records. this was an ancient event even by the time of Jesus. . Jesus was crucified in his 30s and didn't once promote slavery or sexual immortality. .
Jews still had servant at this time but they were commanded to be very fair to them and marry them and if the slave was unhappy the slave was free to leave..how do we know this. Because it is part of the Old law jews lived by to maintain righteousness. Mohammed on the other hand traded slaves, had sex with slaves, adviced on breeding slaves , approved of sleeping with married slaves because the righthand of the Muslim possess ed them. So jews for thousands of years treated slaves well and married them but St Paul in his letters acknowledged slaves where under a yolk and even preached equality as seen in

Galatians 3:28p
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond(slave) nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 12:13:"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond(slave) or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Colossians 3:11:"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond(slave) nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."

These are the writings of paul as inspired by the Holy spirit who lived 600 years before the slavery loving Mohammed. Do you see the problem with theteachings of Mohammed here.


In addition our lord Jesus born of a virgin , sinless and without carnal desires who died was buried and resurrected gives us christainity tells us love our neighbour as ourself, love forgive and endure ; and on the other side of the spectrum we have the bipolar Mohammed who contradicted most of the teachings of Christ. Mohammed who was so carnal and even had sexu.al relations with a child , who aassassinated his critics. , murdered 900 jews in one day, killed hundreds of pagans and fought people till his death by the poison of ajewish woman gives the world Islam which is the cause of so much evil in the world today and is clearly the spirit of the anti christ as prophesied in the bible. .. and u say i shouldn't say islam is vile. .. wow.


Wow. ... my brother in humanity Islam is not of the true God. It's against the new covenant God has brought us through Jesus. Let me make it clear to you, i say to you that Mohammed was a fraud and the closest thing he came to a miracle is the quran with all its abrogation and contradictions


Ok let me make this clear i use words that fit the situation. .. hope ypu know the meaning of a hypocrite. I submit that the explanations given by the op is hypocritical. I don't mean to insult him or her only stating it as it appears. I have made over 300 posts while discussing with Muslims and atheists i haven't once by the grace of God insulted anyone even as they insult me. .in every topic i create i plead with people not to insult the Muslims check and see for yourself



She answer some and She ignores the questions that threaten her version of Islam the Disney world version that fears sharia, killing of apostates, stonings etc


Look i am not here to affirm the quran ... i am here to show why there is so much evil rooted in it. .. Mohammed said some nice things bit it is the evil practises he did that has been replicated by the Muslim world that is causing the craziness all around. Instead of us talking about global warming, ebola and economic development we are instead dealing with Muslims who just love chaos



Its because of the love i have for you Muslims that i Give a couple of hours each week by God's grace to expose islam to muslims and discuss these issues as honestly and blunt as possible. .without lies and hypocrisy

I have not ignored questions if have answered several to the best of my ability. I do not reply to the insulting rants for they aren't seeking answers, they are merely stating their own convictions. Do not call my version of islam the "Disney world" version for I practice what I have been told in the quran. As for sharia, I never told you I fear such. Justice is justice, and there can't be order without law.

italo:


1. You said that "fitnah" is "mischief" and it meant killing. Q2:191 (two verses above) says "fitnah is worse than killing." Fitnah also means disbelief and worshipping other gods.

2. You said he didn't say "kill." He said it two verses earlier. In fact, he said "if they fight you, kill them." Q2:191.

3. You cannot explain: "Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah."

So what happens if they stop fighting you but they don't acknowledge Allah?

Muhammad says "keep fighting them." Isn't that the logical conclusion?

The line right after it says, But if they desist, then know that hostility is directed only against the wrong-doers. To answer your question to those who stop fighting and don't believe.
It was the disbelievers who tormented and oppressed muslims. The line is a command from God telling the Prophet to fight back until there are no more of these disbelievers who were causing the mischief. If the line was meant to mean that all disbelievers should be killed the line that says, "But if they desist, then know that hostility is directed only against the wrong-doers." wouldn't follow it.

Here is verse 2:190-194 it will make more sense when read as a whole.

Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear (the punishment of) God, and know that God is with those who restrain themselves." [Noble Quran 2:190-194]

sameera025:


They broke laws set by their country. Laws are laws. Whether we agree with them or not. And we know that if we break them, we have to face the penalties set in motion. Say there weren't laws set against these actions and they were wrongly prosecuted that would be a different argument.

I dont really knw when the Nigerian constitution allow the killing of some1 for abusing a prophet cos countless pple have fallen victims to such act here in Nigeria. Even in Afgan/Pakistan, we have seen fanatics forcing their way into police station to pick out and kill victims who are under police protection cos they commited blasphemy...

Anyway, dont want us to continue argueing on this issue. Lets move on to my next question...

What is the Islamic stand on a muslim who converted to another religion. Is the person supposed to be killed or left alone...?

sameera025:


I have not ignored questions if have answered several to the best of my ability. I do not reply to the insulting rants for they aren't seeking answers, they are merely stating their own convictions. Do not call my version of islam the "Disney world" version for I practice what I have been told in the quran. As for sharia, I never told you I fear such. Justice is justice, and there can't be order without law.

Your version of Islam and ur weak explanations here goes to show u dont understand islam...real Islam is practised by the majority of wahhabis, salafiS even to some degree the shi'a and sunnis of Saudi Arabia. ..

Below is a pic from your sources on a taste of real Islam as practised by Mohammed.

Ifeann:


Your version of Islam and ur weak explanations here goes to show u dont understand islam...real Islam is practised by the majority of wahhabis, salafiS even to some degree the shi'a and sunnis of Saudi Arabia. ..

Below is a pic from your sources on a taste of real Islam as practised by Mohammed.

It is you who does not understand Islam. You have not read the quran. Do not post something that you randomly found. The true word can only be received from the quran so if you want to find something to condemn, read the quran and back your claims from what you find there. Anything else, I won't accept or bother to read.

Rich4god:
I dont really knw when the Nigerian constitution allow the killing of some1 for abusing a prophet cos countless pple have fallen victims to such act here in Nigeria. Even in Afgan/Pakistan, we have seen fanatics forcing their way into police station to pick out and kill victims who are under police protection cos they commited blasphemy...

Anyway, dont want us to continue argueing on this issue. Lets move on to my next question...

What is the Islamic stand on a muslim who converted to another religion. Is the person supposed to be killed or left alone...?

What is written on such people is:
"Neither the Jews nor the Christians will be pleased with you (O Muhammad) till you follow their millah. Say: “Surely, the guidance of God is the (true) guidance”. And if you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, then you would not have any protector or helper against God. (2:120)

But under shariah law,

The punishment for apostasy (riddah) is well-known in Islaamic Sharee’ah. The one who leaves Islaam will be asked to repent by the Sharee’ah judge in an Islaamic country; if he does not repent and come back to the true religion, he will be killed as a kaafir and apostate, because of the command of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3017).
(Islamqna.com)

There is NOTHING TO BE PROUD OF in your so-called religion, so don't flaunt it to the Christian folks. Islamists have done me great harm (as I was typing this I felt like crying) though JEHOVAH, my GOD ofcourse saved me. Thanks to him. GOD knows how DEEP the harm was to me. They are heinous!

Imagine a lecturer denying me my rightful marks because I AM CHRISTIAN

sameera025:


The quran doesn't state a punishment for such. Remember we are told to follow the rulings of the quran. What is written on such people is:
"Neither the Jews nor the Christians will be pleased with you (O Muhammad) till you follow their millah. Say: “Surely, the guidance of God is the (true) guidance”. And if you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, then you would not have any protector or helper against God. (2:120)
So, it says if you leave islam after practicing it then you will face God. So if anything I take this to mean they should be left for Allah to handle.

If truly what you are telling me is what the koran teaches... Then am sorry to say, you are the only muslim that i have come across... *dats if you do as you are telling me*
We all knw that muslims world wide will hunt and kill any one that denouces Islam... *dont ask me for proof, cos we have seen it and exp it*... Back in kano, I now how many pple my church have to send out of the diocese cos of threat to their life as a result of them denouncing islam.

So, i can still repeat my earlier statement... If what you are telling me is true... Then this current muslims are practicing another brand of Islam.

sbaks:
Imagine a lecturer denying me my rightful marks because I AM CHRISTIAN

lol... But guy, you knw say that one na personal beef btw two of una... So chill...