₦airaland Forum

Dadehmola:
In the fantasy squad posted earlier, You started blind at LB..with carrick as the DM - a testament to the fact that carrick is way better as a DM than the Dutchman!

Again, it seems you don't trust herrera In a pivot (or let's just say you prefer a 3-man CMF).

An experienced CB and a goal-scorer In addition to gundogan (that hin belle dey discourage me tho ) would do for next season IMO.

elampiro2:
When I newly come this thread, na me and you first talk about interceptions and tackle before any one else. You remember our Carrick and Hargreaves argument? But let's leave.

Dadehmola:
And I remember telling you that I couldn't find any "tacklers" in the scholes/carrick partnership which was arguably the best in Europe as at that time.

SailorXY:
you need to remember we'll enter for more competition next season, including player sales & LvG will be targeting being relevant @ the business end of those competitions. the squad must be improved for that to happen, not just the first 11.
besides, ain't a thing "fantasy" about projected acquisitions. all six players are very very possible & can be gotten from the £150m earmarked.

Dadehmola:
With LVG's inability to pinpoint his starting 11 so far (despite spending money on replacements,) I'd rather we approach the rebuilding process with caution. You seem to have forgotten that di Maria and RVP aren't even in our present starting 11 as we speak (me thinks the sudden resurgence of the players responsible for this shouldn't be rewarded with "axing" just yet).

And yes, it's a fantasy squad when you have atleast 80m worth of talent (new signings) on the bench without even kicking a ball!!

elampiro2:
[b]Now, let's even examine all Pogba's 7 games in the season he complained and left. What influence did he even have in the games?

Paul Pogba games in 2011/2012
1. CARLING CUP Tuesday 20 Sept 2011
Leeds 0 - 3 Man Utd........ He came on at 46 mins for Giggs when score was already 3-0.

2. CARLING CUP Tuesday 25 Oct 2011
Aldershot 0 - 3 Man Utd........ He came on at 60th minute for Cleverly when score was already at 3-0. Cleverly and Park played in midfield. Morrison came on for Diouf at 70th minute.

3. CARLING CUP Wednesday 30 Nov 2011
Man Utd 1 - 2 C Palace........ Pogba came on for Rafael at 76 minutes when score was 0-0. A minute later Palace scored us. He was the last substitute. Morrison came on for Berbatov at 46 minutes.

4. ENGLISH PREMIER Tuesday 31 Jan 2012
Man Utd 2 - 0 Stoke ...... Pogba came on for Hernadez at 73 minutes when score was 2-0. He was the only substitute in. Fabio, Radael, Giggs, Welbeck were on the bench.

5. ENGLISH PREMIER Sunday 11 Mar 2012
Man Utd 2 - 0 West Brom..... He came on for Scholes at 73 minutes when score was at already 2-0. Rafael, Giggs, Park and Berbatov were all unused substitutes.

6. EUROPA LEAGUE Thursday 15 Mar 2012
Ath Bilbao 2 - 1 Man Utd....... He went in for Carrick t 63 minutes when United trailed by 0-1. Scholes, Chicha and Fabio were unused substitutes.

7. ENGLISH PREMIER Sunday 18 Mar 2012
RESULT
Wolves 0 -5 Man.......... Pogba came on for Carrrick at 57 minutes when score stood at 4-0. Young, Park and Giggs were unused substitutes.



Any one who after reviewing the above info and still criticize SAF is an Ekwe Sample. Pogba knew for sure SAF was bringing him gradually into the first team even when he was not productive at the time. We should not forget also that 2011/2012 was a very hard two horse race where the best players needed to feature.
[/b]

I reviewed all our matches after the 5-0 win over Wolves, the substitutions and the circumstances. I beg Pogba didnt stand any chance with the quality and calibre of players who needed to be introduced to try and win matches.

The very next match Scholes, Cleverley, Berbatov and Hernadez were on the bench in our 1-0 win over Fulham. Giggs and Carrick played the match.

elampiro2:
It's also your opinion when you say Rafael is better than Valencia. And for every point you think Val made a wrong decision, I can bring a hundred right decisions he has made.

When Herrer and Mata didnt play, at least there were cries every where that they should be given a chance. I am yet to read where anyone has called for Rafael over Valencia. Even among my friends who are not United fans, they speak of their respect for Val. Even, at the time Mata was benched, he wasn't doing well. I am one of those who still think these guys (Carrick, Herrera, Mata and Fellaini) freshness is one of the advantages over other players. Next season help me reach a conclusion when everyone had to start afresh.

The Pogba stuff is a whole big issue I dont want to go into. SAF didnt make any mistake there. Pogba was not ready at the time [/b]and SAF had won matches with Fabio, Rafael, JS Park in midfield before. I saw Pogba in matches and his decision making was poor, although the potential and skills every evident. It's easy to say these things from hindsight today because Pogba is successful. There were dozen others who didn't get into the first team despite their promising start, but because they are not succesful, people dont talk about them anymore.

[b]At the beginning of last season, many felt SAF was foolish to have allowed Morrison to leave. It went on for a long spell. Now I dont hear about Morrison on this thread. Rafael did well for us against QPR, he switched off against Leicester then did well again. But when we played a high defence against West Brom, he was caught out of position twice. DDG had to rescue one of them in which the blame would have been directly his fault.

Kemizee:
You mean the same Pogba that literally walked and earned a permanent position in a midfield that was infinitely better than ours?A midfield comprising of Marchisio,Vidal and the legendary Pirlo.The same Pogba who is still a mainstay in that midfield till today.Not ready indeed!!

Sir Alex was a human being and made mistakes.He made a mistake with Pogba.You are talking about a player who cud not get game time in a shit midfield that comprised of the likes of Park,Fabio,Gibson,O Shea and an old and out of retirement Paul scholes brought back by Ferguson.
How was he not ready for Christ's sake?

All Pogba asked for was a bit more playing time and 40 thousand pounds(which is even toooo small wen u consider the obscene wages we pay shithouses like fellaini,young and your beloved Valencia.I dnt care wat Fergie did.He was wrong abt Pogba and deep down,u knw it evn tho u may want to deny so

tess1:
This doesn't prove anything other than eroding one's confidence. SAF couldn't even start him in any of the Carling Cup you listed there. All the guy needed at that time was a regular starting shirt to build his confidence.

It is simple, SAF made a mistake in his judgement about Pogba and made us lose the guy.

Kemizee:
You mean the same Pogba that literally walked and earned a permanent position in a midfield that was infinitely better than ours?A midfield comprising of Marchisio,Vidal and the legendary Pirlo.The same Pogba who is still a mainstay in that midfield till today.Not ready indeed!!

Sir Alex was a human being and made mistakes.He made a mistake with Pogba.You are talking about a player who cud not get game time in a shit midfield that comprised of the likes of Park,Fabio,Gibson,O Shea and an old and out of retirement Paul scholes brought back by Ferguson.
How was he not ready for Christ's sake?

All Pogba asked for was a bit more playing time and 40 thousand pounds(which is even toooo small wen u consider the obscene wages we pay shithouses like fellaini,young and your beloved Valencia.I dnt care wat Fergie did.He was wrong abt Pogba and deep down,u knw it evn tho u may want to deny so

elampiro2:
SAF did the right thing. SAF was trying to win the carling cup again after many years of failure. Cleverley did not even get this rapid promotion while coming up.

elampiro2:
Our midfield was far superior than Juventus midfield at the time. It was a midfield that played 3 UCL finals in 4 years beating AC Milan and Inter Milan which were far superior to Juventus in that period. The midfield that had won the EPL 4 times in 5years.

Secondly when did Pogba ask for abit more playing time? Give link and date to analyze the fixtures at the time. The Pogba I watched in my City room large screen TV was not ready. No be view Centre stretch neck. At the time HITV and DSTV shared fixtures I subscribed for both just to see all United matches. This not what I read about Pogba, his game was amateur compared to what others served.

elampiro2:
Our midfield was far superior than Juventus midfield at the time. It was a midfield that played 3 UCL finals in 4 years beating AC Milan and Inter Milan which were far superior to Juventus in that period. The midfield that had won the EPL 4 times in 5years.

Secondly when did Pogba ask for abit more playing time? Give link and date to analyze the fixtures at the time. The Pogba I watched in my City room large screen TV was not ready. No be view Centre stretch neck. At the time HITV and DSTV shared fixtures I subscribed for both just to see all United matches. This not what I read about Pogba, his game was amateur compared to what others served.

Kemizee:
In all seriousness, you have gotta be kidding me.I think you are confusing Sir Alex's man management and genius and crediting it with the midfield that was terribly thin and porous that even the likes of Everton players were continually linked with us.That's how bad our midfield was that someone like Fellaini was seen as a big upgrade.And to also remind you,Bayern,Real,Chelsea,Man city did not play in 2 UCL Finals and win as man titles at the time.Going by your logic,it means our midfield was superior to theirs.or maybe u av forgotten how good Alex Ferguson was that he could turn obertan and Anderson into decent players.

elampiro2:
Kemizee and Tess1, can you people beat you chest that you called for Pogba to be started in games ahead of Scholes, Carrick, Giggs, Cleverley and Anderson in our title chase of 2011/2012? If you wrote such anywhere, provide the evidence or forever remain silent.

I think I had to quit this now.

Kemizee:
Elampiro..the issue is not about starting regularly.It was about showing the boy that you want him and want to keep him.How else do u dt apart frm playing him more often and giving him a good deal.

Kemizee:
is not frm England.He is not sentimentally attached to Man United.He is a frenchman.Most footballers are not anyway and play for s money.

Kemizee:
.So y do u relegate him and keep persisting wid shitholes like Anderson and Cleverley.To anyone claiming dt Pogba was not ready..I hope they do know dt Pogba joined Juve and became an instant hit.

Kemizee:
Hw was he not ready Scholes and Giggs had reached their end.We needed to replace dem and dt was one of my greatest gripes wid Fergie.

Kemizee:
Overloyalty and sentimental to our oldheads (Giggs, Scholes, Carrick , Fletcher Evra etc, Even Gary Neville had to retire himself cos Fergie overused him).

Kemizee:
.Av said it and maintain dt part of d reason our midfield was in such a mess is dt Ferguson refused to plan for d d future and was still heavily reliant dt his Old guard cud go on and on and on.We were humiliated by Barca in Rome 2009 and Fergie said we wud b at dt level d next year.Guess wat happened in Wembley 2011? He went in again wid his favorite sons and giggs cud barely touch d ball never mind tracking down Xavi amd Iniesta cos d energy was gone.

Kemizee:
Poga was 100% ready.Fergie jst loved his old boys more and him leaving proves dt he was ready.If u say he isn't ready..den tell us any of our midfielders who is more highly rated in world football currently as Paul Pogba (demand and Potential transfer fee) and Dnt start wid Di Maria as I class him as a winger and not a midfielder. I Knw its sad to admit hw good Pogba wud av been for us.And he is barely 21 . Anyone who says odawise probably doesn't watch him often.D lad is pure class and fergie shud av sucked up his pride and signed up d damn modafucker to a long contract

tess1:
Read my response up there.

Yes i was expecting his integration in 2011/12 after seeing him in the U18 FA Cup competition.

tess1:
SAF also said that he'll be playing him.

tess1:
Cleverley just came back from loan at Wigan and Anderson was Injury prone.

tess1:
He should have give him some matches to start. Nobody is saying he should play even half of he match. If he had started about ten matches out of all the matches we played in that season, i'm sure he wouldn't have left.

tess1:
He can not be so worse not to have played against Blackburn where a RB Rafael was preferred in the midfield. Can he be that bad?

elampiro2:
Provide evidence.

SAF said he was going to be promoted that season. Then SAF actually promoted him. Then SAF tested him with some matches and he wasn't convinced he was ready to take the risk of starting him.

Anderson and Cleverley were in our midfield in the preseason when we beat Barca. We started the season with these two guys and they were part of the team which gave us the best start to a season as far as my memory can remember. Then Carrick and Fletcher took over before Giggs joined.

The team that beat Barca: De Gea; Rafael (Fabio, 17), Vidic, (Jones, 76) Evans, Evra (Smalling, ht); Nani, Cleverley, Anderson (Giggs, ht), Young (Obertan, 62); Rooney (Owen, ht), Welbeck (Diouf, 77). Subs not used: Lindegaard, Amos, Jones, Ferdinand, Carrick, Park, Berbatov, Macheda.

You must have forgotten what was at stake at the time to be promoting a rookie with the benefit of hindsight. Pogba had his chance but he didnt convince the manager that he was ready. That was my judgement too.

Park, Fabio and Rafael had won us matches before playing out of position. They even beat Arsenal. SAF played tested players.

elampiro2:
How to know when a player is ready. The competitors around just give up. The coach is happy to throw you into games.




..........................................................
Gary Neville gives approval to successor Rafael

Wednesday 09 February 2011

Gary Neville is convinced his coveted right-back role at Manchester United is in safe hands.

Neville announced his retirement from the game last week after finally admitting defeat in his battle with injury.

elampiro2:
"I understand that people were surprised that I refused to extend my contract with Manchester United," Pogba told L'Equipe. "But Manchester United and Juventus are the same - they are two great clubs.

"There were things which we [Pogba and Manchester United] did not agree on but I don’t regret anything. I learned a lot there.

"The coach [Ferguson] trusted me, but he didn't play me, he said I was too young. He told me 'Your time will come', but it didn’t come. Despite the fact that he is the boss, my goal was to play.

"He said I disrespected him. I do not know why he said that. A 19-year-old who says no [to him], maybe he was stuck. But for me, it will not change anything. This is not to say that I will speak ill of Manchester. I love this club.

- Pogba.

Boss set to promote Pogba

Sir Alex has revealed he is promoting Paul Pogba to the first-team squad after being impressed with the FA Youth Cup-winning midfielder.

The 18-year-old Frenchman replaced Paul Scholes in the Reds legend's testimonial against New York Cosmos and is in the manager's thoughts ahead of the new season. The youngsters at Old Trafford have ensured the manager is in a relaxed mood about his squad ahead of the transfer window closing at the end of the month.

"We've got Darren Fletcher to come back," explained Sir Alex. "Michael Carrick, who tends to develop more around November/December. And we’ve got a young boy Pogba who's showing great promise for us. He came on in a couple of games in terms of progress with the youth team, we’re quite positive about him.

"I mean if we hold Pogba back, what’s going to happen? He’s going to leave.

You know, in a couple of years’ time when his contract is going to finish. So we have to give him the opportunity to see how he can do in the first-team and he’s got great ability, plus he’s got the physique and athleticism.

"He is a possibility so, when you take that roll call of players you know, I’m certainly not looking to add anybody. I’ve been saying that for weeks, but you’ve all been writing differently, you’ve all been writing about how I’m going to buy this one, I’m going to buy that one but we’ve said nothing, I’m carrying on with business."

When asked directly if everybody can forget about Wesley Sneijder arriving from Inter Milan, he replied: "You can forget about anyone you like! I’m happy with the young players we’ve got."

In terms of whether the likes of Tom Cleverley, Pogba, and possibly Ravel Morrison and Ryan Tunnicliffe, when he returns from Peterborough, can push the existing first-team midfielders, the manager is realistic about the situation.

tess1:
What evidence? Evidence of his performances when he won U18 FA Cup or what?

tess1:
I thought you said SAF never promised him. So you now agree that he was promised.

tess1:
Yeah, i am not disputing the fact that Anderson and Cleverly were blazing during preseason and the start of the season. When injuries set in for the duo and Carrick, why didn't SAF call on Pogba instead of playing Giggs, Rafael and Park in the midfield.

tess1:
Or are these not the same players that injuries ruin their season then. For you to even include Fletcher who had Ulcerative Colitus then and only played 644 mins because of injury shows that you really watched our matches in your big sitting room. .

tess1:
Anderson 690 mins and Cleverley 433 mins. The trio of your good midfielders couldn't even muster 2000 mins because of one injury or the other. Whereas Pogba was sitting on the bench without even starting a match.
It's funny that you count them to be our main midfielders in that season.

tess1:
That's your judgement. You are entitled to that. SAF didn't trust him enough despite promising him some game time. That's a big mistake by him. The risk that he could not take, Juve took it and they are enjoying it now. Where's our midfield now?
That doesn't make it right. Playing players out of position is not good when you have a proper player for that position. We all saw how playing players out of positions affected us last season and at the beginning of his season.

tess1:
This confirms it. He left because SAF didn't play him despite promising him playing time.



Source: http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2011/Aug/ferguson-to-promote-pogba.aspx

This is my last post on this. I'm not here for a long-drawn argument.

Good night.

chrisley024:
Your guys should chill. Pogba is off to PSG