₦airaland Forum

NigerMan1:
stinggy - please do not lump my posts here with anyone.

I did not form an alliance with anyone. Sometimes you Yorubas think others think or do like you!

Na una dey form mob dey either abuse person, or follow herd mentality when history is put forward. Please excuse the "...as posited by you people" from me.

Would you point some examples out from my earlier posts here?
And this might be where I drop any form of argument with you. Pls believe whatever sweetens your belly, it changes nothing, nor the facts that I know.

Ciao!

NigerMan1:
stinggy - you rushed to conclude the Ilajes are "Yoruba" when we all know that the word "Yoruba" was used to group people who spoke similar language as the Oyo in the Mid 19th Century. What you failed to tell us, is what is the ANCESTRY of the Ilajes?

What is the ANCESTRY of many other tribes known as Yoruba today?

You wrote: "Ilajes are Yorubas who found their selves surrounded by Ijaws

You are fast in eliminating the influence of the Ijaw while claiming they are Yoruba. How did the Ijaw surrounded them, or do you want to claim the Ijaws are aliens on that land? What is the origin of the word "Yoruba"?

Your argument fails on so many fronts.
Yoruba used to group people who spoke something similar to Oyo? Really
Show me any similarity between Oyo language and Ijebu, Oyo language and Igbomina.

And what is the ancestry of Igboho Yorubas whose neighours are Tapas/Nupes? Or would you argue they are not Yorubas?
War unsettled most of these Yoruba groups you see scattered around. So many of their founders take off to avoid some kind of punishment and wherever they found their selves is where they settled at.

NigerMan1:
No my broda. Please carefully read the account of Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe. Even some Onitsha people alluded to this fact.

I
know what you are saying but not all clans are umu EZE Chima in onitsha and eze chima is an igbo that was on reverse migration but that is a different topic


Now I am trying to fix the loops in oduduwa. Story and I am an admirer of your postulation

NigerMan1:
MrPresident1 - thanks for your contribution. I thought you'll have a 'masterclass' contribution because I remember your folks invited you to come and tackle. Bro you fall hand o!

You wrote: "I have gone through all your posts Nigerman1, it is you who is full of bitterness toward the Yoruba for 'distorting' Benin history and 'claiming superiority' over other tribes. I dare you to go through your own posts again and give yourself a fair assessment. You are the one who is filled with bitterness."

Over the few decades, through my experience with most tribes, ethnic groups and languages in Nigeria, I discovered that SELF-HATE and Bitterness are actually a RESIDUE among most Yorubas. It is very difficult to found a Yorubaman who mediates between his kinsmen and another tribe, without being BIASED.

You said "I have gone through all your posts" and concluded am full of bitterness? Am still at a loss why I should be bitter? For rejecting your wild claims, lies about Benin history and putting forth facts and figures now make me BITTER? Nawa o!

And to show how biased you are, you failed to see your fellow Yorubas using foul languages as you did in this post? Some of them described Benin history as "Crap"? About two guys called others as "a waste" - yet you did not mention those!

As for 'claiming superiority' I did justice to provide evidence of that, why did you failed to notice? Bro 'claiming superiority' has become an integral part of daily Yoruba social cultures which is affecting most of you today. For example; claiming you're the "most educated, or have more PhD or Professors in Nigeria" and when someone proved you WRONG with facts and statistic, you responded with INSULTS - just as you did in this post.

How do you describe this: An Edo person meet a Yoruba (even the starkest of Yoruba) and the Yoruba person spew to the Edo person face that "Edos are yoruba?" And this maybe a Yorubaman who did not even know the name of his great, great grand father! When you try to correct him or argue with him, he either insult you or dismiss you flippantly. Why do your people behave like this - with utter disrespect for Edo people?

Moreover, you're NOT qualified to judge me at all. You're clearly on the opposing camp, so maintain your stance and leave the Discourse purely for INTELLECTUAL exchanges.


You wrote: "I do not like to indulge in this kind or arguments because they throw up histories that divide rather than promote unity, but suffice it to say that Bini came from Oduduwa. Bini is one of the children of the woman who fled Roman persecution in the East. Yoruba history is not Dogma, if you dig deeper, you will encounter what you do not like, so for everyman who makes the discoveries, for the sake of peace, you either keep quiet, or surreptitiously point the way for the keen observer with true motives to come to the same deductions as you have come.

No you do love "to indulge in this kind or arguments" my friend and your posts show you're veteran.

Or do you want me to believe you're saying this for the first time in your life? Yes, history should not DIVIDE a people, if such stories are based on pure facts and mutual respects. You the Yorubas began the journey of History distortions, manipulations to obtain social and political positions. In the event of this, you inadvertently attacked Benin history.

And what is this, "...suffice it to say that Bini came from Oduduwa. Bini is one of the children of the woman who fled Roman persecution in the East?" Yet another version of your unending "Yoruba History".


You wrote: "I do not think, however, that you have the presence of mind or the trueness of intentions to make the deductions I speak of, because you are full of bitterness"

Hmmm! What a post! Yorubaman, where else can one found persons who are naturally trained from the cradle, to throw dirty jab at another person publicly? It must be from Yorubaland - the land where mothers, fathers and elders teach kids satanic languages like:

"Omo ale",

"ori e oda, ori e ope",

"awon omoran kinran",

"iwo eranko lasan lasan,"

"koni da fun baba e",

"koni ye kale",

"oloshi buruku"

"awon eranko lasan lasan"


You wrote: " In one breath you tell me you love my post, in another breath you call it mumbo jumbo, I hope you will objectively agree with me in my assessment of you, that you are someone whose mind is a mishmash of garbage. A littered mind, cluttered and disjointed with all kinds of rabble-rousing wosi-wosi. You and Naiwu are pseudo intellectual history revisionists, and you have jammed rock"

You seemed to really hate Naiwu so much o! Wetin be him offense sef? Haba, so he's not a qualified historian, but your own Yoruba historians are world standard? Hey, na wa o - top class HYPOCRISY.


You wrote: 'Yoruba' and Bini should never have issues of superiority between them, because they are brothers. But later day historian-revisionists like you and Osahon Naiwu will stop at nothing to sever the cord of brotherhood"

What exactly is there to revise? You claimed Yoruba History is not DOGMA - yet you're fighting tooth and nail to retain fables, folklores and a web of mythologies as FACTS? Let's assume they are facts; true history must be challenged, refreshed, investigated, revisited, add and subtracted, continuous research etc - to be regarded as history. Otherwise it's DOGMA!

Nice. Observation

TonySpike:
I suspect Nigerman1 and tonychristopher are one and the same person. I personally don't trust tonychristopher's antecedents on this forum for a start. He goes unstable at topics regarding Yoruba history; he takes it on himself to determine issues of Yoruba history

Ad hominen bacculum

That's a course in philopsophy and logic

You are leaving the subject matter and attacking origin
G
Is that how you make intellectual submission

Wulfruna:
Not very likely. NigerMan1 is a lot more coherent than Tonychristopher.

I am not him and I was typing with my phone and busy with some stuffs in office so I tried to point out loopeholes not make an international submission

Thanks for noting

9jacrip:
Ibos of course, I have no reason to be sneaky.

IGBOS have nothing to do with this ...this is an intellectual discussion and if igbo revised anything in Yoruba history tackle it with superior argument and postulates


But we are doing this so that we and unborn kids will know the truth and that of oduduwa myth ....it's a myth and not a fact


So leave igbo out of this


Do you know that igbo can claim oduduwa is an igbo with very superior argument so what you do is puncture that with better submissions

That's how to debate and lay bare facts

9jacrip:
You're not very bright.

There was never a Benin conquest in Lagos, what you see as a conquest was rather a diplomatic agreement between the two. Benin only set up war camps, hence, military occupation.

From your source of 'facts':



Your source, despite being poorly writ, managed to provide answers to some of your questions. You could have discovered these answers if you had not let the 'nor be yoruba own Lagos' struggle paralyze your mind.

Furthermore:



There goes another answer but there is more, just hold on tight.

From: http://www.oshodi.org/history/lagosians.html

According to the ‘Idejo” source-they, the Bini people, did not conquer them- they were invaded to settle disputes among the sons of Olofin. According to this source, the facts that the Obas of Lagos ‘owned’ no land in Lagos which is disposed of exclusively by the Yoruba Idejo chiefs, and that the Idejo chiefs did not perform any administrative duties on behalf of the Oba and took to the mainland in time of war leaving the Oba to defend Lagos, do not suggest an original Benin conquest.


From: http://www.oniruroyalfamily.org/index.php/history

Among the children who first arrived and possessed lands wereAROMIRE, OLOTO, ONIRU, OLUWA, OJORA, ONIKOYI, ONITANA, OLUMEGBON, ONITOLO, ELEGUSHI and ONISIWO. They are the ancestors of the Idejo chiefs, the oldest chieftaincy on the island and their rights over their land holdings were recognized by the Obas (kings) of Lagos, when that institution was created by the Oba of Benin.

Another: http://lawaspire.com.ng/2014/06/chief-adesina-jinadu-ors-v-chief-israel-esurombi-aro-anor-2/

4. The Ojora Chieftaincy Family is one of the Idejo Land owning Chieftaincy Families of Lagos and its traditional head is the Chief Ojora, a Lagos Idejo White Cap Chief.

5. The whole of the land originally owned by the Ojora Chieftaincy Family (hereinafter referred to as the Ojora Land) were known generally as Iganmu and have been in the possession of the said family (sic) from time immemorial and is bounded on the East by the Lagos Lagoon and part of Lagos Island and Ebute-Metta; on the North by the land of Oloto Chieftaincy Family Abebe Creek, Iguru Swamp and Itire Land; on the West by the land of Amuwo and of Alahun and on the South by the land of the Oluwa Chieftaincy Family, and more particularly shown on a plan dated December 1918 made by Herbert Macaulay (now deceased.)"

The Oba of Lagos' power now extends beyond Lagos island as the permanent head of Oba's council in Lagos but he can only influence decisions outside Lagos Island not necessary 'order a decision'.

I have tried to avoid engaging you because the issues you raise could easily be answered by hitting google but tonight you forced my hands. You're lucky google books seem not to be working. Read what is up there and remind me what your questions were again or you want to prove to know more than the Idejo themselves?

The sudden interest you and your team of Ibo revisionists have in Yoruba history is becoming disgusting, you all should focus more on your history and extend it towards pre-1967.

Bro, your efforts to diminish the Benin rulership of old Lagos and installing Benin Prince and Chiefs is an attempt in futility.


Your wrote: "Your source, despite being poorly writ, managed to provide answers to some of your questions. You could have discovered these answers if you had not let the 'nor be yoruba own Lagos' struggle paralyze your mind."

I deliberately refrain from using more credible source to avoid you Yorubas denying it. Now the source I quoted is on the Lagos State Government official website - so why are you denying it?

You said it is poorly written, haba my friend. Why don't you go meet Governor Fashola to re-write it? Believe you me, you made a huge mistake by saying this, "nor be yoruba own Lagos' struggle paralyze your mind" - I repeat no Edo person is claiming Lagos as his own. You guys should calm down, we are discussing HISTORY not ownership. We are discussing ANCESTRY, not modern day ownership.

And also, remember if you're NOT Awori, Epe or Badagry, then you a MIGRANT to Lagos. You have no ancestral palimony in Lagos.

As for your other source: I than you for all the good works, however my issue about old Lagos is this:

(a) That Benin King ruled Lagos;
(b) The Benin King installed a Benin Prince as the Oba of Lagos;
(c) That Benin King installed Benin Chiefs, one of whom was Chief Obanikoro;
(d) And that... both the modern day Oba of Lagos and Obanikoro families are DESCENDANTS of Benin.

Just agreed on those 4 facts, am okay.

Every other things you guys are saying remain unnecessary, and you can continue to DISTORT some aspect of the facts to suit your whims and caprice. The above 4 facts remain UNASSAILABLE.

9jacrip:
Wherever it is you're from, open threads on its history and I will not only trounce you but school you to your own history.

Better get a grip quickly.

9jacrip - stop sounding as if HISTORY discourse is a wrestling match.

Am an EDO man to the core!

For me, history is 100% academic and scholarly work - not a chest beating context; not for grandstanding; not for propaganda as you Yorubas have been, unfortunately made to believe.

stinggy:
Your argument fails on so many fronts.
Yoruba used to group people who spoke something similar to Oyo? Really
Show me any similarity between Oyo language and Ijebu, Oyo language and Igbomina.

And what is the ancestry of Igboho Yorubas whose neighours are Tapas/Nupes? Or would you argue they are not Yorubas?
War unsettled most of these Yoruba groups you see scattered around. So many of their founders take off to avoid some kind of punishment and wherever they found their selves is where they settled at.

You keep harping on the word "YORUBA" while subtly remaking my core points to pamper your argument.
Yes - they are all Yorubas in the modern day. Agreed. But answer these:

1) When was the word "Yoruba" first used?

2) What is the ANCESTRY of the whole being called and described as Yoruba today?

tonychristopher:
I
know what you are saying but not all clans are umu EZE Chima in onitsha and eze chima is an igbo that was on reverse migration but that is a different topic


Now I am trying to fix the loops in oduduwa. Story and I am an admirer of your postulation

tonychristopher - yes you are right. You know Onitsha, like any other communities in the present day world, attracted many different migrants over centuries and MIXED together to form a whole. However that does not vanguish the influece and ANCESTRY of Benin in parts of Igboland today. In fact, the Obi of Onitsha is partly Benin.

However let me say that not only Dr Azikiwe discovered and published their findings.

Do you know the great ICT scholar, Dr Philip Emeagwali ? Read what he said below:
------------------------

"I was born in Akure, (miwestern region) and Igbo by heritage. As a native Onitsha Igbo, I trace my ancestry to Eze Chima, a prince who rebelled against the Benin royal dynasty and emigrated from the kingdom.

"Other Igbos that trace their lineage to Eze Chima include Onicha-Ukwu, Onicha-Olona, Onicha-Ugbo, Obior, Issele-Ukwu, Issele-Mkpima, Issele-Azagba, Ezi, Abeh and Obamkpa.Native Onitshans speak a dialect of the Igbo language with several Benin/Yoruba words such as "Obi" (of Onitsha) and "Oba" (of Benin). In fact, the word Onitsha (Onicha) is a corruption of the god "Orisha."

"The bini name for River Niger is Ohinmwin. The Onicha Igbo call it "Orinmili." In a few years, we will have DNA tests that proves (or disproves) the Onitsha-Benin-Yoruba connection. In fact, a lost dialect of the Yoruba language, called Olukwumu, is spoken in Brazil and in a few Igbo communities named Anioma, Idumu-Ogu, Ubulubu, Ugboba, Ugbodu, and Ukwunzu (M. A. Onwuejeogwu, 1987 Ahiajoku Lecture). The absence Olukwumu in core Yoruba land proves that these communities are the Lost Yoruba Tribe that were fleeing from slave raiders.

” – Source – from his official web 2011

NigerMan1:
tonychristopher - yes you are right. You know Onitsha, like any other communities in the present day world, attracted many different migrants over centuries and MIXED together to form a whole. However that does not vanguish the influece and ANCESTRY of Benin in parts of Igboland today. In fact, the Obi of Onitsha is partly Benin.

However let me say that not only Dr Azikiwe discovered and published their findings.

Do you know the great ICT scholar, Dr Philip Emeagwali ? Read what he said below:
------------------------

"I was born in Akure, (miwestern region) and Igbo by heritage. As a native Onitsha Igbo, I trace my ancestry to Eze Chima, a prince who rebelled against the Benin royal dynasty and emigrated from the kingdom.

"Other Igbos that trace their lineage to Eze Chima include Onicha-Ukwu, Onicha-Olona, Onicha-Ugbo, Obior, Issele-Ukwu, Issele-Mkpima, Issele-Azagba, Ezi, Abeh and Obamkpa.Native Onitshans speak a dialect of the Igbo language with several Benin/Yoruba words such as "Obi" (of Onitsha) and "Oba" (of Benin). In fact, the word Onitsha (Onicha) is a corruption of the god "Orisha."

"The bini name for River Niger is Ohinmwin. The Onicha Igbo call it "Orinmili." In a few years, we will have DNA tests that proves (or disproves) the Onitsha-Benin-Yoruba connection. In fact, a lost dialect of the Yoruba language, called Olukwumu, is spoken in Brazil and in a few Igbo communities named Anioma, Idumu-Ogu, Ubulubu, Ugboba, Ugbodu, and Ukwunzu (M. A. Onwuejeogwu, 1987 Ahiajoku Lecture). The absence Olukwumu in core Yoruba land proves that these communities are the Lost Yoruba Tribe that were fleeing from slave raiders.

” – Source – from his official web 2011

Yes we all came from somewhere and orimili is an igbo term for big water and onitsha is beside big water

If EZE chima is edo ...can you tell us the edo name
we know oduduwa edo name so tell us

But I do not dispute edo. Influence migration and culture is peripheral part of igbo land

I concur with u

NigerMan1:
9jacrip - stop sounding as if HISTORY discourse is a wrestling match.

Am an EDO man to the core!

For me, history is 100% academic and scholarly work - not a chest beating context; not for grandstanding; not for propaganda as you Yorubas have been, unfortunately made to believe.

Congratulations on being Edo but gain, you've again shown you're not too brigh

History, despite having its root in acadmia can be used as a tool of propaganda and grandstanding - ask the ibo about Biafra war and they'd tell you N.Army did not shoot a single Biafran fly until Britain, Soviet Union and Egypt got involved LOL!

Yoruba take a sense of pride in their history very much and an average Yoruba has interest in Yoruba history. Thus, you cannot be mad at the nationalist emotions that come with it.

Just deal with it sir.

NigerMan1:
Bro, your efforts to diminish the Benin rulership of old Lagos and installing Benin Prince and Chiefs is an attempt in futility.


Your wrote: "Your source, despite being poorly writ, managed to provide answers to some of your questions. You could have discovered these answers if you had not let the 'nor be yoruba own Lagos' struggle paralyze your mind."

I deliberately refrain from using more credible source to avoid you Yorubas denying it. Now the source I quoted is on the Lagos State Government official website - so why are you denying it?

You said it is poorly written, haba my friend. Why don't you go meet Governor Fashola to re-write it? Believe you me, you made a huge mistake by saying this, "nor be yoruba own Lagos' struggle paralyze your mind" - I repeat no Edo person is claiming Lagos as his own. You guys should calm down, we are discussing HISTORY not ownership. We are discussing ANCESTRY, not modern day ownership.

And also, remember if you're NOT Awori, Epe or Badagry, then you a MIGRANT to Lagos. You have no ancestral palimony in Lagos.

As for your other source: I than you for all the good works, however my issue about old Lagos is this:

(a) That Benin King ruled Lagos;
(b) The Benin King installed a Benin Prince as the Oba of Lagos;
(c) That Benin King installed Benin Chiefs, one of whom was Chief Obanikoro;
(d) And that... both the modern day Oba of Lagos and Obanikoro families are DESCENDANTS of Benin.

Just agreed on those 4 facts, am okay.

Every other things you guys are saying remain unnecessary, and you can continue to DISTORT some aspect of the facts to suit your whims and caprice. The above 4 facts remain UNASSAILABLE.

I was not trying to diminish, who am I to do that in the face of glaring facts found in similarity of Obaship between Eko and Benin?

It is you who needs to calm down with the sense of pride of Benin holding sway in Lagos Island for a short period.

You need to first understand that the Idejo factor cannot be brushed aside or downplayed, it is staring you in the face, admit it.

You also need to research and you'll find that Eleko was originally an Oba of Eko (island) and in recent times made the paramount head of lagos oba council with ability to 'influence' politics but his palace/subject choices remain within Eko (island).

You also need to get the fact that the Idejo are first class kings, like Oba of Lagos. They have their domains and hold full sway on their subjects without any subjection to Eleko.

You also need to get the fact that Eleko does not hold any land in Lagos. He was originally an extension of Benin king and plays roles accompanying such a position.

You also need to know that the throne the idejo see as the representation of their father (Olofin) is that of the Oloto not the Eko seat.

To answer your question:

1. According to your Lagos website source, Benin King and his representation in Lagos did not rule entire Lagos (as it is now), your source and many others say he did not rule beyond Eko which is Lagos Island surrounded by pepper farm and nobody lived there.

Until the coming of the Bini's, Lagos's geographic boundary was what is known now as Lagos Mainland. Lagos Island, the seat of the Oba of Lagos then consisted of a pepper farm and fishing posts. No one lived there though. The name Eko was given to it by its first King Oba Ado during its early history, it also saw periods of rule by the Kingdom of Benin. Eko was the land area now known as Lagos Island where the king's palace was built. The Palace is called Iga Idunganran which, translated means Palace built on the pepper farm. Oba Ado and the warriors from Benin as well as some of the indigenous people who sought safety settled down in the southern part of Eko called "Isale Eko", Isale literarily meaning bottom, but must have been used to indicate downtown (as in Downtown Lagos).

2. Indeed, no denying this but Benin's direct influence on Eko (Lagos Island) waned completely after Ado's son - Gabaro.

3. He sent chiefs to help Ado, yes. And names of such chiefs exist today, no one has disputed that. The question is, how many of these chiefs are palace chiefs today and play the roles outlined by Oba Benin?

4. Modern day Oba of Eko from Akinsemoyin has shed its Benin ancestry to a very large extent. Let me remind you that Ologun Kutere line has Ijesa ancestry (surprised?) Apart from the paraphernalia of the Oba and some processes of installing the Oba, every other aspect of Obaship in Lagos has its core in Yoruba.

Let me give you an insider's information; the Akinsemoyin and Ologun Kutere mostly inter marry with the Idejo groups such as Ojora, Elegushi, Oniru that you'd find most of these Idejo folks claiming to be prince(ss) even if its through maternal line. An example: after Oba Oyekan passed, his written recommendation was for an Ojora to be the next king (he is also from Ologun Kutere as well as Ojora line). The throne has been so bombarded by Yoruba that you'll wonder how strong Benin influence originally was.

You'll wonder how I know these things even though I'm not from Lagos. Firstly, Yoruba folks are always welcomed to be involved in anything going on in any part of Yoruba land - as a Historian I seized the opportunity to ask questions and as an awo, I seized the opportunity to mix up with the awo from the palace - just last two weeks, I was with the Balogun and Ogboni from the palace. So do not be surprised if I go to Benin palace and mingle thoroughly and even give you information you've never heard before.

tonychristopher:
IGBOS have nothing to do with this ...this is an intellectual discussion and if igbo revised anything in Yoruba history tackle it with superior argument and postulates


But we are doing this so that we and unborn kids will know the truth and that of oduduwa myth ....it's a myth and not a fact


So leave igbo out of this


Do you know that igbo can claim oduduwa is an igbo with very superior argument so what you do is puncture that with better submissions

That's how to debate and lay bare facts

Lol alright, I hear you.

But you do know some submissions are better left to pass because they do are not worthy of a thorough response?

In every nonesensical Submission there is sense in it, so we learn in funny ways just as we are doing here.../

9jacrip:
Lol alright, I hear you.

But you do know some submissions are better left to pass because they do are not worthy of a thorough response?

Yes, I can shed some light on the connection with Lagos, which was a colony of Benin for many years, ruled by Edo viceroys. The modern name Lagos was derived from one used by Portuguese explorers - "Lago di Kuramo".

But the original Edo name for Lagos is "Eko". Oba Orhogbua, who had earlier been educated and baptised at a Portuguese school in Benin, founded it as a prisoner-of-war camp in the 16th century. [Orhogbua was the son of Esigie]

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Because of a falsely rumored coup back home he returned to Benin from where he dispatched his grandson Esikpa to return to become the first Eleko of Eko. Esikpa was himself succeeded by his sons Edo and Guobaro respectively.

Beginning with Esikpa, most Elekos had their remains returned to Benin for interment. [Chiefs of Badagry were also buried in Benin.] Shortly after the amalgamation of North and South in 1914 there was a brief Eleko crisis in Lagos when indigenes demanded a reestablishment of their traditional monarchy. In 1915, responding to requests by Lagos indigenes, Iyase Obaseki and Obazuaye were dispatched by Oba Eweka II to testify about the Edo antecedents of the Lagos Monarchy.

To this day, many genuine traditional titles in Lagos are Edo titles. There is a direct blood link between the royal families of Lagos and
Benin. And if you pay very close attention, Edos are very prominent and successful in Lagos life. A fair number of "Lagosians" have Edo heritage even though a large number have acculturated their names with the Yoruba majority.

You can verify this information from the Palace of Oba Oyekan.

9jacrip:
Lol alright, I hear you.

But you do know some submissions are better left to pass because they do are not worthy of a thorough response?

The names you have listed are compounded. Remember that in Edo language, sentences or phrases tend to coalesce into single words with the vowels elided or euphonic letters inserted, making it difficult to determine the precise words, which are the component parts of such a phrase. The first four letters "Idun" could have been shortened from Idunwun meaning "district" or "area" or "section".


Thus:
"IDUNMAGBO" would be district of 'magbo'.
"IDUNGANRAN" would be district of 'ganran'
"IDUNMOTA" would be district of 'mota'
"IDUNTAFA" would be district of 'tafa'


Nigeria: Living Room


The meanings of 'magbo', 'ganran', 'mota' and 'tafa' will be difficult to pin down precisely now but could have been shortened from any one of numerous Edo names - probably names of Warrior settlers or other such relationships. They might even be names of villages or village groups conquered and brought into Eko - the prisoner of war camp. Either explanation would make sense because the names you have provided are mostly districts in Eko (now Lagos).

The second possibility is that the first three letters stand for "Idu......" where Idu stands for a well known ancient Bini idol.

There is a whole vocabulary of old Edo that relates to architectural and other technical items (including weapons and military formations). I may need to check on this to really know whether there are other meanings not only for the Idun... words, There are several members of the royal family on the list. I am copying this message to them.

Stay in touch. We will certainly call on you to get materials for such a link to celebrate our ancestral ties.

There is much to be re-discovered.

whitecat1:
Oshodi is a family name.

Lekki = Swamp

Idumagbo = Ram/Agbo station(someone just told me this right now)

Idumota = Imota annex, Imota town in the outskirt of the state

Eko/Erekosu = Island

If Benin have the gut let them come and point to one thing that remotely looks theirs in Lagos. The only thing we have with them is there are some Yoruba people cut in to Edo when states were created other than our son ruling over them as their first Oba!

Yoruba colonized benin, if not, you won't be seeing Edo people bear Yoruba name. You will never find a Yoruba with benin name, never!

tonychristopher:
Yes, I can shed some light on the connection with Lagos, which was a colony of Benin for many years, ruled by Edo viceroys. The modern name Lagos was derived from one used by Portuguese explorers - "Lago di Kuramo".

But the original Edo name for Lagos is "Eko". Oba Orhogbua, who had earlier been educated and baptised at a Portuguese school in Benin, founded it as a prisoner-of-war camp in the 16th century. [Orhogbua was the son of Esigie]

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Because of a falsely rumored coup back home he returned to Benin from where he dispatched his grandson Esikpa to return to become the first Eleko of Eko. Esikpa was himself succeeded by his sons Edo and Guobaro respectively.

Beginning with Esikpa, most Elekos had their remains returned to Benin for interment. [Chiefs of Badagry were also buried in Benin.] Shortly after the amalgamation of North and South in 1914 there was a brief Eleko crisis in Lagos when indigenes demanded a reestablishment of their traditional monarchy. In 1915, responding to requests by Lagos indigenes, Iyase Obaseki and Obazuaye were dispatched by Oba Eweka II to testify about the Edo antecedents of the Lagos Monarchy.

To this day, many genuine traditional titles in Lagos are Edo titles. There is a direct blood link between the royal families of Lagos and
Benin. And if you pay very close attention, Edos are very prominent and successful in Lagos life. A fair number of "Lagosians" have Edo heritage even though a large number have acculturated their names with the Yoruba majority.

You can verify this information from the Palace of Oba Oyekan.

@ the emboldened: do us the favour of listing these traditional chiefs

chuna1985:
Bini people came to Lagos first.

Ok bt kindly furnish the records, the Bini descendants in Lagos who's ancestors came before the Awori
If you can't I have to call this what it is - trash

9jacrip:
Congratulations on being Edo but gain, you've again shown you're not too brigh

History, despite having its root in acadmia can be used as a tool of propaganda and grandstanding - ask the ibo about Biafra war and they'd tell you N.Army did not shoot a single Biafran fly until Britain, Soviet Union and Egypt got involved LOL!

Yoruba take a sense of pride in their history very much and an average Yoruba has interest in Yoruba history. Thus, you cannot be mad at the nationalist emotions that come with it.

Just deal with it sir.

What really is the problem of Yoruba youths of this age? You guys need to re-create yourself to overcome innate phobia and fireball of hatred for the Igbo from your subsconscious minds. All along you took me for an Igbo, while 'off siding' the content and principle of the discourse. It's a pity.

More often than not, you people draw the first blood and when confronted with facts, you replied with barrage of insults and abuse, and you do this shameful acts even when the topic is national or HISTORY.

You wrote: "History, despite having its root in acadmia can be used as a tool of propaganda and grandstanding - ask the ibo about Biafra war and they'd tell you N.Army did not shoot a single Biafran fly until Britain, Soviet Union and Egypt got involved LOL!"

Gradually you and two others subtly accepted the fact "Yoruba History" was written to 'favour' and 'used as a tool of propaganda and grandstanding' and I love this admission. Sorry man, true history are not. History must be legit, open-minded and versed. Your comparing war with level of history on this thread is like comparing Apple with Tomato.

You wrote: "Yoruba take a sense of pride in their history very much and an average Yoruba has interest in Yoruba history. Thus, you cannot be mad at the nationalist emotions that come with it. Just deal with it sir."

How you take pride in your history is none of my business; if you like go climb mount Everest and shout your heart out "Yoruba people are the first children of God, bla bla bla" However when you put forth your 'tool of propaganda and grandstanding' history, endeavor not to trample on the BENIN HISTORY.

Now start going round, throughout Yorubaland, inform your kits and kin. who're IGNORANT to stop saying "Edos are Yoruba". However if you insist to cross your bound, then be prepared to hear the TRUTHS that hurts.

NigerMan1:
What really is the problem of Yoruba youths of this age? You guys need to re-create yourself to overcome innate phobia and fireball of hatred for the Igbo from your subsconscious minds. All along you took me for an Igbo, while 'off siding' the content and principle of the discourse. It's a pity.

More often than not, you people draw the first blood and when confronted with facts, you replied with barrage of insults and abuse, and you do this shameful acts even when the topic is national or HISTORY.

You wrote: "History, despite having its root in acadmia can be used as a tool of propaganda and grandstanding - ask the ibo about Biafra war and they'd tell you N.Army did not shoot a single Biafran fly until Britain, Soviet Union and Egypt got involved LOL!"

Gradually you and two others subtly accepted the fact "Yoruba History" was written to 'favour' and 'used as a tool of propaganda and grandstanding' and I love this admission. Sorry man, true history are not. History must be legit, open-minded and versed. Your comparing war with level of history on this thread is like comparing Apple with Tomato.

You wrote: "Yoruba take a sense of pride in their history very much and an average Yoruba has interest in Yoruba history. Thus, you cannot be mad at the nationalist emotions that come with it. Just deal with it sir."

How you take pride in your history is none of my business; if you like go climb mount Everest and shout your heart out "Yoruba people are the first children of God, bla bla bla" However when you put forth your 'tool of propaganda and grandstanding' history, endeavor not to trample on the BENIN HISTORY.

Now start going round, throughout Yorubaland, inform your kits and kin. who're IGNORANT to stop saying "Edos are Yoruba". However if you insist to cross your bound, then be prepared to hear the TRUTHS that hurts.

thats a classic

9jacrip:
@ the emboldened: do us the favour of listing these traditional chiefs

This isn't condolence register or moratorium


I just stated facts ....puncture them if you can

NigerMan1:
What really is the problem of Yoruba youths of this age? You guys need to re-create yourself to overcome innate phobia and fireball of hatred for the Igbo from your subsconscious minds. All along you took me for an Igbo, while 'off siding' the content and principle of the discourse. It's a pity.

More often than not, you people draw the first blood and when confronted with facts, you replied with barrage of insults and abuse, and you do this shameful acts even when the topic is national or HISTORY.

You wrote: "History, despite having its root in acadmia can be used as a tool of propaganda and grandstanding - ask the ibo about Biafra war and they'd tell you N.Army did not shoot a single Biafran fly until Britain, Soviet Union and Egypt got involved LOL!"

Gradually you and two others subtly accepted the fact "Yoruba History" was written to 'favour' and 'used as a tool of propaganda and grandstanding' and I love this admission. Sorry man, true history are not. History must be legit, open-minded and versed. Your comparing war with level of history on this thread is like comparing Apple with Tomato.

You wrote: "Yoruba take a sense of pride in their history very much and an average Yoruba has interest in Yoruba history. Thus, you cannot be mad at the nationalist emotions that come with it. Just deal with it sir."

How you take pride in your history is none of my business; if you like go climb mount Everest and shout your heart out "Yoruba people are the first children of God, bla bla bla" However when you put forth your 'tool of propaganda and grandstanding' history, endeavor not to trample on the BENIN HISTORY.

Now start going round, throughout Yorubaland, inform your kits and kin. who're IGNORANT to stop saying "Edos are Yoruba". However if you insist to cross your bound, then be prepared to hear the TRUTHS that hurts.

Rants.

You've gone from trying to debate to vituperative.

You're not in the league of schooling me to what history should be, you do not even come close.

If you happened to be a history grad thwn I'd like to rip you apart here on so many debates bothering on history - who the Bleep do you think you are?

Yoruba never claimed Edo to be part of us, it is you lots who have Yoruba kingship system, use Yoruba terms and even have Yoruba names - you shoud probably direct your hate towards your progenitors who looked to us.

Whatever school you graduated from needs to have its dept of history shut down. Why? Because you've failed, as a historian to discern that the record of one phenomenon involving different groups would be written differently and a historian is supposed to take these pieces and reconstruct. I have tried to do this with you over this Lagos history by taking your source and others then drawing a reasonable account around them. For you, it has been superiroty of Benin history of a thing or nothing else and you're opening your putrid mouth and typing with your leprous fingers about whay history should be about?

As far as Yoruba is concerned, our account of our own history is ultimate until you or your benin folks can take on the calibre of historians we have produced whose works on Yoruba history have earned many medals world over - do you want me to mention names?

I do not have problems with ibos for a fact, rather, the recent distortion of Yoruba history by them here has rather made me wary of whom I engage.

You are not bright at all!

rockingpink:
Nothing wey no dey dis delta state.

honestly. The state is a melting pot for major southern Nigerian ethnicities

tonychristopher:
This isn't condolence register or moratorium


I just stated facts ....puncture them if you can

I'm weak

The starting point of puncturing is getting you to list these traditional titles.

This is history, the littlest plug can be pulled to deflate an enormous body of research.

So start listing.

squaddy:
"The illiterate of the 21st century is not he who cannot read nor write but he who cannot learn,unlearn and relearn" Alvin Toffler.

This describes the average Yoruba youth who has been brainwashed into believing fallacies and only result to vituperations when faced with facts.

Nigerman1 do not bother educating these philistines.

Another mad man. You make silly claims and call them facts

Wat is fact about a mad man saying yoruba were slaves to Bini

Mee234:
They speak Igbo and bear IBO names. Unless u are told that a person is olukumi ,u will pass him up as aniocha person

they also bear Yorubic names

tonychristopher:
Who will tell me the meaning of
Oshodi
Lekki
Idumagbon
Idumota
Eko


This question is for yorubas.


I will want to ascertain the no man land status of lagos

I think Benin owns lagos first

Am sure you are an history enthusiast
If it's not too much for you take a trip to Isele-eko and learn the history of lagos

Osodi and lekki arent even iin lagos(island) nw you lot are extending this Bini claim to all of Lagos state

9jacrip:
I was not trying to diminish, who am I to do that in the face of glaring facts found in similarity of Obaship between Eko and Benin?

It is you who needs to calm down with the sense of pride of Benin holding sway in Lagos Island for a short period.

You need to first understand that the Idejo factor cannot be brushed aside or downplayed, it is staring you in the face, admit it.

You also need to research and you'll find that Eleko was originally an Oba of Eko (island) and in recent times made the paramount head of lagos oba council with ability to 'influence' politics but his palace/subject choices remain within Eko (island).

You also need to get the fact that the Idejo are first class kings, like Oba of Lagos. They have their domains and hold full sway on their subjects without any subjection to Eleko.

You also need to get the fact that Eleko does not hold any land in Lagos. He was originally an extension of Benin king and plays roles accompanying such a position.

You also need to know that the throne the idejo see as the representation of their father (Olofin) is that of the Oloto not the Eko seat.

To answer your question:

1. According to your Lagos website source, Benin King and his representation in Lagos did not rule entire Lagos (as it is now), your source and many others say he did not rule beyond Eko which is Lagos Island surrounded by pepper farm and nobody lived there.

Until the coming of the Bini's, Lagos's geographic boundary was what is known now as Lagos Mainland. Lagos Island, the seat of the Oba of Lagos then consisted of a pepper farm and fishing posts. No one lived there though. The name Eko was given to it by its first King Oba Ado during its early history, it also saw periods of rule by the Kingdom of Benin. Eko was the land area now known as Lagos Island where the king's palace was built. The Palace is called Iga Idunganran which, translated means Palace built on the pepper farm. Oba Ado and the warriors from Benin as well as some of the indigenous people who sought safety settled down in the southern part of Eko called "Isale Eko", Isale literarily meaning bottom, but must have been used to indicate downtown (as in Downtown Lagos).

2. Indeed, no denying this but Benin's direct influence on Eko (Lagos Island) waned completely after Ado's son - Gabaro.

3. He sent chiefs to help Ado, yes. And names of such chiefs exist today, no one has disputed that. The question is, how many of these chiefs are palace chiefs today and play the roles outlined by Oba Benin?

4. Modern day Oba of Eko from Akinsemoyin has shed its Benin ancestry to a very large extent. Let me remind you that Ologun Kutere line has Ijesa ancestry (surprised?) Apart from the paraphernalia of the Oba and some processes of installing the Oba, every other aspect of Obaship in Lagos has its core in Yoruba.

Let me give you an insider's information; the Akinsemoyin and Ologun Kutere mostly inter marry with the Idejo groups such as Ojora, Elegushi, Oniru that you'd find most of these Idejo folks claiming to be prince(ss) even if its through maternal line. An example: after Oba Oyekan passed, his written recommendation was for an Ojora to be the next king (he is also from Ologun Kutere as well as Ojora line). The throne has been so bombarded by Yoruba that you'll wonder how strong Benin influence originally was.

You'll wonder how I know these things even though I'm not from Lagos. Firstly, Yoruba folks are always welcomed to be involved in anything going on in any part of Yoruba land - as a Historian I seized the opportunity to ask questions and as an awo, I seized the opportunity to mix up with the awo from the palace - just last two weeks, I was with the Balogun and Ogboni from the palace. So do not be surprised if I go to Benin palace and mingle thoroughly and even give you information you've never heard before.

You lie about glaringly 'facts' - over the years many of you tried to debunk those stories, but unfortinately (for you) that are very recent and are weaved in spirituality. The people concern could not deny it.

You wrote: "4. Modern day Oba of Eko from Akinsemoyin has shed its Benin ancestry to a very large extent. Let me remind you that Ologun Kutere line has Ijesa ancestry (surprised?) Apart from the paraphernalia of the Oba and some processes of installing the Oba, every other aspect of Obaship in Lagos has its core in Yoruba."

This is was the latest story that was weaved by some commissioned Yoruba writers to deny the existence and ANCESTRY of Benin in present day Oba of Lagos. I remember the Ooni of Ife as one of the chief protagonists of this mischief; while Oba Akiolu and late Oba Adeyinka Oyekan - openly admitted their Benin Ancestry.

>> Do you know the ANCESTRY of the Oba of Lagos more than the King himself?

>> Why do you guys from Osun, Ogun, Oyo more interested in Lagos and denying Oba ancestry?

Read what Oba Akiolu said:

"Lagos is partly Yoruba and partly Benin. The matriarch was an Awori, a Yoruba, and the patriarch was a de­scendant of an Oba of Benin. In those days, Eko was Eko before the advent of the Portuguese adventurers who came and named it Lago de Curamo, which means land near the water. There is a town in Portugal called Lagos. They named this place after their Lagos over there. They assisted in rebuilding the throne room and that is why it’s called Iga. The palace is a place of pride and honour. The custodian of the throne must be very frank, have goodwill, be absolutely honest and love his subjects because anything he says will come to pass."

SOURCE: http://sunnewsonline.com/new/?p=102716

hotwax:
[b] Ifa was dated 600BC. IFA even alerted Yoruba people when Jesus was born...Ifa acknowledged the elders of a birth of "egg in the eye of olodumare"...Eyin loju olodumare....the precious one to the creator...

I have read IFA divinity, but christianity is my way, cuz IFA cant answer some question the bible answered.[\b]

Wat nonsense is this? Pls take Ifa out of ur Christian propaganda
Jesus is not mentioned in any Odu. ..that's imposible. Awos have more Important things to concern themselves with

tonychristopher:
Yes, I can shed some light on the connection with Lagos, which was a colony of Benin for many years, ruled by Edo viceroys. The modern name Lagos was derived from one used by Portuguese explorers - "Lago di Kuramo".

But the original Edo name for Lagos is "Eko". Oba Orhogbua, who had earlier been educated and baptised at a Portuguese school in Benin, founded it as a prisoner-of-war camp in the 16th century. [Orhogbua was the son of Esigie]

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Because of a falsely rumored coup back home he returned to Benin from where he dispatched his grandson Esikpa to return to become the first Eleko of Eko. Esikpa was himself succeeded by his sons Edo and Guobaro respectively.

Beginning with Esikpa, most Elekos had their remains returned to Benin for interment. [Chiefs of Badagry were also buried in Benin.] Shortly after the amalgamation of North and South in 1914 there was a brief Eleko crisis in Lagos when indigenes demanded a reestablishment of their traditional monarchy. In 1915, responding to requests by Lagos indigenes, Iyase Obaseki and Obazuaye were dispatched by Oba Eweka II to testify about the Edo antecedents of the Lagos Monarchy.

To this day, many genuine traditional titles in Lagos are Edo titles. There is a direct blood link between the royal families of Lagos and
Benin. And if you pay very close attention, Edos are very prominent and successful in Lagos life. A fair number of "Lagosians" have Edo heritage even though a large number have acculturated their names with the Yoruba majority.

You can verify this information from the Palace of Oba Oyekan.

Read what Oba Akiolu said about their Ancestry:

Can you explain how this town came into existence?

"Lagos is partly Yoruba and partly Benin. The matriarch was an Awori, a Yoruba, and the patriarch was a de­scendant of an Oba of Benin"

"In those days, Eko was Eko before the advent of the Portuguese adventurers who came and named it Lago de Curamo, which means land near the water. There is a town in Portugal called Lagos. They named this place after their Lagos over there. They assisted in rebuilding the throne room and that is why it’s called Iga. The palace is a place of pride and honour. The custodian of the throne must be very frank, have goodwill, be absolutely honest and love his subjects because anything he says will come to pass."

SOURCE: http://sunnewsonline.com/new/?p=102716