₦airaland Forum

jayriginal:
So tell me cos I'm curious.

How did you manage to escape their clutches, what with the love bombing and all.

My mum basically got us outta there before I could count properly . I promised my dying grandmother I'd give it a try, even though she shunned me and my brother most of my life. Curiosity took me there. Results were great initially, but flatlined.

'Love bombing'. So apt. They make love to ones need for inclusion and security. The religion can bring out the best in people, but often the walls start to close in and oh crap there is no escape route that ends well.

jayriginal:
You're welcome. I hope they help.

If a former governing body can leave, if elders can leave, then anyone can. Their insights will be valuable.

I have a 3rd recommendation, and this one can be found online. Look for Shepherd the Flock of God, which is the secret manual that only elders are allowed to see. Its the manual for maintaining witnesses.

Good luck.

Even Crisis of Conscience is available online, I think. I have a digital copy - can't recall how I got it, though. I can email it to Flytefalls if she wants.

paulGrundy:
Go to

www.jwfacts.com

Excuse me, are the Paul Grundy?

JuanDeDios:
Even Crisis of Conscience is available online, I think. I have a digital copy - can't recall how I got it, though. I can email it to Flytefalls if she wants.

That's extremely kind of you

I've just sat down to look for it. If I can't find it I'm coming for you!

dolphinheart:
When someone is disfellowshiped, everyone is sad. But that emotional state does not mean they must change the rule on what the disciples say must be done in the congregation.
There is a process before one is being disfellowshiped where the reason for ur actions, the circumstances sorrounding it and your desire in seeking repentance and corrections are being examined.
If you are being disfellowshiped, then there is a high probability you have done something wrong , and if you have not done something wrong, there is a process in which you can have the issue reassesed by others.

Even if you are disfellowshiped ,it is not the end, there is a process of coming back to the fold , if you have shown true repentance, the process is easy and straightforward.

1. What religious organization do u associate with now
2. Why are you dissolutioned .

On the issue of hypocricy, ill like the poster to tell us one of their hypocritical behavior , and we will see if its a general behavior associated with them or its just an individuals imperfect actions.

There are people who take there spiritual uprightness too far, looking at someone who made a mistake as if he is stained with poo. This to me is wrong and with time, the heart of those ones are corrected . If you look at those people as the bases for being dissolusioned , then stop cus its wrong .

Aren't you missing something? What if he doesn't want to come back to the fold, having examined his conscience and found the fold is not good for him at that time? You think anyone should suffer emotional torture for that?

Flytefalls:
I need an anonymous place to restore my sanity from the drama this religion brings to my life periodically.

I'm not an ex JW, I have never been a JW, but even now I am having to deal with the everlasting effects of my mother's disfellowship approximately 20 years ago.

Are there any former JW's, or JW non-baptised escapees, or even those still trapped inside 'the truth' who feel disillusioned here on NL? For myself and my mother, I have questions.

Does your mother still retain her 'faith' despite her disfellowship?

What caused her to be cast aside by the JWs?

mmsen:
Does your mother still retain her 'faith' despite her disfellowship?

What caused her to be cast aside by the JWs?

She prays (She calls him God, not Jehovah anymore), she reads her bible, she doesn't attend a church, she tries to live in peace. She has absolutely no inclination of ever returning.

Her disfellowship meant she became the black sheep. She was never bad. Growing up with a disfellowshipped mother meant I never knew a lot of my maternal family until mid teens.

Are you a JW?

JuanDeDios:
Aren't you missing something? What if he doesn't want to come back to the fold, having examined his conscience and found the fold is not good for him at that time? You think anyone should suffer emotional torture for that?

Ask them all this question, see them answer from a textbook.

Flytefalls:
She prays (She calls him God, not Jehovah anymore), she reads her bible, she doesn't attend a church, she tries to live in peace. She has absolutely no inclination of ever returning.

Her disfellowship meant she became the black sheep. She was never bad. Growing up with a disfellowshipped mother meant I never knew a lot of my maternal family until mid teens.

Are you a JW?

Not a JW but I know of a few people whose parents were disfellowshiped, usually for very petty reasons. I know a few families that have been divided as a result of the JWs.

Sounds like your mother has found peace.

mmsen:
Not a JW but I know of a few people whose parents were disfellowshiped, usually for very petty reasons. I know a few families that have been divided as a result of the JWs.

Sounds like your mother has found peace.

I really thought she had. I think she did. Then something happened recently and it meant a family member very close to her decided she couldn't talk to her anymore as it was against bible principles. That person loves my mum, I am certain of this, but now she has 'had to get serious' meaning she must distant herself from my mum. It's so hurtful, my mum has started to recoil into herself .

Flytefalls:
I really thought she had. I think she did. Then something happened recently and it meant a family member very close to her decided she couldn't talk to her anymore as it was against bible principles. That person loves my mum, I am certain of this, but now she has 'had to get serious' meaning she must distant herself from my mum. It's so hurtful, my mum has started to recoil into herself .

I'm sorry to hear that, sadly I've heard similar tales.

Religion is slavery.

Flytefalls:
That's cool, I once felt the same way too. Problems only really arise if you challenge their views, or you get baptised and things don't go so well. There is a massive cloak of deception that they are forced to wear and show to the world, but underneath the veil they aren't so different from everybody else. Thats the truth, it's all an act.

naaaaaa, i dont think that is totally true,..i studied with JWs for almost 3 years, i decided not to get baptised after being a piblisher. i also visited Bethel at Igeduma,Edo state on various occassions.

i dont know about you but i can authoritatively say that- if you understand the JW way and you decide to be one of them, you will have a good life as a JW. Even though i decided not to be one of them as i chose not to get baptised. Almost my witness friends are very very nice to me, they are like family to me as they are always there and always very supportive, even more than my new church members.

i think its about your surrounding, their orientation and their level of exposure, witnesses i know in Benin and Environs are one awesome group of people.

JuanDeDios:
Even Crisis of Conscience is available online, I think. I have a digital copy - can't recall how I got it, though. I can email it to Flytefalls if she wants.

Lol.

I've got a PDF of the books I recommended as well as a few others I didn't.

However she didn't ask, she said she'd order and so I didn't offer. I didn't want to presume because some people are strict about certain things (piracy for instance).

The reason I mentioned the Shepherd Flock of God book was because its a secret book. There is no other way to get it if you aren't an elder except the internet.

OP, feel free to request PDFs of the books if you don't mind. The person I quoted is willing to mail them to you.

Flytefalls:
My mum basically got us outta there before I could count properly . I promised my dying grandmother I'd give it a try, even though she shunned me and my brother most of my life. Curiosity took me there. Results were great initially, but flatlined.

'Love bombing'. So apt. They make love to ones need for inclusion and security. The religion can bring out the best in people, but often the walls start to close in and oh crap there is no escape route that ends well.

The watchtower organization is a cult. A strong one.

I'm an atheist, but I used to respect Jehovah's witnesses. I thought they were sincere and all that. I became close to one and that was when I decided to learn about them. I even attended some meetings. I was shocked.

If someone can come and share "experiences" and state in front of thousands that he gave up higher education to serve Jehovah because higher education is a trap from the devil that will derail and prevent him from doing Jehovah's work, there is something wrong. The young man was applauded.

Some lady came out to say that she left her job as it was a distraction. She learnt a trade instead. Is the trade not a job? She was applauded as well.

Of course their kingdom is not of this world, so they don't involve themselves in politics, don't go to war, etc. Other people are dying to make sure they are safe and they say they are not interested.

Anyways, the person I got close to, the family of the person shunned the person, even without the person being disfellowshipped. I think I should stop here. I'm getting worked up.

I'm glad you aren't in that cult and for what its worth, I can relate to your having issues when they found out you had a catholic boyfriend. Its in the secret manual.

Flytefalls:
I'm female, please .

If it gives you comfort, believe that she done something terrible. But she just wanted to leave. People are allowed to leave. If they happen to be baptized, then they are disfellowshipped. That's it. The spy was one person, but it was enough to get the elders talking to her. Perhaps because her family were (tbh they still are) so deeply embedded in the congregation, and almost treated like a model family, the elders thought they were helping her get back on track. When my mum said she wanted to leave, then she had a subsequent meeting with the judicial committee. They tried to convince her to stay, but her heart wasn't in it because she now felt their 'concern' for her was fickle and false. She wouldn't change her mind, so she was disfellowshipped. She's never given up on her faith in God, the Truth would make you lot think that every person disfellowshipped went through some major event and then were unrepentantly kicked out. Some people just leave. Accept it.

I have an uncle who stepped down from being an elder. He will never leave because it's all he has, but he still talks to my mum. Basically cried and apologised to my mum and her children for shunning us. This changed my attitude towards JW's. I'm not as angry with them anymore, I feel a lot of pity. A cousin who almost died due to no blood transfusion, her mum basically still in it by a thread as it's all she has too.

I'm not a troublemaker. I don't go out of my way to disrespect people who are actually helping me with my understanding. The answers given were unsatisfactory, pre-rehersed where I just wanted to discuss in real time, so I guess they left me to make my own decisions. But I couldn't help the feeling of being let down, they gave up on me waaay before I'd given up on them.

I'm really not interested in quoting verses here. Not at all I'm afraid. There is always an answer in the Bible but the understanding can be very different. JW's don't allow for independent thinkers, and that just won't do.

You are asking me about Catholicism because you want to tell me their faith is based on lies and they allow people to bathe in their own sins, worship Mary, and idolize the cross. I've heard it all and I'm bored of it. I am not a Catholic, but I go to their church. The people are much happier, and they don't spend their time slating Jehovah's Witnesses/other religions on a weekly basis.

Sorry for thinking you are male.

The whole situation does not give me any comfort.

Ill say it again, you are not disfellowshiped for leaving .
There are some cases where disfellowshipment have been reversed.

I'm sad you are not ready to discuss ur views with me using the bible as the base and guide.
I was wishing you could ask me those questions and we both use the bible to examine it .

I'm not trying to tell you anything about Catholics, its you that will decide the truthfullness of there teachings and actions. You have some knowledge about both religious organizations disciplinary procedures and its you that will decide which one really follow scriptural process in dealing with wrongdoers among them .

I believe you try to study the bible to worship our creator and other peoples feelings is not a determinant, its what I'm learning there that matters .

I had an accident on the lagos ibadan expressway , was rejected by the first three hospitals I was taking to. While looking for a hospital , It was my identification as one of jehovahs witneses that saved me cus the local brothers contacted ran around to finally get me to shagamu for first aid attention , I did not know them, they did not know me , but for the whole day till I was stabilized and my family arrived in the evening , they where there beside me, paying my bills, and making sure the doctors try there best so I survive. To me, those kind of act is better than knowing if people like me or not or if they are happy.
I was tranfered to luth for my operation, I rejected blood tranfusion even though I've lost a lot of blood . A man with similar situation as mine and whose bed was beside mine got his operation done before mine cus he agreed to blood transfusion . I finally got operated without blood and I survived . The man who took blood died from blood related complications three weeks later. I was ready to die on my beliefs knowing fully well that the God I'm trying to serve has the power to resurrect me and has promised me that if I serve him to the end , I will gain my life back.

jayriginal:
The watchtower organization is a cult. A strong one.

I'm an atheist, but I used to respect Jehovah's witnesses. I thought they were sincere and all that. I became close to one and that was when I decided to learn about them. I even attended some meetings. I was shocked.

If someone can come and share "experiences" and state in front of thousands that he gave up higher education to serve Jehovah because higher education is a trap from the devil that will derail and prevent him from doing Jehovah's work, there is something wrong. The young man was applauded.

Some lady came out to say that she left her job as it was a distraction. She learnt a trade instead. Is the trade not a job? She was applauded as well.

Of course their kingdom is not of this world, so they don't involve themselves in politics, don't go to war, etc. Other people are dying to make sure they are safe and they say they are not interested.

Anyways, the person I got close to, the family of the person shunned the person, even without the person being disfellowshipped. I think I should stop here. I'm getting worked up.

I'm glad you aren't in that cult and for what its worth, I can relate to your having issues when they found out you had a catholic boyfriend. Its in the secret manual.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Amen my brother! I have no beef with atheism, I totally respect your pov.

That despicable cult have half my family trapped inside and simultaneously believing that they are free. What a joke. The last meeting I went to, the one less than a year ago when my BS tolerance meter exploded, was when they had announced a new understanding where women now had to wear veils if sitting in a study with a male baptised publisher. I don't even know if that was the gist of it, I was shocked. You know when your brain processes information so thoroughly your entire body halts its processes to allow it to configure the information entering via your ears, well I was truly stunned. Yet, more astonishing were the fumbled attempts of the elder on the platform who tried hard to normalise this information to a crowd of frowning brothers and sisters. They all had to accept this new understanding without query but you could see it on their faces, the confusion, doubt, absurdity.

Oh the experiences. There is nothing like a brother on the stage talking about how he put his ministry first and his noble prize ceremony/lung cancer operation/opportunity to save an old lady from being mugged, second. People are just people, they need to stop with the delusional superiority complex. They are no better than other men.

Their apocalyptic outlook on life serves them well when they need it to. The end days are coming, don't save for tomorrow, give us your money to help the organisation grow. God loves a cheerful giver, doesn't he *fake smile*. Oh but of course, they are not like the other religions that ask for money, because they don't pass a collection plate or beg for money. So why is that dude on the platform slowly talking us through how to give gift aid if you pay taxes in the UK? Is this part of the bible study? If a cure for cancer came tomorrow, they will be first in line to use it, despite them never donating to cancer research due to their own hypocritical mangled bible understandings. They don't vote, but to fill the political void they'll have on offer commentary on trivial matters such as the new building procured by Bethel, or length of sister xyz's dress at the convention

By now, I'm sure you can tell I'm not a fan of that religion. I always make a point of saying hello to a person I know has been disfellowshipped because I always remember how lonely my mum sometimes feels. The people aren't all bad, some are my closest friends, but they don't have a choice regarding how they must act. That's to be pitied. Sometimes I feel it is we from the outside who must fight for them. If there is hope, it lies with the Proles, sort of thing

*rant over for now*

dolphinheart:
Sorry for thinking you are male.

The whole situation does not give me any comfort.

Ill say it again, you are not disfellowshiped for leaving .
There are some cases where disfellowshipment have been reversed.

I'm sad you are not ready to discuss ur views with me using the bible as the base and guide.
I was wishing you could ask me those questions and we both use the bible to examine it .

I'm not trying to tell you anything about Catholics, its you that will decide the truthfullness of there teachings and actions. You have some knowledge about both religious organizations disciplinary procedures and its you that will decide which one really follow scriptural process in dealing with wrongdoers among them .

I believe you try to study the bible to worship our creator and other peoples feelings is not a determinant, its what I'm learning there that matters .

I had an accident on the lagos ibadan expressway , was rejected by the first three hospitals I was taking to. While looking for a hospital , It was my identification as one of jehovahs witneses that saved me cus the local brothers contacted ran around to finally get me to shagamu for first aid attention , I did not know them, they did not know me , but for the whole day till I was stabilized and my family arrived in the evening , they where there beside me, paying my bills, and making sure the doctors try there best so I survive. To me, those kind of act is better than knowing if people like me or not or if they are happy.
I was tranfered to luth for my operation, I rejected blood tranfusion even though I've lost a lot of blood . A man with similar situation as mine and whose bed was beside mine got his operation done before mine cus he agreed to blood transfusion . I finally got operated without blood and I survived . The man who took blood died from blood related complications three weeks later. I was ready to die on my beliefs knowing fully well that the God I'm trying to serve has the power to resurrect me and has promised me that if I serve him to the end , I will gain my life back.

If you are baptised, nowadays they will give you time to fade, but you will eventually have to make a decision. Do you know how condescending, ridiculous and pathetic it is to have one smarmy JW pay a visit to your house to talk a load of false truths because they meant well? Some people quit because they cannot stand this part of the 'fading' deal.

Brb tomorrow with the rest lol.

jayriginal:
The watchtower organization is a cult. A strong one.

I'm an atheist, but I used to respect Jehovah's witnesses. I thought they were sincere and all that. I became close to one and that was when I decided to learn about them. I even attended some meetings. I was shocked.

If someone can come and share "experiences" and state in front of thousands that he gave up higher education to serve Jehovah because higher education is a trap from the devil that will derail and prevent him from doing Jehovah's work, there is something wrong. The young man was applauded.

Some lady came out to say that she left her job as it was a distraction. She learnt a trade instead. Is the trade not a job? She was applauded as well.

Of course their kingdom is not of this world, so they don't involve themselves in politics, don't go to war, etc. Other people are dying to make sure they are safe and they say they are not interested.

Anyways, the person I got close to, the family of the person shunned the person, even without the person being disfellowshipped. I think I should stop here. I'm getting worked up.

I'm glad you aren't in that cult and for what its worth, I can relate to your having issues when they found out you had a catholic boyfriend. Its in the secret manual.

Haba! Why take up part of what they say, expand it and leave the rest . Are you saying the organization say you must not get higher education ?
You want to cook rice and beans and you have put rice on the fire first before putting beans.

Jehovahs witnesses try their best to make u understand that their is a place for material things, spiritual things should come first, cus its the only thing that can give you evalasting life, a life where you can compare its existence with all the wealth you can ever make in this world.
They also encourage you to be hard working to be able to provide for urself and ur family.
As a servant of God, you are expected to make present an possible future life determining decisions. Questions like , what are my goals in life, how do I plan to achieve them, does my goals help me survive beyond this present system of things or just helps me to live this present system comfortably. Is higher education a confirmed and only way to achieve those goals.

All over the world , people who train themselves in handwork and acquire skills and who are hard working tend to get work and can feed themselves .they have time for themselves, family and spiritual growth cus they own their work and can arrange it to fit their other goals . The bible tells us about being good with the work of ur hands . People and companies always need people who have this skills so the posibility of earning an income to take care of ur vital needs of food, clothing and shelter can be more achieved with this skills.
Compare that to higher education , in nigeria we all know how the universities keep chunning out graduates at an increasing rate with no jobs for them to do . We keep seeing the resultant effect of those who lost there jobs and dnt have the skills apart from their certificate to start something by themselves. We keep seeing the longhours higher educated ones are being subjected to at work in other to meet targets, they dnt have time for family, children and spiritual things except to remember God on sunday. And if ur boss say u should come on sunday , then no spiritual activity that week. We keep seeing how the system keep demanding more education for ur to meet up to its rat race. U get bsc , they will demand masters, u get masters, the system will demand phd . If you dnt get it, others who have less family and spiritual goals will and will get ahead of you and ull probably get laid off.
We keep seeing how getting higher education keep getting more and more expensive and puts stress on people who are trying to get it for their wards.

If you feel that higher education is vital cus it makes it more possible to acquire wealth, an its vital to learning Gods word, then I leave you to it . But to some, acquisition of wealth is not there primary goal .

So if a witness say he or she has found way to Increase his service to God by finding an alternative method to taking care of himself and family apart from higher education, we are happy. And if a witness who has higher education say he has found a way to use his education to increase his service to jehovah , we are also happy.

Jehovahs witnesses follow bible examples. Did jesus or any of his disciples do politics or participate in political process?
Is the present political system part of Gods arrangement?
What does the bible say about mans ability to govern himself.?
Under who's power did the bible say the present system of things come under?.
What does jesus say about how you treat ur enemy?
What does the bible say about killings others?
What does the bible say about carrying weapons?
What does the bible say about treating anyone who sins deliberately, delibrately does things that goes against congregational teachings and biblical directives?.

dolphinheart:
Haba! Why take up part of what they say, expand it and leave the rest . Are you saying the organization say you must not get higher education ?
You want to cook rice and beans and you have put rice on the fire first before putting beans.

Jehovahs witnesses try their best to make u understand that their is a place for material things, spiritual things should come first, cus its the only thing that can give you evalasting life, a life where you can compare its existence with all the wealth you can ever make in this world.
They also encourage you to be hard working to be able to provide for urself and ur family.
As a servant of God, you are expected to make present an possible future life determining decisions. Questions like , what are my goals in life, how do I plan to achieve them, does my goals help me survive beyond this present system of things or just helps me to live this present system comfortably. Is higher education a confirmed and only way to achieve those goals.

All over the world , people who train themselves in handwork and acquire skills and who are hard working tend to get work and can feed themselves .they have time for themselves, family and spiritual growth cus they own their work and can arrange it to fit their other goals . The bible tells us about being good with the work of ur hands . People and companies always need people who have this skills so the posibility of earning an income to take care of ur vital needs of food, clothing and shelter can be more achieved with this skills.
Compare that to higher education , in nigeria we all know how the universities keep chunning out graduates at an increasing rate with no jobs for them to do . We keep seeing the resultant effect of those who lost there jobs and dnt have the skills apart from their certificate to start something by themselves. We keep seeing the longhours higher educated ones are being subjected to at work in other to meet targets, they dnt have time for family, children and spiritual things except to remember God on sunday. And if ur boss say u should come on sunday , then no spiritual activity that week. We keep seeing how the system keep demanding more education for ur to meet up to its rat race. U get bsc , they will demand masters, u get masters, the system will demand phd . If you dnt get it, others who have less family and spiritual goals will and will get ahead of you and ull probably get laid off.
We keep seeing how getting higher education keep getting more and more expensive and puts stress on people who are trying to get it for their wards.

If you feel that higher education is vital cus it makes it more possible to acquire wealth, an its vital to learning Gods word, then I leave you to it . But to some, acquisition of wealth is not there primary goal .

So if a witness say he or she has found way to Increase his service to God by finding an alternative method to taking care of himself and family apart from higher education, we are happy. And if a witness who has higher education say he has found a way to use his education to increase his service to jehovah , we are also happy.

Jehovahs witnesses follow bible examples. Did jesus or any of his disciples do politics or participate in political process?
Is the present political system part of Gods arrangement?
What does the bible say about mans ability to govern himself.?
Under who's power did the bible say the present system of things come under?.
What does jesus say about how you treat ur enemy?
What does the bible say about killings others?
What does the bible say about carrying weapons?
What does the bible say about treating anyone who sins deliberately, delibrately does things that goes against congregational teachings and biblical directives?.

It is not explicitly forbidden, it is discouraged.

As you said up there unwittingly buttressing my point, spiritual is placed over the material. You further agreed that this world is not yours. My point stands.

CheKesch:
Bru...seriously, u need to dig deeper for a better argument than the above.

No, I don't need to do anything, my posts are not to try and change anyone,
they are to simply show the truth of scripture.
Some seek Truth and some seek their own, or some one else's way,
if you want to jump into the fire then go for it.

johnw74: Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be proclaimed in all the world as a witness to all nations. And then the end shall come.

That is not talking about jw who for decades have been saying the kingdom is coming, and when it doesn't come they come up with a new date.
jw told me about 36 years ago that there were only a few holy ones left alive, they are very old and so the kingdom is coming very soon.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel flying in mid-heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those dwelling on the earth, even to every nation and kindred and tongue and people,

The preaching of the Gospel has been ongoing for 2000 years.
Rev 14:6 is probably the preaching of the Gospel before the end, that Jesus was speaking off

Flytefalls:
If you are baptised, nowadays they will give you time to fade, but you will eventually have to make a decision. Do you know how condescending, ridiculous and pathetic it is to have one smarmy JW pay a visit to your house to talk a load of false truths because they meant well? Some people quit because they cannot stand this part of the 'fading' deal.

Brb tomorrow with the rest lol.

Sorry for the situation, but I feel you are now having or already have ur opinion that you are not ready to discuss with the use of the bible. And its only with the bible that I can contribute to this discussion.

I'm beginning to think ur opinion of religion is based on peoples thinking and behavior, and the organization does not meet ur expectations. So I'm sorry,pls dnt be vexed, but I have to leave unless you agree to discuss about what the bible say on ur views and mine and why you feel that my views does not conform to bible teachings.

Flytefalls:
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Amen my brother! I have no beef with atheism, I totally respect your pov.

That despicable cult have half my family trapped inside and simultaneously believing that they are free. What a joke. The last meeting I went to, the one less than a year ago when my BS tolerance meter exploded, was when they had announced a new understanding where women now had to wear veils if sitting in a study with a male baptised publisher. I don't even know if that was the gist of it, I was shocked. You know when your brain processes information so thoroughly your entire body halts its processes to allow it to configure the information entering via your ears, well I was truly stunned. Yet, more astonishing were the fumbled attempts of the elder on the platform who tried hard to normalise this information to a crowd of frowning brothers and sisters. They all had to accept this new understanding without query but you could see it on their faces, the confusion, doubt, absurdity.

Oh the experiences. There is nothing like a brother on the stage talking about how he put his ministry first and his noble prize ceremony/lung cancer operation/opportunity to save an old lady from being mugged, second. People are just people, they need to stop with the delusional superiority complex. They are no better than other men.

Their apocalyptic outlook on life serves them well when they need it to. The end days are coming, don't save for tomorrow, give us your money to help the organisation grow. God loves a cheerful giver, doesn't he *fake smile*. Oh but of course, they are not like the other religions that ask for money, because they don't pass a collection plate or beg for money. So why is that dude on the platform slowly talking us through how to give gift aid if you pay taxes in the UK? Is this part of the bible study? If a cure for cancer came tomorrow, they will be first in line to use it, despite them never donating to cancer research due to their own hypocritical mangled bible understandings. They don't vote, but to fill the political void they'll have on offer commentary on trivial matters such as the new building procured by Bethel, or length of sister xyz's dress at the convention

By now, I'm sure you can tell I'm not a fan of that religion. I always make a point of saying hello to a person I know has been disfellowshipped because I always remember how lonely my mum sometimes feels. The people aren't all bad, some are my closest friends, but they don't have a choice regarding how they must act. That's to be pitied. Sometimes I feel it is we from the outside who must fight for them. If there is hope, it lies with the Proles, sort of thing

*rant over for now*

Your rant was better than mine.

But anyway yeah, I agree with you. The people aren't bad, the watch tower society tbough are EVIL!

The price of freedom is ostracism and that's worse when you've been born into the cult and your whole life revolves or has been made to revolve the cult.

types of Jehovah's witnesses
-the ones that were probably born.. or in some way forced into the trap...so they pretend when around the witnesses... but outside
-there are the uptight ones that actually believe that someday Jehovah's witnesses will inhabit the earth and all other people will be wiped from existence.
-the hypocrites that always see the fault in others' way of life when they are worse...
-the 'holier than thou' ones.
the last two are probably the ones that make life difficult for the 'disfellowshipped'
only a few are ever gutsy enough to break out of the trapped existence though half of them want to... especially the younger generation.

what a true Jehovah's witness sees around him everywhere are people in need of saving... people that need to accept the 'truth' or face eternal obliteration.... when he sees righteous folk from other doctrines he pities them because the devil has deceived them into wasting their lives in the wrong faith.


religion is just ....funny.

jayriginal:
It is not explicitly forbidden, it is discouraged.

As you said up there unwittingly buttressing my point, spiritual is placed over the material. You further agreed that this world is not yours. My point stands.

As a Christian , you seek first the kingdom of God and all other things will be added to you.
As a Christian , you are being commanded to provide for ur families spiritual, financial and mental development needs.

Tell me, how do you combine these in these present world.
What did jesus say about these world in relation to his followers?

CheKesch:
They mocked him(&sounded just like u do now by saying the JW's told u the end is near some 36 years ago)

According to you, stating a fact - the truth, is mocking.

You will make a good jw.

dolphinheart:
As a Christian , you seek first the kingdom of God and all other things will be added to you.
As a Christian , you are being commanded to provide for ur families spiritual, financial and mental development needs.

Tell me, how do you combine these in these present world.
What did jesus say about these world in relation to his followers?

So getting a higher education is a hindrance right?

You keep making my point.

dolphinheart:
Sir, no one is disfellowshiped if he/she has not done something wrong . She will not be disfellowshiped for no longer associating with the congregation. But as this might be a personal matter, ill prefer we do not go into it.

Yes, personal and private association with you will cease if you being a brother gets disfellowshiped. If you see it as evil, then you see Gods directive in the bible concerning such issues as evil. And would prefer the spirit leaving the entire congregation.
If that shunning does not make you remoseful and attempt to repent and get back into the fold. Then its either you dnt want to be among them or u can't be among them irrespective of being giving birth to by parents who are in the organization . If David had followed the law and not emotion on absaloms issue, probably it would not have been his son who will sleep with his women later.

You did not give details as to the level of ur association with the organization, attending meetings does not make you a member. so I can't comment on that . But I find it not good to feel that their high spiritual standards could be seen as sniping , judgemental and fake smiles. If they change their attitude to you, its not because of who u are but what you have done wrong. But still, remember what I said about people who go overboard issues like this .
On the issue of the organization you now associate with, can you tell me what they do to someone caught sinning repeatedly, eg comitting fornication repeatedly and then being exposed?

Maybe you need to find out what the organization really say about the issues you are having problems with, and if their positions and actions are biblicaly right or wrong. www.jw.org can help out in this assessment. Find out what the bible says should be done to someone who goes against the teachings of the congregation , someone who commits sins , then come back and let's discuss it to see if ur reasons for believing something different from the organization is right or wrong.
By the way, I do presently like the way you discuss .

No Sir, I disagree with you. One can be disfellowshipped because of the follwing reasons (not limited to them tho'):

1) If one questions any of the 'Bible truth' as being propagated by the JW GB.

2) If one gives out his\her daughter in marriage to a non-JW member.

3) If a JW attends a non-Jw religious meeting.

The above are 'crime' in among the JW which will lead to disfellowshipping.

Flytefalls:
I need an anonymous place to restore my sanity from the drama this religion brings to my life periodically.

I'm not an ex JW, I have never been a JW, but even now I am having to deal with the everlasting effects of my mother's disfellowship approximately 20 years ago.

Are there any former JW's, or JW non-baptised escapees, or even those still trapped inside 'the truth' who feel disillusioned here on NL? For myself and my mother, I have questions.

Here. Was a JW for about 7 years. Was never baptized though but I grew sense and left that shyt called religion a long time ago.

Let's talk on BBM or WhatsApp.

dolphinheart:
Sir , hope u no go vex for saying this, but I dnt think someone will be disfellowshiped for having an innocent conversation with a group of the opposite sex. Someone cannot be disfellowshiped based on the witness of just one person.

Though elders do not constitute a judicial committee unless there is a need to do so , but individual elders can perform their functions as shepherds in the congregation, they give advice, encouragement , and if they noticed a disturbing issue, they can talk to the person about it, but this is not a courthlike discussion. Another propable reason for discusing with her might be to know if the so called spy is not deliberately spreading false romours among the members of the congregation , an act that can affect the spiritual harmony in the congregation and should be nipped in the bud immediately.
For the normal thing for the so called spy to do is to approach you first and second time, and if you fail to solve the problem , then the elders can be approached.

They elders do this in respect to jesus order that they should watch over the flock. If an elder does this work wrongly, you can seek advice from someone else.

Ill like to ask the question, was she going to the study to worship God ? If yes, why does she allow other people actions stop her from worshiping God with them. ?

Sir, I also do not think they stopped ur teachings cus they felt u want to make trouble or cus of the questions u where asking , I might be because the person studying with you felt that you already know enough to decide if you want to be in the organization or not and ur actions shows u dnt want to. Pls where do you ask questions , during the study or during cogregational meetings?.

On the shunning issue . Would you reply with ur own view if I give u scriptural proof and examples . Ill quote the scripture and explain my view and ull reply with what you think that scripture is telling or teaching us, would that be ok by you?

Sir, my question is not based on who a catholic is, my question is based on what the catholic authority or church will do to someone caught sinning repeatedly. Eg someone caught having committed fornication for a while , not confessing his sins and he is now caught in the act .

I'm a Catholic and Catholics are only excommunicated for griveous sins. Excommunication simply means you cannot receive the Eucharist without confession. And most excommunications are automatic which means that Catholics themselves will not go to the altar to receive the Eucharist when they know that they have committed a grave sin like adultery. Public excommunications by the bishop or the pope are reserved for hardcore criminals like when the Pope recently announced the excommunication of members of the Italian mafia. Or when high ranking politicians are excommunicated by their bishops for publicly supporting abortion. But the excommunicated people are still allowed to attend Mass and fraternise with other Catholics.

Flytefalls:
I need an anonymous place to restore my sanity from the drama this religion brings to my life periodically.

I'm not an ex JW, I have never been a JW, but even now I am having to deal with the everlasting effects of my mother's disfellowship approximately 20 years ago.

Are there any former JW's, or JW non-baptised escapees, or even those still trapped inside 'the truth' who feel disillusioned here on NL? For myself and my mother, I have questions.

Do you honestly want to speak with a JW? Call or whatsapp me on 0806 335 4170, 0807 584 3820. Trust me, it'll be better than the other options.

dolphinheart:
Sorry for the situation, but I feel you are now having or already have ur opinion that you are not ready to discuss with the use of the bible. And its only with the bible that I can contribute to this discussion.

I'm beginning to think ur opinion of religion is based on peoples thinking and behavior, and the organization does not meet ur expectations. So I'm sorry,pls dnt be vexed, but I have to leave unless you agree to discuss about what the bible say on ur views and mine and why you feel that my views does not conform to bible teachings.

I'm not vexed at all, don't worry. I'm trying to gain information relating to the human experience of being an outcast JW. I've more than enough JW's to talk to if I need a Bible based conversation. Please note that I have nothing against your choice to serve Jehovah from within 'the truth', its your life.

TheFilmmaker:
Here. Was a JW for about 7 years. Was never baptized though but I grew sense and left that shyt called religion a long time ago.

Let's talk on BBM or WhatsApp.

Follow me back and we can PM first.