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Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by plainbibletruth: 9:59pm On Jun 27, 2015
Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice?

Muslim leaders have led their followers into believing things not stated in the Quran. They ignore the Quran and establish their own doctrine. They even go as far as hold on to positions that are even contrary to the Quran.

For example, which son was the promised covenant child to Abraham in his old age; was it Ishmael or Isaac? The Quran points to Isaac – Sura 11: 69-73; 15: 51-53. The Islamic leaders have led their people to believe it was Ishmael. One of them must be wrong. Both of them cannot be correct.

Again, in testing him, which son did God ask Abraham to sacrifice to Him?

In Sura 11: 69-73 we are specifically told the name of the son that Abraham was to get in his old age – Isaac. It was this promised son that Abraham was later tested with to be sacrificed. So when Abraham made the statement in Sura 37: 101-109 it was the ‘righteous son’ that God promised him as per Sura 11: 69-73 – Isaac – that was to be sacrificed.

For some strange inexplicable reasons, perhaps to seek to maintain their closeness to Abraham, many Arab Muslim leaders chose to replace Isaac with their ancestor Ishmael even though his name was never mentioned in relation to being the promised son. They have subsequently led the entire Muslim world to believe that it was Ishmael that was both the promised son and the one to be sacrificed when it was actually Isaac.

Isaac was conceived MIRACULOUSLY to Sarah who had well passed her child bearing age and a very aged Abraham. The Quran agrees with this.

Ishmael on the other hand was conceived NORMALLY without any miraculous intervention.

If any of these conceptions is to be seen as UNIQUE obviously the common sense reasoning will pick that of Isaac, not Ishmael.

Tradition must not be made to supersede God’s revelation.

Ishmael was never the ‘promised’ child.

Through the lineage of Isaac the true sacrificial lamb – Jesus – later came into the world.

“The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!” (John 1:29).
“The next day John was there again with two of his disciples. When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, “Look, the Lamb of God!” (John 1: 35-36).

“For God so loved the world that he gave his ONE AND ONLY SON, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16).

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Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by zyzxx(m): 10:05pm On Jun 27, 2015
hmmm truth can't be change
so simple for the wise
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Orunto: 8:21am On Jun 28, 2015
Ask the athiest.
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Nobody: 8:26am On Jun 28, 2015
I just love it when christians make claims about the Quran but refuse to actually quote the verses they speak of.

1 Like

Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by plainbibletruth: 11:46pm On Jun 28, 2015
DravenCreighton:
I just love it when christians make claims about the Quran but refuse to actually quote the verses they speak of.
Are references quoted not enough?
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Nobody: 5:34am On Jun 29, 2015
plainbibletruth:

Are references quoted not enough?
I'm just saying, why not quote the verses so everyone can see what they say, just saying. grin
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Demmzy15(m): 5:59am On Jun 29, 2015
grin OP dey fear the verse o! grin grin
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by malvisguy212: 6:29am On Jun 29, 2015
DravenCreighton:

I'm just saying, why not quote the verses so everyone can see what they say, just saying. grin
who was sacrificed? Isaac or ishmael ?
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by malvisguy212: 6:31am On Jun 29, 2015
The quran did not give details about everything, Jesus did not even speak His own word in the quran.
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Scholar8200(m): 8:10am On Jun 29, 2015
It was a trial of faith for he who had received great promises concerning a son from his barren wife (who at the time of the test was way beyond 100 and there was no promise of another child after he that was promised) . There is no better source of explanation than that written:

Hebrews 11:17-19
By faith Abraham, when he was put to the test [while the testing of his faith was [d]still in progress], [e]had already brought Isaac for an offering; he who had gladly received and welcomed [God’s] promises was ready to sacrifice his only son,
18 Of whom it was said, Through Isaac shall your descendants be reckoned.
19 For he reasoned that God was able to raise [him] up even from among the dead. Indeed in the sense that Isaac was figuratively dead [potentially sacrificed], he did [actually] receive him back from the dead.

Verse 18 was the real sting of the test! That's why Abraham,in verse 19, did not reason that God would give him another child (even though he had others and Ishmael showed he was not impotent) but would raise up the one of whom He had spoken and made such promises, if death had actually occurred.

Moreover, Sarah was 90 (in chapter 21) when she had Isaac and Genesis 23 records her death at 127 yrs meaning the events between Genesis 21 (when Isaac was born) and 22 was 37 years: long enough for Isaac to had grown and Abraham and Sarah to have aged even more and since the promise of a child had been fulfilled, there was no expectation on the part of Sarah to bear any new ones hence the test of faith.(apart from Ishmael and Isaac, Abraham had other sons after Sarah died meaning the trial of faith was particularly concerning the one of whom God had spoken)
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by plainbibletruth: 8:29am On Jun 29, 2015
DravenCreighton:

I'm just saying, why not quote the verses so everyone can see what they say, just saying. grin

Isaac, as the promised miraculously born child who was later intended for sacrifice, is specifically named in the Bible and the Quran. Ishmael, on the other hand, is not mentioned as such a one. It is Muslim scholars who INFER the name of Ishmael as the intended son for sacrifice. 

Even the oldest Islamic tradition claim that the son intended for sacrifice was Isaac. It was much later, when the figure of Ishmael was more firmly established as the forebearer of a number of the Arab people, that Isaac, as the intended sacrifice, was jettisoned for Ishmael.

See this:
Sura 11:69-73

Sahih International
And certainly did Our messengers come to Abraham with good tidings; they said, "Peace." He said, "Peace," and did not delay in bringing [them] a roasted calf.

But when he saw their hands not reaching for it, he distrusted them and felt from them apprehension. They said, "Fear not. We have been sent to the people of Lot."

And his Wife was standing, and she smiled. Then We gave her good tidings of Isaac and after Isaac, Jacob.

She said, "Woe to me! Shall I give birth while I am an old woman and this, my husband, is an old man? Indeed, this is an amazing thing!"

They said, "Are you amazed at the decree of Allah ? May the mercy of Allah and His blessings be upon you, people of the house. Indeed, He is Praiseworthy and Honorable."

I hope quoting this verse has pacified you. 

1 Like

Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Nobody: 4:34pm On Jun 29, 2015
plainbibletruth:


Isaac, as the promised miraculously born child who was later intended for sacrifice, is specifically named in the Bible and the Quran. Ishmael, on the other hand, is not mentioned as such a one. It is Muslim scholars who INFER the name of Ishmael as the intended son for sacrifice. 

Even the oldest Islamic tradition claim that the son intended for sacrifice was Isaac. It was much later, when the figure of Ishmael was more firmly established as the forebearer of a number of the Arab people, that Isaac, as the intended sacrifice, was jettisoned for Ishmael.

See this:
Sura 11:69-73

Sahih International
And certainly did Our messengers come to Abraham with good tidings; they said, "Peace." He said, "Peace," and did not delay in bringing [them] a roasted calf.

But when he saw their hands not reaching for it, he distrusted them and felt from them apprehension. They said, "Fear not. We have been sent to the people of Lot."

And his Wife was standing, and she smiled. Then We gave her good tidings of Isaac and after Isaac, Jacob.

She said, "Woe to me! Shall I give birth while I am an old woman and this, my husband, is an old man? Indeed, this is an amazing thing!"

They said, "Are you amazed at the decree of Allah ? May the mercy of Allah and His blessings be upon you, people of the house. Indeed, He is Praiseworthy and Honorable."

I hope quoting this verse has pacified you. 



Surah Hud 11:69-73 | Intro | Display | Recite |
وَلَقَدۡ جَآءَتۡ رُسُلُنَاۤ اِبۡرٰهِيۡمَ بِالۡبُشۡرٰى قَالُوۡا سَلٰمًا​ ؕ قَالَ سَلٰمٌ​ فَمَا لَبِثَ اَنۡ جَآءَ بِعِجۡلٍ حَنِيۡذٍ‏ 
(11:69) Indeed Our messengers came to Abraham, bearing glad tidings. They greeted him with 'peace', and Abraham answered back to them 'peace', and hurriedly brought to them a roasted calf.75
75. This shows that the angels had come to Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him) in the form of human beings and had not disclosed their identity. Therefore he took them for strangers and brought a roasted calf for their entertainment.

فَلَمَّا رَاٰۤ اَيۡدِيَهُمۡ لَا تَصِلُ اِلَيۡهِ نَـكِرَهُمۡ وَاَوۡجَسَ مِنۡهُمۡ خِيۡفَةً​  ؕ قَالُوۡا لَا تَخَفۡ اِنَّاۤ اُرۡسِلۡنَاۤ اِلٰى قَوۡمِ لُوۡطٍ ؕ‏ 
(11:70) When he perceived that their hands could not reach it, he mistrusted them, and felt afraid of them.76 They said: 'Do not be afraid. We have been sent to the people of Lot.77
76. Some commentators are of the view that Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him) was afraid of them because of their refusal to eat his meal. He had concluded that they had come to him with some evil intention. For, according to the Arab tradition, if some strangers refused hospitality, it meant that they had not come as guests but as enemies to plunder. But this view is not supported by the succeeding verse.

77. The wording of their answer shows that Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him) had understood from their refusal to eat that they were angels. But he was afraid of their visit because he knew that the coming of the angels in the human shape did not bode well: So he was fearful that they might have come to take them to task for some offense committed by the people of his household or of his habitation or by himself. Had it been the same thing that the commentators presumed, then their answer should have been, “Don’t fear us for we are angels from your Lord.” But the answer they gave to remove his fear, “Don’t have any fear for we have been sent to the people of Lot (and not to you),” shows that Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him) knew that they were angels but was troubled in his mind as to the reason of their visit in the human form. This was because the angels came in human form when some one was either to be put to a hard trial or punished severely for some offense.

وَامۡرَاَ تُهٗ قَآٮِٕمَةٌ فَضَحِكَتۡ فَبَشَّرۡنٰهَا بِاِسۡحٰقَ ۙ وَمِنۡ وَّرَآءِ اِسۡحٰقَ يَعۡقُوۡبَ‏ 
(11:71) And Abraham's wife was standing by and on hearing this she laughed.78 And We gave her the good news of (the birth of) Isaac, and after Isaac, of Jacob.79
78. It appears from this that the news of the visit of the angels in the human form had made the people of the house uneasy. So Prophet Abraham’s Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him) wife had also come there to know what the matter was. She laughed with joy when she learned that the angels were sent not to punish their people but the people of Lot (peace be upon him).

79. The angels told the good news of a son to Sarah instead of Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him) because he already had a son, Ismail from Hajirah but had no child from her. Therefore to remove her sorrow they told her the good news that a son, Isaac, will be born to her, who will have a son, Jacob, both of whom will be great Messengers of Allah.

قَالَتۡ يٰوَيۡلَتٰٓى ءَاَلِدُ وَاَنَا عَجُوۡزٌ وَّهٰذَا بَعۡلِىۡ شَيۡخًا ​ؕ اِنَّ هٰذَا لَشَىۡءٌ عَجِيۡبٌ‏ 
(11:72) She said: 'Woe is me!80 Shall I bear a child now that I am an old woman and my husband is well advanced in years.81 This is indeed strange!'
80. These words were not used by her in their literal sense as an exclamation of grief and lamentation. She uttered these words merely to express surprise at the news.

81. According to the Bible Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him) was 100 years old at the time and Sarah was 90 years.

قَالُوۡۤا اَتَعۡجَبِيۡنَ مِنۡ اَمۡرِ اللّٰهِ​ رَحۡمَتُ اللّٰهِ وَبَرَكٰتُهٗ عَلَيۡكُمۡ اَهۡلَ الۡبَيۡتِ​ؕ اِنَّهٗ حَمِيۡدٌ مَّجِيۡدٌ‏ 
(11:73) They said: 'Do you wonder at Allah's decree?82 Allah's mercy and His blessings be upon you, O people of the house. Surely, He is Praiseworthy, Glorious.'
82. The question was posed to her to remind her that though people of old age do not bear children, it is not beyond Allah’s power to bring this about. Therefore a true believer like her should not show any surprise at the good news when it is conveyed to her from Allah.

Surah Hud 11:69-73

2 Likes

Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Nobody: 4:36pm On Jun 29, 2015
malvisguy212:
who was sacrificed? Isaac or ishmael ?


The ever ignorant malvis. None of them was sacrificed mate.

1 Like

Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by basilico: 4:55pm On Jun 29, 2015
You fall for a mad man possessed . Arabs didn't come from Ishmael. Ishmael married an Egyptian, lived in Paran or Negev desert And never ever showed up in Mecca. It was zmuhzmbzd that paedophilia prophet who decided that he descended from ishmael.

2 Likes

Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Nobody: 5:25pm On Jun 29, 2015
basilico:
You fall for a mad man possessed . Arabs didn't come from Ishmael. Ishmael married an Egyptian, lived in Paran or Negev desert And never ever showed up in Mecca. It was zmuhzmbzd that paedophilia prophet who decided that he descended from ishmael.

Ok
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by malvisguy212: 6:04pm On Jun 29, 2015
DravenCreighton:



The ever ignorant malvis. None of them was sacrificed mate.
in other word ,You don't know because the quran never provide All the story.
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Demmzy15(m): 6:11pm On Jun 29, 2015
plainbibletruth:


Isaac, as the promised miraculously born child who was later intended for sacrifice, is specifically named in the Bible and the Quran. Ishmael, on the other hand, is not mentioned as such a one. It is Muslim scholars who INFER the name of Ishmael as the intended son for sacrifice. 

Even the oldest Islamic tradition claim that the son intended for sacrifice was Isaac. It was much later, when the figure of Ishmael was more firmly established as the forebearer of a number of the Arab people, that Isaac, as the intended sacrifice, was jettisoned for Ishmael.

See this:
Sura 11:69-73

Sahih International
And certainly did Our messengers come to Abraham with good tidings; they said, "Peace." He said, "Peace," and did not delay in bringing [them] a roasted calf.

But when he saw their hands not reaching for it, he distrusted them and felt from them apprehension. They said, "Fear not. We have been sent to the people of Lot."

And his Wife was standing, and she smiled. Then We gave her good tidings of Isaac and after Isaac, Jacob.

She said, "Woe to me! Shall I give birth while I am an old woman and this, my husband, is an old man? Indeed, this is an amazing thing!"

They said, "Are you amazed at the decree of Allah ? May the mercy of Allah and His blessings be upon you, people of the house. Indeed, He is Praiseworthy and Honorable."

I hope quoting this verse has pacified you. 
malvisguy212:
in other word ,You don't know because the quran never provide All the story.
It's Ishmael not Isaac.
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Nobody: 7:02pm On Jun 29, 2015
malvisguy212:
in other word ,You don't know because the quran never provide All the story.

No, in other words none of them was sacrificed.
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Nobody: 7:02pm On Jun 29, 2015
Demmzy15:


It's Ishmael not Isaac.

Ishmael wasn't sacrificed.
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Demmzy15(m): 7:06pm On Jun 29, 2015
DravenCreighton:


Ishmael wasn't sacrificed.
Yh he wasn't sacrificed but was a test given to Abraham.

101. So We gave him the good news of a forbearing son.
102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills, one of the steadfast!" Qur’an 33
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Nobody: 7:23pm On Jun 29, 2015
Demmzy15:

Yh he wasn't sacrificed but was a test given to Abraham.

101. So We gave him the good news of a forbearing son.
102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills, one of the steadfast!" Qur’an 33


Like I said, he wasn't sacrificed.
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by plainbibletruth: 10:18pm On Jun 29, 2015
Demmzy15:


It's Ishmael not Isaac.

You saw Isaac stated in the verse I quoted didn't you?

1 Like

Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Demmzy15(m): 11:18pm On Jun 29, 2015
plainbibletruth:


You saw Isaac stated in the verse I quoted didn't you?
The verse you stated doesn't support your view, Isaac is a Prophet and his birth is a glad tiding. The verse didn't lay any emphasis on the sacrifice in which God used to test Abraham, it's Ishmael not Isaac!
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Nobody: 6:31am On Jun 30, 2015
Demmzy15:

The verse you stated doesn't support your view, Isaac is a Prophet and his birth is a glad tiding. The verse didn't lay any emphasis on the sacrifice in which God used to test Abraham, it's Ishmael not Isaac!

He's a confused man. He insists on teaching muslims how to interpret the Quran, lol! He once quoted a verse for me and because the verse spoke of Isaac and Jacob but not Ishmael he says it means Ishmael was not a prophet, lol! Christian logic. The guy is a clown.
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by plainbibletruth: 7:27am On Jun 30, 2015
DravenCreighton:


He's a confused man. He insists on teaching muslims how to interpret the Quran, lol! He once quoted a verse for me and because the verse spoke of Isaac and Jacob but not Ishmael he says it means Ishmael was not a prophet, lol! Christian logic. The guy is a clown.

Demmzy15:

The verse you stated doesn't support your view, Isaac is a Prophet and his birth is a glad tiding. The verse didn't lay any emphasis on the sacrifice in which God used to test Abraham, it's Ishmael not Isaac!

It's really simple. If you claim it is Ishmael show us.

Bad-mouthing is not what wins arguments it's good reasoning.

Now since you're criticizing my 'Christian logic' I ask you to use your 'Islamic logic' to answer: where did the Quran state that it was Ishmael? Show us!
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Nobody: 7:39am On Jun 30, 2015
plainbibletruth:




It's really simple. If you claim it is Ishmael show us.

Bad-mouthing is not what wins arguments it's good reasoning.

Now since you're criticizing my 'Christian logic' I ask you to use your 'Islamic logic' to answer: where did the Quran state that it was Ishmael? Show us!


Argument? This isn't an argument, this is a comedy show. Read:

99. He said: "I will go to my Lord! He will surely guide me!
100. "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
101. So We gave him the good news of a forbearing son.
102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills, one of the steadfast!"
103. So when they had both submitted (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
104. We called out to him "O Abraham! ...
105. "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
106. For this was a clear trial-
107. And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
108. And We left for him among generations (to come) in later times:
109. "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
110. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
111. For he was one of Our believing Servants.
112. And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.
113. We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to themselves.


It is very obvious that, in this passage, there are two distinct good news, the first one about a forbearing son (the one to be sacrificed) and the second one about Isaac(P). Thus, the sacrificed cannot be Isaac(P) at least not according to the Qur'ân. But, once again, plainbibletruth avoided (willingly?) to quote the full passage and this is frequently his way of doing things.


Indeed verse 21:85 reads
"And (remember) Ishmael, Idris, and Zulkifl, all (men) of constancy and patience".

2 Likes

Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by plainbibletruth: 8:31am On Jun 30, 2015
[size=5pt]
DravenCreighton:



Argument? This isn't an argument, this is a comedy show. Read:

99. He said: "I will go to my Lord! He will surely guide me!
100. "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
101. So We gave him the good news of a forbearing son.
102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills, one of the steadfast!"
103. So when they had both submitted (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
104. We called out to him "O Abraham! ...
105. "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
106. For this was a clear trial-
107. And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
108. And We left for him among generations (to come) in later times:
109. "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
110. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
111. For he was one of Our believing Servants.
112. And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.
113. We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to themselves.


It is very obvious that, in this passage, there are two distinct good news, the first one about a forbearing son (the one to be sacrificed) and the second one about Isaac(P). Thus, the sacrificed cannot be Isaac(P) at least not according to the Qur'ân. But, once again, plainbibletruth avoided (willingly?) to quote the full passage and this is frequently his way of doing things.


Indeed verse 21:85 reads
"And (remember) Ishmael, Idris, and Zulkifl, all (men) of constancy and patience".
[/size]

If this is how much you can come up with I can only smh!

First, you did not show where the name of Ishmael was mentioned in the Sura 37 you quoted. 

Secondly, you are quoting ONE passage, and in spite of the fact that the passage NEVER said so, you now INGENIOUSLY come up with the statement that: 
"It is very obvious that, in this passage, there are two distinct good news"

If it is 'obvious' shouldn't we see it? Are you the one to create the obviousness?

Even if it is obvious that there are two distinct 'good news', what in the passage makes you think they are not related to the same one person?

What is obvious, mr man, is that Isaac's name is SPECIFICALLY mentioned. Ishmael' name is not. 

However so as to make it 'obvious' you then turn to another ENTIRELY DIFFERENT passage where Ishmael is mentioned and you quote it WITHOUT SHOWING how that passage relates to the first where his name was never mentioned. What a 'logic'!

It is clear from the Quran that Abraham asked for a son. 
It is also clear that Sarah was involved.  
It is clear that the Quran states that: "we gave him.......Isaac" and "we blessed him and Isaac" 


If Abraham and Sarah are involved who is their son? Obviously Isaac. 

So can we find Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael in ALL these? The simple answer is: No

Did the Quran explicitly state that it cannot be Isaac? The simple answer again is: No. 

Does this your quote:
"Indeed verse 21:85 reads
"And (remember) Ishmael, Idris, and Zulkifl, all (men) of constancy and patience".
have anything to do with Ishmael being either the promised son or the one intended for sacrifice or connected to Sura 11 or Sura 37? 
The answer again is: No

So please take my points one by one and show the world how I avoid 'full passage' and how the entirely different passage you took adds to the one we are looking at to make it "FULL". 

What should be OBVIOUS to you is that it was 'the righteous son' Abraham asked God and God gave to him that was later asked to be sacrificed! And that son was Isaac!

1 Like

Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Demmzy15(m): 9:31am On Jun 30, 2015
plainbibletruth:




It's really simple. If you claim it is Ishmael show us.

Bad-mouthing is not what wins arguments it's good reasoning.

Now since you're criticizing my 'Christian logic' I ask you to use your 'Islamic logic' to answer: where did the Quran state that it was Ishmael? Show us!
Would you read it if I do?!
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by plainbibletruth: 10:05am On Jun 30, 2015
Demmzy15:

Would you read it if I do?!

I read Draven's own post which I responded to above; didn't I?

Reading is no issue, is it?
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by 1shortblackboy: 10:21am On Jun 30, 2015
Na who go gree for the other person own ? undecided
Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Demmzy15(m): 10:27am On Jun 30, 2015
plainbibletruth:


I read Draven's own post which I responded to above; didn't I?

Reading is no issue, is it?
99. He said: "I will go to my Lord! He will surely guide me
100. "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
101. So We gave him the good news of a forbearing son.
102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills, one of the steadfast!"
103. So when they had both submitted (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
104. We called out to him "O Abraham! ...
105. "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right. Qur’an 37

Points You Should Consider

. It is well known that Abraham(P) got his first child in his old days (more than 80 years old). By all means, when he was given the news of his first son, Ishmael(P), the news were great and not only good. It seems reasonable to think that the news of having his second son, Isaac(P) would be equal or less because in the first time the surprise factor has certainly increased his happiness.

. More to the point, using the same argument as the opposition, one can safely say that the sacrificed was described as forbearing and steadfast in the Qur'ân and if we search the whole Qur'ân we will find the name of Ishmael(P) associated to patience and steadfastness and not Isaac(P)!

. Indeed verse 21:85 (in red) reads
"And (remember) Ishmael, Idris, and Zulkifl, all (men) of constancy and patience".

The points DravenCreighton mentioned were very clear, lemme try and explain better!

There are two distinct news contained in the verse, the birth of Isaac happens after the supposed sacrifice was to be done(even the Bible shows that). When you go a little further to verse 112-113 of the same Chapter, you'll find the second news. One happened before Isaac was born and the other was the good news of Isaac's birth.

107. And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
108. And We left for him among generations (to come) in later times:
109. "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
110. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
111. For he was one of Our believing Servants.
112. And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.
113. We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to themselves.

So Qur’an 37: 99-113 shows 2 distinct favours, here is a full recap. The favor with Ishmael(when Isaac wasn't even born) is in red emphasis and that of Isaac is in blue:

[b]9. He said: "I will go to my Lord! He will surely guide me!
100. "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
101. So We gave him the good news of a forbearing son.
102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills, one of the steadfast!"
103. So when they had both submitted (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
104. We called out to him "O Abraham! ...
105. "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
106. For this was a clear trial-
107. And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
108. And We left for him among generations (to come) in later times:
109. "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
110. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
111. For he was one of Our believing Servants.
112. And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.
113. We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to themselves.[/b]

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Re: Which Son Did God Ask Abraham To Sacrifice? by Scholar8200(m): 11:10am On Jun 30, 2015
Demmzy15:

99. He said: "I will go to my Lord! He will surely guide me
100. "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
101. So We gave him the good news of a forbearing son.
102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills, one of the steadfast!"
103. So when they had both submitted (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
104. We called out to him "O Abraham! ...
105. "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right. Qur’an 37

Points You Should Consider

. It is well known that Abraham(P) got his first child in his old days (more than 80 years old). By all means, when he was given the news of his first son, Ishmael(P), the news were great and not only good. It seems reasonable to think that the news of having his second son, Isaac(P) would be equal or less because in the first time the surprise factor has certainly increased his happiness.

. More to the point, using the same argument as the opposition, one can safely say that the sacrificed was described as forbearing and steadfast in the Qur'ân and if we search the whole Qur'ân we will find the name of Ishmael(P) associated to patience and steadfastness and not Isaac(P)!

. Indeed verse 21:85 (in red) reads
"And (remember) Ishmael, Idris, and Zulkifl, all (men) of constancy and patience".

The points DravenCreighton mentioned were very clear, lemme try and explain better!

There are two distinct news contained in the verse, the birth of Isaac happens after the supposed sacrifice was to be done(even the Bible shows that). When you go a little further to verse 112-113 of the same Chapter, you'll find the second news. One happened before Isaac was born and the other was the good news of Isaac's birth.

107. And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
108. And We left for him among generations (to come) in later times:
109. "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
110. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
111. For he was one of Our believing Servants.
112. And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.
113. We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to themselves.

So Qur’an 37: 99-113 shows 2 distinct favours, here is a full recap. The favor with Ishmael(when Isaac wasn't even born) is in red emphasis and that of Isaac is in blue:

[b]9. He said: "I will go to my Lord! He will surely guide me!
100. "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
101. So We gave him the good news of a forbearing son.
102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills, one of the steadfast!"
103. So when they had both submitted (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
104. We called out to him "O Abraham! ...
105. "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
106. For this was a clear trial-
107. And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
108. And We left for him among generations (to come) in later times:
109. "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
110. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
111. For he was one of Our believing Servants.
112. And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.
113. We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to themselves.[/b]
The passages above suggests that the promise of Isaac came after Ishmael was born.

Am I right? If yes, who (or which seed) was the reference in Genesis 15:4 spoken before the birth of both men:

4 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir

Context:Genesis 15:2,3
2 And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus? 3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

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