₦airaland Forum

Jeromejnr:
You've not answered it sir.

And who do you know the writer of Job is? Scholars say it could be one of his friends.

And was it Solomon himself that took a pen and wrote down Eccl or was it someone else that wrote what he might have said?

You see there is no basis to what you've been saying. Your just assuming tins.

I've answered ur question on job.

I Wunt go into the issue of writers cus I feel it will only distract us from the main issue we are discussing . And that is where does the spirit go after death?.

@MuttleyLaff

Why does thou waste thy time?

You will end up just going in circles and not reach anywhere with her.

Jeromejnr:
Loool.

It's obvious you have no concrete argument again because I just dissected the scriptures for you.

So as a result you've resorted to assumptions and absurd claims.

Don't worry I understand.

And for all you wrote up there, I would have dissected them once again for you, but seeing I will just be talking to a hardened heart who is bent on twisting things to your favor, I put my pen down.

She destroyed your argument .

2 things are right From her posts

1) if jesus is spirit living in flesh , then only the flesh he put on died , while he himself didnt die ? Reason , she is trying to let you think logically .

2) if jesus died a spiritual death , he is a sinner . You and I know that spiritually dead is used to describe sinners .

MizJanet:
Two Gods, Really?

One God, who can be at more than one place at the same time.

Let me bring it home to you, more down to where you can relate with this, without it going over your head

Think of Agent Smith. Hmm, yeah, something like him only that Agent Smith isnt divine.

MizJanet:
A God dies while the other God is alive .

I think everyone is now accustomed to your legendary display of ignorance

After helping you modifying your remark, yes, in a roundabout way, you actually are right ''God dies while the same God is alive''
but hey, am going to feed your ignorance a bit, please dont to choke on it, else you'll throw up
God in the person of God the Son, Jesus Christ who came as man with the divine nature,
obviously as a human being, died a biological death, the spirit/breath left Him, after He exhaled and drew His last breath
so the fact is, it wasnt the death of God the Father, who is Spirit and a totally divine being who died

Jozzy4:
She destroyed your argument .

2 things are right From her posts

1) if jesus is spirit living in flesh , then only the flesh he put on died , while he himself didnt die ? Reason , she is trying to let you think logically .

2) if jesus died a spiritual death , he is a sinner . You and I know that spiritually dead is used to describe sinners .

which camp are you? Atheist or believer?

So yes you are right.

1. When you answer the question I posed up there, then I will know how to answer your question according to your perspective.

2. Yes Jesus became sin.

@ Cor 5:21 "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

Is 53:12 "Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

Rom 4:25 "He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification."

Rom 8:3 "For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,"

So to answer your question, yes He became sin. He became as a sinner. Even though it wasn't His own sin:

Is 53:6 "But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him

That was why He experienced all the forms of death.

So how did she destroy my arguement again?

Jeromejnr:
And I've long answered this question u asked. But you've refused to get it.

My spirit (the real me) came directly from God and existed in eternity before even creation of the world in the mind of God.

I was only just given a form in the flesh when I was In my Mothers womb.
As God said"before you were born I knew you and formed you in your mothers womb."

What is the second death? Final separation of spirits from God in the eternal lake of fire.

Death does not mean loss of consciousness as you are accustomed to, but falling from grace.

You talking that way because you are very used to physical death and all you think of is a loss of consciousness.

When Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus, were they unconscious?.

No you have not answered the questions sir.
Where does the bible say the spirit goes after death.

Does the bible say the spirit die?.

My question is, when did that your spirit enter ur form in flesh.
The scripture you quoted said nothing about ur spirit.

What does the bible say happens to you when you die ? Does the bible say you lose consciousness?

dolphinheart:
No you have not answered the questions sir.
Where does the bible say the spirit goes after death.

Does the bible say the spirit die?.

My question is, when did that your spirit enter ur form in flesh.
The scripture you quoted said nothing about ur spirit.

What does the bible say happens to you when you die ? Does the bible say you lose consciousness?

Okay,Okay,

Lets trace our steps back. What point are you trying to drive at? cause I have been debating with so many ppl I dont even remember why we even started this debate.

What are we trying to reason at now?

dolphinheart:
No you have not answered the questions sir.
Where does the bible say the spirit goes after death.

Does the bible say the spirit die?.

My question is, when did that your spirit enter ur form in flesh.
The scripture you quoted said nothing about ur spirit.

What does the bible say happens to you when you die ? Does the bible say you lose consciousness?

Jeromejnr:
Okay, Okay, Lets trace our steps back.
What point are you trying to drive at? cause I have been debating with so many ppl I dont even remember why we even started this debate.

What are we trying to reason at now?

dolphinheart, Ol boy, go over all the posts submitted today,
all you've repeated above have been abundantly and judiciously answered and backed up with various and all kinds of verses.

Dont say you want to be spoon-fed, or is it you want it bottled up as milk. Haba.

Jeromejnr:
which camp are you? Atheist or believer?

So yes you are right.

1. When you answer the question I posed up there, then I will know how to answer your question according to your perspective.

Dont be scared , am a Beliver

2. Yes Jesus became sin.

@ Cor 5:21 "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

Is 53:12 "Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

Rom 4:25 "He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification."

Rom 8:3 "For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did

Again: None of this verses say jesus is a sinner , so how could he be spiritually dead ?

Jozzy4:
Dont be scared , am a Beliver



Again: None of this verses say jesus is a sinner , so how could he be spiritually dead ?

Then I see where your problem is.

Where is the root of sin? The flesh or the spirit?

Do you even know the meaning of atonement? no I guess not.

Btw. when a baby is born, is the spirit of the baby spiritually dead or alive? If you say alive then you contradict the scriptures.

When ppl say unbelievers are spiritually dead, is it because of stealing,murder, lying e.t.c. or because of who they are in the spirit? or why is it one needs to be born again? is it of the spirit or flesh? why is it when when after being born again commits a sin, he is not considered spiritually dead?

If you think sin is all about committing some immoral acts, then why is it that "good" people who don't do such but don't ever get born again will still go to hell? Remember it is said doing good works will not save anyone.

Why? because of the spiritually dead nature in them which can't stand in the presence of God.

When Jesus said "you are of your father the devil..." how is it that the devil was their father? was it a spiritual birthing or a physical one?

So if Jesus never committed sins(i.e the immoral acts) but took our sin (the personality of sin. Who we are by nature of birth) and bore it. Then why do you think He didn't experience the spiritual death?

Jeromejnr:
Then I see where your problem is.

Where is the root of sin? The flesh or the spirit?

Do you even know the meaning of atonement? no I guess not.

Btw. when a baby is born, is the spirit of the baby spiritually dead or alive? If you say alive then you contradict the scriptures.

When ppl say unbelievers are spiritually dead, is it because of stealing,murder, lying e.t.c. or because of who they are in the spirit? or why is it one needs to be born again? is it of the spirit or flesh? why is it when when after being born again commits a sin, he is not considered spiritually dead?

If you think sin is all about committing some immoral acts,

Why? Because of the spiritually dead nature in them which can't stand in the presence of God

Man, keep running in circles .

Lie @ underlined, Jesus wasnt conceive in sin , not by sexual intercourse , he didnt inherit sin , therefore has no spiritually dead NATURE

Jozzy4:
Man, keep running in circles .

Lie @ underlined, Jesus wasnt conceive in sin , not by sexual intercourse , he didnt inherit sin , therefore has no spiritually dead nature

Chai! shake my head for you man.

Has anyone in this galaxy ever said Jesus was conceived in sin?

That was why I said you didn't know the meaning of atonement. Go and do a research.

Jeromejnr:
Chai! shake my head for you man.

Has anyone in this galaxy ever said Jesus was conceived in sin?

That was why I said you didn't know the meaning of atonement. Go and do a research.

You gat no prove that jesus was spiritually dead .

Guy , We have a spiritually dead nature because we are conceived in sin , is Jesus conceived in sin ?

A sinless man is spiritually dead ?

Jozzy4:
You gat no prove that jesus was spiritually dead .

Guy , We have a spiritually dead nature because we are conceived in sin , is Jesus conceived in sin ?

A sinless man is spiritually dead ?

(Romans 3:21–22). Through our faith in Christ, the righteousness of God is given to us. This is called “imputed” righteousness. To impute something is to ascribe or attribute something to someone. When we place our faith in Christ, God ascribes the perfect righteousness of Christ to our account so that we become perfect in His sight. “For our sake he made him [Jesus] to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Not only is Christ’s righteousness imputed to us through faith, but our sin is imputed to Christ.

So from this how do we become righteous in our spirits, where we conceived in righteousness for us to be righteous and was Jesus also conceived in sin? Then how did that exchange come about?

I keep giving you scriptures and you keep giving me your own opinions.

Go and do your research on atonement and come back.

Jozzy4:
Dont be scared, am a Beliver

You are slacking if you trully and really are a believer.
Brush up the bible man, seems you're at risks of developing truth decay

Jozzy4:
Again: None of this verses say Jesus is a sinner

Of course, none says Jesus is a sinner,
nor has anyone here or elsewhere suggested that Jesus was or is a sinner

Jozzy4:
so how could he be spiritually dead

Jesus wasnt spiritually dead
How can He have ever be spiritually dead, if in Luke 23:46 He cried with a loud voice saying:
"Father, into your hands I commit my spirit."

Note, this is not to say he later didnt die spiritually, as He did, when He gave up the breath/spirit

Remember the saying: the life of the flesh is in the blood and the life of the soul is in the breath/spirit

Moving on a bit, out of seven words uttered on the cross, the dying last four words of Jesus Christ were:
4) Matthew 27:46 & Mark 15:34 - My God, My God, ...
5) John 19:28 - I thirst.
6) John 19:30 - It is finished (or "It is accomplished'')
7) Luke 23:46 - Father, into your hands I commit my spirit

Please note these above verses informs us of the dying moments of Jesus Christ on the cross
it however, are verses like Mark 15:37, Luke 23:46 and John 19:30 that emphatically shows us how and when Jesus died spiritually

Mark 15:37
Then Jesus uttered another loud cry and breathed his last.

Luke 23:46
Jesus called out with a loud voice,
"Father, into your hands I commit my spirit."
When he had said this, he breathed his last

John 19:30
When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished."
With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Jozzy4 hope you noticed among the above verses how and to whom Jesus Christ surrendered or succumbed His spirit to

@ jeromejnr
@ jozzy4
@ mizjanet
@ muttleylaff

My understanding of who man is , the spirit in man and what happens at death. (part 1)

The scriptures says these at the creation of adam, the first man.

"And the LORD God formed
man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils
the breath of life; and man
became a living soul." -Gen 2:7
From this verse above, I Learnt the following.
(a) that man is formed from the dust.
(b)the verse did not say man came into the body or God blew man into the body.
(c) that the spirit in man can be described as the breathe of life (d) that man was in existence before breathe came into him , though he did not have life.
(e) that god formed our flesh from dust.
(that that man was not giving a soul but became a soul.

Later , after judgement was passed on to the man cus he sinned, the process at which he came alive was reversed which showed to me that death is the opposite of life.

By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” - Gen 3: 19.

I learnt that
(a) man came from the dust and no where else .for that verse says "from it you "(the man, adam) "where taken".
(b) the verse did not say "part of you came from the dust" nor did it say " I remove you from that dust I formed".
(c) the verse re emphasised the " you" and "dust" again by stating " for dust you are " .this shows again that the "you"(man/adam) is dust .
(d) this dust was formed into flesh by God and made a soul(become alive) by blowing the breathe of life into it .
(e)that this process is reversed when that breathe/spirit leaves the flesh and this process is called dying , with the end called death.
(f) that at death, man/adam returns to dust and no where else for God told adam in that verse " to dust you(adam/man) will return ".

With that understanding of the creation of man, what man is and what happens to him at death, I now go further into the scriptures to 1. Find additional points to surpport this views and 2. Find out the condition of man after death.

"And, behold, I, even I, do bring
a flood of waters upon the
earth, to destroy all flesh,
wherein is the breath of life,
from under heaven; and every
thing that is in the earth shall
die." - Gen 6:17.

The verse above shows that the flesh that is living has the breathe of life /spirit in it .

"And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."- Gen 6:3

This verse shows me that
(a) God refers to man as "flesh", not as "spirit which is present in man" or as "spirit".
(b) other translations use " only flesh " "mortal " "he is flesh"



"And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.- Gen 6:12

This verse helps me understand that
(a) again God who created man called man "flesh" and not "spirit in flesh" or "spirit" . God specifically said "flesh"
(b) that it is the flesh that will be purnished .
(c) that adding this with the initial quotes , that flesh will be purnished with the reversal of live , which is death.

To surpport this view other writers said thus below:

"For he remembered that they
were but flesh; a wind that
passeth away, and cometh not
again."

"He remembered that they
were only flesh, a wind that
passes and does not return."- ps 78: 39

" as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed
our transgressions from us.
As a father has compassion on his children, so the LORD has
compassion on those who fear him; for he knows how we
are formed, he remembers that we are dust.
The life of mortals is like grass,
they flourish like a flower of the field;" - ps 103: 13-15

We are dust, we are mortals, we are flesh .

"For all flesh is as grass, and
all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord
endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. - 1 pet 1: 24,25.

"For the LORD will execute
judgment by fire And by His
sword on all flesh, And those
slain by the LORD will be
many."

"For by fire and by his sword
will the LORD plead with all
flesh: and the slain of the
LORD shall be many." - isa 66 :16

"And all flesh shall see the
salvation of God." Luke 3:6

Note: it is not derived , god said man is flesh.

To be continued in my next post

dolphinheart:
@ jeromejnr
@ jozzy4
@ mizjanet
@ muttleylaff

My understanding of who man is , the spirit in man and what happens at death. (part 1)

The scriptures says these at the creation of adam, the first man.

"And the LORD God formed
man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils
the breath of life; and man
became a living soul." -Gen 2:7
From this verse above, I Learnt the following.
(a) that man is formed from the dust.
(b)the verse did not say man came into the body or God blew man into the body.
(c) that the spirit in man can be described as the breathe of life (d) that man was in existence before breathe came into him , though he did not have life.
(e) that god formed our flesh from dust.
(that that man was not giving a soul but became a soul.

Later , after judgement was passed on to the man cus he sinned, the process at which he came alive was reversed which showed to me that death is the opposite of life.

By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” - Gen 3: 19.

I learnt that
(a) man came from the dust and no where else .for that verse says "from it you "(the man, adam) "where taken".
(b) the verse did not say "part of you came from the dust" nor did it say " I remove you from that dust I formed".
(c) the verse re emphasised the " you" and "dust" again by stating " for dust you are " .this shows again that the "you"(man/adam) is dust .
(d) this dust was formed into flesh by God and made a soul(become alive) by blowing the breathe of life into it .
(e)that this process is reversed when that breathe/spirit leaves the flesh and this process is called dying , with the end called death.
(f) that at death, man/adam returns to dust and no where else for God told adam in that verse " to dust you(adam/man) will return ".

With that understanding of the creation of man, what man is and what happens to him at death, I now go further into the scriptures to 1. Find additional points to surpport this views and 2. Find out the condition of man after death.

"And, behold, I, even I, do bring
a flood of waters upon the
earth, to destroy all flesh,
wherein is the breath of life,
from under heaven; and every
thing that is in the earth shall
die." - Gen 6:17.

The verse above shows that the flesh that is living has the breathe of life /spirit in it .

"And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."- Gen 6:3

This verse shows me that
(a) God refers to man as "flesh", not as "spirit which is present in man" or as "spirit".
(b) other translations use " only flesh " "mortal " "he is flesh"

"And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.- Gen 6:12

This verse helps me understand that
(a) again God who created man called man "flesh" and not "spirit in flesh" or "spirit" . God specifically said "flesh"
(b) that it is the flesh that will be purnished .
(c) that adding this with the initial quotes , that flesh will be purnished with the reversal of live , which is death.

To surpport this view other writers said thus below:

"For he remembered that they
were but flesh; a wind that
passeth away, and cometh not
again."

"He remembered that they
were only flesh, a wind that
passes and does not return."- ps 78: 39

" as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed
our transgressions from us.
As a father has compassion on his children, so the LORD has
compassion on those who fear him; for he knows how we
are formed, he remembers that we are dust.
The life of mortals is like grass,
they flourish like a flower of the field;" - ps 103: 13-15

We are dust, we are mortals, we are flesh .

"For all flesh is as grass, and
all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord
endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. - 1 pet 1: 24,25.

"For the LORD will execute
judgment by fire And by His
sword on all flesh, And those
slain by the LORD will be
many."

"For by fire and by his sword
will the LORD plead with all
flesh: and the slain of the
LORD shall be many." - isa 66 :16

"And all flesh shall see the
salvation of God." Luke 3:6

Note: it is not derived , god said man is flesh.

To be continued in my next post

You are doing well bro
So far, so good, the rudimentary knowledge and fundamental basic facts are spot on.
I like the way you're crawling before you change and switch gear to speed up and gather momemtum for the additional stuff
(i.e. like when you will move on from flesh or body, unto soul and spirit/breath, when you'll touch on how the created Adam became a living soul,
like when you'll touch on the dual meaning of Sheol, as at times, its a grave and at the other time, its like an ''airport transit lounge'' etcetera)
All, up to this point are satisfactory but I cant vouch to say similar when you continue in your next post
Keenly looking forward to read what next you have to post

MuttleyLaff:
One God, who can be at more than one place at the same time.

Let me bring home to you, more down t
Think of Agent Smith. Hmm, yeah, something like him only that Agent Smith isnt divine.

I think everyone is now accustomed to your legendary display of ignorance

After helping you modifying your remark, yes, in a roundabout way, you actually are right ''God dies while the same God is alive''
but hey, am going to feed your ignorance a bit, please dont to choke on it, else you'll throw up
God in the person of God the Son, Jesus Christ who came as man with the divine nature,
obviously as a human being, died a biological death, the spirit/breath left Him, after He exhaled and drew His last breath
so the fact is, it wasnt the death of God the Father, who is Spirit and a totally divine being who died

rubish.
Two Gods that are not one , if truly they are one why didnt God the father died when the other God the son died ?

Jozzy4:
rubish.

Two Gods that are not one

They are one alright
only that you obviously dont know who Agent Smith is
I recommend you go watch the movie in order to get a handle on this
- Agent Smith is not even remotely divine, yet pulls it off

Jozzy4:
if truly they are one why didnt God the father died when the other God the son died?

I'll repeat it, as it seems to conveniently chose to ignore the earlier response
God the Father, is a totally divine being which cannot die
God the Son was part human part divine, it was the human part that biologically died

Jozzy4:
" and the Man became a LIVING Soul" . Gen 2:7

Sorry, He became a soul likewise other animals whom God also gave the breath of life ,

He wasnt given a soul . He BECAME

When i told that man is triune. This is what i meant: And the lord God formed man of the dust of the ground (Body), and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (spirit); and man became a living (soul). The soul and the spirit is the non material part of you that never dies, that is why the scripture uses the term spirit and soul interchangeably. The soul is who you are, it is a part of your
SPIRITUAL component. This is your individuality, your "I
AM" so to speak (made in God's image), your "heart."
Although your individual soul did not exist before your mother and father
procreated you, it will exist forever . It cannot be killed by
man: "And fear not them which kill
the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear
him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
(Matt. 10:28 KJV)
When your body dies your soul (YOU) will leave the flesh:
"And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin." (Genesis 35:18 KJV)

Tjayjosh:
When i told that man is triune. This is what i meant:
And the lord God formed man of the dust of the ground (Body),
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (spirit);
and man became a living (soul).

The soul and the spirit is the non material part of you that never dies, that is why the scripture uses the term spirit and soul interchangeably.
The soul is who you are, it is a part of your SPIRITUAL component.
This is your individuality, your "I AM" so to speak (made in God's image), your "heart."

Although your individual soul did not exist before your mother and father procreated you, it will exist forever.

It cannot be killed by man:
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."(Matt. 10:28 KJV)

When your body dies your soul (YOU) will leave the flesh:
"And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him called him Benjamin."
(Genesis 35:18 KJV)

There you go Jozzy4, its a wrap
if you can just humbly think about Tjayjosh's all the above and what so far was posted today, you'll be sorted with getting the understanding

@ jeromejnr
@ jozzy4
@ mizjanet
@ muttleylaff


My understanding of who man is , the spirit in man and what happens at death. (part 2)

Now that I've shown my view on man being flesh , ill go into my view of what the spirit in man really is.

In surpport and continuation of what is recorded in genesis 2:7 we read this in job

"The Spirit of God hath made
me, and the breath of the
Almighty hath given me life" - job 33: 4

Now is that breathe of life/ spirit the man, Part of man or just a force that enables man to be alive and live . Let's look at the scriptures for answer.

If he should set his heart
to it and gather to himself his spirit and his breath, all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust. - job 34:14,15

From this verse I learn that
(a) God can gather the spirit he have man back to himself if he wants to , hence ending the life of such man (a view that goes along with death)
(b) flesh/ man will perish if God does this .
(c) for a fact that it says man will perish means the spirit is not man but a force that makes him to stay alive, not perish , not return to dust.
(d) I noticed that the word "spirit" is used here , not "spirits " when it was talking about men (more than one person) do humans have the same spirit ? I.e the spirit or force in me is the same spirit or force in you?


"When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their breath, they die and return to the dust.
When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the ground.


I learnt here that
(a) man/ animals / living things that has the breathe in it die and return to the dust.
(b) it did not say "part of man returns to the dust" or "flesh of man returns to the dust" it said "they" in reference to all living thing with breath return to the dust.
(c ) this verses goes along with the issue of man in genesis and ecclestiastis .
(d) this verses goes along with the view that man is "flesh" and not "spirit" or "spirit in flesh"
(e) I noticed again that the word "spirit" is used and not "spirits " . Do we all have one spirit operating in all of us?.


"Thus saith God the LORD, he
that created the heavens, and
stretched them out; he that
spread forth the earth, and that
which cometh out of it; he that
giveth breath unto the people
upon it, and spirit to them that
walk therein:" -isa 42:5

I learnt here that
(a) the breathe of life is more than just breathe.I it includes a force that enables us to live.
(b) The breath sustains man
existence, the spirit energizes and is the life-force that enables man to be an animated creature, to move, walk, be actively alive. This is further butressed when we read acts 17: 25,28 .
(c) I noticed again here that the word "spirit" is used instead of "spirits". Does this mean that it is the same spirit that God gave all mankind .


Taken from a source:
(((While nesha·mahʹ (breath) and ruʹach (spirit; active force; life- force) are sometimes used in a parallel sense, they are not
identical. True, the “spirit,” or
ruʹach, is at times spoken of as
though it were the respiration
(nesha·mahʹ) itself, but this
seems to be simply because
breathing is the prime visible
evidence of the life-force in one’s body.— Job 9:18; 19:17; 27:3. Thus at Ezekiel 37:1-10 the symbolic vision of the valley of dry bones is presented, the bones coming together, becoming covered with sinews, flesh, and skin, but “as regards breath [weruʹach], there was none in them.” Ezekiel was told to prophesy to “the wind[ha·ruʹach],” saying, “From the
four winds [form of ruʹach] come in, O wind, and blow upon these killed people, that they may come to life.” The reference to the four winds shows that wind is the appropriate rendering for
ruʹach in this case. However,
when such “wind,” which is
simply air in motion, entered the nostrils of the dead persons of the vision, it became “breath,” which is also air in motion. Thus, the rendering of ruʹach as “breath” at this point of the account ( vs 10) is also more appropriate than “spirit” or “life- force.” Ezekiel also would be able to see the bodies begin to breathe, even though he could
not see the life-force, or spirit,
energizing their bodies. As
verses 11-14 show, this vision
was symbolic of a spiritual (not
physical) revivification of the
people of Israel who were for a
time in a spiritually dead state
due to their Babylonian exile.
Since they were already
physically alive and breathing, it is logical to render ruʹach as
“spirit” in verse 14, where God
states that he will put ‘his spirit’ in his people so that they would become alive, spiritually
speaking.)))






" And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." - Gen 6:17


"And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.- Gen 7 :15:22


The verses above shows us that the breathe of life/ spirit is present in both man and animals.
The verses below surpport, butress and cormfirm the on above .

"I said to myself, “This happens concerning people, so that God may test them and they may see for themselves that they are like animals.” For the fate of people and the fate of animals is the same. As one dies, so dies the other; they all have the same breath. People have. no advantage over animals since everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place; all come from dust, and all return to dust.

"I said in my heart concerning the matter of the sons of man that God might cleanse them, so as to see that they themselves [are] beasts.
For an event [is to] the sons of man, and an event [is to] the beasts, even one event [is] to them; as the death of this, so [is] the death of that; and one spirit [is] to all, and the advantage of man above the beast is nothing, for the whole [is] vanity. 20 The whole are going unto one place, the whole have been from the dust, and the whole are turning back unto the dust.- eccl 3:18-20


From this verses I learned that
(a) the spirit, breathe God gave man is same as that of animals (b) there is only one spirit in all men, ur spirit/life force is no different from mine. Hence the use of the word "spirit" and not "spirits " when using it in reference to all mankind.
(c) the bible has been consistent with the fact that man is dust, man is flesh ,cus flesh is dust.
(d) it is clear that now that the
“spirit,” or life-force or breathe of life is impersonal(it is not the man)

With all the verses above I'm able to learn that the spirit in man , same spirit in all men is not man, but a force that enables that man to live, to become animate , to function, to move, to become a soul . Man must sustain that spirit in the body or that spirit in the body will not sustain man .

This view is further supported by the scriptures below.

"Do not trust in princes, In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.
His spirit departs, he returns to the earth ; In that very day his thoughts perish".

"Put not your trust in princes,
nor in the son of man, in whom
there is no help.
His breath goes forth, he
returns to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." -ps 146:4

I've learnt from this verse that
(a) these writer supports all the other writers quoted so far .
(b) that all of them mentioned who or what man is in relation to his spirit
(c)that none of them ever related man to be "spirit " or "spirit in a flesh "
(d) that all the writers surpport the fact that man as a being returns to dust when he dies.
(e) that the spirit (not man), goes out (some went further to say "goes to God who gave it! (the "it" there signifies its inpersonal.)

Will continue in my next post .

dolphinheart:
@ jeromejnr
@ jozzy4
@ mizjanet
@ muttleylaff

My understanding of who man is , the spirit in man and what happens at death. (part 2)

Now that I've shown my view on man being flesh , ill go into my view of what the spirit in man really is.

In surpport and continuation of what is recorded in genesis 2:7 we read this in job

"The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life" - job 33: 4

Now is that breathe of life/ spirit the man, Part of man or just a force that enables man to be alive and live . Let's look at the scriptures for answer.

If he should set his heart to it and gather to himself his spirit and his breath, all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust. - job 34:14,15

From this verse I learn that
(a) God can gather the spirit he have man back to himself if he wants to , hence ending the life of such man (a view that goes along with death)
(b) flesh/ man will perish if God does this .
(c) for a fact that it says man will perish means the spirit is not man but a force that makes him to stay alive, not perish , not return to dust.
(d) I noticed that the word "spirit" is used here , not "spirits " when it was talking about men (more than one person) do humans have the same spirit ? i.e the spirit or force in me is the same spirit or force in you?


"When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their breath, they die and return to the dust.
When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the ground.


I learnt here that
(a) man/ animals / living things that has the breathe in it die and return to the dust.
(b) it did not say "part of man returns to the dust" or "flesh of man returns to the dust" it said "they" in reference to all living thing with breath return to the dust.
(c ) this verses goes along with the issue of man in genesis and ecclestiastis .
(d) this verses goes along with the view that man is "flesh" and not "spirit" or "spirit in flesh"
(e) I noticed again that the word "spirit" is used and not "spirits ". Do we all have one spirit operating in all of us?.


"Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:" -isa 42:5

I learnt here that
(a) the breathe of life is more than just breathe.I it includes a force that enables us to live.
(b) The breath sustains man
existence, the spirit energizes and is the life-force that enables man to be an animated creature, to move, walk, be actively alive. This is further butressed when we read acts 17: 25,28 .
(c) I noticed again here that the word "spirit" is used instead of "spirits". Does this mean that it is the same spirit that God gave all mankind .

Taken from a source:
(((While nesha·mahʹ (breath) and ruʹach (spirit; active force; life- force) are sometimes used in a parallel sense, they are not identical. True, the “spirit,” or ruʹach, is at times spoken of as though it were the respiration (nesha·mahʹ) itself, but this seems to be simply because breathing is the prime visible evidence of the life-force in one’s body.— Job 9:18; 19:17; 27:3. Thus at Ezekiel 37:1-10 the symbolic vision of the valley of dry bones is presented, the bones coming together, becoming covered with sinews, flesh, and skin, but “as regards breath [weruʹach], there was none in them.” Ezekiel was told to prophesy to “the wind[ha·ruʹach],” saying, “From the four winds [form of ruʹach] come in, O wind, and blow upon these killed people, that they may come to life.” The reference to the four winds shows that wind is the appropriate rendering for ruʹach in this case. However,
when such “wind,” which is simply air in motion, entered the nostrils of the dead persons of the vision, it became “breath,” which is also air in motion. Thus, the rendering of ruʹach as “breath” at this point of the account ( vs 10) is also more appropriate than “spirit” or “life- force.” Ezekiel also would be able to see the bodies begin to breathe, even though he could not see the life-force, or spirit,
energizing their bodies. As verses 11-14 show, this vision was symbolic of a spiritual (not physical) revivification of the people of Israel who were for a
time in a spiritually dead state due to their Babylonian exile.

Since they were already physically alive and breathing, it is logical to render ruʹach as “spirit” in verse 14, where God states that he will put ‘his spirit’ in his people so that they would become alive, spiritually speaking.)))

" And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." - Gen 6:17

"And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.- Gen 7 :15:22

The verses above shows us that the breathe of life/ spirit is present in both man and animals.
The verses below surpport, butress and cormfirm the on above .

"I said to myself, “This happens concerning people, so that God may test them and they may see for themselves that they are like animals.” For the fate of people and the fate of animals is the same. As one dies, so dies the other; they all have the same breath. People have. no advantage over animals since everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place; all come from dust, and all return to dust.

"I said in my heart concerning the matter of the sons of man that God might cleanse them, so as to see that they themselves [are] beasts.
For an event [is to] the sons of man, and an event [is to] the beasts, even one event [is] to them; as the death of this, so [is] the death of that; and one spirit [is] to all, and the advantage of man above the beast is nothing, for the whole [is] vanity. 20 The whole are going unto one place, the whole have been from the dust, and the whole are turning back unto the dust.- eccl 3:18-20

From this verses I learned that
(a) the spirit, breathe God gave man is same as that of animals (b) there is only one spirit in all men, ur spirit/life force is no different from mine. Hence the use of the word "spirit" and not "spirits " when using it in reference to all mankind.
(c) the bible has been consistent with the fact that man is dust, man is flesh ,cus flesh is dust.
(d) it is clear that now that the “spirit,” or life-force or breathe of life is impersonal(it is not the man)

With all the verses above I'm able to learn that the spirit in man , same spirit in all men is not man, but a force that enables that man to live, to become animate , to function, to move, to become a soul . Man must sustain that spirit in the body or that spirit in the body will not sustain man .

This view is further supported by the scriptures below.

"Do not trust in princes, In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.
His spirit departs, he returns to the earth ; In that very day his thoughts perish".

"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
His breath goes forth, he returns to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." -ps 146:4

I've learnt from this verse that
(a) these writer supports all the other writers quoted so far .
(b) that all of them mentioned who or what man is in relation to his spirit
(c)that none of them ever related man to be "spirit " or "spirit in a flesh "
(d) that all the writers surpport the fact that man as a being returns to dust when he dies.
(e) that the spirit (not man), goes out (some went further to say "goes to God who gave it! (the "it" there signifies its inpersonal.)
Will continue in my next post

As the saying goes: slow and steady, wins the race
I read you touching and picking up ''breath/spirit'' there. Well done...
It is going to be interesting to see what you'll post next
and see how you end up getting the ship in port, safe
as what so far you've posted has already in some shape or form already been talked o suggested

Jozzy4:
? ?

If you think its heaven, give reason ?


If you think its hell , give reason ?


If you think he returned to his former Non - existence state , give reason ?

Regarding your question. An enclosed answer base on my study of the bible. Please study the Bible to determine if you believe the same The Bible doesn't specifically tell us whether Adam and Eve are in heaven or hell, but we can
infer that they would be in Heaven. This is why:

1. God did not abandon them. God continued to talk them and provided for them after their
sin. He made clothes of animal skin, probably from lamb skins, to cover their
unclothedness and replace the fig-leaf loin cloths the had made. This required an animal sacrifice to
cover their sin, which
prefigured the Lamb of God's christ's
sacrifice for the
sins of the world several thousand years later. This illustrated the biblical
principle of substitutionary
atonement, or covering, by the shedding of blood as condition of forgiveness for the
sinner.

2. Adam and Eve must have taught their chidren about the
importance of offering sacrifices
to God, because we find Cain and Abel givin offerings to God in Genesis 4.

3. We don't go to Hell for our sins. Take note of this. God doesn't send people to Hell
because of a sin, otherwise we would all go to Hell and there would be no point in having a
Heaven. People go to Hell because they do not recieve God's gift of salvation. When Adam and Eve sinned
When Adam and Eve, they tried to hide themselves from
God. That they felt shame for disobeying God's command not
to eat from the tree of
knowledge shows that there was hope for their salvation.

4. Adam is used as a positive example
example In Luke's Gospel, Adam is set as
the head of Christ's genealogy (Luke 3:38), and is called the
“son of God”, a term Luke has already given to Jesus (Luke
1:35). It is inconceivable that
Luke would call Adam a son of God if his destiny was to be
tormented endlessly in Hell.

5. The Apostle Paul uses Adam and Eve in his teaching about the
sexes and the truth of the Genesis account.
Christ is called the Last Adam. There is a strong comparison
between Adam and Christ in the Bible. In fact, Christ is even called the "last Adam"
in 1 Corinthians
15:45. And even though this is a
contrast, Adam brought sin and death
whereas Christ brought righteousness and
everlasting life. It seems inconceivable that Paul would
give Christ the name of Adam if Adam's home was Hell.

Tjayjosh:
Regarding your question. An enclosed answer base on my study of the bible. Please study the Bible to determine if you believe the same The Bible doesn't specifically tell us whether Adam and Eve are in heaven or hell, but we can
infer that they would be in Heaven. This is why:

1. God did not abandon them. God continued to talk them and provided for them after their
sin. He made clothes of animal skin, probably from lamb skins, to cover their
unclothedness and replace the fig-leaf loin cloths the had made. This required an animal sacrifice to
cover their sin, which
prefigured the Lamb of God's christ's
sacrifice for the
sins of the world several thousand years later. This illustrated the biblical
principle of substitutionary
atonement, or covering, by the shedding of blood as condition of forgiveness for the
sinner.

2. Adam and Eve must have taught their chidren about the
importance of offering sacrifices
to God, because we find Cain and Abel givin offerings to God in Genesis 4.

3. We don't go to Hell for our sins. Take note of this. God doesn't send people to Hell
because of a sin, otherwise we would all go to Hell and there would be no point in having a
Heaven. People go to Hell because they do not recieve God's gift of salvation. When Adam and Eve sinned
When Adam and Eve, they tried to hide themselves from
God. That they felt shame for disobeying God's command not
to eat from the tree of
knowledge shows that there was hope for their salvation.

4. Adam is used as a positive example
example In Luke's Gospel, Adam is set as
the head of Christ's genealogy (Luke 3:38), and is called the
“son of God”, a term Luke has already given to Jesus (Luke
1:35). It is inconceivable that
Luke would call Adam a son of God if his destiny was to be
tormented endlessly in Hell.

5. The Apostle Paul uses Adam and Eve in his teaching about the
sexes and the truth of the Genesis account.
Christ is called the Last Adam. There is a strong comparison
between Adam and Christ in the Bible. In fact, Christ is even called the "last Adam"
in 1 Corinthians
15:45. And even though this is a
contrast, Adam brought sin and death
whereas Christ brought righteousness and
everlasting life. It seems inconceivable that Paul would
give Christ the name of Adam if Adam's home was Hell.

Stop this error , try and use your own thinkin ability .

Your dishonesty is so great that you cant incude the source of the copy and paste job , http://www.creationtips.com/adam_heaven.html

Dont take another mans credit , its total dishonesty .

Tjayjosh:
When i told that man is triune. This is what i meant: And the lord God formed man of the dust of the ground (Body), and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (spirit); and man became a living (soul). The soul and the spirit is the non material part of you that never dies, that is why the scripture uses the term spirit and soul interchangeably. The soul is who you are, it is a part of your
SPIRITUAL component. This is your individuality, your "I
AM" so to speak (made in God's image), your "heart."
Although your individual soul did not exist before your mother and father
procreated you, it will exist forever . It cannot be killed by

Go and sell your lies somewhere else bro . Hehehehe if breath of life and becoming a living soul = immaterial part , then do you agree all animals have an immaterial entity that go to heaven or hell in them too since THEY ARE LIVING SOULS ( REV 16:3, GEN 1:24) AND THEY HAVE THE BREATH OF LIFE TOO ( GENESIS 7:22 ) ?

They gat it all .

man: "And fear not them which kill
the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear
him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

(Matt. 10:28 KJV)

Check the underlined , it can be destroyed like th body. That clearly proves it mortal .

Check the underlined , the body go to grave not an imaginary hell .

Go and study matt 13:34,35

When your body dies your soul (YOU) will leave the flesh:
"And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin." (Genesis 35:18 KJV)

The soul dies ( Eze 18:4)

Jozzy4:
Go and sell your lies somewhere else bro . Hehehehe if breath of life and becoming a living soul = immaterial part , then do you agree all animals have an immaterial entity that go to heaven or hell in them too since THEY ARE LIVING SOULS ( REV 16:3, GEN 1:24) AND THEY HAVE THE BREATH OF LIFE TOO ( GENESIS 7:22 ) ?

They gat it all


Check the underlined , it can be destroyed like th body. That clearly proves it mortal .

Check the underlined , the body go to grave not an imaginary hell .

Go and study matt 13:34,35




The soul dies ( Eze 18:4)

Yes the bible clearly stated in Ezekiel 18:4: the soul that sinneth, shall die. The writter here may be refering to the Body, because the term body and soul are sometimes used interchangeably. However, All things must be maintained and sustained by where they came from. The minute a plant decides it doesn't like the earth anymore, it dies. The minute the fish decide they are tired of water, they die. The minute animals decide, they don't want to eat grass any more, they begin to die. If Humans separate themselves from God, they will eventually die.

@ jeromejnr
@ jozzy4
@ mizjanet
@ muttleylaff


My understanding of who man is , the spirit in man and what happens at death. (part 3)


I've qouted this verse in my previous post but will start this verse with it .

"Put not your trust in princes,
nor in the son of man, in whom
there is no help.
His breath goes forth, he
returns to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." -ps 146:4

I've learnt from this verse that (a)mans thought perish when he dies, mans thoughts perish when the spirit leaves him.
(b) that man uses his flesh(his brain) to think , and thus when his brain no longer functions as the spirit not longer makes it active, the thoughts. If man siezes.

Do I have any scripture to surpport my initial view on this verse ? I will do so by telling my views of death and what it does to man (flesh).

" See, I have set before thee
this day life and good, and death and evil;
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life,
that both thou and thy seed may live: - deut 30 : 15,19

This verse let's me know that just as evil is the opposite of good ,blessing is the opposite of cursing , death is also the direct opposite of life, the effect causes man to " return " to his state where he was before his creation .

the Scriptures quoted earlier has shown that death in humans and animals follows the loss of the spirit (active force) of life — Ge 6:17, 7:15, 22; Ec 3:19;.

Taken from a source:
(( It is of interest to note the
correspondency of these Biblical points with what is known scientifically of the death process. In humans, for
example, when the heart stops
beating, the blood ceases to
circulate nourishment and
oxygen (obtained by breathing) to the billions of body cells.
However, The World Book
Encyclopedia (1987, Vol. 5,
p. 52b) pointed out: “A person
whose heart and lungs stop
working may be considered
clinically dead, but somatic death may not yet have occurred. The individual cells of the body continue to live for several minutes. The person may be revived if the heart and lungs start working again and give the cells the oxygen they need. After about three minutes, the brain cells—which are most sensitive to a lack of oxygen—begin to die. The person is soon dead beyond any possibility of revival.
Gradually, other cells of the body also die. The last ones to perish are the bone, hair, and skin cells, which may continue to grow for several hours.” Thus while the vital importance of breathing and of the blood in maintaining the active life-force (ruʹach chai·yimʹ) in the body cells is evident, at the
same time it is also clear that it is not the cessation of breathing or of heartbeat alone but the disappearance of the life-force or spirit from the body cells that brings death as referred to in the Scriptures.— Ps 104:29; *quoted earlier.

Ps146:4; * quoted earlier

Ec 8:8.: There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.))

Since we now know what death is we will briefly look at what caused death in man(flesh ). What caused the spirit to stop being active on the body.

Ge 3:19;* quoted earlier

Jas 1:14, 15: But every man is
tempted, when he is drawn
away of his own lust, and
enticed. 15 Then when lust
hath conceived, it bringeth
forth sin: and sin, when it is
finished, bringeth forth death.

Ro 5:12; Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death
passed upon all men, for that
all have sinned

Ro 6:23.; King James Bible
For the wages of sin is death;
but the gift of God is eternal lifethrough Jesus Christ our Lord.

Note That romans 6:23 says the wages of sin is death , you pay no more wages after you have died.

One might ask, how does Adams sin affect us. The truth is that adam lost his perfect body that is able to retain spirit as long as it is sustained. It is only that imperfect body the is slave to sin that he can pass to his offpring, thus we can say his offspring's inherited sin as stated in romans .
Alienated from God by sin,
mankind in general is said to be in “enslavement to corruption.” ( Ro 8:21) This
enslavement is due to the
workings of sin in their bodies,
bringing forth its corrupting fruit, and all persons not obedient to God are under the rule of sin as its slaves “with death in view.” (Ro 6:12, 16, 19-21)

So what Condition of Humans when they are dead.

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."


"For the living know that
they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
- Ec 9:5, 10

This verses let us know that
(a)the dead know nothing.
(b)there is no planning or knowledge or wisdom for the dead.
(c) this I feel as true cus except our flesh is being acted upon by an external spirit force e.g the holy spirit , its our physical flesh(brain) that does all the thinking, all the seeing and reading (eyes) the feeling (skin) the tasting etc. As these occurs over time , it determines our knowledge, thoughts, wills and emotions(which is already partially determined by the flesh *hormones and enzymes).

Does the writer have any surpport from other writers of the scriptures?

"His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish"
-Ps 146:4)

My strength is dried up like a
potsherd; and my tongue
cleaveth to my jaws; and thou
hast brought me into the dust
of death. - Ps 22:15)

They are dead, they shall not
live; they are deceased, they
shall not rise: therefore hast
thou visited and destroyed
them, and made all their
memory to perish "
-Isa 26:14.

"For in death there is no
remembrance of thee: in the
grave who shall give thee
thanks"

"For there is no remembrance
of You in death; who can thank
You in Sheol?"-Ps 6:5

"For the dead cannot praise
you; they cannot raise their
voices in praise.
Those who go down to the
grave can no longer hope in your faithfulness.
Only the living can praise you
as I do today.
Each generation tells of your
faithfulness to the next.
-Isa 38:18, 19)


To conclude, the question is, is there hope for the dead to live again ?

both the Hebrew and the Greek
Scriptures, death is likened to
sleep, a fitting comparison not
only because of the unconscious condition of the dead but also because of the hope of an awakening through the resurrection. ( Ps 13:3; Joh
11:11-14) The resurrected Jesus is spoken of as “the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in
death.”— 1Co 15:20, 21;

^^^@dolphinheart
so what in three sentences is the summary for those verbose LONG & WINDY three posts going to be?