Jeromejnr:


It's official name is Sheol Mr Man. And also originally know as paradise.

But later called Abraham's Bosom because he is the Father of faith. And Abraham was declared by God "the possessor of heaven and earth". It was an inheritance. Heb 7:6, Gen 14:19, Rom 4:13- "Clearly, God's promise to give the whole earth to Abraham and his descendants was based not on his obedience to God's law, but on a right relationship with God that comes by faith."

And all who followed in the footsteps of faith as believing Abraham before Jesus went there.

Lol , Official name. Sheol was later named Abraham bossom . e.t.c

Where did you get all this unscriptural details?

CaptainJune:


I liked your post. You are very knowledgeable, my friend. My aim of visiting this thread was to feed my eyes and keep my comment to myself until I saw your comment. Very nice.

There is more to say about this subject but I'm in no mood for argument. Besides, Op has already made up his mind about the possible place Adam is spending his eternity. Seeing that, why waste my comment?

Anyway, it's nice to know you know what many don't know, and don't want to know.

In other words , you reject Genesis 3:19?

Jozzy4:

Lol , Official name
Where did you get all this unscriptural details?

Why don't you just work on having a more intimate relationship with the Lord and leave things that will not really help you alone.

If you want answers to your question go and do a deep research on the Greek and Hebrew original texts.

Jeromejnr:


Why don't you just work on having a more intimate relationship with the Lord and leave things that will not really help you alone.

If you want answers to your question go and do a deep research on the Greek and Hebrew original texts.

God said Adam will return to dust , is he lying or what ?

Jozzy4:


God said Adam will return to dust , is he lying or what ?

Humans were not created to die at first. But sin came and brought all kinds of death. Even physical death. So yes his physical flesh did return to dust. (Rabbis tell us from historical account that the devil had to train Adam and Eve on how to die, Adam after being sent from the garden was depressed and tried to kill himself many time but God would not allow)

But his flesh is diff from his soul and spirit.

Have you asked yourself why ppl in the old lived much longer than ppl of now.

Even scientists have said that they discovered that the human body is fashioned in a way that it is not supposed to die. That is why at the end we will still receive a new body but a more glorious one. Because us living in the flesh was God's original purpose for man. We need the flesh to live on the earth. And at the end the will be a new earth. We can't live on earth on the spirit.

That's why God said "Behold I make everything new" Because His original plan was thwarted.

It's a very complicated teaching my guy. I no too get time write all this tins down.

Jeromejnr:


Humans were not created to die at first. But sin came and brought all kinds of death. Even physical death. So yes his physical flesh did return to dust. (Rabbis tell us from historical account that the devil had to train Adam and Eve on how to die, Adam after being sent from the garden was depressed and tried to kill himself many time but God would not allow)

But his flesh is diff from his soul and spirit.

Have you asked yourself why ppl in the old lived much longer than ppl of now.

Even scientists have said that they discovered that the human body is fashioned in a way that it is not supposed to die. That is why at the end we will still receive a new body but a more glorious one. Because us living in the flesh was God's original purpose for man. We need the flesh to li

Forget the Rabbis bro ; God said : " .. YOU return to the ground , for dust YOU are and to dust YOU shall return" , who is the " YOU " ? Adam himself or an ordinary flesh .

Jozzy4:


Forget the Rabbis bro ; God said : " .. YOU return to the ground , for dust YOU are and to dust YOU shall return" , who is the " YOU " ? Adam himself or an ordinary flesh .

Why dont you read all that passage in its context. It says:

"For dust you are and dust you shall return" Adam was not all dust. But Spirit Soul and Body(dust). So dust returns to dust but where does the spirit go?.

His spirit is not made up of dust or is it?.

Jeromejnr:


Why dont you read all that passage in its context. It says:

"For dust you are and dust you shall return" Adam was not all dust. But Spirit Soul and Body(dust). So dust returns to dust but where does the spirit go?.

His spirit is not made up of dust or is it?.

Bro , God said Adam is dust , " for dust you are" , you are saying another thing ; who should I belive ?

" and the LORD God proceed to FORM THE MAN OUT OF DUST" . Gen 2:7

The man himself is what ? Dust .

The only thing that was given to him was breath of life in his NOSTRILS . probably this breath is what you called spirit .

Jozzy4:


Bro , God said Adam is dust , " for dust you are" , you are saying another thing ; who should I belive ?

" and the LORD God proceed to FORM THE MAN OUT OF DUST" . Gen 2:7

The man himself is what ? Dust .

The only thing that was given to him was breath of life in his NOSTRILS . probably this breath is what you called spirit .

And what about the soul?

Jozzy4:


Bro , God said Adam is dust , " for dust you are" , you are saying another thing ; who should I belive ?

" and the LORD God proceed to FORM THE MAN OUT OF DUST" . Gen 2:7

The man himself is what ? Dust .

The only thing that was given to him was breath of life in his NOSTRILS . probably this what you call spirit .

Yup.
The scripture says “and man became a living soul after God breath into him the breath of life”. The Hebrew bible or the original rendering of that passage in the Hebrew language says, “And man became a speaking spirit like God”.

You can research it out yourself.

Also,
The name Man is derived from a word meaning "to be red," and thus the first man was called Adam because he was formed from the red earth.

What makes man man is because of flesh. The spirit is not man but sprit. The Lord in eternity was not man but only God but when He came and put on flesh, He was known as the Son Of Man. Why?

Because he put on flesh (dust). So dust goes to dust and spirit to spirit.

Tjayjosh:

And what about the soul?

" and the Man became a LIVING Soul" . Gen 2:7

Sorry, He became a soul likewise other animals whom God also gave the breath of life ,

He wasnt given a soul . He BECAME

Jeromejnr:


Yup.
The scripture says “and man became a living soul after God breath into him the breath of life”. The Hebrew bible or the original rendering of that passage in the Hebrew language says, “And man became a speaking spirit like God”.

You can research it out yourself.

Also,
The name Man is derived from a word meaning "to be red," and thus the first man was called Adam because he was formed from the red earth.

What makes man man is because of flesh. The spirit is not man but sprit. The Lord in eternity was not man but only God but when He came and put on flesh, He was known as the Son Of Man. Why?

Because he put on flesh (dust). So dust goes to dust and spirit to spirit.

Another error :

If ADAM is a spirit that means he return to God when he dies , " and the spirit returns to God" Ecc 12:7 ?

That means everyone , either good or bad returns to God in heaven . Then Everyone is saved .

Jozzy4:

Another error :

If ADAM is a spirit that means he return to God when he dies , " and the spirit returns to God" Ecc 12:7 ?

That means everyone , either good or bad returns to God in heaven . Then Everyone is saved .

There is no error anywhere.

The book of Ecclesiastics is also know as a book of Perspective. What does that mean? life as viewed from the one speaking.

You need to understand that not everyone that said something in the bible spoke from God. But in their own limited understanding.

That is why Paul advised us to learn to rightly divide the word of truth.

Example. Not everything in the book of Job is considered to be Truth. When job blamed God for his problems he faced. He wasn't right with that accusation because all the while it was the devil.

Now because that statement was recorded doesn't mean it was Truth.

And BTW, u Can't take everything literally. When David said one time God was angry and smoke came out of His nostrils, did that really happen or was it just an expression?

What you said up there is an expression as given by the writer of Eccl.

Jeromejnr:


There is no error anywhere.

The book of Ecclesiastics is also know as a book of Perspective. What does that mean? life as viewed from the one speaking.

You need to understand that not everyone that said something in the bible spoke from God. But in their own limited understanding.

That is why Paul advised us to learn to rightly divide the word of truth.

Example. Not everything in the book of Job is considered to be Truth. When job blamed God for his problems he faced. He wasn't right with that accusation because all the while it was the devil.

Now because that statement was recorded doesn't mean it was Truth.

And BTW, u Can't take everything literally. When David said one time God was angry and smoke came out of His nostrils, did that really happen or was it just an expression?

What you said up there is an expression as given by the writer of Eccl.

So the writer of ecclestiatis was lying ? As in he is not saying the truth?

dolphinheart:


So the writer of ecclestiatis was lying ? As in he is not saying the truth?

He was Expressing his emotions and thoughts just like when he said:

"Money answereth all things...."

Well, was he lying or saying the Truth?.

Jeromejnr:


He was Expressing his emotions and thoughts just like when he said:

"Money answereth all things...."

Well, was he lying or saying the Truth?.

Pls can you answer my questions, then ask urs !. When he was expressing his emotions was he telling us truth or was he telling us lies.

dolphinheart:


Pls can you answer my questions, then ask urs !. When he was expressing his emotions was he telling us truth or was he telling us lies.

Neither.

It was an expression.

When God said, " I will whet my sword and exact vengeance...." Deut 32:41. Well did he actually use a sword there?

Was it a lie or truth? Or an expression?.

Jeromejnr:


Neither.

It was an expression.

When God said, " I will whet my sword and exact vengeance...." Deut 32:41. Well did he actually use a sowrd there?

Was it a lie or truth? Or an expression?.

An expression of what! . Is it an expression of what he knows or what he feels. He made a statement , is that statement true or false. There is nothing like neither in determining if a statement is true or false

Religion is a medium of escapism and adoption of stoical

dolphinheart:

An expression of what! . Is it an expression of what he knows or what he feels. He made a statement , is that statement true or false. There is nothing like neither in determining if a statement is true or false

All spirits belong to God. Why? He is known as the Father of spirits.

All spirits will one day stand before God. But not all will spend eternity with Him.

So in an expression, there is fact but not to be taking literally like the examples I gave you.

So it is not an issue of whether it is true or not. But on the point being passed across.

But if you believe all spirits go back to God in heaven then you contradict the scriptures.

dolphinheart:

An expression of what! . Is it an expression of what he knows or what he feels. He made a statement , is that statement true or false. There is nothing like neither in determining if a statement is true or false

BTW.
Ecclesiastes 9:4, 6, 10 is written from the standpoint of knowledge "under the sun", from the viewpoint of natural man who lives without thoughts for God. This restates the philosophy of unbelievers that "when you're dead, you're dead."

That was why I said it is also know as a book of perspective. Perspective of a natural man.

Jeromejnr:


All spirits belong to God. Why? He is known as the Father of spirits.

All spirits will one day stand before God. But not all will spend eternity with Him.

So in an expression, there is fact but not to be taking literally like the examples I gave you.

So it is not an issue of whether it is true or not. But on the point being passed across.

But if you believe all spirits go back to God in heaven then you contradict the scriptures.

So you are saying that that statement is true if its not taking literarily abi?
If so, then where did the bible tell us the spirit literarily goes? (key word, spirit)
Can you add scriptural proof to this statements of urs:
(a)"all spirits will one day stand before God"( key word, spirits).

Personal view(you can prove me wrong)
I do think the words used by the writer is "stand before God" he specifically stated " return to God " . The word "return" is used twice there, are we to take one literarily and the other not literarily?

I also think this statement goes along with the story of the literal creation of adam . Adam is said to come from dust, and the breathe if life came into him became a living creature, adam became a soul. Now when man dies, this two things seperate, the process is reversed, but according to how the process came to be in the first place and like genesis and eclle says , the dust, the flesh, man, adam returns to dust and that spirit ( the bible sometimes used "it" for the spirit in man) returns back to God who gave it!

So if Adams case is literal, why can't this reversal be literal.?

Pls note, we are not arguing , we are only having a discussion, learning from each other

Jeromejnr:


BTW.
Ecclesiastes 9:4, 6, 10 is written from the standpoint of knowledge "under the sun", from the viewpoint of natural man who lives without thoughts for God. This restates the philosophy of unbelievers that "when you're dead, you're dead."

That was why I said it is also know as a book of perspective. Perspective of a natural man.

So we must remove those verses as part of the inspired word of God?.

Jeromejnr:


There is no error anywhere.

The book of Ecclesiastics is also know as a book of Perspective. What does that mean? life as viewed from the one speaking.

You need to understand that not everyone that said something in the bible spoke from God. But in their own limited understanding.

That is why Paul advised us to learn to rightly divide the word of truth.

Example. Not everything in the book of Job is considered to be Truth. When job blamed God for his problems he faced. He wasn't right with that accusation because all the while it was the devil.

Now because that statement was recorded doesn't mean it was Truth.

And BTW, u Can't take everything literally. When David said one time God was angry and smoke came out of His nostrils, did that really happen or was it just an expression?

What you said up there is an expression as given by the writer of Eccl.

So the writer of ecclesiastes is not inspired of God ?

dolphinheart:


So we must remove those verses as part of the inspired word of God?.

Did you even understand what we've been talking about since

Now get what I am saying from this point: Paul himself used Poems from Greek poets to help in teaching the word.

Jozzy4:


So the writer of ecclesiastes is not inspired of God ?

Read what I told the guy above.

dolphinheart:


So you are saying that that statement is true if its not taking literarily abi?
If so, then where did the bible tell us the spirit literarily goes? (key word, spirit)
Can you add scriptural proof to this statements of urs:
(a)"all spirits will one day stand before God"( key word, spirits).

Personal view(you can prove me wrong)
I do think the words used by the writer is "stand before God" he specifically stated " return to God " . The word "return" is used twice there, are we to take one literarily and the other not literarily?

I also think this statement goes along with the story of the literal creation of adam . Adam is said to come from dust, and the breathe if life came into him became a living creature, adam became a soul. Now when man dies, this two things seperate, the process is reversed, but according to how the process came to be in the first place and like genesis and eclle says , the dust, the flesh, man, adam returns to dust and that spirit ( the bible sometimes used "it" for the spirit in man) returns back to God who gave it!

So if Adams case is literal, why can't this reversal be literal.?

Pls note, we are not arguing , we are only having a discussion, learning from each other

Its's not hard to understand. All sprits will one day stand before God. E.g The Judgement of the saints and also the White Throne Judgement.

"Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.… Rev 20:11"

And as for the return to God Issue, I have said the book of Ecclesiastics was writing from the standpoint of Man without God and purpose. He pondered on life from the Logical perspective and not the spiritual.

Look at this:

In discussing this matter I have found the quotation from President Brigham Young contained in his Discourses, which says: "[The scripture] reads that the spirit goes to God who gave it. Let me render this scripture a little plainer; when the spirits leave their bodies they are in the presence of our Father and God, they are prepared then to see, hear and understand spiritual things. But where is the spirit world?" He answers by saying this:

"If we go back to our mother country, the States, we there find the righteous, and we there find the wicked; if we go to California, we there find the righteous and the wicked, all dwelling together; and when we go beyond this veil, and leave our bodies which were taken from mother earth, and which must return, our spirits will pass beyond the veil; we go where both Saints and sinners go; they all go to one place.

"If the wicked wish to escape from his presence, they must go where he is not, where he does not live, where his influence does not preside. To find such a place is impossible, except they go beyond the bounds of time and space." (Discourses of Brigham Young, sel. John A. Widtsoe [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1941], pp. 376-77.)

As I understand what President Young is saying, when we go home to God, it is just like going back to our home country. We may not go into the presence of the governor of the state where we live, but we will go to the home country, and there we shall find our level among the people with whom we are most accustomed to associate. (The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, pp. 57-58)

Jeromejnr:


Read what I told the guy above.

All i see is a confuse guy running in circles .

Ecclesistes is a book of " Truth" Ecc 12:10 , do you agree that all spirit return to God in heaven as stated in the scriptures?

[quote author=Jozzy4 post=37232799]

All i see is a confuse guy running in circles .

Ecclesistes is a book of " Truth" Ecc 12:10 , do you agree that all spirit return to God in heaven as stated in the scriptures?[/quote

I have giving a reply above to the other guy.

But you didn't answer my question, Does money answer all things?

If you can answer that, then we can move from there.

Jozzy4:
? ?

If you think its heaven, give reason ?


If you think its hell , give reason ?


If you think he returned to his former Non - existence state , give reason ?

only God knows

prettysassygirl:

only God knows

Very simple answer.

That's all!

Jeromejnr:

Very simple answer.
That's all!

yes o