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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? (4025 Views)
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Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by menesheh(m): 10:43am On Sep 04, 2015 |
First of all, as an atheist, ask me 'menesheh what will change your view on believes?' EVIDENCE AND PROOF. Bible Literalists love to pose the notion that atheists are closed minded and that they themselves are actually very open-minded. Of course, like many of their other bizarre statements, the exact opposite is true. Many of them, have made it clear that there is no amount of evidence that could ever change their views. When asked what they would do if its proven that god doesn't exist, most do state that they would pray to god for guidance. There are mountains of physical evidence against the literal biblical perspective of human origins. Those said evidence basically constitutes the whole of scientific knowledge. The fact is, that in order to hold to a biblical perspective on human origins, one has to either ignore or manipulate every bit of scientific evidence in order to hold to that perspective. The thing we all have to remember however, is that for fundamentalist Christians, this perspective towards science is necessary to validate their religious beliefs. For them, the Christian perspective only works in a literalist context. This is why: If the biblical creation myth isn't true, then there is no original sin. Without original sin, there is no need for Jesus. So each piece is dependent on the last for validity, and if you destroy the foundation the whole structure falls. The reality is that theologically speaking, they're absolutely correct. Any belief outside of the literalist perspective is tantamount to belief in elves or unicorns. It is belief without any valid foundation... otherwise known as faith. It's odd how a real understanding of these ideas can clear up some misperceptions. It seems to me that biblical literalists actually worship the bible rather than the god they profess, that idea is what is at play here also. it seems that by following the literalist perspective they are more theologically sound, however the progressive Christian actually meets the requirement of god to believe by faith rather than proof. The same paradox that arises here is the one which makes the no true Scotsman argument a fallacy. Theologically speaking, there's no true and valid way to say which position makes one a true Christian. So we must accept the notion that both are true Christians, and that the nature of Christian doctrine is such, that it allows for multiple and ambiguous views, thus for different schools of theological understanding. From that, we can gather that a claim of absolute truth by any Christian sect or denomination is fallacious and is based entirely on personal interpretation. To Christians cum theists What's the nature of evidence that can alter your religious views? 4 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by respect80(m): 11:00am On Sep 04, 2015 |
If you ask me na who I go ask |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by johnydon22(m): 11:05am On Sep 04, 2015 |
Yeap to me a tangible amount of plausible empirical evidence can change my views about everything or anything. I am of the opinion the we strive to know by learning and scrutinizing empirically so as to ascertain how a phenonemenon actually is instead of learning to believe every postulation asserted without evidence no matter how absurd it is... That to me is intellectual dishonesty 6 Likes 3 Shares |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by orisa37: 12:35pm On Sep 04, 2015 |
To all athiests, I say God knows you, for you are His sons and daughters like I am. But He can never give you wisdom to know Him. All that He has allowed you, is cunningness to rant in the dark sheol. He makes the earth for works and for our aims, but the Heaven, His Residence, He makes for our home and rest. Before and after the Big-Bang, God is it. For God is our Instructor, Director, Dis-"cern"-ment, wisdom, knowledge and understanding. So God is the latest CERN development. Athiests can never know God 'cos He has kept them permanently in darkness with the foolishness of the devil. All the evidences I need to know God are in the Bible and in His Spirit in me. All future developments will be just an extension of His wisdom, knowledge and understanding of our actions, interactions and movements on earth. |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by finofaya: 12:55pm On Sep 04, 2015 |
orisa37: God does not want atheists to know him. Lol. Very convenient. So what did you intend to achieve with your announcement? 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by menesheh(m): 2:26pm On Sep 04, 2015 |
orisa37: Your whole points is implying that god is partial. He doesn't want to disclose himself to atheists but only you and others. You've said it all, god is the director, instructor, and knowledge giver, so he knew what will convince me and other atheist whenever he dimmed right. 2 Likes |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by orisa37: 5:26pm On Sep 04, 2015 |
Take the Parable of the two sons of a man. The man asked the first, go to the farm and work there. The son answered yes but disobeyed. The man asked the second son to go, the son answered no but obeyed. Which of the two sons did the will of the father? So it is for athiests and the thiests. The father, God, cannot believe you, athiest, when you can never trust Him. You are so full of disbelief, disobedience and the fact of seeing is believing. Whereas I have faith, hope, peace, love and believing before seeing Him reveal Himself to me. God is not abracadabra but a Spirit. He loves you and because you don't know, you lose patience to find Him. |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by orisa37: 5:29pm On Sep 04, 2015 |
finofaya: |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by orisa37: 5:57pm On Sep 04, 2015 |
No. God knows you and loves all His creatures but you lack the character to know God. I shall make Heaven. |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by fearlesschicken: 6:11pm On Sep 04, 2015 |
Maybe when other life forms have been proven to exist 1 Like |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by menesheh(m): 7:29pm On Sep 04, 2015 |
orisa37: who care what the bible said. you want to defend the bible from the bible. 1 Like 2 Shares |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by menesheh(m): 8:21pm On Sep 04, 2015 |
orisa37: Congratulations for making heaven. Enjoy 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by orisa37: 8:40pm On Sep 04, 2015 |
Thanks. |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by orisa37: 8:57pm On Sep 04, 2015 |
No. In the words of PEJ, I just wish to say, daris God ooo!!!! So athiest stop being ignorant and a bad example to your neighbours. |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by johnydon22(m): 9:22pm On Sep 04, 2015 |
orisa37:1.) Ignorant of what? 2.) what exactly do you mean by bad example? Yea I Pej's voice, it was one funny exclamation.. I still use it till now 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by finofaya: 9:37pm On Sep 04, 2015 |
orisa37: Did I lack the character before or after discovering my atheism? How do I regain the character while being an atheist? Isn't it funny how you require character to know God but you don't need character to know the Sun? Will you think about it? Have a safe trip to heaven. Wear your seat belt and don't overspeed. 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by dabosuker(m): 11:12pm On Sep 04, 2015 |
[b]God created Man, In Man he put Brain, not just any brain, but "Logical brain", brain developed enough 4 reasoning. Am sure that was no mistake, cause God is perfect & can not make mistake, he sees what will happen b4 it even tries to happen. Fine! And now you tell me not to use my God given logical & reasoning Brain to good use Just believe by faith especially when i have the instruments to put the God theory to test ,...na wao..abi you want God to take back the brain?..off course "God forbid" abi....then i must make good use of my brain, so God does not take it away. Look at how far we have come today (2015), Simply because a few people made use of their brains , causing reasoning & logical thinking & evidence , which can be repeated over & over again (Science), if science is a religion, then it would be my religion, the God of Science is more trusting than the doctrines of Religion (Islam/Christianity), In science follow procedure & you must get results,...but in Religion we start hearing "thats how God wants it", "its the will of God", even though we still say its not the will of God that anyone should perish, "Gods time is the best ", God gives & he takes etc... Too much contradiction in that Book called Bible. I stand to defend an MSC thesis in front of Professors & Drs, even with my confidence , they still disprove me & show me flaws in my hypothesis, & methodologies some even argue evidence ,though constructively, Yet I see these same people in Church on sunday & some claimed to be messenger from God/gods tells them a message from the gods/God & they just obey wholeheartedly, putting them self & their loved ones under financial & physical & even emotional stress ..Its like they drop their brains at the entrance of the church , mosque or babalawo house, it baffles me. Sometimes I go to church and i look around & its like all I mostly see are zombies or robots. Any religion that would not let me carry my brain for the ride, can auction my seat . Most of the doctrines in the bible can not be keyed into or they just do not work, Religion would have been more easier if God just answered prayers in "real time" there would be no doubt, Just take a look at Nigeria ..even with all our religion, ...US , China , Apple & Microsoft..etc do not have a "prayer department" ....yet people dont get it that "God would not come down to do what we can do for ourselves", because we have the means to do it. There maybe a God or some Architect some where maybe watching or maybe not even watching, but Christianity (speaking from a Christian point of view) mis understand this Being or Architect , & the Bible ......in fact i dont take that book seriously, because it can not be the basis for morality & the stories in it are not unique, especially when they can be found in texts of other civilizations that date back much older than the bible or christianity, ...I believe most of the stories in bible was never made for the 21st century Man, some were even letters meant for persons, which were later converted to books, its all politics , that metamorphosed to divinity. People , especially young people, please use your brain . [/b] 9 Likes 4 Shares |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by martineverest(m): 11:38pm On Sep 04, 2015 |
What a comment[quote author=dabosuker post=37682151][b]God create, Iut Brain, not just any brain, but "Logical brain", brain developed enough 4 reasoning. Am sure that was no mistake, cause God is perfect & can not make mistake, he sees what will happen b4 it even tries to happen. Fine! And now you tell me not to use my God given logical & reasoning Brain to good use Just believe by faith especially when i have the instruments to put the God theory to test ,...na wao..abi you want God to take back the brain?..off course "God forbid" abi....then i must make good use of my brain, so God does not take it away. Look at how far we have come today (2015), Simply because a few people made use of their brains , causing reasoning & logical thinking & evidence , which can be repeated over & over again (Science), if science is a religion, then it would be my religion, the God of Science is more trusting than the doctrines of Religion (Islam/Christianity), In science follow procedure & you must get results, 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by orisa37: 6:52am On Sep 05, 2015 |
Your atheism has been with you before you were formed in the womb. Your case is like Esau in human and Lucifer in spirit. God can still change all that and make you conform. I cannot recommend anyway now 'cos you will atheistically disregard it. Continue the way you are. God will renew your spirit in His own way and time. The sun is a star, positioned @ 93million miles from us to serve as our Task master. Thesame God you don't want to recognise put it there to prevent easy access to Heaven by atheiests. I am very certain about these. I shall inform you when I am ready to make the trip. Bye for now. |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by davien(m): 8:58am On Sep 05, 2015 |
If there is a god/gods and it has omniscience, then it absolutely knows what would change my mind and for some reason hasn't done it.. 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by tartar9(m): 12:11pm On Sep 05, 2015 |
Even if we sent down the angels to
them; even if the dead spoke to them;
even if we summoned every miracle
before them; they cannot believe
unless GOD wills it. Indeed, most of
them are ignorant (Qur'an 6:111) |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by johnydon22(m): 12:17pm On Sep 05, 2015 |
tartar9:Ok so it is the will of God for some people to be atheists right? 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by Brown47: 2:14pm On Sep 05, 2015 |
orisa37:lol. @bold so your god fix the sun there to prevent atheist from reaching heaven? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by menesheh(m): 2:32pm On Sep 05, 2015 |
1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by hahn(m): 4:07pm On Sep 05, 2015 |
orisa37: 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by orisa37: 8:17am On Sep 06, 2015 |
Adam(till he was deceived by Eve), Abel, Enouch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob(Israel), Aaron, Moses, Joseph(The dreamer), Samuel, David and Jesus Christ were all born righteous. Even Judas Iscariot was born a believer till he turned a deceiver and still died a believer. Can you see what I am seeing in all these? The Bible is a Scripture that is good for Learning and never lying. |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by Nobody: 8:22am On Sep 06, 2015 |
menesheh: I agree with many points you have raised here BUT I do not agree with the bold. Even if you do not consider yourself a Christian, people such as Jesus, Buddha, Mandela, MLK, Ghandi and some others are very much needed today; maybe even more than ever. |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by johnydon22(m): 8:37am On Sep 06, 2015 |
Mindfulness:I think you misunderstood him, he is addressing the line of the fable not the teachings. I for agree with some teachings of these guys and a huge fan of such philosophies. But his assertion was based on the storyline, let me make it clearer for you to understand it. He meant "If the adam and eve story is myth, then there was no original sin and then no need for a messiah to come and die" So he was addressing the mythological antiquity not the idea of Jesus teachings.. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by Nobody: 9:26am On Sep 06, 2015 |
johnydon22: Thank you but this is how I actually understood what was written in the original post and I VERY MUCH agree with the way he reasons. For me personally, however, Jesus is more of an inspiration as a HUMAN BEING, which he was. Whether he was born by a virgin in order to save us from the original sin is a question of belief. I prefer to view him from the humanistic perspective and free of religious dogmas. He was a revolutionary character and some of his teaching could serve humanity a lot if we focused on the essence of his teachings. This is not the question of belief, this is pure logic. Humanity is facing problems caused by the rapid demographic growth coupled with diminishing natural resources and climate change. HUMILITY which he taught could answer many of the most pressing questions and solve some of our problems in a very simple way. To sum it up, we need people like Jesus, not in order to save us from the "original sin" but to save us from all forms of self-destruction. |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by menesheh(m): 9:50am On Sep 06, 2015 |
Mindfulness: Read between the line again. There is these Hierarchy of events that's being coined to arrive to roman Christian believe. Remove anything from the storyline, you spoiled the whole show. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by Nobody: 12:06pm On Sep 06, 2015 |
menesheh: I don't need the show, do you? |
Re: Is There Any Amount Of Evidence That Would Change Your Views? by menesheh(m): 1:09pm On Sep 06, 2015 |
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