₦airaland Forum

fratermathy:
Your idea of language trees and linguistics is faulty. Igboid derives from IGBO speaking groups. There's nothing you'd say that would change my mind. I've been a student and now a scholar of language for more than 6 years. I understand how language trees work. Maybe you should update your 'vast knowledge' of them.

Can you provide a citation for ths claim.Since you claim to be a "scholar" can you tell us by whom and where the term IGBOID was introduced. Please do not trivialize the word SCHOLAR.
I am not even TRYING to change your mind. I am only making a public record of my refutation to your absurd claims.

In any scholastic system you will not find any definition without dates stating when a term entered the lexicon or literature . So kindly tell us with citations, who first used "IGBOID" and where

fratermathy:
Hello Nairalanders ,
I remembered at a point in time, there were lots of threads that hit the front-page about Nigeria's major ethnic groups and their dialects! I remember that of Edo, Igbo, Hausa and Yoruba. However, it ended there. Other ethnic groups were not listed and that trend died. However, it is important to know things like this. For one, speakers and learners of the language can known and learn these things. Other Nigerians and the world at large can understand the internal intricacies of these languages and how they work. Hence, I have decided to revamp this tradition with Nigeria's minority and less known ethnic groups. I am going to be covering most groups and will appreciate speakers of the language to help make the work easier by opening threads and adding facts, correcting errors and what have we in already opened threads.
The Urhobo People as a cultural unit has already been treated by me sometime ago in this thread:https://www.nairaland.com/2133542/interesting-facts-urhobo-people-delta/
However, to recap important points about the Urhobo people as whole, let me start by saying the Urhobo people are a group of people that effectively constitute Nigeria's 5th Largest Ethnic Nationality (Countered by the Ibibios though). They inhabit Delta South(Parts) and Delta Central(Totally). They speak an Edoid language that shares similarities with Afemai and Esan. The Urhobo people are similar and largely deemed as same by some people with the neighbouring Isoko people of Delta South. Urhobo people share common boundaries with the Itsekiris, Ijaws, Isokos, Edos and Ndokwa (Igboid) Ethnic Nationalities. They effectively dominate current Delta State politics due to their large numbers (estimated at 3million). Urhobo people occupy the following local government areas:
1. Okpe
2. Sapele
3. Uvwie
4. Udu
5. Ughelli North
6. Ughelli South
7. Ethiope East
8. Ethiope West
9. Warri South (Shared with Itsekiri)
10. Patani (Shared with Ijaws)
11. Burutu (Shared with Ijaws)
12. Sagbama (in Bayelsa State and shared with Ijaws and Isokos)

Urhobos also have large settlements in Ore, Owo and Okitipupa in Ondo State, Ajegunle and other places in Lagos State, Oro in Kwara State, as well as other clusters across Nigeria.


Now to our main discourse:
Urhobo has never been an homogenous linguistic entity. Since time immemorial, Urhobo has been colored by variation that occur on various levels. These variations manifest in the various Urhobo clans and kingdoms. A specific dialect of Urhobo has even broken off and become an individual ethnic nationality (Isoko). Another dialect is prospecting at this option (Okpe). The main reason for this break-off is that these dialects see themselves as individual groups as much as Ikwerre see themselves as being different from Igbo. Some of the "major dialects" of Urhobo are:
1. Isoko(Also has sub-dialects such as Erhowa, Enwhe and Iyede)
2. Central Urhobo (Agbarho-Ughelli Dialect)
3. Okpe
4. Ughievwien
5. Uvwie
6. Agbon
7. Avwraka (Abraka)
8. Udu
9. Ofoni
10. Orogun
11. Agbarha

These Dialects accounts for the main branches of Urhobo(Clans). Although there are other Urhobo clans such as Ogor, Olomu, Agbarha-Ame, etc but the linguistic features of these clans are either similar to one of the those mentioned above or not too obvious to become a dialect of its own. Most of these clans use central urhobo. The dialects listed are sometimes not mutually intelligible except for Central Urhobo which is the lingua franca of Urhobo People. These various dialectal groups also have peculiar cultural traits. We will not briefly examine these groups one by one.

1. Isoko
The Isoko Dialect of Urhobo is so broad and large that it is effectively a language of its own. Isoko is a proto-Edoid language and hence it is closer to how Urhobo once was when the people said goodbye to their Benin progenitors. Isoko has its own sub-dialects such as Iyede, Erhowa, Enwhe, Olomoro, Oleh, etc. The main dialectal difference between Urhobo and Isoko include; Use of Degwo instead of Migwo for greeting, repetition of utterances and words.i.e. "Yanzobone Yanzobone (Come here, Come here)", different names for various objects, etc. My Isoko people here can help out with more.

2. Central Urhobo (Agbarho-Dialect)
The Agbarho/Ughelli dialect of Urhobo is deemed to be the purest, fluent and undiluted form of Urhobo language. It is understandable by all Urhobo people and has widespread acceptance. It is spoken mainly in Ughelli and Agbarho, a suburb of Warri and Ughelli, both in Ughelli North LGA. This is the version of Urhobo taught at Secondary Schools, College of Education and Delta State University.

3. Okpe
The Okpe Dialect has the largest number of speakers in Urhobo land. They stay in Okpe and Sapele Local Government Areas. They are all ruled over by the Orodje of Okpe, a historical and semi-hereditary traditional kingship and a first class King in Nigeria. The Okpe dialect is considered deep and hard by other Urhobo speakers. In fact, the Okpe dialect is believed by many to be closer to Edo than it is to Urhobo. The average Urhobo man will have a field day understanding Okpe. The differences between Okpe and Central Urhobo is so large that one wonders why it is classed together as Urhobo when it obviously has more connection to Isoko than Urhobo. However, they are culturally the same with Urhobo. Dialectal differences cut across greeting.i.e. Deewho instead of Megwo, names of objects and animals, meaning of common words, etc. My Okpe people, please help me out here with some differences.

4. Ughievwien
When I was growing up, we had two neighbours that were Ughievwien (Ujevwen) people. I remember that my mother always had a field day analysing how funny they spoke. The Ughievwien people occupy Ughelli South LGA. Their major town is Otu-Jeremi with other towns and villages such as Egbo, Effurun-otor, Olomu, etc. These people are simple minded and live in mainly riverine areas. Their language is seen as "impure" and unintelligible by most Urhobo speakers. Their version of Urhobo involves a lot of tongue twisting and tongue rolling. They speak as if they sing. Their words are pronounced differently most times and the stress/tonation is slightly different from Central Urhobo. Ujevwen People, please help me out here with more examples.

5. Uvwie
Uvwie Dialect is spoken by the people that occupy Uvwie LGA in such towns as Effurun, Enerhen, Ugbomro, etc. Their Urhobo is mildly understandable by the average Urhobo speaker. Theirs is an amalgam of Okpe, Agbon and Udu. In their cultural system, the Otota (Spokesman and Prime Minister) found in other Urhobo clans, is replaced with the Unuevworho with similar but slightly different functions. Uvwie people greet differently, some words and their stress placement are also different from central Urhobo. Uvwie people, you know the drill. Its your turn.

6. Agbon
Agbon is spoken by the people of Ethiope East LGA. It is the second largest Urhobo kingdom. The main Agbon divisions include; Okpara, Kokori, Eku, Igun and Ovu-Oviorie. Of these divisions, Okpara is the largest while Kokori speaks a more proto-Agbon, or harder, version. Agbon Urhobo is extremely close to Central Urhobo. Differences are barely noticed. The main differences constitute the physical nuances of Agbon speakers. Other differences include pronunciation of certain words and their usage. Agbon speakers are understood across board. Their main difference is that the dialect is deep. It is the main dialect used in Urhobo proverbs, idioms and metaphysical expositions. If you want to learn Urhobo, dont start with Agbon. Agbon speakers can say more on this

7. Avwraka (Abraka)
The Avwraka dialect of Urhobo is spoken by people who occupy the northern parts of Ethiope East LGA. Their main divisions are; Oruarivie-Abraka and Umiagwa-Abraka, each with its own king. Divisions include; Ekrejeta, Ojeta, Oria, Erho, Ajanomi, Urhuagbesa, Otorho, Urhuoka, Umeghe, etc. Avwraka Dialect is seen as slightly "impure" by most speakers. Their dialect is a simplified version of Urhobo, perhaps too simplistic. The dialect lacks depth and its not as linguistically rich as most dialects. There are also cases of borrowings and adaptations in Avwraka dialect. Maybe the people from Abraka can do more justice to this

8. Udu
This dialect is largely elusive. It is mostly similar to that spoken in Ughievwien and also resembles Uvwie. I'd call it a secondary/mixed dialect of both Ujevwen and Uvwie. However, it is different in its own rights. I haven't met most of its native speakers so my personal knowledge of this dialect is somewhat limited to what others have said. However, it is also "impure" and has a lot of phonological differences with central Urhobo. Udu people occupy Udu LGA, a suburb of Warri. Major towns are Otor-Udu, Aladja, etc. Udu people please help me out.

9. Ofoni
The Ofoni dialect of Urhobo is an offshoot of the Ughelli dialect and it is spoken by Ijoid Tarakiri people in Odurubu and Oduophiri in Patani LGA of Delta State and Ofoni in Sagbama LGA of Bayelsa State. These people have lived alongside the Ijaws for so long that it leaves much to marvel that they have not been acculturated by now. They live far off land and one must fly a speed boat to reach these places on time. As expected, their version of Urhobo has been colorated by Ijaw with so much borrowings, transliterations, adaptations, jugglery, etc etc. I call on the Ofoni people to bail me out here.

10. Orogun
The Orogun Dialect of Urhobo is one of the most unique ones. It is spoken by the Orogun people who occupy Ughelli North LGA. They are close neighbours to the Ndokwa People of Abbi and Amai as well as the Isoko people of Iyede and Owhelogbo. They are mainly bilinguals. Most of the Orogun people can speak/understand Ndokwa(Igboid) and Urhobo. Most also add Isoko to their arsenal. Orogun itself is a kingdom with a King and it has several quarters. Orogun-Urhobo sounds like Ughelli/Agbarho Urhobo, just like the close Agbarha neighbours, but the influence of Ndokwa has penetrated the language. Words are different, syntax becomes juggled, pronunciations take a funny turn, most speakers code-mix and code-switch between Urhobo and Ndokwa and some cant even separate which from which. Only Orogun people can fully explain how unique their dialect is.

11. Agbarha
The Agbarha dialect of Urhobo is spoken, in its various forms, by people in Agbarha and Okere in Warri South LGA, Idjerhe, Mosogar and Oghara in Ethiope West LGA and the aboriginal and eponymous people of Agbarha in Ughelli North LGA. The earlier mentioned groups (Agbarha/Okere Warri, Idjerhe, Mosogar, Oghara) were all migrants from Agbarha-Otor. The Agbarha dialect is similar to central Urhobo spoken in Ughelli/Agbarho. It is not impure per se but it is slightly different and not perceivably shallow. Only experienced speakers of Urhobo can pick out its dialectal differences. Agbarha People, you know the drill



Whew! It's time for me to rest now. Like I said earlier, this dialectal list is not prescriptive but descriptive. IT mainly shows the various forms that the Urhobo language has taken in its development. Aboriginal speakers of the various dialects should contribute meaningfully to this thread by showing us some of the unique features of their dialects. I am not an expert nor do I claim to be but I love language documentation and plan to do what I have done here with other groups such as Ijaw, Itsekiri, Ibibio, Ogoni, Ebira, Igala, Nupe, etc. Let us harmonise ourselves here and eschew tribalism! We are one! Urhobo Ovuo'vo!

. Wo nabo ru den(UDU)..You have done well. We ko bi ruo..well done. Urhobo irere Ivie san....Urhobo,towns of different kings

solodox:
Ok dude am an urhobo fellow with absolutely no uhrobo is the anywhere or way that i can learn? Do you tutor or consult? Or are you just one of the legends of ctrl+c & ctrl+v?

I'm a writer and a lecturer. If you want to learn Urhobo. I can connect you to a Language Center close to you except of course, you are within my terrain.

fratermathy:
Hello Nairalanders ,
I remembered at a point in time, there were lots of threads that hit the front-page about Nigeria's major ethnic groups and their dialects! I remember that of Edo, Igbo, Hausa and Yoruba. However, it ended there. Other ethnic groups were not listed and that trend died. However, it is important to know things like this. For one, speakers and learners of the language can known and learn these things. Other Nigerians and the world at large can understand the internal intricacies of these languages and how they work. Hence, I have decided to revamp this tradition with Nigeria's minority and less known ethnic groups. I am going to be covering most groups and will appreciate speakers of the language to help make the work easier by opening threads and adding facts, correcting errors and what have we in already opened threads.
The Urhobo People as a cultural unit has already been treated by me sometime ago in this thread:https://www.nairaland.com/2133542/interesting-facts-urhobo-people-delta/
However, to recap important points about the Urhobo people as whole, let me start by saying the Urhobo people are a group of people that effectively constitute Nigeria's 5th Largest Ethnic Nationality (Countered by the Ibibios though). They inhabit Delta South(Parts) and Delta Central(Totally). They speak an Edoid language that shares similarities with Afemai and Esan. The Urhobo people are similar and largely deemed as same by some people with the neighbouring Isoko people of Delta South. Urhobo people share common boundaries with the Itsekiris, Ijaws, Isokos, Edos and Ndokwa (Igboid) Ethnic Nationalities. They effectively dominate current Delta State politics due to their large numbers (estimated at 3million). Urhobo people occupy the following local government areas:
1. Okpe
2. Sapele
3. Uvwie
4. Udu
5. Ughelli North
6. Ughelli South
7. Ethiope East
8. Ethiope West
9. Warri South (Shared with Itsekiri)
10. Patani (Shared with Ijaws)
11. Burutu (Shared with Ijaws)
12. Sagbama (in Bayelsa State and shared with Ijaws and Isokos)

Urhobos also have large settlements in Ore, Owo and Okitipupa in Ondo State, Ajegunle and other places in Lagos State, Oro in Kwara State, as well as other clusters across Nigeria.


Now to our main discourse:
Urhobo has never been an homogenous linguistic entity. Since time immemorial, Urhobo has been colored by variation that occur on various levels. These variations manifest in the various Urhobo clans and kingdoms. A specific dialect of Urhobo has even broken off and become an individual ethnic nationality (Isoko). Another dialect is prospecting at this option (Okpe). The main reason for this break-off is that these dialects see themselves as individual groups as much as Ikwerre see themselves as being different from Igbo. Some of the "major dialects" of Urhobo are:
1. Isoko(Also has sub-dialects such as Erhowa, Enwhe and Iyede)
2. Central Urhobo (Agbarho-Ughelli Dialect)
3. Okpe
4. Ughievwien
5. Uvwie
6. Agbon
7. Avwraka (Abraka)
8. Udu
9. Ofoni
10. Orogun
11. Agbarha

These Dialects accounts for the main branches of Urhobo(Clans). Although there are other Urhobo clans such as Ogor, Olomu, Agbarha-Ame, etc but the linguistic features of these clans are either similar to one of the those mentioned above or not too obvious to become a dialect of its own. Most of these clans use central urhobo. The dialects listed are sometimes not mutually intelligible except for Central Urhobo which is the lingua franca of Urhobo People. These various dialectal groups also have peculiar cultural traits. We will not briefly examine these groups one by one.

1. Isoko
The Isoko Dialect of Urhobo is so broad and large that it is effectively a language of its own. Isoko is a proto-Edoid language and hence it is closer to how Urhobo once was when the people said goodbye to their Benin progenitors. Isoko has its own sub-dialects such as Iyede, Erhowa, Enwhe, Olomoro, Oleh, etc. The main dialectal difference between Urhobo and Isoko include; Use of Degwo instead of Migwo for greeting, repetition of utterances and words.i.e. "Yanzobone Yanzobone (Come here, Come here)", different names for various objects, etc. My Isoko people here can help out with more.

2. Central Urhobo (Agbarho-Dialect)
The Agbarho/Ughelli dialect of Urhobo is deemed to be the purest, fluent and undiluted form of Urhobo language. It is understandable by all Urhobo people and has widespread acceptance. It is spoken mainly in Ughelli and Agbarho, a suburb of Warri and Ughelli, both in Ughelli North LGA. This is the version of Urhobo taught at Secondary Schools, College of Education and Delta State University.

3. Okpe
The Okpe Dialect has the largest number of speakers in Urhobo land. They stay in Okpe and Sapele Local Government Areas. They are all ruled over by the Orodje of Okpe, a historical and semi-hereditary traditional kingship and a first class King in Nigeria. The Okpe dialect is considered deep and hard by other Urhobo speakers. In fact, the Okpe dialect is believed by many to be closer to Edo than it is to Urhobo. The average Urhobo man will have a field day understanding Okpe. The differences between Okpe and Central Urhobo is so large that one wonders why it is classed together as Urhobo when it obviously has more connection to Isoko than Urhobo. However, they are culturally the same with Urhobo. Dialectal differences cut across greeting.i.e. Deewho instead of Megwo, names of objects and animals, meaning of common words, etc. My Okpe people, please help me out here with some differences.

4. Ughievwien
When I was growing up, we had two neighbours that were Ughievwien (Ujevwen) people. I remember that my mother always had a field day analysing how funny they spoke. The Ughievwien people occupy Ughelli South LGA. Their major town is Otu-Jeremi with other towns and villages such as Egbo, Effurun-otor, Olomu, etc. These people are simple minded and live in mainly riverine areas. Their language is seen as "impure" and unintelligible by most Urhobo speakers. Their version of Urhobo involves a lot of tongue twisting and tongue rolling. They speak as if they sing. Their words are pronounced differently most times and the stress/tonation is slightly different from Central Urhobo. Ujevwen People, please help me out here with more examples.

5. Uvwie
Uvwie Dialect is spoken by the people that occupy Uvwie LGA in such towns as Effurun, Enerhen, Ugbomro, etc. Their Urhobo is mildly understandable by the average Urhobo speaker. Theirs is an amalgam of Okpe, Agbon and Udu. In their cultural system, the Otota (Spokesman and Prime Minister) found in other Urhobo clans, is replaced with the Unuevworho with similar but slightly different functions. Uvwie people greet differently, some words and their stress placement are also different from central Urhobo. Uvwie people, you know the drill. Its your turn.

6. Agbon
Agbon is spoken by the people of Ethiope East LGA. It is the second largest Urhobo kingdom. The main Agbon divisions include; Okpara, Kokori, Eku, Igun and Ovu-Oviorie. Of these divisions, Okpara is the largest while Kokori speaks a more proto-Agbon, or harder, version. Agbon Urhobo is extremely close to Central Urhobo. Differences are barely noticed. The main differences constitute the physical nuances of Agbon speakers. Other differences include pronunciation of certain words and their usage. Agbon speakers are understood across board. Their main difference is that the dialect is deep. It is the main dialect used in Urhobo proverbs, idioms and metaphysical expositions. If you want to learn Urhobo, dont start with Agbon. Agbon speakers can say more on this

7. Avwraka (Abraka)
The Avwraka dialect of Urhobo is spoken by people who occupy the northern parts of Ethiope East LGA. Their main divisions are; Oruarivie-Abraka and Umiagwa-Abraka, each with its own king. Divisions include; Ekrejeta, Ojeta, Oria, Erho, Ajanomi, Urhuagbesa, Otorho, Urhuoka, Umeghe, etc. Avwraka Dialect is seen as slightly "impure" by most speakers. Their dialect is a simplified version of Urhobo, perhaps too simplistic. The dialect lacks depth and its not as linguistically rich as most dialects. There are also cases of borrowings and adaptations in Avwraka dialect. Maybe the people from Abraka can do more justice to this

8. Udu
This dialect is largely elusive. It is mostly similar to that spoken in Ughievwien and also resembles Uvwie. I'd call it a secondary/mixed dialect of both Ujevwen and Uvwie. However, it is different in its own rights. I haven't met most of its native speakers so my personal knowledge of this dialect is somewhat limited to what others have said. However, it is also "impure" and has a lot of phonological differences with central Urhobo. Udu people occupy Udu LGA, a suburb of Warri. Major towns are Otor-Udu, Aladja, etc. Udu people please help me out.

9. Ofoni
The Ofoni dialect of Urhobo is an offshoot of the Ughelli dialect and it is spoken by Ijoid Tarakiri people in Odurubu and Oduophiri in Patani LGA of Delta State and Ofoni in Sagbama LGA of Bayelsa State. These people have lived alongside the Ijaws for so long that it leaves much to marvel that they have not been acculturated by now. They live far off land and one must fly a speed boat to reach these places on time. As expected, their version of Urhobo has been colorated by Ijaw with so much borrowings, transliterations, adaptations, jugglery, etc etc. I call on the Ofoni people to bail me out here.

10. Orogun
The Orogun Dialect of Urhobo is one of the most unique ones. It is spoken by the Orogun people who occupy Ughelli North LGA. They are close neighbours to the Ndokwa People of Abbi and Amai as well as the Isoko people of Iyede and Owhelogbo. They are mainly bilinguals. Most of the Orogun people can speak/understand Ndokwa(Igboid) and Urhobo. Most also add Isoko to their arsenal. Orogun itself is a kingdom with a King and it has several quarters. Orogun-Urhobo sounds like Ughelli/Agbarho Urhobo, just like the close Agbarha neighbours, but the influence of Ndokwa has penetrated the language. Words are different, syntax becomes juggled, pronunciations take a funny turn, most speakers code-mix and code-switch between Urhobo and Ndokwa and some cant even separate which from which. Only Orogun people can fully explain how unique their dialect is.

11. Agbarha
The Agbarha dialect of Urhobo is spoken, in its various forms, by people in Agbarha and Okere in Warri South LGA, Idjerhe, Mosogar and Oghara in Ethiope West LGA and the aboriginal and eponymous people of Agbarha in Ughelli North LGA. The earlier mentioned groups (Agbarha/Okere Warri, Idjerhe, Mosogar, Oghara) were all migrants from Agbarha-Otor. The Agbarha dialect is similar to central Urhobo spoken in Ughelli/Agbarho. It is not impure per se but it is slightly different and not perceivably shallow. Only experienced speakers of Urhobo can pick out its dialectal differences. Agbarha People, you know the drill



Whew! It's time for me to rest now. Like I said earlier, this dialectal list is not prescriptive but descriptive. IT mainly shows the various forms that the Urhobo language has taken in its development. Aboriginal speakers of the various dialects should contribute meaningfully to this thread by showing us some of the unique features of their dialects. I am not an expert nor do I claim to be but I love language documentation and plan to do what I have done here with other groups such as Ijaw, Itsekiri, Ibibio, Ogoni, Ebira, Igala, Nupe, etc. Let us harmonise ourselves here and eschew tribalism! We are one! Urhobo Ovuo'vo!

. Wo nabo ru den(UDU)..You have done well. We ko bi ruo..well done. Urhobo irere Ivie san....Urhobo,towns of different kings.

omonnakoda:
Can you provide a citation for ths claim.Since you claim to be a "scholar" can you tell us by whom and where the term IGBOID was introduced. Please do not trivialize the word SCHOLAR.
I am not even TRYING to change your mind. I am only making a public record of my refutation to your absurd claims.

In any scholastic system you will not find any definition without dates stating when a term entered the lexicon or literature . So kindly tell us with citations, who first used "IGBOID" and where

This article clarifies on the Igboid groups well: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igboid_languages


Again check this wiki article on your people: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikwerre_people


Kelechukwu Ihemere (2007) is of the opinion that Ikwerre MIGRATED from Owerri, Etche, Ngwa etc. He further claims that after the civil war and conquest of Port-Harcourt, Ikwerre decided to distant themselves from Igbo for obvious reasons. This claim is confirmed by the UN Report on Ikwerre people. Mind you, this writer is an Ikwerre man!

I can keep citing ad infinitum but I have made my point.

fratermathy:
Google Mathias Orhero and see my works. I even have a Wikipedia page.

This article clarifies on the Igboid groups well: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igboid_languages


Again check this wiki article on your people: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikwerre_people


Kelechukwu Ihemere (2007) is of the opinion that Ikwerre MIGRATED from Owerri, Etche, Ngwa etc. He further claims that after the civil war and conquest of Port-Harcourt, Ikwerre decided to distant themselves from Igbo for obvious reasons. This claim is confirmed by the UN Report on Ikwerre people. Mind you, this writer is an Ikwerre man!

I can keep citing ad infinitum but I gave made my point.

The fewer words the better ,stop the election campaign
You have not made ANY POINT

Simple question Mr Scholar

NAME who first used the word Igboid in what publication

DATE What year

How did they define the term Igboid


When people talk too much often they are lying

Answer the simple questions I asked you.

I am not interested in Your Wikipedia page.

HopeAtHand:
Ikwerre hisory is far detached from Igbo..its not about not wanting to associate with them because they literally are on our faces daily but we have to say it as it is.

Igbos trace their origins to Nri and Nri traced himself to Isreal(crazy igbos ), but the Ikwerre clan which i represent are the chidren of Iwhnrohna, the son of Akalaka who left the Benin Empire and settled down in current location of Rivers.

Obviously Akalaka who came with his wife and household and settled needed to interact with the people in neighbouring areas..The location he settled had Igbos as the dominant neighbors..being a far smaller group, him, his family and followers from Benin had to learn to communicate with the larger Igbo tribe for trade and mutual cohesion..that was the origin of the shared words in the Ikwerre and Igbo language.

Igbo being a people who are notorious for being assertive took it upon themselves as an agenda to 'Igbonise' Ikwerre by ensuring Igbo was taught in schools and Igbo language alone was used as official language in Ikwerre areas.

They kept lying to themselves that Ikwerre was Igbos until the missionaries came with the Igbo bible into Ikwerreland and it exposed the Igbo lie as they found that Ikwerre didnt understand what the bible was saying.The missionaries had to commission Ikwerre scholars to write the Ikwerre bible.it was a little reprieve.

Ikwerres being stuck in Eastern region with Igbos, we still actively agitated for a separate region.We were aware of their agenda, we prayed for a breakthrough..It took a while but it came..It came when Gowon created Rivers state in 1967.

This is only one historian's theory!

omonnakoda:
The fewer words the better ,stop the election campaign
You have not made ANY POINT

Simple question Mr Scholar

NAME who first used the word Igboid in what publication

DATE What year

How did they define the term Igboid


When people talk too much often they are lying

Answer the simple questions I asked you.

I am not interested in Your Wikipedia page.

"Manfredi (1982:175-195) suggested the term ‘Igboid’ for ‘those speech forms proximate to an Igbo centre’. Manfredi (1989) used phonological innovations to arrive at sub-grouping of Igboid. The term ‘Igboid’, in turn, has been criticised in many quarters, such as Emenanjo (2001:37) who sees it as continued attempt to bulkanize the Igbo language. Egbokhare et al. (2000:40) described the Igbo speech forms as belonging to an Igbo cluster." as quoted by Ohiri-Anichie(2011)

Manfredi, V. 1982. Centre and periphery in Ika Literacy. Journal of the Linguistic Association of Nigeria, Volume 1. pp. 175-195.
Manfredi, V. 1989. Igboid in Bendor-Samuel, J. (ed.). The Niger-Congo languages.



Meanwhile I gave you my name because you doubted my research pedigree. Keep your invectives in your tongue.

Radoillo:
Wow. Even on an Urhobo thread.

The problem in this thread, as obvious, is being caused by non-urhobos! Urhobos have been calm all through. You can see that!

fratermathy:
"Manfredi (1982:175-195) suggested the term ‘Igboid’ for ‘those speech forms proximate to an Igbo centre’. Manfredi (1989) used phonological innovations to arrive at sub-grouping of Igboid. The term ‘Igboid’, in turn, has been criticised in many quarters, such as Emenanjo (2001:37) who sees it as continued attempt to bulkanize the Igbo language. Egbokhare et al. (2000:40) described the Igbo speech forms as belonging to an Igbo cluster." as quoted by Ohiri-Anichie(2011)

Manfredi, V. 1982. Centre and periphery in Ika Literacy. Journal of the Linguistic Association of Nigeria, Volume 1. pp. 175-195.
Manfredi, V. 1989. Igboid in Bendor-Samuel, J. (ed.). The Niger-Congo languages.



Meanwhile I gave you my name because you doubted my research pedigree. Keep your invectives in your tongue.

1982? And you call yourself a scholar? Since this started you have been creating a wikipedia page?
Please keep quiet and stop exposing yourself to ridicule.
Anyone who knows anything about this subject knows the foremost authority is Kay Williamson
http://www.rogerblench.info/KWEF/KW%20Works/Kay%20publications.htm
the term Igboid appears in her works in 1974 and even earlier.

Please stop making noise!!

How did this thread degenerate into the constant obsessive arguments about who is Igbo and who is not. This is purely a language based thread and Okpe people can decide to form their own ethnicity but it doesn't change the fact that they will remain a dialect of the greater Urhobo. The same thing applies to groups such as the Ikwerre. The term "Igboid" is a term that unites all the BIA speaking group whether or not they are explcitly part of the Igbo ethnic umbrella.

omonnakoda:
1982? And you call yourself a scholar? Since this started you have been creating a wikipedia page?
Please keep quiet and stop exposing yourself to ridicule.
Anyone who knows anything about this subject knows the foremost authority is Kay Williamson
http://www.rogerblench.info/KWEF/KW%20Works/Kay%20publications.htm
the term Igboid appears in her works in 1974 and even earlier.

Please stop making noise!!

You don't have to use invectives to make your points . It doesn't speak well of you. If you are rational as you think yourself to be then provide exactly the extract in which the term "Igboid" was used by Williamson (1974). Kay Williamson discussed Igboid groups! She never defined it and that was your question. Wasn't it?

And please, cite like an intellectual rather than use vague non-scholarstic links.

fratermathy:
I'm a writer and a lecturer. If you want to learn Urhobo. I can connect you to a Language Center close to you except of course, you are within my terrain.

FESTAC town bawse! what can you do for me?

Afam4eva:
How did this thread degenerate into the constant obsessive arguments about who is Igbo and who is not. This is purely a language based thread and Isoko people can decide to form their own ethnicity but it doesn't change the fact that they will remain a dialect of the greater Urhobo. The same thing applies to groups such as the Ikwerre. The term "Igboid" is a term that unites all the BIA speaking group whether or not they are explcitly part of the Igbo ethnic umbrella.

Please correct the boldened. It's Isoko, not Okpe, that are stirring up still waters.

Secondly, the Igboid Ikwerre people have hijacked the thread, derailed it and made it about themselves. So sentimental, as expected.

fratermathy:
Please correct the boldened. It's Isoko not Okpe that are stirring up still waters.

Secondly, the Igboid Ikwerre people have hijacked the thread, derailed it and made it about themselves. So sentimental, as expected.

I was actually referring to Okpe and not Isoko. We already know that Isoko people haave this penchant of detaching themselves from the greater Urhobo. I was just giving an instance, that if the Okpe people in maybe 100 years due to some political considerations, decide to form a new ethnic identity seperate from Urhobo, they have the right to but their language will never stop being a dialect of Urhobo.

solodox:
FESTAC town bawse! what can you do for me?

Hmm. I'm not Lagos though but I can direct you. Send me a message (mathias@okjournals.org) so we can liaise in confidence.

The reason why I always disgree with Afam is he suffers from the affliction of being unable to distinguish desire from reality

The term Igboid means what it means not what you want it to mean or what you believe it should mean

It was introduced to the best of my knowledge by Kay Williamson a linguistic scholar whose concern was linguistics NOT uniting people.

Her purpose was to describe things as they are in very much the same way a botanist or zoologist would.
So we cannot say a bat is a bird because it flies or a turtle is a fish because it swims.
Logic does not allow that.
Igboid means one thing and one thing only it is a linguistic classification.

To illustrate I will give one example.

English is a "Germanic" language by linguistic classification. This means English along with Deutsche, Netherlands and other languages have the same origin . It does not say anything else and even less about the PEOPLE

Bringing this back to Igboid.
There is no dispute that Ikwerre,and other Igbo languages have the same origin or origins or even that igboid languages have a similar origin to NON_-Igboid languages in Nigeria and Cameroon. It is illogical to imagine otherwise .

However The term Igboid was introduced somewhere by someone for some reason. It was an academic enterprise in the arena of LINGUISTICS and not culture or history to twist that usage to something else is dishonest.
The reality is the term has limited utility outside linguistics no more than a computer language does for speaking to computers. To try to remove the term from that context and then to extend its use for historical or anthropological validation is dishonest.

In all reality it is a very technical term that has no place in civilian conversation because its original meaning is distorted
It is a descriptive just like we call a lion a cat it does not tell us anything about the biology of lions and cats.

I have no doubt there were big enough sublanguages which if they had been if the forefront of contact with Europeans would have been used and so we may have been talking of Ngwaoid, Arooid or Ezzioid.etc

fratermathy:
Hmm. I'm not Lagos though but I can direct you. Send me a message (mathias@okjournals.org) so we can liaise in confidence.

will do!

fratermathy:
And please, cite like an intellectual rather than use vague non-scholarstic links.

Mr Intellectual who cannot spell scholastic

fratermathy:
Google Mathias Orhero and see my works. I even have a Wikipedia page.

This article clarifies on the Igboid groups well: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igboid_languages


Again check this wiki article on your people: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikwerre_people


Kelechukwu Ihemere (2007) is of the opinion that Ikwerre MIGRATED from Owerri, Etche, Ngwa etc. He further claims that after the civil war and conquest of Port-Harcourt, Ikwerre decided to distant themselves from Igbo for obvious reasons. This claim is confirmed by the UN Report on Ikwerre people. Mind you, this writer is an Ikwerre man!

I can keep citing ad infinitum but I have made my point.

Are these examples of your intellectual citations?

Stop running from pillar to post You are the one who came here telling us what Igboid means and who first used it


Your claim is untrue it was not 1982 . Please have the decency to admit that

You are no scholar just a pretender and a charlatan who is doctoring stuff of Wikipedia

That Deewho and Migwo sounds like Igbo Ndewo and Mmingwo. What's the relationship between Igbo and Urhobo?

Nice

LKO:
I rep Udu (Ovwian), Uvwie (Ekpan) and Ujevwen (Eyara). Proudly Urhobo.

I neva knew i will find my brother here on nairaland. Air me ur mail, bbm pin nd whatsapp number

omonnakoda:
Mr Intellectual who cannot spell scholastic




Are these examples of your intellectual citations?

Stop running from pillar to post You are the one who came here telling us what Igboid means and who first used it


Your claim is untrue it was not 1982 . Please have the decency to admit that

You are no scholar just a pretender and a charlatan who is doctoring stuff of Wikipedia

@ omonnakoda: You can sight a mechanical error and cannot construct syntactically correct utterances.

It is alright Mr Igboid Ikwerre! I guess your tribalistic sentiments have made you famous now. Write an article on this (a scholarly one) and send to my journal here: okjournals.org and I may consider it for publication.

fratermathy:
It is alright Mr Igboid Ikwerre! I guess your tribalistic sentiments have made you famous now. Write an article on this (a scholarly one) and send to my journal here: okjournals.org and I may consider it for publication.

vainglorious vapidity

omonnakoda:
vainglorious vapidity

You have done nothing on this thread than prove to the world that you are nothing but a sentimental tribalist who has no regards for true research and cannot even meta-analyse data with direct responses. You have proven to the world that your stock is nothing but a feather that floats upon a lake which terminates on land.

Secondly, I asked you to simply cite where Kay Williamson defined the term Igboid in an scholarly a way as possible and what do I get? Invectives, digressions, anecdotes and the lot: the symbol of the true underground scholar that you are!


I didn't even bring anything IGBOTIC to this thread. You brought it with your unappreciative comment that Ikwerres are not Ibos when the whole world knows that Ikwerres are even more Igbotic than Enugu people. You also proved that Ikwerres are insultive and violent by your actions here. There are some things that shouldn't be argued Mr Omonnakoda. Arguing them debase you to a bestial being with no regards for intellectualism.

fratermathy:
You have done nothing on this thread than prove to the world that you are nothing but a sentimental tribalist who has no regards for true research and cannot even meta-analyse data with direct responses. You have proven to the world that your stock is nothing but a feather that floats upon a lake which terminates on land.

Secondly, I asked you to simply cite where Kay Williamson defined the term Igboid in an scholarly a way as possible and what do I get? Invectives, digressions, anecdotes and the lot: the symbol of the true underground scholar that you are!

Data ,Meta analyse?

Please stop the ridiculous bombast?
do you understand the meaning of the term meta-analyse? I doubt that very much because it has no place in anything we are talking about. Empty talk is the escape of charlatans.
What data is here to analyse before we start talking of meta-analysis. You are not a scholar my friend,you are a fake medicine seller.

omonnakoda:
The reason why I always disgree with Afam is he suffers from the affliction of being unable to distinguish desire from reality

The term Igboid means what it means not what you want it to mean or what you believe it should mean

It was introduced to the best of my knowledge by Kay Williamson a linguistic scholar whose concern was linguistics NOT uniting people.

Her purpose was to describe things as they are in very much the same way a botanist or zoologist would.
So we cannot say a bat is a bird because it flies or a turtle is a fish because it swims.
Logic does not allow that.
Igboid means one thing and one thing only it is a linguistic classification.

To illustrate I will give one example.

English is a "Germanic" language by linguistic classification. This means English along with Deutsche, Netherlands and other languages have the same origin . It does not say anything else and even less about the PEOPLE

Bringing this back to Igboid.
There is no dispute that Ikwerre,and other Igbo languages have the same origin or origins or even that igboid languages have a similar origin to NON_-Igboid languages in Nigeria and Cameroon. It is illogical to imagine otherwise .

However The term Igboid was introduced somewhere by someone for some reason. It was an academic enterprise in the arena of LINGUISTICS and not culture or history to twist that usage to something else is dishonest.
The reality is the term has limited utility outside linguistics no more than a computer language does for speaking to computers. To try to remove the term from that context and then to extend its use for historical or anthropological validation is dishonest.

In all reality it is a very technical term that has no place in civilian conversation because its original meaning is distorted
It is a descriptive just like we call a lion a cat it does not tell us anything about the biology of lions and cats.

I have no doubt there were big enough sublanguages which if they had been if the forefront of contact with Europeans would have been used and so we may have been talking of Ngwaoid, Arooid or Ezzioid.etc

What do you even know of Linguistics and Languages? You think it is everything that you browse online?

All these rantings won't change this singular truthful fact:
Ikwerre is as Igbotic as Owerre and Ngwa. Enough said!

omonnakoda:
Data ,Meta analyse?

Please stop the ridiculous bombast?
do you understand the meaning of the term meta-analyse? I doubt that very much because it has no place in anything we are talking about. Empty talk is the escape of charlatans.
What data is here to analyse before we start talking of meta-analysis. You are not a scholar my friend,you are a fake medicine seller.

\


Thank you my friend.

A fake medicine seller is much better than a mad man who trolls Urhobo threads and stirs up tribalism, bigotry, invectives and what not.

fratermathy:
\


Thank you my friend.

A fake medicine seller is much better than a mad man who trolls Urhobo threads and stirs up tribalism, bigotry, invectives and what not.

You definitely are the rabid lunatic stirring up bigotry claiming Isoko are Urhobo and Ikwerre are Igbo. You are indeed a terrorist

omonnakoda:
You definitely are the rabid lunatic stirring up bigotry claiming Isoko are Urhobo and Ikwerre are Igbo. You are indeed a terrorist

Urhobo is Edoid, Isoko is Urhoboid and Ikwerre is Igboid. Accept it or not, it wont CHANGE ANYTHING!!! Ikwerre has and will ALWAYS continue to be identified as Igboid. Nothing can change that, especially when you bear names like Odili, Amaechi, Nyesom, Chukwunonso, Diobi, Ada, Eze, etc. You can strap a bomb to your public region and mount a horse without a saddle if you dont like it. Tribal bigot! No wonder your people are always at loggerheads with the Yorubas on Nairaland!

proudly urhobo

fratermathy:
Urhobo is Edoid, Isoko is Urhoboid and Ikwerre is Igboid.

Ikwerre language is classed as Igboid. I agree. I have no problem with that. So there is no argument.

The names they bear is a cultural/anthropological issue and has nothing to do with Linguistics. Nigerians bear all manner of names like Goodluck,Government,Heineken and Ibrahim. So much for your claims to scholarship. Your thinking is so incoherent. What does the names a people bear have to do with the classification of their language. Anyhow like I said I have never disputed that the Ikwerre language is Igboid.
You need to learn logic
You just introduced a new term: Urhoboid

fratermathy:
Urhobo is Edoid, Isoko is Urhoboid and Ikwerre is Igboid. Accept it or not, it wont CHANGE ANYTHING!!! Ikwerre has and will ALWAYS continue to be identified as Igboid. Nothing can change that, especially when you bear names like Odili, Amaechi, Nyesom, Chukwunonso, Diobi, Ada, Eze, etc. You can strap a bomb to your public region and mount a horse without a saddle if you dont like it. Tribal bigot! No wonder your people are always at loggerheads with the Yorubas on Nairaland!

Mr Scholar you really need to learn how to spell.

You are the one who is a tribal bigot jumping to all manner of moronic conclusions. Who are my people