₦airaland Forum

PastorOluT:
Agreed, going by ur example, Judas was a dog amidst d 12 which was why he was the one to betray the master. If we go by that then it would be assumed Judas has no choice right from the onset?

Is that what u mean when u said it must be Judas?

There is something known as FOREKNOWLEDGE and also FOREDAINING.
FOREKNOWLEDGE is simply knowledge of facts beforehand while FOREDAINING is orchestrating them beforehand. By the scriptures prophesying the betrayal is not meant God staged it.

If you believe in absolute determinism, God is the author of every event including what am about to type and the spelling mistakes as well not to mention when I will pick my nose or scratch my head and how many times I will blink.......worse, it makes God the author of SIN including Satan rebelling.

But God does not control every nook and cranny. He gave man Freewill and in so doing, He allows him some latitude. A good example of this would be in Eden, where God brings animals to the man to see the names he would give them. Did God know the names before Adam thought about them? The answer is Yes since He knows the end from the beginning. But did he actually make Adam give those specific names? The answer is a resounding no.

Likewise, Jesus Christ is the Lamb slain 'from the foundation of the earth' meaning offered before man ever sinned. Why did God offer him from the foundation? Is it because He knew He would make man sin and thus need His Son's precious blood or is it not simply because He knew man would sin?

Further, why is God wroth with Adam for sinning if He made him sin in the first place?

Do you see confusing FOREKNOWLEDGE and FOREDAINING leads to absurdities?


Your question of what if I can assure you is not original. It has been analyzed years before you were born. I certainly heard about it from elsewhere eons before.

If God rigs human beings to rebel against Him then God is illogical and a sadistic monster.

If I may mention it, this unfortunately is the logical conclusion of Calvinism and Reformed Theology.

Selah

dorox:
How about this example. Imagine this man while carrying doing his job as an airline security employee charged with the duty of bagage inspection, someone offered him a small bribe to allow to him carry a quantity of palm oil that is more than the amount of liquids he is allowed on the flight. Now his better judgement was to decline, but on remembering that his daughter is in desperate need for an operation that he doesn't have the money for, he rationalised that it is just food, there surely can't be any harm done if he allowed the passanger to have his bottle of palmoil, moreover he has pressing needs for the money. Then it was announced after a few hours that the plane blew up half way through its journey. And it was subsequently established that the bomb that brought the plane down was smuggled unto the plane disguised as a bottle of palm oil.
Obviously the security man will feel devastated with guilt that his apparently innocuous lapse of judgement has cost hundreds of lives.
For such a man in the sight of God, I believe there exist a pathway for his savation if he is repentant, remorseful,and reports himself and his actions to the authorities.
Now contrast this tale with another where the security guard knowingly allowed a bomb to be smuggled into a plane after he was offered the kind of money he had always dreamt of having to live a good life.
I believe that a person like that have no path to salvation even if he later comes to regret his action or feel remorseful after seeing hundreds of bodies from the accident on tv.
My point is that Jesus came for the unrighteous humans who by nature will always fall short of God's standard. He did not come to save the wicked pharisee-like people whom he called serpents, broods of vipers. He pronounced woe on them instead of calling for their repentance. Read Matthew chapter 23.

Hmm, the two sceneros u painted is a sin of the flesh cos its only man alone that can sin d sin of d flesh n not spirits. The 2 men would b forgiven if they 'repented' and ask forgiveness, note I said repented n not remorseful.

Once u are a man n u have nt cross d borderline of d sin against the Holy Spirit which by d way its nt an easy sin to commit. Sinning against the Holy Spirit is not a sin u commit in ignorance, u must have come to know the secret of the devil as stated in the book of revelation.

So in conclusion on the example u cited, d issue is repentance or just being remorseful n not d sin of d flesh cos both are sin of the flesh.

anukulapo:
Yes,he doesn't. His nature chose him.

If someone was needed to deny Jesus, Peter won't have had a choice. His mouth was available. More like the parrot among birds.

Fully agreed with the statement, 'his nature chose him', bt I will want to believe u dont mean his human nature (frailty which we all possess bt his consequent actions) and this exactly is my point all along.

@ vooks, all u said is unnecessary (not that its wrong anyways) cos tho it was prophesied 4 God knows the end from the beginnin, his actions (even before he met Christ) chose him.

PastorOluT:
Fully agreed with the statement, 'his nature chose him', bt I will want to believe u dont mean his human nature (frailty which we all possess bt his consequent actions) and this exactly is my point all along.

@ vooks, all u said is unnecessary (not that its wrong anyways) cos tho it was prophesied 4 God knows the end from the beginnin, his actions (even before he met Christ) chose him.

Actions don't choose people

PastorOluT:
Hmm, the two sceneros u painted is a sin of the flesh cos its only man alone that can sin d sin of d flesh n not spirits. The 2 men would b forgiven if they 'repented' and ask forgiveness, note I said repented n not remorseful.

Once u are a man n u have nt cross d borderline of d sin against the Holy Spirit which by d way its nt an easy sin to commit. Sinning against the Holy Spirit is not a sin u commit in ignorance, u must have come to know the secret of the devil as stated in the book of revelation.

So in conclusion on the example u cited, d issue is repentance or just being remorseful n not d sin of d flesh cos both are sin of the flesh.

Hebrews 6:4-8 tells you why Judas sin is unforgivable, it is quoted below from NIV.

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

vooks:
Actions don't choose people

Smile, really? I guess u didn't see this?

Fully agreed with the statement, 'his nature chose him', bt I will want to believe u dont mean his human nature (frailty which we all possess bt his consequent actions) and this exactly is my point all along.

NB We all posses the same nature, but our consequent actions differs which either make or mar us.

Hello to all.

@Op

Is this Thread open only to Bible believers? Can People who have other spiritual convictions share their humble perceptions on the issue at stake? I know that God exists and that Jesus is God the son, however, it is my principle never to enter in a debate restricted to the adherents of a specific religious book, be it the Bible/Koran/etc. I also do not criticize nor belittle those various books. If the OP indicates that I can still comment, then I'd be glad to offer my views.

I wish all blessings.

LoJ:
Hello to all.

@Op

Is this Thread open only to Bible believers? Can People who have other spiritual convictions share their humble perceptions on the issue at stake? I know that God exists and that Jesus is God the son, however, it is my principle never to enter in a debate restricted to the adherents of a specific religious book, be it the Bible/Koran/etc. I also do not criticize nor belittle those various books. If the OP indicates that I can still comment, then I'd be glad to offer my views.

I wish all blessings.

Hmm, would like to hear from u tho.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4URKHvdky8g&t=14s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxiOheZe4ks&t=28s Judas would have been forgiven much like Peter, but he didn't ask for it