kingston277:

TL; just skimmed. It's all just theatrics anyway.

Congrats, you read a few basic books that every soul whom has possessed an ounce of interest in human cultures has read. The truly dedicated ones however go beyond that and actually seek to learn the history & culture to understand how a group of people got to where they are today. Without preconceived bs.

You "researched" Africa's history but only mention a handful of post-colonial events and a few controversial but mildly relevant events outside of Africa by blacks. You are unable to even pretend you have more than superficial knowledge on the thousand-year history of the second largest continent on earth, you're just here to drum up attention with these click-bait topics. Thankfully others here have exposed your fraudulence early on.

As for the last part. If I haven't mentioned on here before, I will do once more. There is no such thing as race in the way you are describing. Define race? What are the parameters of where a race begins and ends? Geneticists looked at it and didn't find any "black" or "white" genes; They did find Igbo genes, however. Can't use skeletal forensics either, because each tribe is identifiable from their remains, like how they traced a 30,000 year old skeleton in Germany to the Khoisan. Not to mention forensics specialists classify "African" skeletal forms as Tropical because of the fact that native Australians and South Americans shared similar forms.

Smh. Some of the biggest actors I've seen on the internet have come from NL. Must be that failed education system mixed with abrahamic religion.

bla bla bla, someone like me would be demeaning myself to waste time arguing with a simple minded person like you.

Show me an IQ above 100, and then we will talk. Otherwise just go fuq yourself.

kleek:

Show me an IQ above 100, and then we will talk.

So basically the West after the 1970s.

Captainswag225:
Op, that's a lie,,,,,,, don't let the whites deceive u,,,,,,, the Blackman is highly intelligent...we have been brainwashed by the whites. What I will agree is the Blackman is lazy. The Asians are successful today because they didn't use the whites model of development.......every race needs their own model of development so the Blackman has to develop his and stop using the Whiteman's model coz it doesn't work for us and it will always leave us lagging behind them.

You are a dumb, cretinous fuuktard.

Please tell us what you regard as the "black man's model of development" and why that would be better than the "black man using the whiteman's model of development".

Sagamite:


You are a dumb, cretinous fuuktard.

Please tell us what you regard as the "black man's model of development" and why that would be better than the "black man using the whiteman's model of development".

sagamite! long time ooo

I don't have much time right now to discuss the general idea of this thread in great detail, but I probably will near the end of December or the beginning of January. Also, after reading most of the thread, I think if I did join the discussion we might just go over most of the same ground we did in that eugenics thread from before. I'll come back to the thread later with a different line of argument later though.

pleep:
I didnt say Europeans built that building, i said that building is not impressive.

Its a nice thatched roof house form the late 1800's or early 1900's, a time when the west already had steamships, machine guns and telegram wires. Is that how low your standards are? Really brother, black people can do better than this. Abandon the false pride, stop thinking about white people for a second and turn inwards. The black race has failed, we were defeated because we were backwards.

Does a thatched roof house really compare to:

Though it may be hard to believe now, black Africans did build structures, some of which, even in the 19th century, the same Europeans (who did indeed have steamships, machine guns, telegraphy, etc.) found impressive. This comes through more clearly in written sources. Another thing that becomes more obvious when one reads more descriptions is that the surviving images we have of important buildings from historical African states are not really the best ones that would have conveyed how impressive these kingdoms were when they were thriving. Of course, that is mostly our (Africans') fault for not keeping a better record of things, but it is something to keep in mind when using the limited catalog of images we do have to try to get an idea of what those kingdoms built in the past.

PhysicsQED:
I don't have much time right now to discuss the general idea of this thread in great detail, but I probably will near the end of December or the beginning of January. Also, after reading most of the thread, I think if I did join the discussion we might just go over most of the same ground we did in that eugenics thread from before. I'll come back to the thread later with a different line of argument later though.

I cleaned up the discussion and moved it here: https://www.nairaland.com/2783928/intellectual-discussion-black-people-lower#40730617

PhysicsQED:


Though it may be hard to believe now, black Africans did build structures, some of which, even in the 19th century, the same Europeans (who did indeed have steamships, machine guns, telegraphy, etc.) found impressive. This comes through more clearly in written sources. Another thing that becomes more obvious when one reads more descriptions is that the surviving images we have of important buildings from historical African states are not really the best ones that would have conveyed how impressive these kingdoms were when they were thriving. Of course, that is mostly our (Africans') fault for not keeping a better record of things, but it is something to keep in mind when using the limited catalog of images we do have to try to get an idea of what those kingdoms built in the past.

I know that black Africans built structures. However, referencing the fact that we did is a terrible way to argue against the suggestion that black people are unintelligent. The two issues are unrelated. If they were related, and if the quality of buildings historically built in an area were a measure of intelligence of its people the black race would be much stupider than even I believe. Buildings built in the west were infinitely superior objectively speaking.

The relative lack of sophistication in African architecture was the result of an environment not conducive to sophisticated building. Basically the "Guns Germs and Steel" argument; lack of the required types of stone/other materials and lack of 'civilizational' development caused by lack of surplus producing crops (cassava was not even introduced to the region until the 1600's).

Comparing historical African buildings to European buildings is like comparing apples to oranges. Kingston was retarded enough to make that comparison so i was forced to show him how stupid it was. This is why I have very little patience to talk to these types of people without insulting them.

PhysicsQED:


Though it may be hard to believe now, black Africans did build structures, some of which, even in the 19th century, the same Europeans (who did indeed have steamships, machine guns, telegraphy, etc.) found impressive. This comes through more clearly in written sources. Another thing that becomes more obvious when one reads more descriptions is that the surviving images we have of important buildings from historical African states are not really the best ones that would have conveyed how impressive these kingdoms were when they were thriving. Of course, that is mostly our (Africans') fault for not keeping a better record of things, but it is something to keep in mind when using the limited catalog of images we do have to try to get an idea of what those kingdoms built in the past.

As for African buildings being more sophisticated than is commonly assumed, I agree. However, In the scheme of things I don't see these buildings as an achievement, they are just examples of people making the most out of a bad environment.

We cannot hold the opinion that African Architecture was objectively good compared to other societies without first rejecting the Guns Germs and Steel theory. Do you reject that theory?

pleep:
I know that black Africans built structures. However, referencing the fact that we did is a terrible way to argue against the suggestion that black people are unintelligent. The two issues are unrelated. If they were related, and if the quality of buildings historically built in an area were a measure of intelligence of its people the black race would be much stupider than even I believe. Buildings built in the west were infinitely superior objectively speaking.

What I meant to point out is basically this:

At every stage of history, from ancient to "medieval" times, up until about the late 19th century, there was some African polity that had great architecture that could compete favorably in aesthetic quality and visual appeal with buildings from anywhere else around the world - that is what the surviving written and archaeological evidence about various African states strongly suggests.

The relative lack of sophistication in African architecture was the result of an environment not conducive to sophisticated building. Basically the "Guns Germs and Steel" argument; lack of the required types of stone/other materials and lack of 'civilizational' development caused by lack of surplus producing crops (cassava was not even introduced to the region until the 1600's).

Comparing historical African buildings to European buildings is like comparing apples to oranges. Kingston was retarded enough to make that comparison so i was forced to show him how stupid it was. This is why I have very little patience to talk to these types of people without insulting them.

The areas that the best of African architecture lagged behind in when compared to the best of Asian or European architecture was not in aesthetic quality or visual appeal but mostly in technical aspects. I am not denying that the absence of better building materials throughout much of the continent was an issue - it definitely was an issue, and the technical advantages that some non-African architectures enjoyed over many African architectures outside of the areas of Kush/Nubia and Ethiopia are not something I would deny. But to pretend that there was a lack of sophistication in the best of African architecture in terms of aesthetics would be to deny what the written sources state.

To give one example from the 19th century of aesthetic appeal, the palace of the ruler of Ilesha, in the southwestern part of Nigeria, was described by the American missionary W.H. Clarke, who saw it in 1856: "As I approached the residence of the king, its size, fine appearance and beautiful location satisfied me that this was the royal palace. . ." He also described the building as "truly impressive and interesting", remarked that "some of the pillars and timbers of this building are quite massive for the management of the people who know nothing of the mechanical arts and labour-saving machines" and noted that the interior of the building had a "fine court" that was 80 by 160 feet in area. (The source for these quotes is Clarke's book Travels and Discoveries in Yorubaland 1854–1858).

Needless to say, there is not a single surviving sketch or photograph of this building when it actually existed in the condition Clarke saw it in.

Another example, also from the beginning of the 20th century is Lord Lugard's reaction upon seeing the Kano city walls when the British invaded:

"The force reached Kano, where the extent and formidable nature of fortifications
surpassed the best-informed anticipation of our officers. Needless to say, I have never
seen, or imagined, anything like this in Africa. The wall was 11 miles in perimeter, with
13 gates all newly built. Subsequent measurement at several points by the Public Works
Department proved the walls to be from 30 to 50 ft high and about 40 ft thick at the base,
with a double ditch in front. . ."

The battered remnants of the Kano walls today are in a state of complete and utter decay.


Yet another example. Consider the "royal road" of Dahomey:

"Nineteenth-century European visitors to the kingdom of Dahomey
were not easily impressed, certainly not by any infrastructural refinement.
So when one after another perceived grandeur in the
Cana-Abomey road, it was no small compliment. For French travelers
the road was "magnifique," "superbe," a "merveille," "fort
belle," "vraiment belle," or "des plus belles."1 For British travelers
"splendid" or - perhaps the ultimate accolade - as broad as any
thoroughfare in England.2
This remarkable road was the last leg of the regular route from
Dahomey's Atlantic port of Whydah to the royal capital at Abomey.
Its basic purpose was not to impress foreigners on their approach
to the capital, as one might imagine, but to allow the kings of
Dahomey to travel to and from Cana in style."


"Besides the road's width, Europeans were most impressed by the
trees that lined it. Fraser says that in places the trees were "apparently
equidistant," but at any rate they were planted close enough
to each other to provide frequent shade.2" By the mid-nineteenth
century some were very big. Beecroft (1850) saw "large majestic
Trees, towering over the heads of quantities of the beautiful Palm
Trees interspersed under their lofty Protection [sic] branches. "29 In
1863 Borghero said the road was bordered by "gigantic trees" that
gave it "an imposing look."30 Burton (1864) remarked that many
trees along the road were pollarded to increase the shade.3' By the
early 1890s the whole length was said to be shaded by "splendid
arches of verdure."32 Lissner said some trees were so huge "their
branches alone are as thick as the trunks of European forest veterans."


"Fraser rated the royal road environs "by far the prettiest part of the
journey" from the coast."4 Bouit called the countryside "extremely
beautiful," with "pretty dwellings [and] rich croplands extending as
far as one could see on both sides of the route.""4 Repin said the lay
of the land favored the traveler with "views both varied and pleasant;
it's a sort of kitchen garden supplying grain and vegetables."42
For Burton, the land from Cana to Abomey was "emphatically the
garden of Dahome, showing a wondrous soft and pleasant aspect...
a succession of palm orchards and grain fields... [with] frequent villages
that stud the fair champaign."43


These three quotes are from:

"Dahomey's Royal Road"
Author: Stanley B. Alpern
Source: History in Africa, Vol. 26 (1999), pp. 11-24
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3172135


Of course, neither the remnants of that road nor the fine countryside and decorations that surrounded it are visible today and I have yet to hear or read of a road in the present Republic of Benin, where Dahomey was located, being described with such enthusiasm by foreign tourists.

These three examples are all from around the 19th century. And there are still other 19th century examples that I could provide of ruins or still standing structures that visitors to areas in Africa besides Nubia, Egypt, or Ethiopia found impressive.

pleep:

As for African buildings being more sophisticated than is commonly assumed, I agree. However, In the scheme of things I don't see these buildings as an achievement, they are just examples of people making the most out of a bad environment.
We cannot hold the opinion that African Architecture was objectively good compared to other societies without first rejecting the Guns Germs and Steel theory. Do you reject that theory?

I do not reject the idea that environment had a huge influence on the differences between much of African architecture and architecture from other parts of the world. I also do not deny that there were some technical/engineering aspects that some Africans were bested in by other parts of the world in terms of architecture.

But it cannot be denied that visitors from outside of Africa do provide unambiguous written evidence of the existence of structures that they thought were impressive and which they compared favorably to that of their own societies at the time of their writing. You can say that kingston is being sentimental and devoid of objectivity or that I am being sentimental and devoid of objectivity on this issue because we are black, but I doubt you could explain away the numerous positive descriptions of various structures throughout Africa that one finds in written records from non-black people as just being centuries and centuries of sentimentality and a lack of objectivity on the part of complete strangers to Africa.

pleep:
sagamite! long time ooo

Yeah, man. You good, mate?

alanmwene:

So Ethiopians don't want MTN in Ethiopia ,yet Ethiopian airlines is flying everywhere?Why not keep your company in Ethiopia?You are arrogant,but you aren't intelligent!

you know, i jst read all my posts and it says like 'we ethiopians are not lyk this, we are lyk this' or whatever, it seems lyk i was superior, but i didn't mean to do that, am very very sorrry! all i was trying to do was to defend my country! everybody is equal, i dnt beleive in superiority. and u can say whatever you want about us, u can call as dull or stupid or as u want if u feel good. but am soo sorrry, for being arrogant, i've fighted for my country i luvvv the most, i always wished to let ppl respect her and i have tried so much. my sorryness includes pleep and every nairalanders.I AM SORRY. you just don't understand how i cry when my ppl and country is hurted. i am truly truly truly sorrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyy.

bump

alanmwene:

Ethiopia was occupied by Mussolini forces and haile selasie had to run for his life and go hide in shame in England.It doesn't matter how long it lasted,the fact is it happened.Anyway,ethiopia is one the most culturally alienated country in Africa.Ethiopians cant claim to be free of colonization when they have been culturally oppressed for 1000s of years.Christianity isn't an Ethiopian autochtone religion,but an imported religion that wiped out all Ethiopian traditional beliefs.Culturally,ethiopians are like Somalis or north sudaneses.The only difference is ,Somalis and sudaneses swear by islam(an imported ideology) and Ethiopians swear by Christianity(imported ideology)

even though Christianity is an imported religion, we don't worship God as any other country in the world. we use Ge'ez and Amharic language in our church and our symbols in our bible. we celebrate finding of the true cross, epiphany, Christmas and other celebrations our own way. did you know we Ethiopian orthodox Christians cover our hair when we go to church, wear long dresses? our way of worshiping God is also one of our big tourist attractions. Somalia is another story, we don't share similar cultures at all. They all are Muslims, while here we have 71% of just only orthodox Christians in the city. hope ya get what am sayin'


here are our celebration pix, how we celebrate finding of the true cross

Ednite:


even though Christianity is an imported religion, we don't worship God as any other country in the world. we use Ge'ez and Amharic language in our church and our symbols in our bible. we celebrate finding of the true cross, epiphany, Christmas and other celebrations our own way. did you know we Ethiopian orthodox Christians cover our hair when we go to church, wear long dresses? our way of worshiping God is also one of our big tourist attractions. Somalia is another story, we don't share similar cultures at all. They all are Muslims, while here we have 71% of just only orthodox Christians in the city. hope ya get what am sayin'


here are our celebration pix, how we celebrate finding of the true cross

epiphany in ethiopia

Ednite:



epiphany in ethiopia

ok how you doing

robosky02:



ok how you doing

long tym no see, huh?
am good, n' u?

Ednite:


long tym no see, huh?
am good, n' u?

very well dear

robosky02:



very well dear

[color=#000099][/color]

Ednite:


[color=#000099][/color]

lol

happy new year

robosky02:



lol

happy new year

happppy newyear!

aint got no pic for u tho

Ednite:


happppy newyear!

aint got no pic for u tho

ooooooooooooohhhhh get one pls lol

robosky02:


ooooooooooooohhhhh get one pls lol

here

Ednite:




here

Omg! i don't know why the pixes am savin' r being too freekin' small these days.

GREAT BIG HUG. . . . . .anyway

Ednite:




here

wow lovely thanks

pleep:

A few days ago, the Nobel Laureate, Dr James Watson, made a remark that is now generating worldwide uproar, especially among the blacks.

He said what to me looks like a self-evident truth. He told The Sunday Times of London in an interview that in his humble opinion, black people are less intelligent than the White people.

Since then, some of us cannot hear anything else but the outrage of black people who feel demeaned by what Watson has said. So many people have called the man names. To be expected, some have said he is a racist. Some even wonder how a "foolish& quot; man like Watson could have won the Nobel Prize. Even white people who, deep in their heart, agree with Watson want to be politically, correct so they condemn the man.

Why are we blacks becoming so reactive, so sensitive to any remarks, no matter how well-meaning, about our failure as a race? Why are we becoming like the Jews who see every accusation as a manifestation of anti-Semitism? I do not know what constitutes intelligence. I leave that to our so-called scholars. But I do know that in terms of organising society for the benefit of the people living in it, we blacks have not shown any intelligence in that direction at all. I am so ashamed of this and sometimes feel that I ought to have belonged to another race.

Nigeria my dear country is a prime example of the inferiority of the black race when compared to other races. Let somebody please tell me whether it is a manifestation of intelligence if a people cannot organise a free, fair and credible elect ion to choose who will lead them. Is it intelligence that we! cannot provide simple pipe-borne water for the people? Our public school system has virtually collapsed. Is that a sign of intelligence? Our roads are impassable. In spite of the numerous sources that nature has made available to us to tap for energy to run our industries and homes, we have no steady supply of electricity. Yet electricity is the bedrock of industrialisation. When you agree with the school of Watson, some say you are incorrect because all these failures are a result of poor leadership. Why must it be us blacks who must always suffer poor leadership? Is that not a manifestation of unintelligence?

In the name of international trade, bilateral co-operation, globalisation and other subterfuges, the norm in the world today is for smart people to appropriate the wealth of other people for themselves and their countries. But more among the blacks than any other race, the practice is to steal from their own country and salt away to other people's country. Is it intell igence that our leaders steal billions of naira and hide in other people's country?

Anywhere in the world today where you have a concentration of black people among other races, the poorest, the least educated, the least achieving, and the most violent group among those races will be the blacks. When indices of underdevelopment are given, black people and countries are sure to occupy the bottom of the ladder. If we are intelligent, why do we not carry first when statistics of development are given?

Look at the African continent. South Africa is the most developed country because of the presence of whites there. This may be an uncomfortable truth for many of us but it exists nevertheless. If the whites had been driven away after independence, we would have seen a steady decline of that country.

In terms of natural endowment, Africa ought to be the richest of the continents but see the mess we have made of the potential for greatness which God in his infin ite wisdom has bestowed upon us. We have proved totally inca! pable of harnessing the abundant natural resources to become great. Today, there is a renewed scramble for the wealth of Africa. China, our new "friend", does not bother about the genocide against fellow blacks in the Sudan by the Arabs who control the affairs of that country. They say they do not want to interfere in the internal affairs of any country. All they want is the oil in Sudan to run their industries. Yet, we blacks have not seen the Chinese action as an affront to our sensitivities. Every race takes us for granted because we are so weak and so foolish, if you permit me to say it.

I am really pained by our gross underachievement as a race. Instead of regarding bitter truths expressed by the likes of Watson as a wake-up call for us to engage in sober reflection, we take to the expression of woolly sentiment. For me, this type of reaction is a further evidence of our unintelligence. A man of intelligence recognises genuine criticism against him and takes ste ps to improve himself in order to prove his critics wrong. But for us blacks, our reaction is to abuse the man who expresses worries about our backwardness.

Other races are deeply worried about us because we are a problem to the world. We suffer from the five Ds: disorderliness, debts, diseases, deaths and disasters. Our disorderliness affects others or else they won't be too bothered about us. Many are afraid because our diseases could infect them. Polio has been eradicated all over the world yet it is still found in Nigeria here. When they give us money to help us eradicate it, our thieving officials will embezzle the money; the virus will spread and endanger the health of not only our people but other people as well.

Out of a shared sense of humanity, some cannot bear to see how we die in thousands almost every day from clearly preventable diseases and causes. For years now, our people die extremely painful but perfectly preventable deaths from buildings whi ch collapse because they were poorly constructed. How can yo! u tell m e we are as intelligent as others when we set traps for ourselves in the name of houses and others do not do so? Some people are extremely frustrated about us. If they have a way of avoiding us, they will be too glad to do so because we are a problem.

As I write this, I do so with great pains in my heart because I know that God has given intelligence in equal measure to all his children irrespective of the colour of their skin. The problem with us black people is that we have refused to use our intelligence to organise ourselves socially and politically.

It should worry us that we do not invent things. We do not go to the moon. Our societies are not well-organised. We have the shortest lifespan of all the races. Something must be wrong with us. Why are we not like others? Our scholars will be quick to say that these are not the only ways of measuring intelligence. They will quote other scholars to adumbrate their point, but the fact remains that we are not showi ng intelligence. Others are showing it more than we're doing. If they are not more intelligent than we are, let someone tell me how to put it. God himself must be frustrated with his black children. They must be an embarrassment to him. He has given us everything he has given to other of his children; why are his black children not manifesting their own gift?

A few years ago, the whites used to contemptuously call the Japanese "little Japs". Today, the Japanese and other Asians have pulled themselves up by the bootstrap and have arrived. No one speaks of the Japanese or Asians with contempt anymore. When people like Watson speak about us in unedifying terms, we should take it as a challenge to prove them wrong by sitting down to plan how we can become world-beaters.

If our political leaders are the reason for our backwardness, we should resolve to get the kind of leaders who will be instrument for our rapid progress. I may not know how intelligence is measured but my limited knowledge of intelligence is that i! t can al so be measured by the kind of leaders a people decide to have. If, for instance, our professors preside over the massive rigging of elections, it means that we do not have very intelligent professors. Such rigged elections will no doubt produce unintelligent leaders. Such unintelligent leaders will do stupid things which will prove that we are not as intelligent as other races. Do I sound confusing or intelligent?

I am ready for some of our 'patriotic' intellectuals who will write and abuse me for the 'outrage' I have expressed here but I stick to my guns: we lack intelligence and as stated in the Bible, anyone who lacks intelligence should cry unto God who is the custodian of wisdom to bestow some upon him. We should go on our knees today and ask God why we do not appear as intelligent as our other brothers. I am confident God will reveal to us what we must do, and urgently too, to change our terribly unflattering circumstances.

First published 10-25-7
http://allafrica.com/stories/200710250639.html

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