bidexiii:


Wow ....... take it easy now bro, the roovialk attack helo it's not pretty bad and besides not only south Africans are submitting bids for the contract ; China, Russia and American companies are also involved. So no need for BOLDING WHERE (SA) APPEARS.....
Besides buying A ROOVIALK FOR A STAGGERING PRICE OF $40million is seemingly madness to me . When I can get a kamov-50 for a whoopering price of $16million per unit, which the Russian beast outclass the roviak in all ways.
Dude take it easy, for now all finger are crossed....

Your own people said: Recently the NA also considered the South Africa (SA) made Rooivalk attack helicopters after witnessing a demonstration in SA on the capability and employability”. Thrashes your argument that they are poorly made. Crashes and thrashes it really bad.

If you can't afford them cause you guys are paupers, then say that. But we've already confirmed your people were impressed with the capabilities.

Henry240:


The Air Force should concentrate on buying fighter jets, "the more i look at those F-7s the more i have eye problems".

lol at "the more i have eye problems". I thought you guys are ok with the alpha-jets and the 7s.

Patchesagain:




Jesus

Do you boys need a crash course in FIN MAN 101?

$40 includes R& as well as a production run of only 12

Hence why the Rooivalk 2.0 is slated at being viable with a minimum order of 40-70

Same thing with the F35, its crazy expensive now... but when the production run ends it will be the cheapest American jet fighter ever made.

Cool story, however the fact is the Rooivalk is useless.

It gun is weak and it can't hit it's advertised target range.


First things first, you know how things run in South-Africa. Rooivalk 2.0 won't be available for another 10 years.


The probable solution for the Nigerian army would be a Paramount group upgraded MI-24/35. As an African company, Paramount group understands the tropical conditions of the African climate. However if Nigeria were to go with Paramount for upgraded MI-24/25, the main gun would have to change to a more powerful gun.



Nigerian Army has the options of the MI-35M and MI-28N, both platforms more capable and battle proven than the Rooivalk. Infact the MI-35 proved it's mettle in Syria.


The Z-10 attack helicopter is also another capable asset. Very Modern, and very well armed.


Most likely options for Nigeria would be the MI-17 terminator and MI-35M or MI-28N. 6 units each.

Patchesagain:

How is it poorly armed?

One 20mm main gun and poor old grandpa computers.

.

I still believe it's better for the army to go for Mi28. It will address the needs of the army.

iblawi:
I still believe it's better for the army to go for Mi28. It will address the needs of the army.

I love the MI-35M more because it would allow the army more gun stations. It is the world's most heavily armed attack helicopter, with the possibility of two gunners armed with 7.62mm machine guns for day and night attacks, it's a beautiful machine.


The only advantage the MI-28N has over the MI-35M is agiility. When taking into account Nigeria's requirements, i'll go for the MI-35M.

Henry240:



I love the MI-35M more because it would allow the army more gun stations. It is the world's most heavily armed attack helicopter, with the possibility of two gunners armed with 7.62mm machine guns for day and night attacks, it's a beautiful machine.


The only advantage the MI-28N has over the MI-35M is agiility. When taking into account Nigeria's requirements, i'll go for the MI-35M.

Z10 is not a bad option too. It looks very promising.

iblawi:


Z10 is not a bad option too. It looks very promising.

I only wish Z10 on my enemies. That platform is unproven and I am sure most army pilots would not recommend it. It looks childishly deadly in pictures but please don't buy it.

Henry240:


Cool story, however the fact is the Rooivalk is useless.

It gun is weak and it can't hit it's advertised target range.


First things first, you know how things run in South-Africa. Rooivalk 2.0 won't be available for another 10 years.


The probable solution for the Nigerian army would be a Paramount group upgraded MI-24/35. As an African company, Paramount group understands the tropical conditions of the African climate. However if Nigeria were to go with Paramount for upgraded MI-24/25, the main gun would have to change to a more powerful gun.



Nigerian Army has the options of the MI-35M and MI-28N, both platforms more capable and battle proven than the Rooivalk. Infact the MI-35 proved it's mettle in Syria.


The Z-10 attack helicopter is also another capable asset. Very Modern, and very well armed.


Most likely options for Nigeria would be the MI-17 terminator and MI-35M or MI-28N. 6 units each.

Interesting.

The Gun is weak?

The ATAK uses the same gun, and when you thought you were getting that helo all you could do was praise it!

Who says it cant hit advertised range? Clearly it was impressive enough for your military to add it to their "wish list"

Henry240:


One 20mm main gun and poor old grandpa computers.

Same gun as the ATAK - and 20mm is just fine, superior in some regards to the 30mm

Computers are good enough for what is needed

Henry240:



I love the MI-35M more because it would allow the army more gun stations. It is the world's most heavily armed attack helicopter, with the possibility of two gunners armed with 7.62mm machine guns for day and night attacks, it's a beautiful machine.


The only advantage the MI-28N has over the MI-35M is agiility. When taking into account Nigeria's requirements, i'll go for the MI-35M.

Rooivalk has a greater payload than th MI-35M and unlike the MI-35 it can hover in combat situations, and is generally more maneuverable

Dedicated attack helicopters will allways trump the MI-35

Adminisher:


I only wish Z10 on my enemies. That platform is unproven and I am sure most army pilots would not recommend it. It looks childishly deadly in pictures but please don't buy it.

And it costs as much as a Rooivalk even after its massive production run.

iblawi:
just wondering what the airforce will use if army is to use Roovialk, will it be ka-50, or MI 28.

Very often, the army's air wing uses powerful gunships than air force.

Adminisher:


I only wish Z10 on my enemies. That platform is unproven and I am sure most army pilots would not recommend it. It looks childishly deadly in pictures but please don't buy it.

This is the only problem with the Z-10. Asides this, it's capabilities are well grounded, at least on paper.

Patchesagain:


Interesting.

The Gun is weak?

The ATAK uses the same gun, and when you thought you were getting that helo all you could do was praise it!

Who says it cant hit advertised range? Clearly it was impressive enough for your military to add it to their "wish list"

The ATAK is light years more modern, a proven platform and carried a tripple barrel 20 mm.


The army only witnessed a demonstration. The Army's pivot is clearly towards Russian helos.

Patchesagain:


Rooivalk has a greater payload than th MI-35M and unlike the MI-35 it can hover in combat situations, and is generally more maneuverable

Dedicated attack helicopters will allways trump the MI-35

It does have. The MI-35M is the world's most heavily armed attack helicopter.


Nobody hovers in a combat situation. Helicopters usually carry out strafing runs to avoid laser lock-ons or been shot down by enemy AA.

Henry240:


Cool story, however the fact is the Rooivalk is useless.

It gun is weak and it can't hit it's advertised target range.


First things first, you know how things run in South-Africa. Rooivalk 2.0 won't be available for another 10 years.


The probable solution for the Nigerian army would be a Paramount group upgraded MI-24/35. As an African company, Paramount group understands the tropical conditions of the African climate. However if Nigeria were to go with Paramount for upgraded MI-24/25, the main gun would have to change to a more powerful gun.



Nigerian Army has the options of the MI-35M and MI-28N, both platforms more capable and battle proven than the Rooivalk. Infact the MI-35 proved it's mettle in Syria.


The Z-10 attack helicopter is also another capable asset. Very Modern, and very well armed.


Most likely options for Nigeria would be the MI-17 terminator and MI-35M or MI-28N. 6 units each.

You are reasoning like child. In fact, Rooivalk is the most armoured and powerful machine you can ever find today. You have never even seen it at close distance but already you are calling it names just because it is from SA. Surely, if Rooivalk was made in America you would have been going crazy about it over the net. You mentioned that it misses its advertised target range. Is that not the same as riffles? We are told that they snipe a target at 300km, but is that always the case? A stupppid man like you will always blame it on the weapon, yet failing to take human error to account. Calculators and computers are told to be accurate, but will they always give correct answers even if they used by stupppid like you? Nope, the person (man) using them has to be accurate first as for them to always respond with maximum results.

Henry240:


The ATAK is light years more modern, a proven platform and carried a tripple barrel 20 mm.


The army only witnessed a demonstration. The Army's pivot is clearly towards Russian helos.

Surely, you don't know that ATAK is also lightly armoured. It is also proven to be basically a toy.

Henry240:


The ATAK is light years more modern, a proven platform and carried a tripple barrel 20 mm.


The army only witnessed a demonstration. The Army's pivot is clearly towards Russian helos.

Rooivalk is just as capable.

ATAK still only fires a 20mm round

Army witnessed a demonstration and has expressed interest

Henry240:


It does have. The MI-35M is the world's most heavily armed attack helicopter.


Nobody hovers in a combat situation. Helicopters usually carry out strafing runs to avoid laser lock-ons or been shot down by enemy AA.

Rooivalk has a superior payload and with the intergration of new 76mm guided rockets is better armed

No, that is what the hind does in combat, because it cannot hover [in combat] and thus cannot use tree lines, buildings and hills for cover

Patchesagain:


Rooivalk has a superior payload and with the intergration of new 76mm guided rockets is better armed

No, that is what the hind does in combat, because it cannot hover [in combat] and thus cannot use tree lines, buildings and hills for cover

No, the Rooivalk does not. The MI-35 is the world's most heavily armed attack helicopter without a doubt.


All helicopters in combat carry out strafing runs, this is a basic military tactic. Virtually no helicopter except poorly trained South-African pilots engage elements while hovering.

From French engagements in Mali, Russians in Syria, Nigerians in Nigeria, Turks in Turkey and Americans in Afghanistan engagements have been carried out using strafing runs.

Patchesagain:


Rooivalk is just as capable.

ATAK still only fires a 20mm round

Army witnessed a demonstration and has expressed interest

Actually it is the South-Africans who tendered a proposal. The army only witnessed a demonstration but the service favours Russian built helos.


ATAK has 3 barrels.

MI-35M,MI-28,KA-52 tested and trusted platforms and we have experience with russian platforms forget south africa buy russia for a safe and secure society

Adminisher:


I only wish Z10 on my enemies. That platform is unproven and I am sure most army pilots would not recommend it. It looks childishly deadly in pictures but please don't buy it.

Bros, Z10 has not proved it capability in combat yet as you said but it really looks promising. The Pakistani army or airforce is already testing it. And will place order soon.

For me I still prefer the Mi28 considering the current treat the army is facing and the 1 to come.

Henry240:


No, the Rooivalk does not. The MI-35 is the world's most heavily armed attack helicopter without a doubt.


All helicopters in combat carry out strafing runs, this is a basic military tactic. Virtually no helicopter except poorly trained South-African pilots engage elements while hovering.

From French engagements in Mali, Russians in Syria, Nigerians in Nigeria, Turks in Turkey and Americans in Afghanistan engagements have been carried out using strafing runs.

Citations have been posted over and over.

No, the Hind and Ka52 are unqiue. Most helos will engage from stand-off distance or use cover.

Henry240:


Actually it is the South-Africans who tendered a proposal. The army only witnessed a demonstration but the service favours Russian built helos.


ATAK has 3 barrels.

Actually, Nigeria has now announced its interest in the Rooivalk

Only one barrel fires at a time - and it fires the same round

Anyway, the most common sense approach would be to get all of your Mi-35s upgraded by Paramount and so prioritize that over buying new helos

iyb:
MI-35M,MI-28,KA-52 tested and trusted platforms and we have experience with russian platforms forget south africa buy russia for a safe and secure society

Mi-28 and KA-52 have seen about as much combat as the Rooivalk.

Infact, in its entire history we know that the Mi-28 has done limited sorties over Palmyra in Syria and limited sorties in Iraq

KA-52 is only known to have engaged in combat twice - once over Palmyra and once in Dagestan (twice, as in two missions not as in two operations)

Rooivalk is designed for Africans by Africans and is perfectly honed for African conditions, especially "hot and high" operations like in the Nigerian N.E

Patchesagain:


Mi-28 and KA-52 have seen about as much combat as the Rooivalk.

Infact, in its entire history we know that the Mi-28 has done limited sorties over Palmyra in Syria and limited sorties in Iraq

KA-52 is only known to have engaged in combat twice - once over Palmyra and once in Dagestan (twice, as in two missions not as in two operations)

Rooivalk is designed for Africans by Africans and is perfectly honed for African conditions, especially "hot and high" operations like in the Nigerian N.E

Patches Rooilvalk haven't seen combat yet. That is 1 of the things affecting it. The same problem the Z10 have.
Rooilvalk and Z10 are good hardwares but non have been used in real combat yet. (not UN peacekeeping).

Mi28 and Ka52 were used in Syria recently and they are coming from the same country that made Mi24/35 which is the most widely used attack helicopter today. This alone gives many people confidence because hind have proved a lot to those that own them. We both know this can not be said about Rooilvalk and Z10. Although, the story of Z10 would soon change when Pakistan order for them and The Z9 is already in use in some countries like Cameroon, Ghana and others and I believe they are performing well.

Patchesagain:


Actually, Nigeria has now announced its interest in the Rooivalk

Only one barrel fires at a time - and it fires the same round

Anyway, the most common sense approach would be to get all of your Mi-35s upgraded by Paramount and so prioritize that over buying new helos

"On the procurement of befitting helicopters to enable the
full takeoff of the NAAC project, the COAS said the army had
compiled a list of platforms from Russia, America and
Chinese origins which include their stimulator and UAVs. He
however noted that emphasis was made on Russian-made
Mi-17 due to its “ruggedness, operability and multi-role
capability.”
“Different contractors submitted their proposals for supply
which are still being considered."



Nigerian army favours Russian made helicopters.


The T-129 fires a gatling 20mm gun. More power, more kinetic energy, and can hit targets 5km away unlike the less powerful Half-French.



The Nigerian army and the Nigerian air force aren't the same thing you dunce. We are discussing the Nigerian Army Aviation Corps, not the Air Force.

Patchesagain:


Citations have been posted over and over.

No, the Hind and Ka52 are unqiue. Most helos will engage from stand-off distance or use cover.

Helos engage targets while carrying out Strafing runs. This is a basic military tactic.

iblawi:


Patches Rooilvalk haven't seen combat yet. That is 1 of the things affecting it. The same problem the Z10 have.
Rooilvalk and Z10 are good hardwares but non have been used in real combat yet. (not UN peacekeeping).

Mi28 and Ka52 were used in Syria recently and they are coming from the same country that made Mi24/35 which is the most widely used attack helicopter today. This alone gives many people confidence because hind have proved a lot to those that own them. We both know this can not be said about Rooilvalk and Z10. Although, the story of Z10 would soon change when Pakistan order for them and The Z9 is already in use in some countries like Cameroon, Ghana and others and I believe they are performing well.

Rooivalk has had multiple combat sorties in DRC congo - newsflash: operational use of weapons in a hostile environment is combat.

As for the Hind, while i agree that it is good for its era, most used =/= good.

Hind has been outdated since the AH-1 arrived on the scene