Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. - Christianity Etc (4) - Nairaland
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| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by PastorAIO: 6:42pm On Nov 18, 2012 |
I think the part about preconceived doctrines is closer to the point. However I don't think it is always a matter of humility that stops people from changing their opinions. I find that there is an inbuilt inertia in all systems including our cognitive systems that makes it hard for us to shed ideas. IF you think about it. mOst changes of ideas occurs only through extreme catastrophe. The old way has to be seen to simply not work anymore and infact to be the cause of much suffering before a few, not all, only a few peeps with adjust their thinking for survival. It's taken me a while to warm to you, Buzugee, but I have. Even though I think we have quite different understandings of religion. 1 Like |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Nobody: 7:05pm On Nov 18, 2012 |
Pastor AIO: I think the part about preconceived doctrines is closer to the point.YEAH I HAVE THAT EFFECT ON PEOPLE.  THEY THINK I AM BRASH AND AS SUCH I AM ALWAYS CAST OFF AS A NUISANCE. I CANT RELATE WITH THIS THOUGH >>> I find that there is an inbuilt inertia in all systems including our cognitive systems that makes it hard for us to shed ideas. REASON BEING I FIND IT EXTREMELY EASY TO SHED ANYTHING THAT IS WRONG. BUT WHAT HELPS ME IS I HAVE A JOURNAL. IF I GET A NEW IDEA, I WRITE IT DOWN, LOOK AT IT AND THEN UPLOAD IT INTO MY MIND. ITS THAT EASY FOR ME. HOWEVER I HAVE EVERYTHING ON JOURNAL AS BACKUP. SEE WHEN IT COMES TO THE WORD WE HAVE TO BE DUCTILE AND MALLEABLE ENOUGH TO CHIP OFF WRONG THINGS AND ADD ON NEW ONES. SCRIPTURE SAYS YOU HAVE TO BE AS A CHILD IN OTHER TO COME INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD. THATS WHAT THAT MEANS. AS A CHILD YOUR SLATE IS CLEAN. ALL PRE-CONCIEVED IDEAS IS WIPED AWAY AND THEN YOU START AGAIN AS A CHILD WITH ENTHAUSIASM. THATS THE THING ABOUT CHILDREN. THE ENTHAUSIASM TO LEARN AND THE CLEAN SLATE. THATS HOW WE ARE TO APPROACH THE WORD. |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by PastorAIO: 10:08pm On Nov 18, 2012 |
obadiah777: REASON BEING I FIND IT EXTREMELY EASY TO SHED ANYTHING THAT IS WRONG.Me too. As long as something can be demonstrated to me to be wrong I will shed it. People are often surprised at how quickly I concede once I see an argument. But I spent years cultivating this attitude. My mentor was Malcolm X. I remember in the preface to his autobiography they mentioned how he lost a lot of followers after he came back from Mecca cos he began to question his previous beliefs. Yet that integrity that allowed him to press on, and to answer questions with an honest 'i don't know', which is suicide in politics or any form of demagoguery, that stunned and impressed me as a child. Pursuit of the truth no matter what the costs are. Yet this attitude is not natural, at least not to our carnal nature, and it requires determination and cultivation of the right attitude. However what it is that I've liked most about you is the way you can pull out a scripture to back up whatever it is you are saying. That is the same reason that I started to like Joagbaje too. 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Nobody: 1:15pm On Nov 19, 2012 |
Pastor AIO: Me too. As long as something can be demonstrated to me to be wrong I will shed it. People are often surprised at how quickly I concede once I see an argument. But I spent years cultivating this attitude. My mentor was Malcolm X. I remember in the preface to his autobiography they mentioned how he lost a lot of followers after he came back from Mecca cos he began to question his previous beliefs. Yet that integrity that allowed him to press on, and to answer questions with an honest 'i don't know', which is suicide in politics or any form of demagoguery, that stunned and impressed me as a child. Pursuit of the truth no matter what the costs are.WELL YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER A FEW THINGS >> ISAIAH 8 VS 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. WHAT THAT MEANS IS >>> 2 PETER 1 VS 20 the scripture is not of any private interpretation. WHICH MEANS THAT >>> ISAIAH 28 VS 10 For precept must be upon precept SO YOU CANT COME UP WITH YOUR OWN VAIN OPINIONS. THIS IS HOW I WAS TAUGHT BY THE STREET PROPHETS I EMULATED IN AMERICA AND ITS SCRIPTURAL. MALCOLM X WAS A HUGE HERO OF MINE TOO. I REMEMBER BEING IN THAT MALCOLM X ZONE IN MY TEENS AND EARLY TWENTIES. BOUGHT THE BOOK, READ IT ALL. WATCHED THE MOVIE. WATCHED HIS SPEECHES ON YOUTUBE. AS YOU RIGHTLY ALLUDED TO, THE EASE WITH WHICH HE SHED WHAT IS WRONG IS THE SIGN OF A GREAT PERSON. WHICH MAKES YOU A GREAT PERSON TOO. SEE, GREAT PEOPLE DONT NEED TO BE REINFORCED BY THEIR EGOS AND DEFIANCE EVEN WHEN IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THEY ARE WRONG. GREAT PEOPLE ARE INTROSPECTIVELY REINFORCED AND AS SUCH THEIR EGO IS NOT DEPENDENT ON REINFORCING A LIE. IT TAKES A GREAT MAN TO EASILY SHED AND ADMIT WRONG THINGS. ( AND I DONT MEAN 'GREAT' IN THE SENSE OF HOW CARNAL PEOPLE SEE 'GREAT'. GREATNESS IS INTEGRITY. A POOR MAN CAN BE GREAT WHILE A RICH MAN CAN BE NOT GREAT DEPENDING ON THE CARNALITY OF WHO IS JUDGING. SO THE POINT IS, IT TAKES A REAL MAN TO MOULT AND SHED AWAY DEAD INFO. |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Enigma(m): 1:34pm On Nov 19, 2012 |
obadiah777: . . . . SEE, GREAT PEOPLE DONT NEED TO BE REINFORCED BY THEIR EGOS AND DEFIANCE EVEN WHEN IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THEY ARE WRONG. GREAT PEOPLE ARE INTROSPECTIVELY REINFORCED AND AS SUCH THEIR EGO IS NOT DEPENDENT ON REINFORCING A LIE. IT TAKES A GREAT MAN TO EASILY SHED AND ADMIT WRONG THINGS. ( AND I DONT MEAN 'GREAT' IN THE SENSE OF HOW CARNAL PEOPLE SEE 'GREAT'. GREATNESS IS INTEGRITY. A POOR MAN CAN BE GREAT WHILE A RICH MAN CAN BE NOT GREAT DEPENDING ON THE CARNALITY OF WHO IS JUDGING. SO THE POINT IS, IT TAKES A REAL MAN TO MOULT AND SHED AWAY DEAD INFO.You're droppin' some real science here, brah!   1 Like |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Nobody: 1:39pm On Nov 19, 2012 |
Enigma: You're droppin' some real science here, brah!JUST CALL ME THE DROP ZONE 1 Like |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Ubenedictus(op): 1:49pm On Nov 21, 2012 |
Pastor AIO: I was actually developing some alternative interpretation then I saw your post. I couldn't continue any further after that. However I am sure that there are some die-hards that will continue to contest in order to safeguard their own agendas.i took some day off nairaland and coming back i saw this. I see a valid point. |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Ubenedictus(op): 1:51pm On Nov 21, 2012 |
seriallink: @Pastor AIO & Buzugee,nothing in this world that i hate most than an unfounded accusation, please provide proof that during this thread i wrote anything on the above. If u cant shame on you, i gat no apology 4 that. |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Ubenedictus(op): 1:56pm On Nov 21, 2012 |
obadiah777: YEAH I HAVE THAT EFFECT ON PEOPLE.i certainly remember ur list of pharisees and scoffer, hope u have deleted my name from it? I might flog u if u refuse! |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Nobody: 1:58pm On Nov 21, 2012 |
Ubenedictus: i certainly remember ur list of pharisees and scoffer, hope u have deleted my name from it? I might flog u if u refuse! OH YEAH THAT LIST. LET ME GO REVISIT IT LOLZ 1 Like |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Ubenedictus(op): 2:03pm On Nov 21, 2012 |
obadiah777:hahaha, i'll add u to my list of characters |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by PastorAIO: 2:31pm On Nov 21, 2012 |
obadiah777: MALCOLM X WAS A HUGE HERO OF MINE TOO. I REMEMBER BEING IN THAT MALCOLM X ZONE IN MY TEENS AND EARLY TWENTIES. BOUGHT THE BOOK, READ IT ALL. WATCHED THE MOVIE. WATCHED HIS SPEECHES ON YOUTUBE. AS YOU RIGHTLY ALLUDED TO, THE EASE WITH WHICH HE SHED WHAT IS WRONG IS THE SIGN OF A GREAT PERSON. WHICH MAKES YOU A GREAT PERSON TOO. SEE, GREAT PEOPLE DONT NEED TO BE REINFORCED BY THEIR EGOS AND DEFIANCE EVEN WHEN IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THEY ARE WRONG. GREAT PEOPLE ARE INTROSPECTIVELY REINFORCED AND AS SUCH THEIR EGO IS NOT DEPENDENT ON REINFORCING A LIE. IT TAKES A GREAT MAN TO EASILY SHED AND ADMIT WRONG THINGS. ( AND I DONT MEAN 'GREAT' IN THE SENSE OF HOW CARNAL PEOPLE SEE 'GREAT'. GREATNESS IS INTEGRITY. A POOR MAN CAN BE GREAT WHILE A RICH MAN CAN BE NOT GREAT DEPENDING ON THE CARNALITY OF WHO IS JUDGING. SO THE POINT IS, IT TAKES A REAL MAN TO MOULT AND SHED AWAY DEAD INFO.The truth is he didn't shed his previous opinions with ease. He spent months agonising and even trying to think up ways to defend Elijah Mohammed when those pregnant girls came to him. In the end he just couldn't do it anymore. It is not easy to be great. I wouldn't say that I was great but I do ASPIRE to be great. Funny thing about X is that most people think he is great for all the wrong reasons. I said wrong reasons, I should say for Different reasons that me. |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Nobody: 2:34pm On Nov 21, 2012 |
Ubenedictus: hahaha, i'll add u to my list of charactersLOLZ. YEAH DO THAT |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Nobody: 2:38pm On Nov 21, 2012 |
Pastor AIO: The truth is he didn't shed his previous opinions with ease. He spent months agonising and even trying to think up ways to defend Elijah Mohammed when those pregnant girls came to him. In the end he just couldn't do it anymore. It is not easy to be great. I wouldn't say that I was great but I do ASPIRE to be great.THERE IS SUCH A THING AS RELATIVITY. CONSIDERING HIS POSITION AND HOW MANY LIVES HE WOULD BE AFFECTING IF HE HAD A REVISION OF DOCTRINE, I WOULD SAY HE SHED IT EASILY. MANY PEOPLE IN SIMILAR SHOES WILL RATHER CONTINUE THAT LIE TILL THEIR GRAVE. KEEP IN MIND HIS EXPOSE HAD THE POTENTIAL TO THREATEN THE LIVELIHOOD OF THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF BLACK MUSLIMS WHO WERE LIVING COMFORTABLY BECAUSE OF THE NUMEROUS BUSINESSES THEY HAD. SO GOING BY RELATIVITY, I SAY HE SHED IT EASILY. FOR ME I CONSIDER X GREAT BECAUSE OF HIS IMPECCABLE ORATORY SKILLS, HIS UNBENDING DEDICATION TO HIS CAUSE, HOW HE GAVE UP HIS OWN LIFE FOR HIS CAUSE. THOSE 3 REASONS. DOESNT HURT THAT HE LOOKED STATUESQUE AND DIGNIFIED |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Ayomivic(m): 9:39pm On Nov 21, 2012 |
seriallink: What you guys have to understand is that, no one is an expert in breaking down prophecies, especially the ones in the book of Revelation. Just because one of the prophecies literally sounds like the birth of Christ, doesn't necessarily mean it is the birth of Christ! |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Ayomivic(m): 9:59pm On Nov 21, 2012 |
[quote author=seriallink]What you guys have to understand is that, no one is an expert in breaking down prophecies, especially the ones in the book of Revelation. Just because one of the prophecies literally sounds like the birth of Christ, doesn't necessarily mean it is the birth of Christ! The prophecies in Revelation are for the future and haven't been fulfilled yet, so, I don't see any reason why it would be referring to the birth of Christ that has already been fulfilled over 2000 years ago (Even before John was given the revelation). Revelation 1:19-20 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. So, lets not jump to conclusion that Christ is the MAN-CHILD being referred to in Revelation 12; we need to use scripture to interpret scripture. I have read different interpretations of that Chapter. I'll post some of the links tomorrow so you guys can go through and compare. Interpreting prophecies is not an easy job. No body be BOSS for this one, I beg una! No rushing! [/quote Reuelation 1,19,20 write the things which thou have seen and the things which are and the which shall be hereafter. You underline hereafter but failed to notice ' which thou have seen' and which are |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by ironscepter: 1:42pm On Jun 08, 2013 |
The man child of Revelation 12 is the overcomer of Rev. 2:26-29 and elsewhere in the letters to the 7 churches. He is also the wise and faithful servant of Mathew 24:45-47. He is the greater one of the 2 witnesses of Rev.11, Daniel 12:5 and of the swift messagers from Kenya (Isaiah 18) .He is also one to sit at the right side of Christ(Mathew 20:20-23). He could also be the one like a son of man of Daniel 7:13-14. Jesus will give Him the morning star and allow him to sit on His throne-Rev.3:21. He will be the prime minister of Jesus during the millennium, AND GOD HAS CONFIRMED ME FOR THAT ROLE 1 Like |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Adzuana: 4:16pm On Jul 09, 2015 |
@ironscepter: I believe you hit the nail on the head. I concur with you. A teaching to align with the train of thought; www.tribulationinstitute.com/tribulationsaints_ch6_the_manchild.htm |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by PastorAIO: 5:14pm On Nov 06, 2015 |
I think the issues discussed in this thread are becoming topical again. What do you think, dolphinheart? |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Anas09: 6:48pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
 @PastorAIOI thought you were a Muslim? |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by PastorAIO: 7:47pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
Anas09:Perhaps I am, though I didn't think so. Why would you think I'm a muslim. |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Ubenedictus(op): 5:50pm On May 19, 2016 |
ironscepter:i'm looking throu old post when i saw this. was dis a joke? |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by otemanuduno: 6:11pm On May 19, 2016 |
Ubenedictus:The name of the child is Apollyon, according to Bellorum 4:16-48 15. When Raphael blew his trumpet, a great darkness fell upon the earth, because the moon stood right between the earth and the sun, such that the moon casts its shadow on the continent of Murmoh for a space of eight hours. 16. Now did Largas fly around in the court, rejoicing for the evil which was done to the earth. And in enthusiasm, he ordered the fifth angel to blow his trumpet. 17. And Eartum, who was in the moon got angry because it should have been dark in the part of the moon where he was. And Earthus who was there with him was scared that the sun would fall into the moon, because it looked like day at evening time. 18. Now did the anger of Eartum get hot. And he said, Earthus, you see that Nymphidis is provoking me. 19. Why did he hold down the movement of the moon such that the sun remained focused on the same side of it for this long? 20. Now is the time for Apollyon's star to be let down into the land of Philargas to take revenge. 21. Did I not see the evil done to all the other continents of the earth, including ours? 22. And Earthus pleaded with Eartum to keep his calm and be patient, but Eartum said, no! is Apollyon not already of age? Did Knoliud not give Apollyon the key of the knowledge to open the pit made by Nymphidis, which he had kept scorpions and locusts and worms in abundance? 23. Now let Apollyon go and fight the homos of Nymphidis himself with the evil creatures. 24. Immediately, Eartum released the star of Apollyon and it fell as soon as Abethethibou, the fifth angel had blown his trumpet. 25. Then Apollyon's star fell into the pit and the shape of the star was the key to open the pit itself, because it fitted into the lock of the great pit itself. 26. Then a great smoke from the pit covered the air. Then everywhere was dark, because the smoke had covered the rays of the sun. 27. And Apollyon commanded the creatures not to hurt the grass of the earth but only those people who had the seal of Nymphidis called Satan, on their foreheads. 28. And they did not kill any of the people in the land of Philargas but only tormented them for some months. 29. Then the homos of the land of Philargas ran about without help. And they sought death but could not find it. 30. Now these are the description of the shapes of the locusts; they were like horses. And they had crowns on their heads. Their heads looked like the faces of male homos. 31. And their hair appeared like the hair of Earthus. They had long teeth and breastplates made of iron, according to the fulfillment of the prophecy of Knoliud that Apollyon shall rule the earth with a rod of iron. This did make Nymphidis make no attempt to fight back and rescue, because he had great fear for iron. 32. Now they flapped their wings and their tails were with terrible stings. 33. Now Nymphidis was angry because of this. Then he commanded the sixth angel to go into the river Euphrates and loose his four sons which he had held captive in the river Euphrates. Raguel sounded his trumpet afterwards. 34. And the first son would do battle for an hour, the second for a day, the third for a month while the fourth would do battle for a year, to destroy one-third of the earth. 35. Then did the angel mobilise a great number of homos who sat on horses. They had fire and sulphur, which was a symbol of the hell fire of Nymphidis. 36. And the heads of the horses were like the head of Faulkin. Then fire and smoke and sulphur issued out of their mouths. 37. And they had tails like the serpent, which was one of the servants of Nymphidis. 38. However, the few homos left on earth refused to serve Nymphidis, but did what they felt right in their eyes. 39. For they said, it is better for us to die and perish than to serve and worship Nymphidis, that wicked son of God, who has intended to establish his belief through violence and force. 40. Then Jasheb, who was partially unconscious in the court of Nymphidis, saw Eartum come down from the moon in anger. For his face was red like the sun. 41. Then he had a book in his hand. Then he put a foot on the sea and the other on the ground. Then he cried angrily and his voice sounded like thunders into Jasheb's ears. 42. Then Jasheb took a scroll to write down the things which Eartum said, but he commanded him not to write it. 43. But he raised up his hands to heaven and swore by Domino Reverad that the earth would cease to exist not long after, because of the great violence committed by Nymphidis. For Eartum wished the earth would cease to exist within the same billinium in which they were. For already they had recorded about three billiniums on earth before. 44. Then Eartum commanded Jasheb to take the book. When Jasheb had taken it and had eaten it, it tasted sweet in his mouth but bitter in his stomach. 45. And Eartum said to Jasheb, this is the same thing I will give to Daniel the righteous one of this world, who shall arise among the homos that is to come. 46. However, before you shall tell this things to the species of the homo-erectus, another homo of Nymphidis, who is a star-gazer, would have declared a false version of it. For he shall see it in my satellite above and shall think that the things are shown to him from the heaven of Nymphidis. Then shall he add more to it and proclaim it in the sanctuaries of Nymphidis. 48. This is the prophecy of my five sense organs when my eyes are open, and not the knowledge of Knoliud. |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Nobody: 2:41am On May 20, 2016 |
Ubenedictus:The coming age.. And the woman is the earth... ".. Isaiah 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once?..." |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Ubenedictus(op): 11:03am On May 20, 2016 |
Muafrika2:so d baby is a nation? |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Nobody: 11:52am On May 20, 2016 |
Ubenedictus:Definitely. And seeing that we are waiting for a very specific nation / or Kingdom upon the earth (of Christ) it should be the nation birthed at a moment of travail (which means it comes at a very unlikely time of distress on the earth) and remains hidden for a while. |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Ubenedictus(op): 5:09pm On May 20, 2016 |
[code][/code] Muafrika2:this nation will rule the world with an iron rod? and the nation is on God throne?[email] Muafrika2:this nation will rule the world with an iron rod? and the nation is on God throne?[/email] Muafrika2:this nation will rule the world with an iron rod? and the nation is on God throne? |
| Re: Revelation 12, Who Is The Child. by Nobody: 6:35pm On May 20, 2016 |
Ubenedictus:You've raised three points: 1. The nation will rule the world This is how the nation takes rule: Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever. (From the powers of darkness) 2. With an iron rod I believe this refers to a strictness that was not before. It's also used to refer to strength as in Daniels interpretation below. Daniel 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. The coming Kingdom Kingdom will be also strong and hard. This scripture, I believe, refers to the same people, also called daughter of Zion: Micah 4:13 | Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion: for I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass: and thou shalt beat in pieces many people: and I will consecrate their gain unto the LORD, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth. Revelation 2: 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 | And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. The scripture above, referring to saints who had overcome The same also refers to Christ, because it shall be a new age of His rule: Revelation 12:5 | And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Revelation 19:15 | And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Am referring to that child to Christ and a nation interchangeably because Christ reign with a people when He takes the Kingdom. Dan 7:22 ... judgment was given to the saints of the most High... 3.The Nation is on God's throne Remember the saints are a nation of priests and Kings. They have inherited the Kingdom. The same people have always been sitted at the right hand of God. God is still King over all even in the new Kingdom. And the Power to rule is His Power. |
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