₦airaland Forum

[quote author=CAPTIVATOR

post=46004401]Many religious groups have made "prophecies"--actually, predictions--of things that would occur, some even giving specific dates. These include Lutherans, Baptists, Anabaptists, Presbyterians, Mormons, Assemblies of God, the Anglican Church, Catholics, and more.

already non of them claimed to be directed by Jehovah nor do they say they are the one true church.if they claim so, they become false

Jehovah's Witnesses are not the only group who have ever made predictions based on their understanding of Bible text that proved to be wrong.

no Jehovah witness are not the only cult they are many. You are like a theif claming he is not the only one who steals

However, many lay more blame on Jehovah's Witnesses then any other However, many lay more blame on Jehovah's Witnesses then any other ligious group due to the fact that they hate us, thinking of us as a unorthodox.

no body hate you

Some argue that Jehovah's Witnesses have gotten too specific, choosing certain dates as the return of Christ.

you never admit to your lies thats the worse

To them, this is what characterizes us as a cult?

not just that, what about those Masonic symbols,what about Taze Russell's involvement in occult too many to list. A bad tree cannot produce good fruits.

However, many lay more blame on Jehovah's Witnesses then any other ,

should they blame others for your owno faults

Martin Luther, Billy Graham, and John Wesley were not false prophets. They did make predictions based on their interpretation of the Bible that turned out to not be true but that does not make them guilty of false prophecy.

says who[right]

They are guilty, though, of making these things seem as if they were without a doubt.

do you now agree that watch tower is guilty of telling lies in the name of Jehovah?


[

Jehovah's Witnesses, on the other hand have always told people that their interpretations of events could be wrong.

why make the predictions even when Jesus warned you not to.

"We are not prophesying; we are merely giving our surmises . . . We do not even aver that there is no mistake in our interpretation of prophecy and our calculations of chronology. We have merely laid these before you, leaving it for each to exercise his own faith or doubt in respect to them."

only a false prophet speak presumtiously, which Jehovah spoke against through his servant moses
-

Regarding 1914: Zion's Watch Tower, January 1, 1908, page 4110

"The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year."
-Regarding 1925: The Watch Tower, January 1, 1925, page 3

your organisation claim to know more than the master. Even Jesus when he was she's about his coming he said he did not know not even the angels knew. How come your organisation now know more than Jesus. Regarding what Jesus said a servant cannot be greater than his master but your organisation has taken the role of God to be telling people when Jesus will come



"'

What about the year 1975? What is it going to mean, dear friends?' asked Brother Franz. 'Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could! All things are possible with God. Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could. Does it mean that the attack of Gog of Magog is going to be made on Jehovah’s witnesses to wipe them out, then Gog himself will be put out of action? It could. But we are not saying.All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. [u] And don’t any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975.'"
-The Watchtower, 15 October 1966, page 631

Acts1:7 And he said unto them, it is not for you to know the times or the seasons which the Father hath put in his own power

solite3:
already non of them claimed to be directed by Jehovah nor do they say they are the one true church.if they claim so, they become falseno Jehovah witness are not the only cult they are many. You are like a theif claming he is not the only one who steals no body hate you
you never admit to your lies thats the worse not just that, what about those Masonic symbols,what about Taze Russell's involvement in occult too many to list. A bad tree cannot produce good fruits. should they blame others for your owno faults
[size=27] says who[right]do you now agree that watch tower is guilty of telling lies in the name of Jehovah?


[why make the predictions even when Jesus warned you not to.
only a false prophet speak presumtiously, which Jehovah spoke against through his servant moses
-your organisation claim to know more than the master. Even Jesus when he was asked about his coming said he don't know even the angels don't know. How come your organisation now know more than Jesus. Regarding what Jesus said a servant cannot be greater than her master but your organisation has taken the role of God to be telling people when Jesus will come




"' Acts1:7 And he said unto them, it is not for you to know the times or the seasons which the Father hath put in his own power

comprehension is key

" All things are possible with God. But we are not saying . And don’t any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975.'"
-The Watchtower, 15 October 1966, page 631

Trust me, u guys are kids ... None of u can debate the bible with a Jehovah Witness, cos witnesses are trained by Jehovah God himself.

the worst u can do is dig up events that happen before u are formed in the womb, at a period clearly different from now. even with thag Jehovahs Witnesses are progressing.

let me introduce you to the Live Jw Broadcasting channel TV.Jw.org and the best website ever Jw.org , accessible in over 500 languages of the world.

CAPTIVATOR:
and you think shouting Jesus is God is what it means to know Christ , ur case is pathetic I tell you.

Let him be deceiving himself.

[quote author=CAPTIVATOR post=46013917]

thats the point of Daniel 12:4 . my words are not in quote remember ?

even if they were not in quote but it is misleading

why am I even telling you, I sud have allow you run your mouth first.

what are you saying

No, the Scripture is truth ! john 17:17, but my understanding of the truth can be adjusted if I see its not fully biblical.

scripture is not for private interpretation

you can as well say the apostles are not directed by God since their understanding of the truth was that Gods kingdom is only for isreal ?

they were asking Jesus not making false statement

Gentleman, I personally studied those three doctrines I told u about and am telling you they are scripturally FALSE

really?

[quote author=CAPTIVATOR post=46015377]

about christmas.. u dont make any sound point.

how can it be sound before

and for your information, back then... I firmly belive Christmas is from God , aftrall Dec 25 is Jesus date of birth, so u have no point. yet Am strongly convinced Only A FOOL WILL USE MY PAST TO JUDGE MY PRESENT.

@ bold those were your own belief because you were just a man except your organisation is just controlled by men need not Jeshovah

Christian witnesses of Most High Jehovah (Isa 43:10) - are also witnesses of Jesus , every message of Jesus comes from Jehovah is Father .

yes Christians witness for Jehovah because Jesus is Jehovah God

you can create a thread about trinity, hellfire or immortal soul and invite me , lets see if they are scriptural or religious myths.

you have already been trashed concerning trinity[ /

CAPTIVATOR:
comprehension is key

" All things are possible with God. But we are not saying . And don’t any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975.'"
-The Watchtower, 15 October 1966, page 631

it is only Satan that speak like that. Jesus has already warned Christians not to even try to predict times that God has put in his own power. He also said that the Kingdom of God comes not with observation.

solite3:
[/quote]even if they were not in quote but it is misleading

what are you saying

scripture is not for private interpretation

sorry bro, comprehension is still your problem

truth doesnt change, but a persons understanding of truth can change . for example, there is a certain guy on this forum ( name withheld) who formerly believes in once saved,always saved. but later he changed his understanding on that subject. thats my point. he is humble enough to adjust. which is Commendable.

they were asking Jesus not making false statement

out of the abundance of the heart , the mouth speaks . they meant isreal

really?

Yes, u can create a thread on any of the aforementioned doctrine and invite me. lets examine them Scripturally

[quote author=CAPTIVATOR post=46016921]

Trust me, u guys are kids ... None of u can debate the bible with a Jehovah Witness, cos witnesses are trained by Jehovah God himself.

Debate is not a sign of true christians,trained by God himself? You are hilarious

the worst u can do is dig up events that happen before u are formed in the womb, at a period clearly different from now. even with thag Jehovahs Witnesses are progressing.

the foundation God stands sure, can you say of yours

[

s]let me introduce you to the Live Jw Broadcasting channel TV.Jw.org and the best website ever Jw.org , accessible in over 500 languages of the world.[/s]

non of these things matters to God

[quote author=solite3 post=46017721][/quote]trashed concerning trinity.. how exactly ? wait , are u not the same man vomitting during ur chats with barrister about the most High Jehovah.


I read everything, u are a wounded lion. dolphinheart asks if u admit Jesus have a God , u cant answer , answering that question alone always send shivers into ur spine

shior

CAPTIVATOR:
even if they were not in quote but it is misleading

what are you saying

scripture is not for private interpretation




sorry bro, comprehension is still your problem

truth doesnt change, but a persons understanding of truth can change . for example, there is a certain guy on this forum ( name withheld) who formerly believes in once saved,always saved. but later he changed his understanding on that subject. thats my point. he is humble enough to adjust. which is Commendable.



they were asking Jesus not making false statement



out of the abundance of the heart , the mouth speaks . they meant isreal



really?



Yes, u can create a thread on any of the aforementioned doctrine and invite me. lets examine them Scripturally

you are the one who has comprehension problem, a person's personal belief is different from the belief of an organisation which claimed to be directed by Jehovah. You got that?

[quote author=solite3 post=46018040][/quote]nothing is wrong with debate except u fear ur belives been crushed. " So Paul and Barnabas engaged these men in sharp debate " Act 15:2
tell me paul and Barnabas are not Christian ?

solite3:
you are the one who has comprehension problem, a person's personal belief is different from the belief of an organisation which claimed to be directed by Jehovah. You got that?

haba! am surprised u still find it hard to comprehend.

I belief my Christmas beliefs is from God , then. and am sure this same guy i cite as an example also belief once saved always saved is the true teaching from God.

can u see ? but it takes a humble and Spirit directed heart to change his understanding if he discovers its not fully scriptural

CAPTIVATOR:
haba! am surprised u still find it hard to comprehend.

I belief my Christmas beliefs is from God , then. and am sure this same guy i cite as an example also belief once saved always saved is the true teaching from God.

can u see ? but it takes a humble and Spirit directed heart to change his understanding if he discovers its not fully scriptural

can you imagine yourself. go and hide in shame. a proud liar

[quote author=solite3 post=45839881]Isaiah 42:12 English standard version
12. I made the earth and created man on it, it was my hands that stretched out heavens, and I commanded their host.
]Isaiah 45:12. Amplified Bible
12. I made the earth and created man upon it.
My hands stretched out the heavens
And I commanded all their host.


Isaiah 44:24. New world translation (NWT)
This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser and the former of you from the belly.
I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me?
This verse alone completely destroys Watchtowers theology because it obliterates any notion that Jehovah used a junior partner in the act of creation. The rhetorical question" who was with me?" is "No one". This is what sets Jehovah apart

Isaiah 45:12. NWT
"I myself [ Jehovah] [/b]have made the earth and have created even man upon it. I, my own hands have stretched out the heavens, and all the army I have commanded"
Again, Jehovah emphasizes "I myself" used " my own hands". Jehovah was the lone craftsman.

Isaiah 48:13, NWT "Moreover, [b]My own hand laid the foundation of the earth, and my own right hand extended out the heavens. I am calling to them, that they may keep standing together.
This verse not only indicates that Jehovah's " Own hand" created heaven and earth, but that Jehovah is sustaining his creation as well.
When one examines New Testament verse regarding Jesus, one can see that Jesus is also credited as creator and sustainer. For example

John 1:3 NWT " All things came into existence
[color=#770077]through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence"

Col 1:16-17 NWT " ....because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordship or government or authorities. All[ other] things and by means of him all [ other] things were made to exist.[/color]
Heb 1:2. NWT " God who long ago spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, has at these end of days spoken by means of a son whom he had appointed heir of all things, through whom he made the systems of things. He is the reflection of [ his] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power.

AS TRINITARIANS, WE DON' T DENY THAT THE FATHER MADE THE WORLD THROUGH THE SON. BUT WITH SCRIPTURE, WE AFFIRM THAT ONLY JEHOVAH CREATED.
THEREFORE, THE FATHER AND THE SON ARE BOTH JEHOVAH.


The Jw ought to give serious reflection as to what he called Jesus " THE EXACT REPRESENTATION OF [JEHOVAH'S] BEING.

Still load...ing
Dolphinsheart
Goodnews
Barrister
Jozzy
An any witness should respond to these post failure to do so will go a long way to show your bible twisting nature

Captivator oya do u c Trinitarians are right.

WITH THIS RESPONSE OF YOURS BELOW, READERS CAN NOW SEE YOU DID NOT DO ANY RESEARCH ON REVELATION 1:11, AND YOU COULD NOT DEFEND THE ATTEMPT AT DISCREDITING THE OLDER MANUSCRIPTS SO AS TO MAKE THE TEXTUS RECEPTUS RENDERING OF THAT ACCEPTABLE
like I said earlier, discrediting other sources does not make your source credible, applying the same method for Textus Receptus will totally unqualify it!

solite3:
no you prove to me it was added, you were the one who said Alpha and Omega was added to revelation 1:11 failure to do this will to expose you as a liar just like watch tower is been exposed for liars that they are, for me I trust God's word.

I've shown you proof several times, I told you that the words " Alpha and and omega" cannot be found in the oldest and most reliable manuscripts that contain rev 1:11.
therefore, those words where added later. to surpport my views, no evidence has yet been produced by you to surr port the source of those words in the critical texts.

proofs are contained in this manuscripts
www.codex-sinaiticus.net/en/manuscript.aspx?book=59&chapter=1&lid=en&side=r&zoomSlider=0

Codex Sinaiticus....... is one of the four great uncial codices , an ancient, handwritten copy of the Greek Bible. The codex is a celebrated historical treasure.
The codex is an Alexandrian text-type manuscript written in the 4th century in uncial letters on parchment . Current scholarship considers the Codex Sinaiticus to be one of the best Greek texts of the New Testament , along with that of the Codex Vaticanus......

The Codex Sinaiticus came to the attention of scholars in the 19th century at Saint Catherine's Monastery in the Sinai Peninsula, with further material discovered in the 20th and 21st centuries. Although parts of the Codex are scattered across four libraries around the world, most of the manuscript is today vested in the British Library London, where it is on public display. Since its discovery, study of the Codex Sinaiticus has proven to be extremely useful to scholars for critical studies of biblical text.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Sinaiticus

it a well known facts that those words where not present in the other oldest manuscripts that contained rev 1:11.
We can also take is as fact that since no evidence has yet been bought forward for the existence of Alpha and omega in that particular verse yet, and that all other manuscripts which had that verse do NOT have those words recorded there, I take it that the words "Alpha and omega" where deliberate later additions to the book of Revelation, and the Textus Receptus added it when there was no or little manuscripts available to guide him.
large number of the critical texts available today, which where authored when better and more reliable manuscripts became available, do not have such words recorded in that verse.
conclusion: As the text containing Alpha and Omega in Revelation 1:11 has no uncial support or any manuscripts prior to the ninth century it clearly lacks authority and that is why it is not included in most recent translations!

There are only three places in the entire Bible where the title "Alpha and Omega" is used: Rev. 1:8 ; Rev. 21:6 ;Rev. 22:13. "Alpha and Omega" as found at Rev. 1:11 in the KJV and NKJV is recognized as spurious by most modern Bible scholars:
"Virtually all modern translations do not include in Rev 1:11 the following words that are in the KJV version of that verse:
"Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:and,
"This wording at the beginning of the KJV's version of Rev. 1:11 is not found in virtually any ancient texts, nor is it mentioned, even as a footnote, in any modern translation or in Bruce Metzger's definitive A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, Second Edition, New York: United Bible Societies, 1994"

Also add were you explained Jesus has same nature as God.I can't believe you said that
Dolphins heart: Jesus has same nature as God
Solite:Then Jesus is God
Dolphinsheart: Solite you are lying that's not what I meant
Solite:what do you mean?
dolphins heart: I meant Jesus has same nature with God
Solite: wat do you even mean by the word nature, define it
dolphins heart
Solite

I responded to this in the post in which that issue is being discussed, pls go back there and respond, dnt act like you did not see it .

solite3:
can you imagine yourself. go and hiden in shame. a proud liar

what is he saying ?

solite3:
dolphineheart u are hilarious, u said Jesus has the same nature with God.what is the nature of God?

captivator can you answer this question

solite3:
And you sheepishly follow not minding if they are wrong,

pls state just one of the things you think was thought then and I follow now.
add evidence to when it was thought then and my beliefs now!

You just like to make assertions without facts all the time!

why do you attack people who have held on to the unchangeable teachings of Christ but follow man made doctrine that changes like chameleon.

it remains for you to prove that they are unchangeable teachings of christ, you can do that by answering the questions asked in my post to you that you abandoned!

The watch tower has a very bad history,can you trust such? Remember what Jesus told you "A bad tree cannot bring forth a good fruit" if the tree ( watch tower ) was not bad it would not have produce a corrupt fruit ( history of lies )shalom

sir can you tell us about the history of your church or organization?

zodiakzax:
go and make a research into it. Your founder believed in things that the WTS has changed over the years. If you want to know the truth then start questioning your very cult and their doctrines. John 20:28, Thomas here called Jesus my Lord and my God. Your blasphemous bible even translated it as such. Turn to God bfr it's too late for you.

thank you sir

[quote author=solite3 post=46020752][/quote]jessicha , iron Lady is enough for u. go back and read her posts on this verses

johnw74:
oh I am very sure, and so are you

Lie Lie dolphinheart

and yet you could not state categorically how the conversation went!, it went something like! imagine!

brocab:
For me I believe you, but If you can find it, show it, too shut him up. Lets see dolphinheart once more in Action, lying to the public.

you have your questions, statements and lies still pending, you have refused to respond to them, yet you want to shut someone else up on another person's matter .

johnw74:
Here it is:

Here is the first post in the thread https://www.nairaland.com/3051431/jesus-christ-god#44743007

As you can see the thread is titled "Jesus Christ is God"
and as you can see the opening post is an Exegesis of John 1:1

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The thread is about John 1:1, the Word being God, which I also said in post two
the OP and myself are agreeing with John 1:1 that God and the Word are both God, two persons one God,
it's always been my belief.

dolphinheart said in post four "your God is two persons in one!, a two headed God"
and that is referring to my God, "God and the Word" John 1:1

EVERY ONE, PLS NOTICE THAT HE COULD NOT POST OR QUOTE MY FULL POST

brocab, pls comment, since you are eager to shut me up.

FOR STATERS TO THOSE READ ING THIS POST, BELOW IS MY FIRST POST ON THAT THREAD, UP TILL THIS MOMENT ON THAT THREAD. HE COULD NOT QUOTE AND EXPLAIN THE SCRIPTURES IN THAT FIRST POST, NOR COULD HE PROOF THE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS WRONG.

my post:
[b]Is the son the same person as the father ? no

is the son equal to the father? no, "the father is greater than i" the son says

did the son ever claim to be God almighty, God of isreal, the most high God? ? no, he only claimed to be the Son of God!

does the son sit on the same throne and have same authority as the father? no he sits at the right hand of God .

was the son given commands? yes, the almighty God cannot be given commands

does the son have a god (someone he worships ) ? yes, " I ascend to my Father... and to my God " he says.

does the son do things on his own? no , he does what the father tells him to do.

does the son show subjection to the father? absolutely yes

does the son have a beginning ? yes
does the father have? no

does the Scriptures seperate the person of God from the person of Jesus ? yes, all the time

has jesus described God? yes , he called him the father, " the only true god"

has God described jesus? yes , he called him " my son, in whom I'm well pleased"

is jesus subjected to God? yes

can you be with someone and be that same person? no

it has been established that God and Jesus are two different persons, there if you make jesus to be that same God, then your God is two persons in one!, a two headed God!.
you also thus claim that Jesus and God are equal, something the scriptures never mentioned nor surpport.

for those who seek life, listen to this words

[b]Joh 3:16“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

Joh 6:40For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”

Joh 20:31But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.

Eph 1:3Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in union with Christ,

1Ti 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,

1Co 8:5For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”
1Co 8:6there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

Eph 4:6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all[/b]

These are the scriptures in which those who believe in Jesus and the father being the same God would not want to discuss with you , they prefer that the scriptures contradict itself so as to be able to hold on to their false beliefs.

The scriptures explains itself , after reading about the relationship between God and Jesus, it is left for us to now decide if the word is the same God it was with, or if he was a god who was with a much superior God, the almighty.

heb 1:9You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”[/b]

After his refusal to explain those scriptures I told him:
@ johnw74 , the above are absolute truths, that's why you can't refute any of them. you want to post about your doctrines, those scriptures I posted show's your doctrines are false!. that's y you can never ever explain those scriptures.

DID YOU NOTICE WHERE I TOLD HIM HIS DOCTRINES ARE FALSE! THE DOCTRINES ABOUT WHO GOD IS ?
I DID NOT STOP THEIR , I SHOW ED HIM MORE SCRIPTURES HE COULD NOT EXPLAIN!

the above will continue to stand as the truth, and surporters of false doctrine will continue to run away from it!

Re 1:1A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John,

Re 1:5and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.” To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood—
yes
Re 1:6and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

King James Version
Joh 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Jesus has told us countless of times who my God is, he prayed to that God, thought me how to pray to that God, told us about his relationship with that God who exalted him above his companions.
I will not worship a man made God, a two or three headed God, for Jesus has told me , the father is the only true god!

Joh 17:1Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you,
Joh 17:2just as you have given him authority over all flesh, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given to him.
Joh 17:3This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

one should read John chapter 17, it tells you more about the relationship between jesus and God.
[/b]

johnw74:
When false jw's lies are exposed they then start calling you liar
and I expose plenty of their lies.

Just look at dolphinhearts attempts to deny having said "your god is a two headed god" concerning God and the Word,
he knows as clearely as I do that he said it, but Lie Lie dolphinheart twists away so as not having to truth up.

And barristter who quoted my post of bible verses and then replied Lie Lie John to the post,
afterwards he denied calling the Bible verses lies,
duh why would he post the quote if he just wanted to say Lie Lie John to me, he has done that plenty of times before, but Lie Lie barristter loves to lie

And Lie Lie captivator jumping in to support his fellow false jw's in their lies, and calling out Liar himself as the false jw accusers love to do.



Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.



more truth on the sect that is called jehovahs' witnesses at these sites:

http://jwfacts.com/

https://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/jehovahs-witnesses-answered.htm

READERS SHOULD PLS NOTE THAT HE HAS ADJUSTED THE ALLEGATIONS!
what he stated I said before is different from what he stated I said now!

dolphinheart:
sir can you tell us about the history of your church or organization?

gud question, solite3 ur answer pls

dolphinheart:
READERS SHOULD PLS NOTE THAT HE HAS ADJUSTED THE ALLEGATIONS!
what he stated I said before is different from what he stated I said now!

lol, forget that guy . do u notice he has changed his status quo from " God and the Word are one God " TO " God and the Word are God " . since he realize he couldn't prove his former statement biblically.

solite3:
captivator can you answer this question

" God is a spirit "

dolphinheart:
WITH THIS RESPONSE OF YOURS BELOW, READERS CAN NOW SEE YOU DID NOT DO ANY RESEARCH ON REVELATION 1:11, AND YOU COULD NOT DEFEND THE ATTEMPT AT DISCREDITING THE OLDER MANUSCRIPTS SO AS TO MAKE THE TEXTUS RECEPTUS RENDERING OF THAT ACCEPTABLE
like I said earlier, discrediting other sources does not make your source credible, applying the same method for Textus Receptus will totally unqualify it!


I've shown you proof several times, I told you that the words " Alpha and and omega" cannot be found in the oldest and most reliable manuscripts that contain rev 1:11.
therefore, those words where added later. to surpport my views, no evidence has yet been produced by you to surr port the source of those words in the critical texts.

proofs are contained in this manuscripts
www.codex-sinaiticus.net/en/manuscript.aspx?book=59&chapter=1&lid=en&side=r&zoomSlider=0

Codex Sinaiticus....... is one of the four great uncial codices , an ancient, handwritten copy of the Greek Bible. The codex is a celebrated historical treasure.
The codex is an Alexandrian text-type manuscript written in the 4th century in uncial letters on parchment . Current scholarship considers the Codex Sinaiticus to be one of the best Greek texts of the New Testament , along with that of the Codex Vaticanus......

The Codex Sinaiticus came to the attention of scholars in the 19th century at Saint Catherine's Monastery in the Sinai Peninsula, with further material discovered in the 20th and 21st centuries. Although parts of the Codex are scattered across four libraries around the world, most of the manuscript is today vested in the British Library London, where it is on public display. Since its discovery, study of the Codex Sinaiticus has proven to be extremely useful to scholars for critical studies of biblical text.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Sinaiticus

it a well known facts that those words where not present in the other oldest manuscripts that contained rev 1:11.
We can also take is as fact that since no evidence has yet been bought forward for the existence of Alpha and omega in that particular verse yet, and that all other manuscripts which had that verse do NOT have those words recorded there, I take it that the words "Alpha and omega" where deliberate later additions to the book of Revelation, and the Textus Receptus added it when there was no or little manuscripts available to guide him.
large number of the critical texts available today, which where authored when better and more reliable manuscripts became available, do not have such words recorded in that verse.
conclusion: As the text containing Alpha and Omega in Revelation 1:11 has no uncial support or any manuscripts prior to the ninth century it clearly lacks authority and that is why it is not included in most recent translations!

There are only three places in the entire Bible where the title "Alpha and Omega" is used: Rev. 1:8 ; Rev. 21:6 ;Rev. 22:13. "Alpha and Omega" as found at Rev. 1:11 in the KJV and NKJV is recognized as spurious by most modern Bible scholars:
"Virtually all modern translations do not include in Rev 1:11 the following words that are in the KJV version of that verse:
"Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:and,
"This wording at the beginning of the KJV's version of Rev. 1:11 is not found in virtually any ancient texts, nor is it mentioned, even as a footnote, in any modern translation or in Bruce Metzger's definitive A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, Second Edition, New York: United Bible Societies, 1994"




I responded to this in the post in which that issue is being discussed, pls go back there and respond, dnt act like you did not see it .

dolphinsheart this matter is still been debated by scholars I am surprised the way swallow everything that seems to go against Trinity teaching even if they were just alligations. For your information about 95% of all Greek manuscripts agree with the KJV like I told you earlier, I told the book of revelations is a subject of debate by scholars. That Alpha and Omega was added to revelation 1:11kjv is still debatable those who said that it was added are only saying that because it was not found in some of the oldest manuscripts today. but if you know the history of the book revelation.you won't bank on those older manuscripts to draw conclusions. For now those are mere alligations

[quote author=dolphinheart post=46021324]

pls state just one of the things you think was thought then and I follow now.
add evidence to when it was thought then and my beliefs now!

don't you believe that Jesus secretly came in 1914

You just like to make assertions without facts all the time!

history is not assertion dolphins

it remains for you to prove that they are unchangeable teachings of christ, you can do that by answering the questions asked in my post to you that you abandoned!

sir can you tell us about the history of your church or organization?

read acts chapter 2

CAPTIVATOR:
jessicha , iron Lady is enough for u. go back and read her posts on this verses

TRINITARIANS have further been vindicated