CAPTIVATOR:


" God is a spirit "

CAPTIVATOR:


nothing is wrong with debate except u fear ur belives been crushed.
"
So Paul and Barnabas engaged these men in sharp debate " Act 15:2

tell me paul and Barnabas are not Christian ?

johnw74:


Here it is:

Here is the first post in the thread https://www.nairaland.com/3051431/jesus-christ-god#44743007

As you can see the thread is titled "Jesus Christ is God"
and as you can see the opening post is an Exegesis of John 1:1

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The thread is about John 1:1, the Word being God, which I also said in post two
the OP and myself are agreeing with John 1:1 that God and the Word are both God, two persons one God,
it's always been my belief.

dolphinheart said in post four "your God is two persons in one!, a two headed God"
and that is referring to my God, "God and the Word" John 1:1

dolphinheart:


EVERY ONE, PLS NOTICE THAT HE COULD NOT POST OR QUOTE MY FULL POST

brocab, pls comment, since you are eager to shut me up.

FOR STATERS TO THOSE READ ING THIS POST, BELOW IS MY FIRST POST ON THAT THREAD, UP TILL THIS MOMENT ON THAT THREAD. HE COULD NOT QUOTE AND EXPLAIN THE SCRIPTURES IN THAT FIRST POST, NOR COULD HE PROOF THE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS WRONG.

my post:
[b]Is the son the same person as the father ? no

is the son equal to the father? no, "the father is greater than i" the son says

did the son ever claim to be God almighty, God of isreal, the most high God? ? no, he only claimed to be the Son of God!

does the son sit on the same throne and have same authority as the father? no he sits at the right hand of God .

was the son given commands? yes, the almighty God cannot be given commands

does the son have a god (someone he worships ) ? yes, " I ascend to my Father... and to my God " he says.

does the son do things on his own? no , he does what the father tells him to do.

does the son show subjection to the father? absolutely yes

does the son have a beginning ? yes
does the father have? no

does the Scriptures seperate the person of God from the person of Jesus ? yes, all the time

has jesus described God? yes , he called him the father, " the only true god"

has God described jesus? yes , he called him " my son, in whom I'm well pleased"

is jesus subjected to God? yes

can you be with someone and be that same person? no

it has been established that God and Jesus are two different persons, there if you make jesus to be that same God, then your God is two persons in one!, a two headed God!.
you also thus claim that Jesus and God are equal, something the scriptures never mentioned nor surpport.

for those who seek life, listen to this words

[b]Joh 3:16“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

Joh 6:40For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”

Joh 20:31But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.

Eph 1:3Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in union with Christ,

1Ti 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,

1Co 8:5For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”
1Co 8:6there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

Eph 4:6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all[/b]

These are the scriptures in which those who believe in Jesus and the father being the same God would not want to discuss with you , they prefer that the scriptures contradict itself so as to be able to hold on to their false beliefs.

The scriptures explains itself , after reading about the relationship between God and Jesus, it is left for us to now decide if the word is the same God it was with, or if he was a god who was with a much superior God, the almighty.

heb 1:9You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”[/b]

After his refusal to explain those scriptures I told him:
@ johnw74 , the above are absolute truths, that's why you can't refute any of them. you want to post about your doctrines, those scriptures I posted show's your doctrines are false!. that's y you can never ever explain those scriptures.

DID YOU NOTICE WHERE I TOLD HIM HIS DOCTRINES ARE FALSE! THE DOCTRINES ABOUT WHO GOD IS ?
I DID NOT STOP THEIR , I SHOW ED HIM MORE SCRIPTURES HE COULD NOT EXPLAIN!

the above will continue to stand as the truth, and surporters of false doctrine will continue to run away from it!

Re 1:1A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John,

Re 1:5and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.” To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood—
yes
Re 1:6and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

King James Version
Joh 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Jesus has told us countless of times who my God is, he prayed to that God, thought me how to pray to that God, told us about his relationship with that God who exalted him above his companions.
I will not worship a man made God, a two or three headed God, for Jesus has told me , the father is the only true god!

Joh 17:1Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you,
Joh 17:2just as you have given him authority over all flesh, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given to him.
Joh 17:3This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

one should read John chapter 17, it tells you more about the relationship between jesus and God.
[/b]

CAPTIVATOR:


lol, forget that guy . do u notice he has changed his status quo from " God and the Word are one God " TO " God and the Word are God " . since he realize he couldn't prove his former statement biblically.

dolphinheart:


READERS SHOULD PLS NOTE THAT HE HAS ADJUSTED THE ALLEGATIONS!
what he stated I said before is different from what he stated I said now!

dolphinheart:


if you make jesus to be that same God, then your God is two persons in one!, a two headed God!.

brocab:
How good are you Johnw74 and lets watch dolphinheart lie against this one.

johnw74:



ummm, the subject is did dolphinheart call God and the Word a two headed god,

I showed that he did

I said he would twist and lie




Dolphinheart on God and the Word being God:





Lie Lie dolphinheart

CAPTIVATOR:


and you think shouting Jesus is God is what it means to know Christ , ur case is pathetic I tell you.

goodnews201668:



1 Corinthians 15:24-28New International Version (NIV)

24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[a] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, [/b]it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.[b]

28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

johnw74:


Yeah he did lie and twist all over the place , captivator was happy to support him in his lies,
they are truly satans disciples as per John 8:44

brocab:
JW's are all the same, without them having the spirit of God, what more can I say? They argue over words they don't even understand, their own blindness allows them to only see what isn't there.
I have had arguments with dolphinheart myself over scriptures, his own blindness won't allow him to go any further with the word of God.
JW's can't see the scriptures the way the Spirit of God shows us.
Dolphinheart is like a broken record he will find every verses he could find, that he believes it sounds-he doesn't understand what the Lord shows us.
He is actually turning the word of God up side down, every verse we have given him, he finds another that sounds sightly different and sits on it, calling us lairs because we have given to him 'what God had given to us.
Under false pro-tenses, he is actually calling the word a lie. If he knew the word of God as he makes himself out he does, then his rotten fruit wouldn't stand out in the open so much as it does now.

These JW's haven't a clue who's speaking the truth, half of them wouldn't even believe dolphinheart, if you look at their fruit, most of them are trying to take scriptures from the KJV rather then take scriptures from their own NWT bible. The reason to that is" they don't believe in their own bible, because they have scriptures written in their, that proves their Jehovah God is actually Jesus.

johnw74:


The more that false jw lies are exposed, the more they call out "LIAR"

johnw74:


You have to understand that they are one God, God is one,
and you have to understand that they are two persons,concerning John 1:1
I won't say more on the matter than that, with the disbelievers that frequent this place,
don't give your pearls to the dogs etc.
also others explain things much better than I.

theres plenty of good explanations given with scripture backing if you want to read them

here is one: https://carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/john-11-word-was-god

brocab, you will like this, a good read:

CAPTIVATOR:


lol, forget that guy . do u notice he has changed his status quo from " God and the Word are one God " TO " God and the Word are God " . since he realize he couldn't prove his former statement biblically.

solite3:
dolphinsheart this matter is still been debated by scholars I am surprised the way swallow everything that seems to go against Trinity teaching even if they were just alligations. For your information about 95% of all Greek manuscripts agree with the KJV like I told you earlier, I told the book of revelations is a subject of debate by scholars. That Alpha and Omega was added to revelation 1:11kjv is still debatable those who said that it was added are only saying that because it was not found in some of the oldest manuscripts today. but if you know the history of the book revelation.you won't bank on those older manuscripts to draw conclusions. For now those are mere alligations

brocab:
There is no excuse you said it. Maybe you should watch what you say on this page. Someone had returned to you, what you do to others.
Mr self righteousness dolphinheart himself.

johnw74:



ummm, the subject is did dolphinheart call God and the Word a two headed god,

I showed that he did

I said he would twist and lie




Dolphinheart on God and the Word being God:





Lie Lie dolphinheart

johnw74:


You have to understand that they are one God, God is one,
and you have to understand that they are two persons,concerning John 1:1
I won't say more on the matter than that, with the disbelievers that frequent this place,
don't give your pearls to the dogs etc.
also others explain things much better than I.

theres plenty of good explanations given with scripture backing if you want to read them

here is one: https://carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/john-11-word-was-god

brocab, you will like this, a good read:

dolphinheart:


pls share your info with us. pls tell us how the Textus Receptus came to have the words " Alpha and omega in verse 11 of Revelation chapter 1.

fact 1: the oldest available manuscripts that contain rev 1:11 do not have the words " Alpha and omega" in that verse!

fact: 2: you have refused to tell us how the words came into the Textus Receptus

factc3: I've shown you several scholars who rejected the addition of those words, with reasons postulated about their views on that verse, you can see that they did not use the whole book of Revelation as defence, they focused only on the verse under discussion.

fact 4: you have not been able to show any scholar that supports the inclusion of those words in that verse.

brocab:
Lets hear what the JW's have to say about this verse.
This must be one of the most favourable scriptures in the bible, One short passage that claims Jesus being in the form of God.
{Philippians 2:5-7} kJV "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, who being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taken the form of a servant, and coming in the likeness of men.
{John 1:1} Did not consider it robbery to be equal with God.

solite3:
go back and read my post, I was not neccesarily condemning older manuscripts but only affirm that it cannot be used to discredit the rendering of rev1:11kjv only because they don't have alpha and omega in them.scholars based their assumptions on current available manuscripts, I bet you if they find another older manuscripts that agrees with textus they will change their view .

solite3:
Occult Spiritist Supports New World Translation
Tommy Dorsett

The Watchtower Society is quite familiar with Pastor Johannes Greber and his translation of The New Testament. They have quoted him at least nine times in their publications dating from 1956 to 1983.[/color]

Seven of the quotations were of a positive nature and were used to support the Society's translation of certain biblical passages (such as John 1:1).

The other two were negative in that they exposed Greber as a spiritist who relied on the spirit world to help him translate his New Testament.

In typical Watchtower fashion, the Society got as much mileage out of Greber as possible and when their hand was exposed, they sanctimoniously tossed him aside.

It all began in 1956 in the Watchtower. Greber was revealed as a spiritist who translated the New Testament with help from God's spirits. The article says, in part:

"Says Johannes Greber in the introduction of this translation of the New Testament, copyrighted in 1937: `I myself was a Catholic priest, and until I was forty-eight years old had never as much as believed in the possibility of communicating with the world of God's spirits. The day came, however, when I involuntarily took my first step toward such communication and experienced things that shake me to the depths of my soul...'

"In keeping with his Roman Catholic extraction Greber's translation is bound with a gold-leaf cross on its stiff front cover...Very plainly the spirits in which ex-priest Greber believes helped him in his translation" (15 February).

Exposing Greber as a spiritist was certainly the right thing to do and, in fact, was consistent with the Society's teaching on spiritism over the years.

In the 1965 edition of the book, Make Sure Of All Things, Hold Fast To What Is Fine, they say, "Practice of any form of spiritism brings divine disapproval" (p. 469) and, "Destroy objects related to spiritistic practices" (p. 470).

In the 1968 book The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life, they say, "One of the ways that wicked spirits mislead men and women is through spiritism...The Bible warns us to keep from every practice associated with spiritism... God condemns every kind of spiritism" (p. 61).

Finally, in the 1978 booklet Unseen Spirits, Do They Help Us? or Do They Harm Us? they write, "In ancient Israel God commanded that anyone who practices spiritism was to be stoned to death" (p. 30); and, "According to his inspired Word, Jehovah God hates all such practices no matter what form they take or on what continent they are found" (p. 31).

And finally, "If we want Jehovah's friendship and protection, we must break all connections and associations with spiritism in its many forms. That includes disposing of any objects that relate to spiritism" (p. 41).

It is obvious that they know the dangers of spiritism. But as indicated earlier, that is not the whole story.

Just six years after exposing Greber as a spiritist, the Society acts as if they never did such a thing and, instead, they reveal Greber as a biblical scholar ( a much needed biblical scholar) in support of their own New World Translation (NWT) rendering of John 1:1.

It was 1962 when the Society introduced a new booklet entitled The Word, Who Is He? According to John. They quote Greber's translation of John 1:1. as "and the Word was a god" (p. 5) instead of "and the Word was God."

The footnote reads, "The New Testament - A New Translation and Explanation. Based on the oldest manuscripts, by Johannes Greber...edition of 1937, the front of this bound translation being stamped with a golden cross."

So there is no mistake about it, both the 1956 Watchtower article and this booklet are using the same edition of Greber's New Testament (1937 edition with the gold cross on the front cover).

In the 1956 article, Greber is a spiritist, but from this point on they are off and running with their newly found biblical scholar, Johannes Greber. In fact, 1962 was a very good year for the Society to quote Greber, the biblical scholar, as they also quoted him in the September 15 Watchtower (p. 554).

Occult Spiritist Supports New World Translation
Tommy Dorsett

The Watchtower Society is quite familiar with Pastor Johannes Greber and his translation of The New Testament. They have quoted him at least nine times in their publications dating from 1956 to 1983.

Seven of the quotations were of a positive nature and were used to support the Society's translation of certain biblical passages (such as John 1:1).

The other two were negative in that they exposed Greber as a spiritist who relied on the spirit world to help him translate his New Testament.

In typical Watchtower fashion, the Society got as much mileage out of Greber as possible and when their hand was exposed, they sanctimoniously tossed him aside.

It all began in 1956 in the Watchtower. Greber was revealed as a spiritist who translated the New Testament with help from God's spirits. The article says, in part:

"Says Johannes Greber in the introduction of this translation of the New Testament, copyrighted in 1937: `I myself was a Catholic priest, and until I was forty-eight years old had never as much as believed in the possibility of communicating with the world of God's spirits. The day came, however, when I involuntarily took my first step toward such communication and experienced things that shake me to the depths of my soul...'

"In keeping with his Roman Catholic extraction Greber's translation is bound with a gold-leaf cross on its stiff front cover...Very plainly the spirits in which ex-priest Greber believes helped him in his translation" (15 February).

Exposing Greber as a spiritist was certainly the right thing to do and, in fact, was consistent with the Society's teaching on spiritism over the years.

In the 1965 edition of the book, Make Sure Of All Things, Hold Fast To What Is Fine, they say, "Practice of any form of spiritism brings divine disapproval" (p. 469) and, "Destroy objects related to spiritistic practices" (p. 470).

In the 1968 book The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life, they say, "One of the ways that wicked spirits mislead men and women is through spiritism...The Bible warns us to keep from every practice associated with spiritism... God condemns every kind of spiritism" (p. 61).

Finally, in the 1978 booklet Unseen Spirits, Do They Help Us? or Do They Harm Us? they write, "In ancient Israel God commanded that anyone who practices spiritism was to be stoned to death" (p. 30); and, "According to his inspired Word, Jehovah God hates all such practices no matter what form they take or on what continent they are found" (p. 31).

And finally, "If we want Jehovah's friendship and protection, we must break all connections and associations with spiritism in its many forms. That includes disposing of any objects that relate to spiritism" (p. 41).

It is obvious that they know the dangers of spiritism. But as indicated earlier, that is not the whole story.

Just six years after exposing Greber as a spiritist, the Society acts as if they never did such a thing and, instead, they reveal Greber as a biblical scholar ( a much needed biblical scholar) in support of their own New World Translation (NWT) rendering of John 1:1.

It was 1962 when the Society introduced a new booklet entitled The Word, Who Is He? According to John. They quote Greber's translation of John 1:1. as "and the Word was a god" (p. 5) instead of "and the Word was God."

The footnote reads, "The New Testament - A New Translation and Explanation. Based on the oldest manuscripts, by Johannes Greber...edition of 1937, the front of this bound translation being stamped with a golden cross."

So there is no mistake about it, both the 1956 Watchtower article and this booklet are using the same edition of Greber's New Testament (1937 edition with the gold cross on the front cover).

In the 1956 article, Greber is a spiritist, but from this point on they are off and running with their newly found biblical scholar, Johannes Greber. In fact, 1962 was a very good year for the Society to quote Greber, the biblical scholar, as they also quoted him in the September 15 Watchtower (p. 554).

He is then quoted in the 1965 edition of Make Sure... (p. 489), the same book in which they warn against practicing spiritism.

Then at two places in their reference work Aid to Bible Understanding (1971, p. 1134 and 1669) and, in two later editions of the Watchtower (15 October 1975, p. 640 and 15 April 1976, p. 231).

This continuous inconsistency was brought to the public's attention in the early 1980's as cult researchers discovered who Greber really was.

Various individuals began to write to the Society asking where they might obtain a copy of Greber's New Testament. Even though the Society knew the address of the Johannes Greber Memorial Foundation as indicated by a letter dated 20 December 1980 from the Society to the Foundation, they gave bogus addresses and sources for his New Testament.

In a letter from the Society in December 1981, they gave one inquirer the address of a building that was no longer in existence. In a letter to this writer in September 1982, they suggested inquiring of the American Bible Society in New York.

It was obvious the Society was involved in a cover-up. They did not want their readers to know who Greber really was.

In a certified letter dated 6 October 1982 (received by the Society on 12 October 1982 according to the return receipt) this writer informed the Society of the Foundation's address for future reference. Therefore, it is not surprising to find in the Watchtower under "Questions from Readers" the following:

"`Why, in recent years, has the Watchtower not made use of the translation by the former Catholic priest, Johannes Greber?'

"...as indicated in a forward to the 1980 edition of The New Testament by Johannes Greber, this translation relied on `God's Spirit World,' to clarify for him how he should translate difficult passages. It is stated: `His wife, a medium of God's Spirit world was often instrumental in conveying the correct answers from God's Messengers to Pastor Greber.' The Watchtower has deemed it improper to make use of a translation that has such a close rapport with spiritism." (1 April 1983)

The Society knew all along that they were dealing with a spiritist, but being desperate for sources that supported their own NWT, his translation became a valuable asset to the Society, giving birth to the cover-up.

According to this answer, the Society did not realize Greber was a spiritist until they obtained the 1980 edition of his New Testament and read about it in the forward. In essence, they are saying that the 1937 edition did not reveal this information about Greber.

Their tampering with the truth can be demonstrated by comparing this answer with what they wrote about Greber in the 1956 Watchtower.

In addition to what the Society revealed about Greber in that article, the introduction to the 1937 edition states: "Whoever, then, seeks to know what is true and what is untrue in the Bible as we have it today, can find out only in the way in which all God-fearing people in the past have sought the truth, namely by communicating with God's spirit world.

"In the rare instance in which a text pronounced correct by the divine spirits can be found in none of the manuscripts available today, I have used the text as it was given to me by those spirits."

Obviously, the Society had at their disposal enough information to determine that Greber was a spiritist and they said as much in the 1956 article.

Could it be that the Watchtower Society has been dishonest?t) this writer informed the Society of the Foundation's address for future reference. Therefore, it is not surprising to find in the Watchtower under "Questions from Readers" the following:

"`Why, in recent years, has the Watchtower not made use of the translation by the former Catholic priest, Johannes Greber?'

"...as indicated in a forward to the 1980 edition of The New Testament by Johannes Greber, this translation relied on `God's Spirit World,' to clarify for him how he should translate difficult passages. It is stated: `His wife, a medium of God's Spirit world was often instrumental in conveying the correct answers from God's Messengers to Pastor Greber.' The Watchtower has deemed it improper to make use of a translation that has such a close rapport with spiritism." (1 April 1983)

The Society knew all along that they were dealing with a spiritist, but being desperate for sources that supported their own NWT, his translation became a valuable asset to the Society, giving birth to the cover-up.

According to this answer, the Society did not realize Greber was a spiritist until they obtained the 1980 edition of his New Testament and read about it in the forward. In essence, they are saying that the 1937 edition did not reveal this information about Greber.

Their tampering with the truth can be demonstrated by comparing this answer with what they wrote about Greber in the 1956 Watchtower.

In addition to what the Society revealed about Greber in that article, the introduction to the 1937 edition states: "Whoever, then, seeks to know what is true and what is untrue in the Bible as we have it today, can find out only in the way in which all God-fearing people in the past have sought the truth, namely by communicating with God's spirit world.

"In the rare instance in which a text pronounced correct by the divine spirits can be found in none of the manuscripts available today, I have used the text as it was given to me by those spirits."

Obviously, the Society had at their disposal enough information to determine that Greber was a spiritist and they said as much in the 1956 article.

Could it be that the Watchtower Society has been dishonest?

solite3:
hmm you guys are a confuse set of people

johnw74:


I havent changed from "God and the Word are one God" at all, the two statments mean exactly the same thing, there is only one true God.

false jw loves to lie

Lie Lie captivator

solite3:
Paul and barnabas never love to debate as you love to.