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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Nobody: 8:43pm On May 27, 2016 |
CAPTIVATOR:hmm you guys are a confuse set of people 2 Likes |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Nobody: 10:15pm On May 27, 2016 |
CAPTIVATOR:Paul and barnabas never love to debate as you love to. 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 11:43pm On May 27, 2016 |
How good are you Johnw74 and lets watch dolphinheart lie against this one. johnw74: |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 11:54pm On May 27, 2016 |
There is no excuse you said it. Maybe you should watch what you say on this page. Someone had returned to you, what you do to others. Mr self righteousness dolphinheart himself. dolphinheart: |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by johnw74: 12:16am On May 28, 2016 |
CAPTIVATOR: I havent changed from "God and the Word are one God" at all, the two statments mean exactly the same thing, there is only one true God. false jw loves to lie Lie Lie captivator 2 Likes |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by johnw74: 12:28am On May 28, 2016 |
dolphinheart: ummm, the subject is did dolphinheart call God and the Word a two headed god, I showed that he did I said he would twist and lie Dolphinheart on God and the Word being God: dolphinheart: Lie Lie dolphinheart |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by johnw74: 12:33am On May 28, 2016 |
brocab: Yeah he did lie and twist all over the place , captivator was happy to support him in his lies, they are truly satans disciples as per John 8:44 2 Likes |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by goodnews201668: 12:50am On May 28, 2016 |
johnw74: 1 Corinthians 15:24-28New International Version (NIV) 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[a] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, [/b]it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.[b] 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 12:56am On May 28, 2016 |
So does this mean you didn't watch the video? Pity you may have learned something good about yourself and who you stand for. Christians around the world already know about the molesting of young children, and pornography that is happening inside Kingdom hall, a cover up story that the watchtower hides their hidden agenda's away from the world. The victims of crime' had finely revealed the truth' Many of our friendly neighbourhood JW elders are secretly masturbating and having sex with young victims while they do their door to door knocking spree, under false agenda's men and women claiming to know God, seeking the innocent, under the authority of the watchtower-the house of darkness that's involved inside the organization of freemasonry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-w3smjZUgM And what does the church do? Nothing. CAPTIVATOR: |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by johnw74: 1:10am On May 28, 2016 |
goodnews201668: You have to understand that they are one God, God is one, and you have to understand that they are two persons,concerning John 1:1 I won't say more on the matter than that, with the disbelievers that frequent this place, don't give your pearls to the dogs etc. also others explain things much better than I. theres plenty of good explanations given with scripture backing if you want to read them here is one: https://carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/john-11-word-was-god brocab, you will like this, a good read: 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by johnw74: 1:22am On May 28, 2016 |
Lie Lie barristter more lies from false jw" continue reading here: https://carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/jesus-abaddon-and-apollyon-destroyer more truth on the sect that is called jehovahs' witnesses at these sites: http://jwfacts.com/ https://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/jehovahs-witnesses-answered.htm
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 1:30am On May 28, 2016 |
JW's are all the same, without them having the spirit of God, what more can I say? They argue over words they don't even understand, their own blindness allows them to only see what isn't there. I have had arguments with dolphinheart myself over scriptures, his own blindness won't allow him to go any further with the word of God. JW's can't see the scriptures the way the Spirit of God shows us. Dolphinheart is like a broken record he will find every verses he could find, that he believes it sounds-he doesn't understand what the Lord shows us. He is actually turning the word of God up side down, every verse we have given him, he finds another that sounds sightly different and sits on it, calling us lairs because we have given to him 'what God had given to us. Under false pro-tenses, he is actually calling the word a lie. If he knew the word of God as he makes himself out he does, then his rotten fruit wouldn't stand out in the open so much as it does now. These JW's haven't a clue who's speaking the truth, half of them wouldn't even believe dolphinheart, if you look at their fruit, most of them are trying to take scriptures from the KJV rather then take scriptures from their own NWT bible. The reason to that is" they don't believe in their own bible, because they have scriptures written in their, that proves their Jehovah God is actually Jesus. They ask questions we answer them rightly and they don't even return back to us with a reply. johnw74: |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by johnw74: 1:36am On May 28, 2016 |
brocab: The more false jw lies that are exposed, the more they call out "LIAR" 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 1:47am On May 28, 2016 |
That's right, and we are the ones pissing them off at the moment. JW's work in ways of waves, if they think they have a foot hold on somebody, they send in the big guns, but when that somebody turns around with bigger guns, their first reactions against that somebody is, they change from the nice guy into raven wolves casting that first stone of hatred, black listing against those who refuse to listen. johnw74: |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 1:55am On May 28, 2016 |
I do like reading it, I wonder if dolphinheart would like reading this too? johnw74: |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 5:20am On May 28, 2016 |
Lets hear what the JW's have to say about this verse. This must be one of the most favourable scriptures in the bible, One short passage that claims Jesus being in the form of God. {Philippians 2:5-7} kJV "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, who being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taken the form of a servant, and coming in the likeness of men. {John 1:1} Did not consider it robbery to be equal with God. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 7:42am On May 28, 2016 |
CAPTIVATOR: can you imagine!, he started with one allegation, saying I said something, told him to show where I said so, he must have gone back to check it, knew his allegations are false , he now came back to adjust the allegations. 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Nobody: 7:53am On May 28, 2016 |
Definition of Nature the basic or inherent features of something, especially when seen as characteristic of it. "helping them to realize the nature of their problems" synonyms: essence, inherent/basic/essential qualities, inherent/basic/essential features, character, complexion More "such crimes are, by their very nature, difficult to hide" kind, sort, type, variety, category, ilk, class, species, genre, style, cast, order, kidney, mold, stamp, stripe "experiments of a similar nature" the innate or essential qualities or character of a person or animal. "it's not in her nature to listen to advice" synonyms: character, personality, disposition, temperament, makeup, psyche, constitution "it was not in her nature to argue" inborn or hereditary characteristics as an influence on or determinant of personality. archaic a person of a specified character. "Emerson was so much more luminous a nature https://Carm.org>Jesus-two-naturesJesus' Two Natures: God and Man by Matt Slick Jesus is the most important person who has ever lived since He is the Savior, God in human flesh. He is not half God and half man. He is fully divine and fully man. In other words, Jesus has two distinct natures: divine and human. Jesus is the Word who was God and was with God and was made flesh (John 1:1, 14). This means that in the single person of Jesus He has both a human and divine nature, God and man. The divine nature was not changed when the Word became flesh (John 1:1, 14). Instead, the Word was joined with humanity (Col. 2:9). Jesus' divine nature was not altered. Also, Jesus is not merely a man who "had God within Him," nor is He a man who "manifested the God principle." He is God in flesh, second person of the Trinity. "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word," Heb. 1:3. Jesus' two natures are not "mixed together" (Eutychianism), nor are they combined into a new God-man nature (Monophysitism). They are separate yet act as a unit in the one person of Jesus. This is called the Hypostatic Union. The following chart should help you see the two natures of Jesus "in action": GOD MAN He is worshipped (Matt. 2:2, 11, 14:33) He worshipped the Father (John 17) He was called God John 20:28, Heb. 1:8 He was called man (Mark 15:39, John 19:5) He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1) He was called Son of Man (John 9:35-37) He is prayed to (Acts 7:59) He prayed to the Father (John 17) He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22, Heb. 4:15) He was tempted (Matt. 4:1) He knows all things (John 21:17) He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52) He gives eternal life (John 10:28) He died (Rom. 5: All the fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9) He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39) The Communicatio Idiomatum A doctrine that is related to the Hypostatic Union is the communicatio idiomatum (Latin for "communication of properties" ). This is the teaching that the attributes of both the divine and human natures are ascribed to the one person of Jesus. This means that the man Jesus could lay claim to the glory He had with the Father before the world was made (John 17:5), claim that He descended from Heaven (John 3:13), and also claim omnipresence (Matt. 28:20). All of these are divine qualities that are laid claim to by Jesus, therefore, the attributes of the divine properties were claimed by the person of Jesus. One of the most common errors that non-Christian cults make is not understanding the two natures of Christ. For example, the Jehovah's Witnesses focus on Jesus' humanity and ignore His divinity. They repeatedly quote verses dealing with Jesus as a man and try to set them against Scripture showing that Jesus is also divine. On the other hand, the Christian Scientists do the reverse. They focus on the Scriptures showing Jesus' divinity to the extent of denying His true humanity. For a proper understanding of Jesus and, therefore, all other doctrines that relate to Him, His two natures must be properly understood and defined. Jesus is one person with two natures. This is why He would grow in wisdom and stature (Luke 2:52) and yet know all things (John 21:17). He is the Divine Word that became flesh (John 1:1, 14). The Bible is about Jesus (John 5:39). The prophets prophesied about Him (Acts 10:43). The Father bore witness of Him (John 5:37, 8:18). The Holy Spirit bore witness of Him (John 15:26). The works Jesus did bore witness of Him (John 5:36, 10:25). The multitudes bore witness of Him (John 12:17). And, Jesus bore witness of Himself (John 14:6, 18:6). Other verses to consider when examining His deity are John 10:30-33, 20:28, Col. 2:9, Phil. 2:5-8, Heb. 1:6-8, and 2 Pet. 1:1. 1 Tim. 2:5 says, "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Right now, there is a man in Heaven on the throne of God. He is our advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1). He is our Savior (Titus 2:13). He is our Lord (Rom. 10:9-10). He is Jesus. 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 7:54am On May 28, 2016 |
solite3: pls share your info with us. pls tell us how the Textus Receptus came to have the words " Alpha and omega in verse 11 of Revelation chapter 1. fact 1: the oldest available manuscripts that contain rev 1:11 do not have the words " Alpha and omega" in that verse! fact: 2: you have refused to tell us how the words came into the Textus Receptus factc3: I've shown you several scholars who rejected the addition of those words, with reasons postulated about their views on that verse, you can see that they did not use the whole book of Revelation as defence, they focused only on the verse under discussion. fact 4: you have not been able to show any scholar that supports the inclusion of those words in that verse. 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 7:58am On May 28, 2016 |
[quote author=solite3 post=46031059][/quote] 1. solite3 did you read the request well well, read it again and do the necessary corrections 2. pls tell us the name of your church or organization you associate with ! 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 8:08am On May 28, 2016 |
brocab: well, you had been lying before Johnny joined you. You cannot come out to say this is what I said, even when johnw74 provided you with supposed evidence. johnw74, on the other hand keep changing the words he claimed I said. Both of you know that by posting the full text of what I said, readers will see your childish games. bet you are really pained that he could not quote my own words, but what should be paining you more is your inability, blindness and deliberate refusal to quote and explain the questions and scriptures posted in that post you responded to. YOU SO MUCH WISH YOU COULD SHUT SOME ONE UP CUS YOU CANT RESPOND TO THE SCRIPTURES HE KEEPS POST ING TO YOU! 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by dolphinheart(m): 8:13am On May 28, 2016 |
johnw74: it has been proving to you that you keep adjusting your allegations. you could not post the post and tell us where I said so . It is also noted by everyone that you could not respond to scriptures posted to you on that thread ! 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by goodnews201668: 8:15am On May 28, 2016 |
johnw74: One God? Yet one is giving the other authority? Na waoo, by the way john 1:1 didn't say they are one God. John 1:1King James Version (KJV) 1 In the beginning was the Word,and[b][/b] the Word was with God[b][/b], and the Word was God. Two different persons, the word was with God. Can he be with God and still be the same God? |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Nobody: 8:31am On May 28, 2016 |
Occult Spiritist Supports New World Translation Tommy Dorsett The Watchtower Society is quite familiar with Pastor Johannes Greber and his translation of The New Testament. They have quoted him at least nine times in their publications dating from 1956 to 1983.[/color] Seven of the quotations were of a positive nature and were used to support the Society's translation of certain biblical passages (such as John 1:1). The other two were negative in that they exposed Greber as a spiritist who relied on the spirit world to help him translate his New Testament. In typical Watchtower fashion, the Society got as much mileage out of Greber as possible and when their hand was exposed, they sanctimoniously tossed him aside. It all began in 1956 in the Watchtower. Greber was revealed as a spiritist who translated the New Testament with help from God's spirits. The article says, in part: "Says Johannes Greber in the introduction of this translation of the New Testament, copyrighted in 1937: `I myself was a Catholic priest, and until I was forty-eight years old had never as much as believed in the possibility of communicating with the world of God's spirits. The day came, however, when I involuntarily took my first step toward such communication and experienced things that shake me to the depths of my soul...' "In keeping with his Roman Catholic extraction Greber's translation is bound with a gold-leaf cross on its stiff front cover...Very plainly the spirits in which ex-priest Greber believes helped him in his translation" (15 February). Exposing Greber as a spiritist was certainly the right thing to do and, in fact, was consistent with the Society's teaching on spiritism over the years. In the 1965 edition of the book, Make Sure Of All Things, Hold Fast To What Is Fine, they say, "Practice of any form of spiritism brings divine disapproval" (p. 469) and, "Destroy objects related to spiritistic practices" (p. 470). In the 1968 book The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life, they say, "One of the ways that wicked spirits mislead men and women is through spiritism...The Bible warns us to keep from every practice associated with spiritism... God condemns every kind of spiritism" (p. 61). Finally, in the 1978 booklet Unseen Spirits, Do They Help Us? or Do They Harm Us? they write, "In ancient Israel God commanded that anyone who practices spiritism was to be stoned to death" (p. 30); and, "According to his inspired Word, Jehovah God hates all such practices no matter what form they take or on what continent they are found" (p. 31). And finally, "If we want Jehovah's friendship and protection, we must break all connections and associations with spiritism in its many forms. That includes disposing of any objects that relate to spiritism" (p. 41). It is obvious that they know the dangers of spiritism. But as indicated earlier, that is not the whole story. Just six years after exposing Greber as a spiritist, the Society acts as if they never did such a thing and, instead, they reveal Greber as a biblical scholar ( a much needed biblical scholar) in support of their own New World Translation (NWT) rendering of John 1:1. It was 1962 when the Society introduced a new booklet entitled The Word, Who Is He? According to John. They quote Greber's translation of John 1:1. as "and the Word was a god" (p. 5) instead of "and the Word was God." The footnote reads, "The New Testament - A New Translation and Explanation. Based on the oldest manuscripts, by Johannes Greber...edition of 1937, the front of this bound translation being stamped with a golden cross." So there is no mistake about it, both the 1956 Watchtower article and this booklet are using the same edition of Greber's New Testament (1937 edition with the gold cross on the front cover). In the 1956 article, Greber is a spiritist, but from this point on they are off and running with their newly found biblical scholar, Johannes Greber. In fact, 1962 was a very good year for the Society to quote Greber, the biblical scholar, as they also quoted him in the September 15 Watchtower (p. 554). Occult Spiritist Supports New World Translation Tommy Dorsett The Watchtower Society is quite familiar with Pastor Johannes Greber and his translation of The New Testament. They have quoted him at least nine times in their publications dating from 1956 to 1983. Seven of the quotations were of a positive nature and were used to support the Society's translation of certain biblical passages (such as John 1:1). The other two were negative in that they exposed Greber as a spiritist who relied on the spirit world to help him translate his New Testament. In typical Watchtower fashion, the Society got as much mileage out of Greber as possible and when their hand was exposed, they sanctimoniously tossed him aside. It all began in 1956 in the Watchtower. Greber was revealed as a spiritist who translated the New Testament with help from God's spirits. The article says, in part: "Says Johannes Greber in the introduction of this translation of the New Testament, copyrighted in 1937: `I myself was a Catholic priest, and until I was forty-eight years old had never as much as believed in the possibility of communicating with the world of God's spirits. The day came, however, when I involuntarily took my first step toward such communication and experienced things that shake me to the depths of my soul...' "In keeping with his Roman Catholic extraction Greber's translation is bound with a gold-leaf cross on its stiff front cover...Very plainly the spirits in which ex-priest Greber believes helped him in his translation" (15 February). Exposing Greber as a spiritist was certainly the right thing to do and, in fact, was consistent with the Society's teaching on spiritism over the years. In the 1965 edition of the book, Make Sure Of All Things, Hold Fast To What Is Fine, they say, "Practice of any form of spiritism brings divine disapproval" (p. 469) and, "Destroy objects related to spiritistic practices" (p. 470). In the 1968 book The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life, they say, "One of the ways that wicked spirits mislead men and women is through spiritism...The Bible warns us to keep from every practice associated with spiritism... God condemns every kind of spiritism" (p. 61). Finally, in the 1978 booklet Unseen Spirits, Do They Help Us? or Do They Harm Us? they write, "In ancient Israel God commanded that anyone who practices spiritism was to be stoned to death" (p. 30); and, "According to his inspired Word, Jehovah God hates all such practices no matter what form they take or on what continent they are found" (p. 31). And finally, "If we want Jehovah's friendship and protection, we must break all connections and associations with spiritism in its many forms. That includes disposing of any objects that relate to spiritism" (p. 41). It is obvious that they know the dangers of spiritism. But as indicated earlier, that is not the whole story. Just six years after exposing Greber as a spiritist, the Society acts as if they never did such a thing and, instead, they reveal Greber as a biblical scholar ( a much needed biblical scholar) in support of their own New World Translation (NWT) rendering of John 1:1. It was 1962 when the Society introduced a new booklet entitled The Word, Who Is He? According to John. They quote Greber's translation of John 1:1. as "and the Word was a god" (p. 5) instead of "and the Word was God." The footnote reads, "The New Testament - A New Translation and Explanation. Based on the oldest manuscripts, by Johannes Greber...edition of 1937, the front of this bound translation being stamped with a golden cross." So there is no mistake about it, both the 1956 Watchtower article and this booklet are using the same edition of Greber's New Testament (1937 edition with the gold cross on the front cover). In the 1956 article, Greber is a spiritist, but from this point on they are off and running with their newly found biblical scholar, Johannes Greber. In fact, 1962 was a very good year for the Society to quote Greber, the biblical scholar, as they also quoted him in the September 15 Watchtower (p. 554). He is then quoted in the 1965 edition of Make Sure... (p. 489), the same book in which they warn against practicing spiritism. Then at two places in their reference work Aid to Bible Understanding (1971, p. 1134 and 1669) and, in two later editions of the Watchtower (15 October 1975, p. 640 and 15 April 1976, p. 231). This continuous inconsistency was brought to the public's attention in the early 1980's as cult researchers discovered who Greber really was. Various individuals began to write to the Society asking where they might obtain a copy of Greber's New Testament. Even though the Society knew the address of the Johannes Greber Memorial Foundation as indicated by a letter dated 20 December 1980 from the Society to the Foundation, they gave bogus addresses and sources for his New Testament. In a letter from the Society in December 1981, they gave one inquirer the address of a building that was no longer in existence. In a letter to this writer in September 1982, they suggested inquiring of the American Bible Society in New York. It was obvious the Society was involved in a cover-up. They did not want their readers to know who Greber really was. In a certified letter dated 6 October 1982 (received by the Society on 12 October 1982 according to the return receipt) this writer informed the Society of the Foundation's address for future reference. Therefore, it is not surprising to find in the Watchtower under "Questions from Readers" the following: "`Why, in recent years, has the Watchtower not made use of the translation by the former Catholic priest, Johannes Greber?' "...as indicated in a forward to the 1980 edition of The New Testament by Johannes Greber, this translation relied on `God's Spirit World,' to clarify for him how he should translate difficult passages. It is stated: `His wife, a medium of God's Spirit world was often instrumental in conveying the correct answers from God's Messengers to Pastor Greber.' The Watchtower has deemed it improper to make use of a translation that has such a close rapport with spiritism." (1 April 1983) The Society knew all along that they were dealing with a spiritist, but being desperate for sources that supported their own NWT, his translation became a valuable asset to the Society, giving birth to the cover-up. According to this answer, the Society did not realize Greber was a spiritist until they obtained the 1980 edition of his New Testament and read about it in the forward. In essence, they are saying that the 1937 edition did not reveal this information about Greber. Their tampering with the truth can be demonstrated by comparing this answer with what they wrote about Greber in the 1956 Watchtower. In addition to what the Society revealed about Greber in that article, the introduction to the 1937 edition states: "Whoever, then, seeks to know what is true and what is untrue in the Bible as we have it today, can find out only in the way in which all God-fearing people in the past have sought the truth, namely by communicating with God's spirit world. "In the rare instance in which a text pronounced correct by the divine spirits can be found in none of the manuscripts available today, I have used the text as it was given to me by those spirits." Obviously, the Society had at their disposal enough information to determine that Greber was a spiritist and they said as much in the 1956 article. Could it be that the Watchtower Society has been dishonest?t) this writer informed the Society of the Foundation's address for future reference. Therefore, it is not surprising to find in the Watchtower under "Questions from Readers" the following: "`Why, in recent years, has the Watchtower not made use of the translation by the former Catholic priest, Johannes Greber?' "...as indicated in a forward to the 1980 edition of The New Testament by Johannes Greber, this translation relied on `God's Spirit World,' to clarify for him how he should translate difficult passages. It is stated: `His wife, a medium of God's Spirit world was often instrumental in conveying the correct answers from God's Messengers to Pastor Greber.' The Watchtower has deemed it improper to make use of a translation that has such a close rapport with spiritism." (1 April 1983) The Society knew all along that they were dealing with a spiritist, but being desperate for sources that supported their own NWT, his translation became a valuable asset to the Society, giving birth to the cover-up. According to this answer, the Society did not realize Greber was a spiritist until they obtained the 1980 edition of his New Testament and read about it in the forward. In essence, they are saying that the 1937 edition did not reveal this information about Greber. Their tampering with the truth can be demonstrated by comparing this answer with what they wrote about Greber in the 1956 Watchtower. In addition to what the Society revealed about Greber in that article, the introduction to the 1937 edition states: "Whoever, then, seeks to know what is true and what is untrue in the Bible as we have it today, can find out only in the way in which all God-fearing people in the past have sought the truth, namely by communicating with God's spirit world. "In the rare instance in which a text pronounced correct by the divine spirits can be found in none of the manuscripts available today, I have used the text as it was given to me by those spirits." Obviously, the Society had at their disposal enough information to determine that Greber was a spiritist and they said as much in the 1956 article. Could it be that the Watchtower Society has been dishonest? |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Nobody: 8:41am On May 28, 2016 |
dolphinheart:go back and read my post, I was not neccesarily condemning older manuscripts but only affirm that it cannot be used to discredit the rendering of rev1:11kjv only because they don't have alpha and omega in them.scholars based their assumptions on current available manuscripts, I bet you if they find another older manuscripts that agrees with textus they will change their view . |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Jozzy4: 9:27am On May 28, 2016 |
brocab: Dogmatism has really affected ur thinking ability, why dont u see that this verse is translated wrongly ? LET THIS MIND BE IN YOU , Wow , then We too should count it not robbery to claim equality with God ? 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Jozzy4: 9:29am On May 28, 2016 |
solite3: oga, why are u scared to let them know the name and history of ur organization or church ? 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Jozzy4: 9:37am On May 28, 2016 |
solite3: The Bible condemns spiritism, but about his comment regarding the New World Translation, are u saying its wrong to quote a person if his statement doesnt violate Gods law ? or are u saying everything a person said should be disregarded once such a person is not a Christian ? honestly, I dont understand ur unsolicited rant, there is lady on this platform, an agnostic i think who have seen really explained bible verses well even more than most of the so - called christian, infact she has destroyed many peoples argument using just the bible. she is saying Fact at times despite being an agnostic. 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Jozzy4: 9:40am On May 28, 2016 |
solite3: when u have nothing to say to his simple and direct answer 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by CAPTIVATOR: 10:00am On May 28, 2016 |
johnw74: its a known fact that the bible never said God and the word are ONE God, its one of this unbiblical teachings of pastor johnw74 . @ bold ... who is the ONLY one true God ? 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by CAPTIVATOR: 10:03am On May 28, 2016 |
solite3: na wa o, u dont know me and u said I LOVE to debate . have we met before ? besides, Act 15:2 proves debate is welcomed 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Nobody: 1:09pm On May 28, 2016 |
DVDs On the topic of Jehovah's Witnesses See DVD catalog for prices & more details.  JW's and the Real Jesus  JW's a Non-prophet Organization  Witnesses of Jehovah  The Witness at Your Door  The Witness Goes Out  Battling over the Children (JW Child custody cases) DVD catalog The Pagan Roots of Jehovah's Witnesses Some may think this is a strange title indeed in connection with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Jehovah's Witnesses pride themselves on being the only true Christians and accuse all other religions of being pagan or occult, under the control of the Devil. The dictionary defines "Pagan" as "heathenish" and "irreligious". A "heathen" is also called a "pagan" according to the dictionary. Most pagan practices involve the occult, and the roots of the J.W. organization are steeped in both and it continues to this day. Many modern-day Jehovah's Witnesses go on their way performing their ceaseless round of works to try and earn their salvation, believing they are pure and free from any pagan contamination.Although their organization carefully conceals these things, I would ask Jehovah's Witnesses to be open-minded enough to check out what I am about to present. We begin with their history. PAGAN ROOTS OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES FOUND IN THEIR HISTORY We must, of course, examine their founder Charles Taze Russell, and see if we can find any pagan roots: The Watchtower of July 15, 1950, page 212 make the following revealing statement about their founder, "In his teens Charles Taze Russell, the editor, had been a member of the Congregational Church and a strong believer in the eternal torture of damned human souls in a hell of literal fire and brimstone...But when trying to reclaim an acquaintance, an infidel, to Christianity, he himself was routed from his sectarian position and driven into skepticism. Hungrily he began investigating the heathen religions in search of the truth on God's purpose and man's destiny. Proving all these religions unsatisfactory and before giving up religious investigation altogether, he took up the search of the Holy Scriptures from a skeptic's viewpoint, now untrammeled by the false religious doctrines of the sectarian systems of Christendom." What an admission! He knew so little of the Christian faith and what the Bible taught that an "infidel" drove him into skepticism. Not only that, he filled his mind with pagan, occult beliefs before returning as an obviously last choice to the Bible. Notice his approach to the Holy Scriptures was as a "skeptic", not a believer, feeling he was free from the influence of "Christendom". I'll say he was! His mind was not protected by sound doctrine, and his head was full of the pagan, occult teaching he had so eagerly sought. It will become more and more apparent as we pursue the pagan roots of the Jehovah's Witnesses that he retained that pagan influence, all the while professing to be an unspotted Christian. Readers of the very first issue of "Zion's Watch Tower" should have been alerted to his intentions to fuse the occult with Christianity when he stated, " a truth presented by Satan himself is just as true as a truth stated by God"....and "...accept truth wherever you find it". In his personal life he was greatly influenced by a prevailing health treatment. Various psychics professed to give "readings" by examining the bumps on one's head. This is certainly not a Christian practice, and in fact, leaves one open for spiritistic influence. He was already supposed to be dispensing Bible truth when he was, at the same time, obviously concerned with the shape of one's skull. During this time he taught in the Watchtowers of March 15, l913 and January 15th, l912, that one's desire to worship God was due to the shape of one's brain. He also felt that if a dog's head was shaped like a man's, the dog would think as a man! Phrenology is not Christianity, yet he attempted to fuse the two beliefs. PAGAN SYMBOLS ON WATCHTOWER PUBLICATIONS If one examines Russell's theology in his series of books called "Studies in the Scriptures" he will notice a blatantly occult symbol adorning the covers. The winged solar disk is a symbol of ancient Egypt representing the sun god. Throughout the centuries it came to represent various other pagan deities. It was, in fact, the symbol for the Baal gods during Jezebel's time. Russell attempted to fuse paganism and Christianity and pass it off as untainted Christianity. It's interesting that even the Watchtower Society admits that it was a fear of hellfire that drove a young Charles Russell to seek an alternate faith. Although the Society denied writing a biography of their founder (see Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, page 63), they, in fact, wrote three, in 1925, 1926, and 1927. The Watchtower Society has a history of lying, not only to outsiders, but to its own members! Is this Christian or Pagan? The Society tries to make it Christian by calling it "justified lying". This doctrine is still in place down to our day. We have just considered an example where they denied writing a biography of Charles Russell, but really wrote three. This doesn't fit their definition of "justified lying" which is also called "theocratic war strategy". Justified lying is defined by them as follows: "As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies..." (Watchtower, June 1/60 p.352). The trouble is, not only does the Society lie to outsiders, they regularly lie to their own members! We will consider more of this practice of lying later, but cannot help but quote Revelation 22:15, "Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices lying". While on the biblical subject of sorcerers, let's also look at Charles Taze Russell and sorcery. Sorcery is defined as "Divination by the assistance or supposed assistance of evil spirits; magic enchantment; witchcraft." Sorcerers are usually into astrology as well, looking for patterns and meanings in the stars. Charles Taze Russell was no exception. In the discourse called "The Divine Plan of the Ages with Stellar Correspondencies" by Grant Jolly, a contemporary of Charles Taze Russell, we find the Society trying to foist the pagan zodiac on its followers. In this discourse, under the heading "The Heavens Declare the Glory of God" we find this statement:  (Presented at the 1914 convention just a few days before they were to go to heaven) from "Is this God's Organization" by Bill Cetnar) "...From this we may suppose that the signs (the constellations) of the Zodiac are approximately as old as the human race and perhaps of Divine origin....Indeed the same Bible which points to the Great Pyramid points also to the Heavens as declaring the wonderful plan of salvation.....In them (that is, the stars) there is written the hope of eternal life, which God that cannot lie promised before the world began." (Titus 1:2) This promise was indeed recorded in the stars before this world began. In considering the Zodiac, it will be necessary to carefully avoid the many errors that have attached themselves in connection with the various heathen religions." What double talk! The Society takes a completely pagan concept, embraces it, adopts it, goes so far as to compare Jesus Christ to Pisces, even saying, "...Pisces shall have completely bruised the serpent's head". The discourse would have done better to have quoted Isaiah 47:13,14 to their eager listeners, "...Let now the astrologers, Those who prophesy by the stars, Those who predict by the new moons, Stand up and save you from what will come upon you. Behold they have become like stubble, Fire burns them; They cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame...." Actually, much of what the early Watchtower Society was involved in could be better called "numerology". Numerology is defined in the dictionary as "belief in the occult influence of numbers upon the life of an individual". The Watchtower taught for many years that the numbers contained in the great pyramid foretold all kinds of events for the human race. They carefully applied every measurement, and translated it into years, months, and days. It is too complex to go into in great detail, so we will consider one example. The Watchtower of June 15, l922, page 187 supported their "absolute date" of 539 B.C. by allowing "an inch for a year" in the Great Pyramid of Gizeh. All their other dates are based on this so-called "absolute year" date down till today, and it is false! This fact sets off a whole string of equally false dates. The year 607 BC for the desolation of Jerusalem and used by Jehovah's Witnesses is therefore likewise false. The "seven times" or "Gentile Times" used by the Jehovah's Witnesses and calculated as 2,520 years is also incorrect and without biblical basis. Their "keystone Year" of 1914, originally set by pyramid calculations, is likewise in error. It will soon be evident to all Jehovah's Witnesses when the generation of 1914 passes on with no fulfillment of their hopes for a new order to be ushered in. Every Jehovah's Witness should take himself off to a public library and read up on Pyramidology. They will discover the occult roots of their group and also be surprised to find out how many blatant occult, pagan groups also name 1914 due to pyramid studies. Modern Jehovah's Witnesses may be surprised to know that Charles Taze Russell wrapped himself in a toga (a pagan Roman garment) prior to his death, and was buried near a pyramid displaying a cross, a crown, and an open Bible! Even in his death he left a memorial of his attempt to fuse paganism with Christianity. Jehovah's Witnesses may visit his grave site for themselves and see. How sad that the Jehovah's Witnesses are following a false organization, using false dates, and built on false promises. We need to do everything in our power as concerned Christians to make them aware of this deception. THE CONSISTENT USE OF PAGAN, OCCULT SOURCES THROUGHOUT THE WATCHTOWER'S HISTORY Some Jehovah's Witnesses will try to excuse their founder, Charles Russell, by admitting that he did have some strange doctrines in the beginning, but that the light has grown "brighter and brighter". However, history proves that the Society has consistently used pagan, occult sources to support their doctrines and teachings. Consider the publication of their "New World Translation of the Scriptures". They consistently dishonestly quoted reputable scholars to try to make it appear that they had their support when they did not. The Watchtower Society has the occult view of Jesus Christ , namely that he is "a god", and they altered their "bible" to try and support this distortion of the Scriptures. Examples are numerous and lengthy and we have covered many of them in our other teaching tapes and literature, so will consider only one example here. To support their pagan heresy that Jesus is only "a god", they resorted to quoting a spirit medium for support, with the full knowledge that he was one. Consider first their distortion of John 1:1 found in their "bible", "In (the) beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." For support of this distortion, they turned to the so-called "expertise" of a known spirit-medium. His name was Johannes Greber. He was a defrocked Catholic Priest who received his so-called "translation" of the bible through spiritistic means, usually in trances. The Watchtower Society exposed him in the February 15th, l956 Watchtower, warning that his sources were demonic. We couldn't agree with them more! However, in 1961, just five years later, they were singing his praises and quoting him as an authority for their New World Translation, since he was a supporter of their doctrine on the person of Jesus Christ, and all three sources, Greber, the demons, and the Watchtower Society all agreed that Jesus was merely "a god". While knowingly agreeing with and quoting a spirit medium, they nevertheless spoke out against spiritistic practices. An example is in the October 15th, l977 Watchtower, on page 624 where they said, "Since spiritism is condemned by God, it becomes obvious that a person appealing to spiritism for knowledge or help is not appealing to God. He is looking to a source opposed to God..." Not a single, reputable Christian or non-Christian scholar would agree with their distortion of John 1:1, in which they called our Savior "a god". The Watchtower has for their support only other Christ-denying cults, the pagans, and the occult for their view of Christ. They do not have the support of the correctly translated Scriptures for their pagan doctrine on Christ. Jehovah's Witnesses need to select a reputable translation of the Bible and read Colossians 2: 8,9 "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form". All is all, and full is full, and all the fullness of Deity (Godhead, Godship) dwells in Jesus Christ, even in the flesh! We recommend you get our tape "Jehovah's Witnesses and the Real Jesus" to set matters straight by the Bible. If Jehovah's Witnesses will prayerfully consider this Scripture and begin an examination of a valid Bible by valid scholars, they will come to realize that they have indeed fallen into the trap warned about in this Scripture. They have fallen captive to "empty deception" according to a "tradition of men". Under the heading of "justified lying" we again turn to the topic of Johannes Greber. After warning against him in l956, they quoted and followed his teachings from 1961 onwards. In 1983. only after being cornered with their deception, on page 31 of the April 1st, l983 Watchtower they denied they knew what they were doing! They promised not to quote him anymore, but they left intact his demonic, pagan doctrines on Christ, not only concerning Christ's person, but also the resurrection of our Lord. Jehovah's Witnesses, do you know that your false doctrine on Christ's resurrection comes directly from demonic sources? Jesus did not have his body dissolved into gases, and then materialize a fake body complete with fake nail prints to fool His disciples into believing it was really Him risen from the dead! Let's just take a moment to correct J.W. doctrine from the Scriptures. Luke 24: 36-46 clearly states, "And while they were telling these things, He Himself stood in their midst. But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See My hands and my feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." (And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.) And while they still could not believe it for joy and were marveling, He said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?" And they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; and He took it and ate it in their sight. Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled". Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and He said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and rise again from the dead the third day". Jesus Christ rose bodily, appeared to his followers. It was really Him, and we live because He lives! |
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