The lord that you do not know "say's he is my judge-So who are you, and who gave you any authority to make you judge?

Jozzy4:


What! See rotten speech coming out from a so - called christian.

You need serious help. *sighs*

Lie Lie captivator




more lies from false jw:







more truth on the sect that is called jehovahs' witnesses at these sites:

http://jwfacts.com/

https://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/jehovahs-witnesses-answered.htm

brocab:
The lord that you do not know "say's he is my judge-So who are you, and who gave you any authority to make you judge?

hypocrite, and you could judge someone of watching indecency , isnt it ? I wont be suprised if thats what u indulge in.

brocab:
Is the word of God deceiving you, because I write what the word had said, and you believe I am deceiving myself?
No you are deceiving yourself. Did you know not even the disciples, argued against the word of God, as much as you argued against it.

the scriptural point is clear, so this noise is uncalled for

solite3:
i don't understand your rant, I never told you those manuscripts were wrong

did I say you said so?

I only emphasized that if those manuscripts were not the original and also many of those manuscripts do not even contain some chapters in revelations along with missing verses and considering the few number of manuscripts available combined with the history surrounding the canonisation of the book of revelation in general any sane person would not raise accusation as you are doing.It's like saying everybody in Nigeria are black only because Mr A, B, C are black. Scholars are only speaking base on the so called best available manuscripts we have today.

1.manuscripts where not original: does it proof that the words "Alpha and omega" should be in rev 1:11? no
is the Textus Receptus sourced from the original?no

2. manuscripts that do not contain some chapters: do you look for rev 1:11 in manuscripts that do not contain it? No, you look for it in manuscripts that contain it!
are there manuscripts that contain rev 1: 11? yes
are there issues with that verse in manuscripts that contain rev 1:11? no!

3. availability of manuscripts: this is very funny, does the fact that there are few manuscripts available mean they are not accurate? no
in the older manuscripts, do the ones available have issues as regards revelation 1:11? no
do they have the words "Alpha and omega"? no .

another funny thing about these is that you use non availability of manuscripts as a reason for not agreeing with the older manuscripts, but lesser manuscripts where available when the Textus Receptus you accepted where compiled!

4. history of cannonization: you claimed there where issues with cannonization but you refused to tell us what the issues where, I do not think the issues affected rev 1:11 or does it?

again you have only tried to discredit the older manuscripts ,but you have failed to tell us where the testus Receptus got its source of rev 1:11 from?


your questions are still pending:

Jesus has a God, yes or no,?
Jesus is subjected to that God , yes or no
if Jesus has a God, how can He then be almighty God ?


2. on April 27 jEphz
"for those saying Jesus is God.. pls. explain these Scripture for me ... Ephesians 5:1,2 1timothy 2:5 John 8:42 Act 2:22 Hebrews 12:2...... "

3. April 29
" the God of our Lord Jesus Christ " Eph 1:17, who is the God of Jesus Christ ?

4. "You say Jesus is still a man in heaven, you also say Jesus has a God when he was a man.
NOW DOES Jesus STILL HAVE A GOD IN HEAVEN?"

who anointed Jesus? who is that person to Jesus?
you can see that the questions are numbered, so dnt muddle it up , or give part response

solite3, pls respond to these post if you can( it was posted on may 28, 1: 17pm)

[b]I've read your posts, I've even quoted them, unlike you who had abandoned some of my recent posts to you cus it contains questions you dnt want to answer.
I've told you and repeated it over and over again, there are no issues with Revelation 1:11 in manuscripts containing that verse!. because of these, you have decided to generalize the issue under discussion, expanding the discussion to include the whole book of Revelation, when all we are discussing is just a single verse!
that you cannot find flaws with the manuscripts redering of rev: 11 makes it imperative to believe that the Textus Receptus added those words "Alpha and omega" when it was compiling itself hundreds of years later. You could not even provide the source of the words added to that verse by the Textus Receptus!
I've given you 4 facts about that verse now, you could not disprove any.
You refuse to accept the words of that verse as recorded in the older and more reliable manuscripts, claimING the book of revelation had flaws. but you accept the verse in the test us Receptus , even when scholars and even it's own author agree that it had flaws. you assume this double standards just to protect a false doctrine.
The first verse of Revelation had set a precedent for you to use to examine the whole book, it tells you that "God gave Jesus" the revelation , God did not give himself, Jesus did not give himself, it was God who have Jesus the Revelation. God ( in the book of revelation)and Jesus are not the same person!
verse 4-6 also clears who is who in the Book of revaluation, it helps us to understand that the one who is, who was, and who is coming is different from Jesus Christ.
brocab says it's Jesus, you say it's the father, yet you refuse to discuss and tell the whole world who is right and who is wrong!
to make sure that you dnt confuse yourself on who the al mighty God is, Jesus told you severaly in that book that he has a God! , using the words " my God " several times in that book. I ve several times asked if the almighty can have a god superior to him, cus Jesus had now indicated when he was in heaven, when he came to earth, and when he back in heaven that he has a God! he did not just call that God "a God ", he said "my God", "your god" , "the only true god".
All this facts are presented to you in the Book of Revelation, you could not discuss any of them, but you choose to believe a verse from the Textus Receptus that you can't defend, that you can't show where the Textus Receptus got it from! that majority of scholars have shown to be spurious, that can't be found even in translations of the authors that surpport trinity.
lastly, even if you would not answer the questions being posted to you several times , pls van you tell us the name of your church or organization you associate with at the moment?[/b]

brocab:
Solite3, dolphinheart always twist the words around, its only because he is loosing the battle against Christ.
Listen Dolphinheart sits at home everyday, kicking himself over the loneliness he lives, His twists the words we speak only because his spare time is over the top 'he watchers porn all through the night. This is why none what he writes makes any sense.

you have now added defamation of character to your traits, continu!

but meanwhile , these are the issues at hand:

brocab:
Like always nothing you say makes any sense.
It really doesn't matter, the point is you had written it' for the public to see, calling yourself a lair ,you trying to deny it.

WRITTEN WHAAAT? pls point to what I've written and post it, anytime I say you said something, I endeavor to direct you to wheee and when you said it, so pls direct me and others to where I said " God and the Word is a two headed god"?

bunch of liars!

Johnw74 had brought it back to your attention, this proves you don't even believe the truth in Christ.
None of you JW's do.

Brought what back to my attention, I know you desperately want him to bring those words he accused me of saying out, it pains you that he could not, hence you have to find alternatives!

We on the other hand have given the JW's scriptures from the bible, and all you have done is rebuked them all, you are denying these scriptures even exist.
Without you knowing you are really making a mockery of your organization, and what it means to become a Jehovah witness.
Myself if I was searching for the truth, and I saw the rubbish you JW's write on this page, it would turn me away from that truth.
And what is funny you are actually denying the word of God to those who are even reading this page.

1. You gave scriptures that do not say what you are trying to tell us they mean, when you gave those scriptures , I told you what they mean, using other scriptures to explain them, I did not run away from those scriptures and I did not rebuke them.

2. When I explain these scriptures to you, once you see the truth of it, all you do is try and change the topic or refuse to reply, most times I had to repeat my post, but you refuse to respond, I'll continue to post those scriptures, questions and request you refuse to respond to

3. I've shown you scriptures telling you about who Jesus is and his relationship to his father, yet you could not respond



issues at hand:
[b]And yet no response from you on the issue you yourself raised?
also up till now , you have not answered these questions
(ill find that post and point it to you)

you have also refused to respond to these questions and scripture:

[b]Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work. 

Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!. 
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.

Examine this questions brocab 1. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth? 
2. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit? 
4. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am" 
5. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit. 
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.

You cannot answer if Jesus is the same person as the father.

brocab , readers will note(again) that you have NOT quoted and explained ANY of the following scriptures :

1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9 
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3 
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9,11 
12. john 14:6 
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7 
16. ps 28:18

And a host of others

Brocab , examine these scripture 
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.

Jesus is Gods only begotten son, Jesus is not God almighty!


YOU HAVE AGAIN ADDED LIES TO YOUR VIEWS.
Lets see if jesus was recognizable to those who knew him:

King James Version
Joh 20:14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS JESUS!

King James Version
Joh 20:15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? SHE SUPPOSING HIM TO BE THE GARGENER, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

I dnt think the disciples would have been able to recognize Jesus more than Mary, she probably would have known jesus from birth, and the picture of jesus in her memory would have been sharper than a 100 mega pixel camera!

but here you are , lying again that Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him!
dnt you think Mary should have been able to recognise jesus instantly if he had been raise in the same body he died in?
* this is a question ill hope you can give us answer to .

Do you notice how jesus appeared to his disciples who had locked the doors, his actions transcends the physical realm, he appeared to them gram!, in a locked rooM!. yet until he showed them death dealing wound marks, that was when they believed they where swing the Lord.

brocab pls tell us
1. DOES SOME ONE FACE CHANGE WHEN HE OR SHE IS RESSURRECTED WITH THE SAME BODY HE OR SHE DIED IN?

2.DOES SOME ONE GETS RESSURRECTED WITH THE WOUND'S OR INJURIES THAT KILLED HIM?
If your assumptions are true, I bet during the ressurection, we will know those whose throut where slit, cus there will still be a gapping hole in there necks. and those whose brains where blown out will have a hole in their head, cus they will be resurrected with that same body!

before, I digress, let's further examine ya lie.
King James Version
Joh 21:4But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: BUT THE DISCIPLES KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS JESUS.

john 21: 12 New International Version
Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord.
even after seing jesus after his resurrecting, after being with jesus for years, they still do not recognize Jesus at first glance. If jesus had been resurrected with the same body he had died in, the disciples will have no doubt, they wunt need to even bother to ask the question that dared not to ask, "who are you".
Jesus had just showed them who he is, it is left for us to understand that they still had issues with jesus physical features, despite knowing that the person inviting theM to a meal is actually jesus.

I for one believe that only spirits do appear and dissappear at will!

spirits can manifest physical bodies of any liking for any particular purpose, the scriptures is awash with such occurrences, they can even use it to have sex sef!


sir do you ever read the scriptures at all.
It says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God!
human body is flesh and blood!
how then do you espect the king of gods kingdom to have flesh and blood while his Co rulers do not!
how do you expect the physical to rule in the spiritual realm.

brocab, Jesus was a spirit before he came to earth, was he not?
how come , you refuse him his spirit nature when he had accomplished the work he was sent to do here on earth?

brocab:
I have asked you nicely and to repeat your so called answers to me, because I don't recall you even writing such a page back to me, who it is in {Revelation 1:8} I am the Alpha and the Omega say's the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is the come the Almighty?
Who is this scripture talking about?

for the benefit of others reading this thread, I'll show brocab again that I indeed explain
rev 1:1,4-8, rev 3: 11 and heb 1:9, and that I added his name so that he would not claim He did not see it(this I will do in subsequent posts)
For months I've asked him to quote and explain some of those scriptures, he vehemently refused to do so!

PLS NOTICE AGAIN IF HE WILL RESPOND TO THE SCRIPTURES AND QUESTIONS FORWARDED TO HIM IN THOSE POSTS

Every eye will see Him coming in the clouds? Tell us your version who this is?

always add scriptures sir, first tell us where you got that from.

If you did write it before then it will be easy for you to repeat your answers, because at this present moment you are making a lair out of yourself on this page.

we will soon know who is lying!

Who is, who was, and who is to come. Show us who is coming-tell us who is the Alpha and the Omega? Tell us who is the beginning and the end, the first and the last?
Fill us in, with your answers-so I and all who chose to listen will see this page.
Show us who said I am the living one, I was dead, and look I am alive forevermore.

like I told you the last time, pls show scripture where you got the above from, and I'll quote it and explain it to you!

MEANWHILE, HE SAID :

But of course who aren't convinced, you believe the Alpha is somebody else. So you have even gone against your own organization, who believe other then what 'you believe.

I asked him :
"you are a liar brocab, tell us, whO did I tell you the Alpha and omega is, and who does the organization tell you it is.?"

HE HAS DECIDED TO RAMBLE RATHER THAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.

HE HAS DECIDED NOT TO RESPOND TO THIS TOO:

"BUT YOU BROCAB, DO NOT KNOW WHO IS, WHO WAS, WHO IS COMING, you claim it is Jesus, and solite3 has said it's the father .
is solite3 right and are you wrong or are you right and he is wrong, pls TELL US.
IS JESUS THE SAME PERSON AS THE FATHER?"

dolphinheart:


did I say you said so?




1.manuscripts where not original: does it proof that the words "Alpha and omega" should be in rev 1:11? no
is the Textus Receptus sourced from the original?no

2. manuscripts that do not contain some chapters: do you look for rev 1:11 in manuscripts that do not contain it? No, you look for it in manuscripts that contain it!
are there manuscripts that contain rev 1: 11? yes
are there issues with that verse in manuscripts that contain rev 1:11? no!

3. availability of manuscripts: this is very funny, does the fact that there are few manuscripts available mean they are not accurate? no
in the older manuscripts, do the ones available have issues as regards revelation 1:11? no
do they have the words "Alpha and omega"? no .

another funny thing about these is that you use non availability of manuscripts as a reason for not agreeing with the older manuscripts, but lesser manuscripts where available when the Textus Receptus you accepted where compiled!

4. history of cannonization: you claimed there where issues with cannonization but you refused to tell us what the issues where, I do not think the issues affected rev 1:11 or does it?

again you have only tried to discredit the older manuscripts ,but you have failed to tell us where the testus Receptus got its source of rev 1:11 from?


your questions are still pending:

Jesus has a God, yes or no,?
Jesus is subjected to that God , yes or no
if Jesus has a God, how can He then be almighty God ?


2. on April 27 jEphz
"for those saying Jesus is God.. pls. explain these Scripture for me ... Ephesians 5:1,2 1timothy 2:5 John 8:42 Act 2:22 Hebrews 12:2...... "

3. April 29
" the God of our Lord Jesus Christ " Eph 1:17, who is the God of Jesus Christ ?

4. "You say Jesus is still a man in heaven, you also say Jesus has a God when he was a man.
NOW DOES Jesus STILL HAVE A GOD IN HEAVEN?"

who anointed Jesus? who is that person to Jesus?
you can see that the questions are numbered, so dnt muddle it up , or give part response

solite3, pls respond to these post if you can( it was posted on may 28, 1: 17pm)

[b]I've read your posts, I've even quoted them, unlike you who had abandoned some of my recent posts to you cus it contains questions you dnt want to answer.
I've told you and repeated it over and over again, there are no issues with Revelation 1:11 in manuscripts containing that verse!. because of these, you have decided to generalize the issue under discussion, expanding the discussion to include the whole book of Revelation, when all we are discussing is just a single verse!
that you cannot find flaws with the manuscripts redering of rev: 11 makes it imperative to believe that the Textus Receptus added those words "Alpha and omega" when it was compiling itself hundreds of years later. You could not even provide the source of the words added to that verse by the Textus Receptus!
I've given you 4 facts about that verse now, you could not disprove any.
You refuse to accept the words of that verse as recorded in the older and more reliable manuscripts, claimING the book of revelation had flaws. but you accept the verse in the test us Receptus , even when scholars and even it's own author agree that it had flaws. you assume this double standards just to protect a false doctrine.
The first verse of Revelation had set a precedent for you to use to examine the whole book, it tells you that "God gave Jesus" the revelation , God did not give himself, Jesus did not give himself, it was God who have Jesus the Revelation. God ( in the book of revelation)and Jesus are not the same person!
verse 4-6 also clears who is who in the Book of revaluation, it helps us to understand that the one who is, who was, and who is coming is different from Jesus Christ.
brocab says it's Jesus, you say it's the father, yet you refuse to discuss and tell the whole world who is right and who is wrong!
to make sure that you dnt confuse yourself on who the al mighty God is, Jesus told you severaly in that book that he has a God! , using the words " my God " several times in that book. I ve several times asked if the almighty can have a god superior to him, cus Jesus had now indicated when he was in heaven, when he came to earth, and when he back in heaven that he has a God! he did not just call that God "a God ", he said "my God", "your god" , "the only true god".
All this facts are presented to you in the Book of Revelation, you could not discuss any of them, but you choose to believe a verse from the Textus Receptus that you can't defend, that you can't show where the Textus Receptus got it from! that majority of scholars have shown to be spurious, that can't be found even in translations of the authors that surpport trinity.
lastly, even if you would not answer the questions being posted to you several times , pls van you tell us the name of your church or organization you associate with at the moment?[/b]

were those supposed older manuscripts even accurate? Scholars use it because that's the best older manuscripts they can find.the textus remains the most invaluable to Christians and scholars prefer not to use it only because they feel it was late. How do you even know alpha and omega was added in the textus? What evidence do you have? please don't give those older manuscripts that had already being proven to be corrupt as evidence except you want me to believe you by faith.

What don't you understand?
We have never denied Jesus has a God, We are simply trying to give you understanding Jesus and His Father and His Father's Spirit are One.
It's you who seem to have a problem understanding something that is so simple to understand. I suppose it must be hard for you to comprehend such knowledge without you accepting Christ fully into your heart, which stops you to become one with Him and God at the same time, teaching you all things concerning His word.
We have shared the word of God to you over and over and still it confuses you to understand any of them.
{John 1:1} is a good example to the divine nature of the 3 divine persons of the Holy trinity, the Father the word {The Son} and the Holy Spirit are of the same one undivided divine essence.
They are of the same one undivided divine substance and nature. Although their are 3 divine persons in the Godhead, there is only one will, and one common energy in the Godhead. The Father the son and the Holy spirit have only one and the same divine will, Not 3.
Therefore their can never be conflict of wills within the Godhead. None of the 3 divine persons ever act separately from the other 2.
They are One God not 3 God's, Christ said I and My Father are One {John 10:30}
We can all see the differences we have 'when dealing in this subject with the JW's they believe their are two God's Jesus and the Father are two separate God's.
But the word say's, There is only one source in the Godhead, God the Father, He is the only unoriginated Origin in the Godhead, God the son is begotten by God the Father. God the Holy Spirit proceed by God the Father.
Each of the 3 divine persons of the triune God dwells and exist in the other 2, without confusion or separation: Jesus said to Him, Have I been with you so long and yet you not known Me Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say; show us the Father? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words that I speak to you, I do not speak on My own authority , but the Father who dwells in Me, does the works {John 14:9-10}
God is a being of absolute divine Love, Love is the very mode of God's triune being as a unity. The unceasing mutual perfect infinite divine love characterizes the personal divine relations of the 3 divine persons of the Holy trinity. The human desire for love reflects His divine reality.
God is love" {1 John 4:8}
It must be difficult for you to try and work this out in your own head, if solite3 said it's the Father and I say it's Jesus, then it's divine. We have both correctly answered the question rightly. Now you answer {Revelation}

dolphinheart:


for the benefit of others reading this thread, I'll show brocab again that I indeed explain
rev 1:1,4-8, rev 3: 11 and heb 1:9, and that I added his name so that he would not claim He did not see it(this I will do in subsequent posts)
For months I've asked him to quote and explain some of those scriptures, he vehemently refused to do so!

PLS NOTICE AGAIN IF HE WILL RESPOND TO THE SCRIPTURES AND QUESTIONS FORWARDED TO HIM IN THOSE POSTS



always add scriptures sir, first tell us where you got that from.



we will soon know who is lying!


like I told you the last time, pls show scripture where you got the above from, and I'll quote it and explain it to you!

MEANWHILE, HE SAID :


I asked him :
"you are a liar brocab, tell us, whO did I tell you the Alpha and omega is, and who does the organization tell you it is.?"

HE HAS DECIDED TO RAMBLE RATHER THAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.

HE HAS DECIDED NOT TO RESPOND TO THIS TOO:

"BUT YOU BROCAB, DO NOT KNOW WHO IS, WHO WAS, WHO IS COMING, you claim it is Jesus, and solite3 has said it's the father .
is solite3 right and are you wrong or are you right and he is wrong, pls TELL US.
IS JESUS THE SAME PERSON AS THE FATHER?"

CAPTIVATOR:
Trust me, u guys are kids ... None of u can debate the bible with a Jehovah Witness, cos witnesses are trained by Jehovah God himself.

the worst u can do is dig up events that happen before u are formed in the womb, at a period clearly different from now. even with thag Jehovahs Witnesses are progressing.

let me introduce you to the Live Jw Broadcasting channel TV.Jw.org and the best website ever Jw.org , accessible in over 500 languages of the world.

hahahahahahah what a bunch of nonsense, what do any of you know? You think knowing the bible is pointing out where you think mistakes are? Yeah right. I have never met any Jw who has an indebt knowledge into scripture, from the so called matured to the babes. If you did you could clearly see your foolish errors. Oo foolish Jw's how are you deceived and used by satan to send many people to hell. I pity you. How can you have an indebt into scripture when you don't even have and believe in the infilling of the Holy Spirit. When you don't even believe God can dwell in us. Repent Repent Repent!

goodnews201668:



One God?
Yet one is giving the other authority?
Na waoo, by the way john 1:1 didn't say they are one God.
John 1:1King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word,and[b][/b] the Word was with God[b][/b], and the Word was God.

Two different persons, the word was with God. Can he be with God and still be the same God?

you speak like a novice, if you have nothing to say just keep quiet. Didn't you read "and the word was God"? So what kind of useless question are you trying to ask? Go and ask the writer why he said the word was with God and the word was God. And see your stupidity, if am assuming you are a Jehovah witness then why did you not use your translation and the word was a god?

Am I going to receive an honest answer this time, or do you once again return my asking with more abuse from your dirty mouth you and your family of JW's .com.au
How many times have we answered your questions time and time again. And still it doesn't sink into your spirits.
Without having any understanding about the divine nature Jesus has with His Father, makes life a little difficult between both parties.
The time I wake up and start reading your page and the time I finish reading your page, its bed time.
Most people would allow the other to have a say when one addresses a question or two. But not you? You come across very abusive and cast the first stones against us, not given us time to seek after your demands of questioning. ARE YOU A POLICEMAN? Even if you are? Still your way of questioning isn't working.
One would think? It takes you all night to write them, then at least try and explain to us' what your means are when addressing your questions.
-Not expect us to answer the 101 questions every night at one time without you addressing your questioning.
{Matthew 7:9} Which of you, if your Son asks for bread, will give him a stone?

dolphinheart:


you have now added defamation of character to your traits, continu!

but meanwhile , these are the issues at hand:


WRITTEN WHAAAT? pls point to what I've written and post it, anytime I say you said something, I endeavor to direct you to wheee and when you said it, so pls direct me and others to where I said " God and the Word is a two headed god"?

bunch of liars!


Brought what back to my attention, I know you desperately want him to bring those words he accused me of saying out, it pains you that he could not, hence you have to find alternatives!



1. You gave scriptures that do not say what you are trying to tell us they mean, when you gave those scriptures , I told you what they mean, using other scriptures to explain them, I did not run away from those scriptures and I did not rebuke them.

2. When I explain these scriptures to you, once you see the truth of it, all you do is try and change the topic or refuse to reply, most times I had to repeat my post, but you refuse to respond, I'll continue to post those scriptures, questions and request you refuse to respond to

3. I've shown you scriptures telling you about who Jesus is and his relationship to his father, yet you could not respond



issues at hand:
[b]And yet no response from you on the issue you yourself raised?
also up till now , you have not answered these questions
(ill find that post and point it to you)

you have also refused to respond to these questions and scripture:

[b]Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work. 

Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!. 
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.

Examine this questions brocab 1. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth? 
2. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit? 
4. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am" 
5. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit. 
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.

You cannot answer if Jesus is the same person as the father.

brocab , readers will note(again) that you have NOT quoted and explained ANY of the following scriptures :

1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9 
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3 
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9,11 
12. john 14:6 
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7 
16. ps 28:18

And a host of others

Brocab , examine these scripture 
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.

Jesus is Gods only begotten son, Jesus is not God almighty!


YOU HAVE AGAIN ADDED LIES TO YOUR VIEWS.
Lets see if jesus was recognizable to those who knew him:

King James Version
Joh 20:14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS JESUS!

King James Version
Joh 20:15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? SHE SUPPOSING HIM TO BE THE GARGENER, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

I dnt think the disciples would have been able to recognize Jesus more than Mary, she probably would have known jesus from birth, and the picture of jesus in her memory would have been sharper than a 100 mega pixel camera!

but here you are , lying again that Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him!
dnt you think Mary should have been able to recognise jesus instantly if he had been raise in the same body he died in?
* this is a question ill hope you can give us answer to .

Do you notice how jesus appeared to his disciples who had locked the doors, his actions transcends the physical realm, he appeared to them gram!, in a locked rooM!. yet until he showed them death dealing wound marks, that was when they believed they where swing the Lord.

brocab pls tell us
1. DOES SOME ONE FACE CHANGE WHEN HE OR SHE IS RESSURRECTED WITH THE SAME BODY HE OR SHE DIED IN?

2.DOES SOME ONE GETS RESSURRECTED WITH THE WOUND'S OR INJURIES THAT KILLED HIM?
If your assumptions are true, I bet during the ressurection, we will know those whose throut where slit, cus there will still be a gapping hole in there necks. and those whose brains where blown out will have a hole in their head, cus they will be resurrected with that same body!

before, I digress, let's further examine ya lie.
King James Version
Joh 21:4But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: BUT THE DISCIPLES KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS JESUS.

john 21: 12 New International Version
Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord.
even after seing jesus after his resurrecting, after being with jesus for years, they still do not recognize Jesus at first glance. If jesus had been resurrected with the same body he had died in, the disciples will have no doubt, they wunt need to even bother to ask the question that dared not to ask, "who are you".
Jesus had just showed them who he is, it is left for us to understand that they still had issues with jesus physical features, despite knowing that the person inviting theM to a meal is actually jesus.

I for one believe that only spirits do appear and dissappear at will!

spirits can manifest physical bodies of any liking for any particular purpose, the scriptures is awash with such occurrences, they can even use it to have sex sef!


sir do you ever read the scriptures at all.
It says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God!
human body is flesh and blood!
how then do you espect the king of gods kingdom to have flesh and blood while his Co rulers do not!
how do you expect the physical to rule in the spiritual realm.

brocab, Jesus was a spirit before he came to earth, was he not?
how come , you refuse him his spirit nature when he had accomplished the work he was sent to do here on earth?

@ dolphins Enough of the textus receptous argument. You can choose whatever you want to believe, if after all the scriptures presented, you still pesist in unbelief. You will have yourself to blame before God.

zodiakzax:
you speak like a novice, if you have nothing to say just keep quiet. Didn't you read "and the word was God"? So what kind of useless question are you trying to ask? Go and ask the writer why he said the word was with God and the word was God. And see your stupidity, if am assuming you are a Jehovah witness then why did you not use your translation and the word was a god?

I am a novice and a stupid person, yet I know that the Bible doesn't support false doctrines as Trinity. The father is God and father of Jesus, well you guys already said Trinity is a mystery because you are only confused.

1 Peter 1:3

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,” 

King James Version (KJV)
1 Corinthians 11:3

“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the womanis the man; and the head of Christ is God.” 

King James Version (KJV)

zodiakzax:
hahahahahahah what a bunch of nonsense, what do any of you know? You think knowing the bible is pointing out where you think mistakes are? Yeah right. I have never met any Jw who has an indebt knowledge into scripture, from the so called matured to the babes. If you did you could clearly see your foolish errors. Oo foolish Jw's how are you deceived and used by satan to send many people to hell. I pity you. How can you have an indebt into scripture when you don't even have and believe in the infilling of the Holy Spirit. When you don't even believe God can dwell in us. Repent Repent Repent!

Are u done ? now tell me ur point exactly.

brocab:
Don't you just love it, that not all Christians believe in your organization.
You must ask yourself why did the JW's try to change the bible. What were they thinking? The JW's has caused such a problem between other believers who also follow after Christ.
Do we all become a JW? because the JW's believe other religions are wrong, and the stories written about Christ is wrong also-look at Jesus and His disciples, the stories about them turned the world upside down..
The JW's believe the bible was written under a lie, and the true bible scholars were JW's who came into this world centuries later, to rewrite the truth who Jesus really is, He is the archangel Michael who came to earth to save us sinners.
And Jesus's true disciples were Jehovah witnesses who are the 144,000 who were sent to earth, to clean up this mess the world had made, and their job is correct the truth about GOD.
And even {John 1:1} had frighten the JW's because its a lie from the beginning? In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. And the JW's believe the word was a god, Not the word was God.

Who told you all Christians hate JWs? Is false teachers like you that hate them because they expose you guys. And you incite people to hate them just as u are doing here by twisting whatever they say and spread hateful and false rumors against them. The word was a God, does it make him equal to his father creator and God?

@ brocab, and for others to see and examine.

I started my explanations of rev 1:7,8 with the words below.
(pls note that the green coloured words are for explanations and to show that I indeed did put brocads name their so that he could not claim that he did not see it.)

THE WORDS BELOW WHERE POSTED ON MAY 21, 12:32 PM AND CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 59 OF THESE THREAD)

"NOW LETS LOOK AT REV 1:7,8

brocab and solite3, I told you that to understand rev 1:7,8 better, one must first quote and understand what rev 1: 1,4-6 says, thus I requested for the past 20 pages that you quote and explain those verses, I also added heb 1:9 And rev 3:2,12 to it.
sincerely, I thought I would eventually be given an explanation in just I straight post, no one comes to an exam hall, answer part of the questions and expect to be allowed to come part the next day to answer other parts I thought. but that is exactly what brocab and solite3 tried to do.

WHenever the question was repeated to them, they will only answer snippets of it. They sometimes quote the verses and refuse to explain them or tried to give an explanation without quoting those verses. They scattered their answers into many posts so that it will seem that they had answered all , which they tried to claim anyway.

now I will give a detailed explanation of these verses , surpport it with other verses of the scriptures . After these ill ask brocab and solite3 a series of questions which readers will observe and notice to see if they will answer it or not.
I'll not respond to quotes until I finish my explanations
my next post will start with rev 1:1
.............................................................

THIS NEXT POST, WHICH IS A CONTINUATION OF THE PREVIOUS POST WAS POSTED ON MAY 21, 1:18 PM, IT CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 59 IN THIS THREAD

" rev 1:1
The revelation of Jesus Christ,WHICH GOD GAVE HIM to show to his servants a the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant b John,

WHAT DOES THESE VERSE TELL US(pls brocab and solite3, you can disprove the following facts if you want to , but pls notice they are numbered, therefore if you want to challenge any of them, just signify first the number you have issues with, if this is not done, them it's shows that you aim is just to disrupt the facts given and not to counter, correct or disprove it)

it tells us that:
1. The revelation comes from God and was given to Jesus
2. "God " in these verse and "Jesus" in these verse are not the same person
3. God here is different from Jesus
4. It was God that wants jesus to show his servants the things that must shortly take place
5. Jesus now made the revelation from God known through his angel to his servant John
6. thereforE the revelation involved 4 persons , God, Jesus , the angel and John.

do we have other scriptures to surpport rev 1:1 and the explanation giving about it?
daniel w:28 English Standard Version
but there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries, and he has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will be in the latter days. Your dream and the visions of your head as you lay in bed are these:

NOW WHO IS THAT GOD ?
King James Version
Am 3:7Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets

Now we all know that the kjv removed the name of God from that verse , so in other to know the name if the God that reveals his secrets to his servants , I'll have to quote from another transLation that did not remove gods name from that verse

American Standard Version
Surely the Lord Jehovah will do nothing, except he reveal his secret unto his servants the prophets.

New World Translation
For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing Unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets.

NOW THESE QUESTIONS GOES TO YOU BROCAB AND SOLITE3
1. do you agree with all or some of the numbered points on rev 1:1?
2. do you agree that the name of the God who reveal secrets is Jehovah ?
3. do you agree that the God in rev 1:1, who gave the Revelation to jesus is Jehovah?

READERS SHOULD NOTE , IF THEY RESPOND TO THESE SCRIPTURES AND TO THE QUESTIONS ASKED WHEN THEY QUOTE THESE POST.
READERS SHOULD ALSO NOTE IFATHER THEY ATTEMPT TO CUT OF PART OF THESE POST WHEN THEY RESPOND.
now ill move to rev 1:4 "

......................................................................


THE NEXT POST, WHICH IS A CONTINUATION OF THE PREVIOUS POST WAS POSTED ON MAY 21, 2:31 PM, IT CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 59 IN THIS THREAD

[b] rev 1:4(ESV) John to the seven churches that are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne

actually, I'm supposed to quote from verse 4-6, I'll do that next, but I specifically quoted verse 4, just to bring out some interesting things said by brocaband solite3 on these verse.

WHAT DO WE LEARN FROM THESE VERSE?( brocab and solite3 can respond if what I learned are wrong .
1. John was sending his greeting from (1) the one who is, and who was, and who is to come ( the identity of these one will be revealed later ) and (2) the seven spirits
2. The greetings are from two distinct sources , the one who is, who was, and who is to come, is not the same person as the seven spirits who are before His throne.

NOW LETS SEE SOME OF BROCABS AND SOLITE3 POSTS CONNECT ING THESE VERSE
*readers can cross check if I quoted them correctly or wrongly

take note of part of what brocab said on April 22, 11:54pm(this can be found on page 40 of these thread

It is Jesus who was, who is, and who is coming, it is Jesus who has the name the Alpha and the Omega. But it shows the scholars had taken Jesus's name out of text and replaced it with Jehovah God.

part of what brocab said oh april 30, 3:41am( this can be found on page 40 of these thread)

{4} John" to be the seven assemblies {Churches} that are in Asia; Grace to you and Peace, from Him {Jesus} who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne;

part of what brocab said on may 8 , 10:26pm(this can be found on page 41)

YOU DENY THE WORD OF GOD BY YOUR OWN ACTIONS, DENYING "WHO IS, "WHO WAS, AND "WHO IS TO COME, DENYING CHRIST IS CHRIST WAS AND CHRIST IS TO COME

Now see what solite3 said on may 6 9:55.(This can be found on page 45)

churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which was, and which is to come(referring to The father);and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne( referring to the Holy Spirit)
vs5 And from Jesus Christ,who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the faithful witness,and the first begotten of the of the dead,.....

[color=green]brocab and solite3, who should we now believe between the two of you[/color]
brocab: the one who is, who was and who is to come is jesus
solite3: the one who is, who was and who is to come refers to the father.

This brings about the question(PLS EVERYONE SHOULD OBSERVE IF [color= green]BROCAB AND SOLITE3 WILL ANSWER THESE[/color])
1. is jesus the same person as the father?
2. If not , how can both now be the one who is, who was and who is coming?

while we wait for these answers, I'll move on to quote and explain my views on rev 1:4-6

READERS SHOULD NOTE THAT SO FAR , IVE MENTIONED BROCAB MORE THAN TEN TIMES! IN THESE THREE POSTS, YET HE COULD NOT RECALL!
WILL CONTINUE WITH IT'S OTHERS PARTS SHORTLY.........

@ brocab, and for others to examine.
MY EXPLAINATIONS CONTINUED WITH THE WORDS BELOW, THIS WAS POSTED ON MAY 21, 3:48 PM AND CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 60 OF THESE THREAD


rev 1:4-6 ESV
John to the seven churches that are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace [/u]FROM HIM[/u] who is and who was and who is to come, AND FROM the seven spirits who are before his throne, 5 AND FROM Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood 6 and made us a kingdom, PRIESTS TO HIS GOD AND FATHER, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen

WHAT DOES THESE VERSES TEACH US
1. These verses teaches us that the greetings by John to the seven congregations came from three dinstinct and different sources, first one was from the one who is, who was and who is to come, second one is from the seven spirit's which solite3 claim to be the holy spirit, thiRd greeting was from Jesus Christ.

2. The first greeting was from HIM , who the verse decribes as who is who was and who is to come(solite3 said this is the father).

3. The second greeting are from the seven Spirits( solite3 said these is the holy spirit)

4. The third is from Jesus who John calls the FAITHFUL WITNESS, THE FIRSTBORN OF THE DEAD.

5. John makes an important statement , he saY's that Jesus had made us a kingdom, PRIESTS TO HIS GOD AND FATHER.

6. From 5 above we learn that Jesus did not only claim that the father is God, like some will like to believe, he claimed that the Father is HIS GOD? EVEN RIGHT THERE IN HEAVEN!
(The scriptures is awash with facts to support these claims , I shall quote most as we go along)

7. from the greeting of John and from his statements regarding jesus. It is evident that :
a) jesus is not the God mentioned is verse 1
b)jesus has a God in heaven
c)jesus is not HIM who gave the first greeting , the one described as who is who was and who is to come(which solite3 refers to as the father). john specifically describes who the greetings where from!
d)jesus is not the almighty God as he had said, with John reiteratING that Jesus has A GOD!( note this is very much different from calling someone God, like some like to use as a defense to jesus and John's statements)

(color=blue] pls note all these points if when we are examining rev 1:7,8[/color])

do we have scriptures that surpport these explanations? yes

1. [b] rev 1:8 English Standard Version
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
NWT
Re 1:8“I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”

2.rev 4:8 English Standard Version
And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all around and within, and day and night they never cease to say, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!”
NWT
As for the four living creatures, each one of them had six wings; they were full of eyes all around and underneath. And continuously, day and night, they say: “Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is coming.”
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Each one of these four beasts stood and had from its appendages and over it six surrounding wings, and from within they are full of eyes and are not silent day or night, saying, “Holy, holy, holy, LORD JEHOVAH God Almighty.”
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Saying, “We thank you, LORD JEHOVAH God Almighty, who is and has been, for you have taken your great power and you have reigned.”

3. Re 3:14“To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:

4 Joh 15:9Just as the Father has loved me, so I have loved you; remain in my love.

5. King James Version
Joh 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.[/b]

Now my question to brocab and solite3
1. does jesus have a god?
2. who is the God of jesus?
3. can the almighty God have a god superior to him?

*readers should notice if they answer these questions or respond to the scriptures quoted.

now in my next post ill move on to another part of the question, which is quoting and explaining heb 1: 9

..............................................
THIS NEXT POST IS A CONTINUATION OF THE PREVIOUS ONE , IT WAS POSTED ON MAY 21, 6:03PM AND CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 60 OF THESE THREAD.


[b]heb 1:9( English Standard Version)
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; [color=blue]THEREFORE GOD, YOU GOD, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your COMPANNIONS.”

WHAT DO WE LEARN FROM THESE SCRIPTURE.
1. Jesus has a God who is superior to him, who is his God .
2. This God is now suppor ting jesus statements indicating he has a God , this God now states that he is the God of jesus
3. It is this God who anointed jesus and exalted him above his companions.
4. the reason for such anointing is because and not limited to the fact that Jesus loved righteousness and hated wickedness.

ARE THEIR SCRIPTURES TO SURPPORT THESE VIEWS ? YES

[b]Isa 61:1The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me, Because Jehovah anointed me to declare good news to the meek. He sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And the wide opening of the eyes to the prisoners,

Lu 3:21, 22Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus too was baptized. As he was praying, the heaven was opened up,
22and the holy spirit in bodily form like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: [color]“You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.”[/color]

Lu 4:18“Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free,

now the question to solite3 and brocab is
1. who is the God of jesus that anointed jesus

* pls note if there is a response to the scriptures quoted, and the questions asked.

I'll now move to the last part of the question which asked " who was talking in rev 3:3,12

..........................................................

THIS POST WAS MADE ON MAY 21, 8:37 PM, IT CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 60 OF THIS THREAD

[b]rev 3:2,12 ESV
Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of MY GOD.
12. The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of MY GOD , the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and MY OWN NEW NAME.

WHAT DO WE LEARN FROM THESE VERSE
1. Jesus keeps repeating the fact that he has a God .
2 . He made this statement while he had gone back to heaven as a spirit creature
3. This means that even in heaven, Jesus still states that he has a God !
4. He calls his God "my God "
5. Jesus also has a new name

my question to solite3 and brocab
1. do you now agree that in heaven jesus still has a God ?
2. do you know the God Jesus called "my god"?

now ill add all this evidence together and conclude by examinING rev 1:7,8
.....................................

THIS POST WAS ON MAY 21, 10:42 PM , IT CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 61 OF THESE THREAD


COMPILATION:

From rev 1:1, we learnt that
1. The revelation comes from God and was given to Jesus
2. "God " in these verse and "Jesus" in these verse are not the same person
3. God here is different from Jesus
4. It was God that wants Jesus to show his servants the things that must shortly take place
5. Jesus now made the revelation from God known through his angel to his servant John
6. thereforE the revelation involved 4 persons , God, Jesus , the angel and John.

From rev 1:4-6 we learnt that
1. John was sending his greeting from (1) the one who is, and who was, and who is to come ( the identity of these one will be revealed later ) and (2) the seven spirits
2. The greetings are from two distinct sources , the one who is, who was, and who is to come, is not the same person as the seven spirits who are before His throne.

We also learnt that
1. These verses teaches us that the greetings by John to the seven congregations came from three dinstinct and different sources, first one was from the one who is, who was and who is to come, second one is from the seven spirit's which solite3 claim to be the holy spirit, thiRd greeting was from Jesus Christ.
2. The first greeting was from HIM , who the verse decribes as who is who was and who is to come(solite3 said this is the father).
3. The second greeting are from the seven Spirits( solite3 said these is the holy spirit)
4. The third is from Jesus who John calls the FAITHFUL WITNESS, THE FIRSTBORN OF THE DEAD.
5. John makes an important statement , he saY's that Jesus had made us a kingdom, PRIESTS TO HIS GOD AND FATHER.
6. From 5 above we learn that Jesus did not only claim that the father is God, like some will like to believe, he claimed that the Father is HIS GOD? EVEN RIGHT THERE IN HEAVEN!
(The scriptures is awash with facts to support these claims , I shall quote most as we go along)
7. from the greeting of John and from his statements regarding Jesus. It is evident that :
a) Jesus is not the God mentioned is verse 1
b)Jesus has a God in heaven
c)Jesus is not HIM who gave the first greeting , the one described as who is who was and who is to come(which solite3 refers to as the father). john specifically describes who the greetings where from!
d)Jesus is not the almighty God as he had said, with John reiteratING that Jesus has A GOD!( note this is very much different from calling someone God, like some like to use as a defense to Jesus and John's statements)

From heb 1:9
1. Jesus has a God who is superior to him, who is his God .
2. This God is now suppor ting Jesus statements indicating he has a God , this God now states that he is the God of Jesus
3. It is this God who anointed Jesus and exalted him above his companions.
4. the reason for such anointing is because and not limited to the fact that Jesus loved righteousness and hated wickedness.

from rev 3:2,12 we learnt that 1. Jesus keeps repeating the fact that he has a God .
2 . He made this statement while he had gone back to heaven as a spirit creature
3. This means that even in heaven, Jesus still states that he has a God !
4. He calls his God "my God "
5. Jesus also has a new name

NOW TO REV 1:7
Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.
the identity of the one who is coming is easily identified as jesus , he was the one who was pierced when he was on earth, and who went to heaven in the clouds.

This coming refers to Jesus’ appearing in the future to reward the just and punish the wicked

People will not see him with their literal eyes. Since his ascension to heaven, Jesus is a spirit person “who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see.”— .
1 ti 6:16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen

Jesus does not need to take on a human form to be “seen” by the inhabitants of the earth any more than Jehovah needed to do so when he brought the Ten Plagues on the Egyptians in the days of Moses. The people of that time had no doubt that Jehovah was causing the plagues, and they were forced to recognize his power. In a similar way, when Christ takes action as God’s Executioner, the wicked will be forced to “see,” or perceive, that Jesus is being used by God to judge them. They will know this because mankind will have been warned in advance. Yes, “every eye will see [Jesus], and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him

rev 1:8
ESV
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
I am The Alap and The Tau, says THE LORD JEHOVAH God, he who is and has been and is coming, The Almighty.
NWT
.8“I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”

Considering all the things learnt from rev1:1,4-6 , heb 1:9, and rev 3:2,12, it is very clear that these verse is not reffering to jesus, why?
because jesus cannot be the Almighty God, the almighty God does not have a God who is superior to him!
also from those points, we know that Jesus is not the who is ,who was and who is to come as John's greetings has seperated jesus from that person.
Therefore the verse is right to say that jehovah is the person that verse is referring to.

ALPHA AND OMEGA
While many people apply this title both to God and to Christ, a more careful examination of its use restricts its application to Jehovah God.
The first verse of Revelation which i had explained shows that the revelation was given originally by God and through Jesus Christ, hence the one speaking (through an angelic representative) at times is God himself, and at other times it is Christ Jesus.


Thus at rev 1:8 it is Jehovah who is talking cus it's only jehovah that is the almighty God. Although the preceding verse speaks of Christ Jesus, it is clear that in the application of the title is to “the Almighty” God.

The title occurs again at rev 21:6
English Standard Version
And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment.
The following verse identifies the speaker by saying: “Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son.” ReV 21:7

Inasmuch as Jesus referred to those who are joint heirs with him in his Kingdom as “brothers,” not “sons,” the speaker must be Jesus’ heavenly Father, Jehovah God.
matt 25:40 English Standard Version
And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

heb 2:10-12 (ESV)
10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering.
11 For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers,
12 saying, “I will tell of your name to my brothers;
in the midst of the congregation I will sing your praise.”

2Co 6:18“‘And I will become a father to you, and you will become sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah, the Almighty.”

The final occurrence of the title is at rev 22:13, which states: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation; verse 8 and 9 show that the angel spoke to John, verse 16 obviously applies to Jesus, the first part of verse 17 is credited to “the spirit and the bride,” and the one speaking in the latter part of verse 20 is manifestly John himself.
“The Alpha and the Omega” of verse 12-15 , therefore, may properly be identified as the same one who bears the title in the other two occurrences: Jehovah God.

The expression, “Look! I am coming quickly,” in verse 12, does not require that these aforementioned verses apply to Jesus, inasmuch as God also speaks of himself as “coming” to execute judgment.

Isa 26:21For look! Jehovah is coming from his place To call the inhabitants of the land to account for their error, And the land will expose her bloodshed And will no longer cover over her slain.”

mal 3: 1-6 speaks of a joint coming for judgment on the part of Jehovah and his “messenger of the covenant.”
[b] look! I am sending my messenger, and he will clear up a way before me. And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant will come, in whom you take delight. Look! He will certainly come,” says Jehovah of armies.
2. “But who will endure the day of his coming, and who will be able to stand when he appears? For he will be like the fire of a refiner and like the lye of laundrymen.
3. And he will sit as a refiner and cleanser of silver and will cleanse the sons of Leʹvi; and he will clarify them like gold and like silver, and they will certainly become to Jehovah people presenting a gift offering in righteousness.
4. And the gift offering of Judah and of Jerusalem will actually be pleasing to Jehovah, as in the days of long ago and as in the years of antiquity.
5. “I will come near to you for judgment, and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, against the adulterers, against those who take false oaths, against those who defraud the hired worker, the widow, and the fatherless child, and against those who refuse to help the foreigner. These have not feared me,” says Jehovah of armies.
6. “For I am Jehovah; I do not change. And you are sons of Jacob; you have not yet come to your finish[/b]

The title “the Alpha and the Omega” carries the same thought as “the first and the last” and “the beginning and the end” when these terms are used with reference to Jehovah. Before him there was no Almighty God, and there will be none after him. He will bring to a successful conclusion the issue over Godship, forever vindicated as the one and only Almighty God.—
This is what Jehovah says,
The King of Israel and his Repurchaser, Jehovah of armies:
‘I am the first and I am the last.
There is no God but me

my next post will be about jehovah and the almighty God .
.

@ brocab and for others to examine

BELOW IS THE CONCLUDING PART OF MY EXPLANATION, IT WAS POSTED ON MAY 22, 4:20 PM , YOU CAN FIND IT ON PAGE 61 OF THESE THREAD

JEHOVAH, JESUS AND THE ALMIGHTY GOD

WHO IS JEHOVAH ?
David tells us he is the God of isreal.
1 chr 17 :24: May your name endure and be exalted forever, so that people may say, ‘Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, is God to Israel,’ and may the house of your servant David be firmly established before you.
* Jehovah is the God of the isrealites

In Psalms David also said he is the maker of the earth.
Ps 124:8O : ur help is in the name of Jehovah, The Maker of heaven and earth.”

He also said:
Ps 97:9: For you, O Jehovah, are the Most High over all the earth; You are exalted far above all other gods.
* Jehovah is the most high, pls notice these when we look at the most high and jesus

Isaiah said:
Isa 45:18 : For this is what Jehovah says, The Creator of the heavens, the true God, The One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmly established it, Who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited: “I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.
* there are no two jehovahs, no two persons bearing the same name Jehovah, only one person bears that name!

Paul further said:
Ro 3:29: Or is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of people of the nations? Yes, also of people of the nations.

Jehovah himself said he does not change in mal 3:6
and he said in Exodus 6:3( and this time I used the kjv)
King James Version
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
* the name of the ALMIGHTY GOD IS JEHOVAH

Michai said:
1Ki 22:19: Mi·caiʹah then said: “Therefore, hear the word of Jehovah: I saw Jehovah sitting on his throne and all the army of the heavens standing by him, to his right and to his left.

examine this verse carefully
Ex 3:15Then God said once more to Moses: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation.

* for those who propose that Jesus is Jehovah ask yourself this questions
1. did Jesus ever said he is Jehovah?
2. did the disciples ever call jesus jehovah?
3. When the angel came to Mary, was the name Jehovah part of the names he said Jesus will bear?
4. Jehovah said, this is my name forever, this is how I'm to be remembered, have your not thus changed what God wanted by calling him jesus ?

ex 6:6-8
“Therefore, say to the Israelites: ‘I am Jehovah, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians and rescue you from their slavery, and I will reclaim you with an outstretched arm and with great judgments.7And I will take you in as my people, and I will be your God, and you will certainly know that I am Jehovah your God who is bringing you out from under the burdens of Egypt.8And I will bring you into the land that I swore with an oath to give to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; and I will give it to you as something to possess. I am Jehovah.’”

Ex 15:11Who among the gods is like you, O Jehovah? Who is like you, showing yourself mighty in holiness? The One to be feared with songs of praise, the One doing wonders.


The scriptures(below) indicated the Jehovah called himself the father of the isrealites and the isrealites called Jehovah their father.
jer 3:19, jer 31: 9, isa 63: 16, isa 64:8, Deut 32:6, 1 chr 29:10, mal 1: 6, mal 2:10.

There are thousands of scripture verses I could refer to but from the verses posted above, we have learned the following:

1. Jehovah is the almighty God, the name of the almighty God is Jehovah.
2. jehovah is the God of isreal
3. Jehovah is also the God of gentiles who accept him as their God.
4. Jehovah is the creature of the earth.
5. Jehovah is the most high God.
6. Jehovah is the father of the isrealites.
7. jehovah is the one who sits on the throne.
*pls note this facts about Jesus when comparing him to jesus

There are also Scriptural verses about Jehovah as the one sitted on the throne and residing in heaven, you can check it if you are interested.


Now that the scriptures had clarified some things about jehovah let us check what Jesus said about these things to know if Jesus is Jehovah or not.


1. DID JESUS EVER SAY HE IS ALMIGHTY GOD TO SIGNIFY THAT HE IS JEHOVAH?NO!
At no time did Jesus ever say that he is the almighty God, he had several times stated that he is the son of God, and his disciples repeated this truth.

[b]Kjv
Ps 45:7: Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

King James Version
Joh 10:36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Kjv
1 john 4:9,15-
In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
15- Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
* note: god did not send himself , he sent his only begotten Son

King James Version
Joh 5:19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

King James Version
Joh 5:20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
* no one can show the almighty greater works

King James Version
Joh 5:26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath HE GIVEN to the Son to have life in himself;

King James Version
Mr 5:7And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

King James Version
Mt 16:16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

King James Version
Ac 13:33God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

King James Version
Joh 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
*the almighty does not have a God that he calls " my God"[/b]

2 DID JESUS EVER STATE THAT HE IS THE GOD OF ISREAL OR OF GENTILES? NO!

[b]kjv
Joh 5:36: But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me .
*God sent Jesus, the father sent Jesus, the father is God and not Jesus

kjv
Ac 17:30,31 : And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness BY THAT MAN WHO HE HATH ORDAINED; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that HE HATH RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD
* the person who raised and the person who was raised are not the same person, therefore the God mentioned in these verse and Jesus are not the same!

Ac 2:22: “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ was a man publicly shown to you by God through powerful works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.
*The person that did things and the person through whom things are done are not the same person[/b]


4. DID JESUS OR THE SCRIPTURES EVER CALL JESUS THE MOST HIGH, HIGHEST OR MOST HIGH GOD? NO!
Not only did the the scriptures not call jesus the most high god, it went further to tell us many times that jesus has a God, therefore he can't be the most high God !

[b]Joh 20:17.(quoted earlier)

2Co 1:3: Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of tender mercies and the God of all comfort,

* who is the father of tender mercies?
Ex 34:6Jehovah was passing before him and declaring: “Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love and truth,
Ps 86:5For you, O Jehovah, are good and ready to forgive; You abound in loyal love for all those who call on you.
Mic 7:18Who is a God like you, Pardoning error and passing over the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? He will not hold onto his anger forever, For he delights in loyal love.

RoM 15:6: so that unitedly you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Kjv
2Co 11:31: The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

Kjv
Eph 1:3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Kjv
Eph 1:17: That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Kjv
1Pe 1:3: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

kjv
Mr 5:7quoted earlier)

kjv
Lu 1:32: He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
*jesus is not the Lord God![/b]

JESUS AND THE MOST HIGH

Ps 110:1Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”

compare that verse with the apostles statement:
[b]King James Version
Mt 22:44The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
acts 2: 32-34
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
* the LORD is jehovah(name deliberately removed to cause confusion),the other Lord is jesus , a different person from jehovah, sitting at the right hand of Jehovah, by jehovahs command!

acts 7:55,56 kjv
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus STANDING ON THE RIGHT HAND of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

King James Version
Heb 8:1Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the MAJESTY in the heavens;

King James Version
Heb 1:3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, SAT DOWN ON THE RIGHT HAND OF THE MAJESTY ON HIGH[/b]

*Jesus is not the most high
jesus is not the Majesty who he sat at his right hand.


5 DID JESUS CALL HIMSELF THE FATHER OF THE ISREALITES? NO!

[b]kjv
Joh 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

6 DID JESUS CALL HIMSELF THE ONLY TRUE GOD ? NO!
on the contrary he called the father the only true God, as Jesus is not the same person as the father, therefore Jesus is not the only true God.

kjv
Joh 17:1 to 3: These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

7.DID THE SCRIPTURES INDICATE THAT JESUS IS JEHOVAH? NO!

[b]Mic 5: 4
He will stand up and shepherd in the strength of Jehovah, In the superiority of the name of Jehovah his God. And they will dwell in security, For now his greatness will reach the ends of the earth.

8. WAS JESUS SENT BY GOD? yes, God did not send himself!
kjv
Joh 3:2,16,17, 32: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

9. IS JESUS THE ONE SITTING ON THE THRONE?NO!
kjv
Heb 8:1: Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Jehovah is the one who sits on the throne!

brocab and solite3 I've used the scriptures to show you that
1. Jesus is not the God of isreal, therefore Jesus is not Jehovah
2. Jesus is not the almighty God, therefore he is not Jehovah
3. Jesus has a God, therefore he is not the almighty God.
4. Jesus is the son of God , therefore he is not the father, he is not the father of the isrealites , therefore he is not Jehovah.
5. Jesus and the scriptures acknowledge the father to be superior to him, therefore Jesus is not the almighty God and so Jesus is not Jehovah.
6. prophecies that the name Jehovah was mentioned indicated that he is not sending himself as Messiah but sending someone else, showing that the messenger, Jesus is not jehovah
7. Jesus at no point ever said he is God Almighty.

I'll end it with this scripture:
For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

goodnews201668:


I am a novice and a stupid person, yet I know that the Bible doesn't support false doctrines as Trinity. The father is God and father of Jesus, well you guys already said Trinity is a mystery because you are only confused.

1 Peter 1:3

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,” 

King James Version (KJV)
1 Corinthians 11:3

“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the womanis the man; and the head of Christ is God.” 

King James Version (KJV)

you see how childish you are in your thinking? We say Christ is God because He has the same nature as God. In John 14:28 Jesus said "the Father is greater than i" In the first place, the term for "greater" (Greek - meizon) does not necessarily imply one who is greater in nature or essence. It can refer to someone or something being greater in position and/or authority, just as the following passages show:

"I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater (meizon) than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." Matthew 11:11

John being greater than all those born of women does not imply that the rest were less human than John, or that they were inferior to John in nature. Here, the term must mean that John was greater in position and rank.Is God the Father the head of Christ? Of course in position but not Nature. Is the husband head of the woman? Of course in position not in nature. The woman is not a dog is she? Nope, she is human but the man is the head because the woman must submit and the man must rule over her. The same goes for the Son and the Father. They both have the same nature. Humans have one nature, angels have another nature and God has His own nature. So when it says God is the head of Christ doesn't make Christ less inferior in nature to the Father.Am just hoping you understand.

[right]anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
This is in reference to Christ earthly ministry when Christ was anointed with the holy spirit(oil of gladness) without measure everyman that has ever receive the holy spirit was with measure but Christ own was without measure.Just as every man has a God so also Christ as a man has a God. This tells you Christ is a perfect man

[/quote]this was how I answered heb1:9 Mr dolphineheart do you now c that u need God's mercy?[/quote]

Dolphineheart when you asked to quote rev1:4-6

dolphineheart d issue was initially about who rev1:8 is referring to before u referred back to revelation1:4 which of course is not the issue.thats y I ignored it. as for who was speaking in revelation1:8 brocab answered rightly.
since u ve brought revelation1:4-6 let's c what it says
vs4 JOHN to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which was, and which is to come(referring to The father);and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne( referring to the Holy Spirit)
vs5 And from Jesus Christ,who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the faithful witness,and the first begotten of the of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
vs6 And hath made is kings and and priest unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever.Amen.
hope I av addressed it. I will c if u will not refer back to rev1:8( which is the main issue n which had been addressed)

quote author=dolphinheart post=45748256]

JESUS IS A GOD

where did u get this

Isa 9:6For a child has been born to us, A son has been given to us; And the rulership will rest on his shoulder. His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty Godthe Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7To the increase of his rulership And to peace, there will be no end, On the throne of David and on his kingdom In order to establish it firmly and to sustain it Through justice and righteousness, From now on and forever. The zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.

this is enough to prove who Jesus is.

Joh 1:18No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.

Jesus is God

JESUS BEING A GOD, STILL HAS A GOD
Heb 1:9You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, YOUR GOD, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”

The Father called Jesus God why don't you address that.

Lu 3:21, 22Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus too was baptized. As he was praying, the heaven was opened up,
22and the holy spirit in bodily form like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: “You are my Son, the beloved; I HAVE APROVED YOU”

The Son of God is God,just like The Son of Man is Man

Joh 20:17Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father AND TO MY GOD AND YOUR GOD

.

1Co 11:3But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, THE HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD.

Eph 1:17that THE GOD OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him.

Col 1:3We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,

Re 3:12“‘The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.

Jesus is still a man na how many times will u be told.

JESUS IS SUBJECTED AND LOYAL TO THAT GOD
Joh 14:28You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, FOR THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I AM.

Joh 17:3This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Mr 15:34And at the ninth hour, Jesus called out with a loud voice: “Eʹli, Eʹli, laʹma sa·bach·thaʹni?” which means, when translated: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

Re 1:1A revelation by Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE HIM, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John,

Mt 20:23He said to them: “You will indeed drink my cup, but to sit down at my right hand and at my left IS NOT MINE TO GIVE, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”

Joh 8:42Jesus said to them: “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I HAVE NOT COME OF MY OWN INITIATIVE, BUT THAT ONE SENT ME.

1Co 15:24-28Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to HIS GOD AND FATHER, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.
25For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet.
26And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing.
27FOR GOD "SUBJECTED ALL THINGS UNDER HIS FEET.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him.
28But when all things will have been subjected to him, THEN THE SON HIMSELF WILL SUBJECT HIMSELF TO THE ONE WHO SUBJECTED ALL THINGS TO HIM, that God may be all things to everyone.

1Pe 3:22He is at God’s right hand, for he went to heaven, and angels and authorities and powers WERE MADE SUBJECT TO HIM.

HOPING YOU WORLD BE ABLE TO QUOTE AND EXPLAIN SOME, IF NOT ALL OF THE SCRIPTURES ABOVE




no problem, just add your quote and explanation of rev 1: 1,4-6, and heb 1: 9
also tell us who is talking in rev 3:2,12.
If you do not add the above, your explanation will be termed as false !
a true Christian should not be afraid of sharing his knowledge of the scripture when he is being asked.

Did u really read philipians2:6-8.

dolphinheart:

1. Yes I did read philipians 2: 6-8 and I understood it. I quoted it to you showing I read it, and I explained it to you, showing I understand. I went further to add scriptures that surpport my understanding of philipians chapter 2 .

first if u really had read n understand that passage ur questions would be needless

2. your refusal to show where I insulted you before or during your allegations shows you raised a false unsubstantiated allegations against me. I've warned you repeatedly to stop making allegations you can't show proof of

I av posted it not just me but also brocab.

3. When did I explain my statement about Jesus having the same nature as God ?

oga u didn't

first time: may 9 2016, 2:33pm, on these thread
col1:15 and heb 1:3

second time: may 9 2016, 4:24PM, on these thread

third time: may 11 2016, 12:46pm, on these thread

can u search them out n repost them

while you where lying against me that I said Jesus and his father both have one nature

.u said Jesus has same nature as God

4. your word's are theories and a twisting of the direct words found in the scriptures, while you refuse to quote and explain scriptures that show you the truth.

y were u now asking for my view before when u have made u ur mind not to believe them even the verses I gave u were also theories

They are not blind arguments, they are not meaningless questions
the answers to those questions will go a long way to show if you are telling the truth or not

very very blind n meaningless

pls show where I had insulted you now of before

I av posted them

[s]Jesus has a God? yes or no
Jesus is subjected to that God ? yes or no
if Jesus have a God, how can He then be almighty God !
[/s]

do u agree that the father called Jesus God?

your questions are still pending
1. On April 27, I asked you to do this:
" maybe you that knows the implication can explain what you understand by what's recorded in revelation 1:1, 4-6
and tell us who is talking in rev 3:2,12.
finally can you tell us what you think about heb 1:9 "

2. on April 27 jEphz
"for those saying Jesus is God.. pls. explain these Scripture for me ... Ephesians 5:1,2 1timothy 2:5 John 8:42 Act 2:22 Hebrews 12:2...... "

3. April 29
" the God of our Lord Jesus Christ " Eph 1:17, who is the God of Jesus Christ ?

4. "You say Jesus is still a man in heaven, you also say Jesus has a God when he was a man.
NOW DOES Jesus STILL HAVE A GOD IN HEAVEN?"
who anointed Jesus? who is that person to Jesus?
you can see that the questions are numbered, so dnt muddle it up , or give part response

u select verses for me to interpret even when I give u answers u say I didn't answer it the way u want or they are theories but u ignore mine n pretend it does not exist.

zodiakzax:
you see how childish you are in your thinking? We say Christ is God because He has the same nature as God. In John 14:28 Jesus said "the Father is greater than i" In the first place, the term for "greater" (Greek - meizon) does not necessarily imply one who is greater in nature or essence. It can refer to someone or something being greater in position and/or authority, just as the following passages show:

"I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater (meizon) than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." Matthew 11:11

John being greater than all those born of women does not imply that the rest were less human than John, or that they were inferior to John in nature. Here, the term must mean that John was greater in position and rank.Is God the Father the head of Christ? Of course in position but not Nature. Is the husband head of the woman? Of course in position not in nature. The woman is not a dog is she? Nope, she is human but the man is the head because the woman must submit and the man must rule over her. The same goes for the Son and the Father. They both have the same nature. Humans have one nature, angels have another nature and God has His own nature. So when it says God is the head of Christ doesn't make Christ less inferior in nature to the Father.Am just hoping you understand.

am happy you Recognize that Jesus is subjected to a superior authority. he has a HEAD above him in the universe. 1 Cor 11:3


but the underlined is what I want you to explain, where did u get those theories from ? do u even know that God nd his angels share the same nature as Spirits ?

[quote author=dolphinheart post=45843929][b]rev 3:2,12 ESV
Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of MY GOD.
12. The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of MY GOD , the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and MY OWN NEW NAME.

WHAT DO WE LEARN FROM THESE VERSE
1. Jesus keeps repeating the fact that he has a God .
2 . He made this statement while he had gone back to heaven as a spirit creature
3. This means that even in heaven, Jesus still states that he has a God !
4. He calls his God "my God "
5. Jesus also has a new name

my question to solite3 and brocab

1. do you now agree that in heaven jesus still has a God ?

Jesus still has the human nature even in heaven

2. do you know the God Jesus called "my god"

Dolphinsheart answer my question
Did the Father called Jesus God?

quote author=dolphinheart post=45847043]COMPILATION:

From rev 1:1, we learnt that
1. The revelation comes from God and was given to Jesus

2. "God " in these verse and "Jesus" in these verse are not the same person
3. God here is different from Jesus
4. It was God that wants Jesus to show his servants the things that must shortly take place
5. Jesus now made the revelation from God known through his angel to his servant John

who says Jesus is the same person as the father

6. thereforE the revelation involved 4 persons , God, Jesus , the angel and John.

we already know

From rev 1:4-6 we learnt that
1. John was sending his greeting from (1) the one who is, and who was, and who is to come ( the identity of these one will be revealed later ) and (2) the seven spirits
2. The greetings are from two distinct sources , the one who is, who was, and who is to come, is not the same person as the seven spirits who are before His throne.

John referred to the trinity like that to to tell you their roles in salvation it does not mean Jesus is not the one which was, which is and which is to come. See heb 13:8

We also learnt that
1. These verses teaches us that the greetings by John to the seven congregations came from three dinstinct and different sources, first one was from the one who is, who was and who is to come, second one is from the seven spirit's which solite3 claim to be the holy spirit, thiRd greeting was from Jesus Christ.
2. The first greeting was from HIM , who the verse decribes as who is who was and who is to come(solite3 said this is the father).
3. The second greeting are from the seven Spirits( solite3 said these is the holy spirit)
4. The third is from Jesus who John calls the FAITHFUL WITNESS, THE FIRSTBORN OF THE DEAD.
5. John makes an important statement , he saY's that Jesus had made us a kingdom, PRIESTS TO HIS GOD AND FATHER.
6. From 5 above we learn that Jesus did not only claim that the father is God, like some will like to believe, he claimed that the Father is HIS GOD? EVEN RIGHT THERE IN HEAVEN!
(The scriptures is awash with facts to support these claims , I shall quote most as we go along)
7. from the greeting of John and from his statements regarding Jesus. It is evident that :
a) Jesus is not the God mentioned is verse 1
b)Jesus has a God in heaven
c)Jesus is not HIM who gave the first greeting , the one described as who is who was and who is to come(which solite3 refers to as the father). john specifically describes who the greetings where from!

do you see the trinity roles in salvation now

d)Jesus is not the almighty God as he had said, with

remember Jesus has same nature as God.and

John reiteratING that Jesus has A GOD!( note this is very much different from calling someone God, like some like to use as a defense to Jesus and John's statements)

the human nature

From heb 1:9
1. Jesus has a God who is superior to him, who is his God .

only because he took upon him the nature of a servant, as a servant cannot be greater than his master. it is a rule

2. This God is now suppor ting Jesus statements indicating he has a God , this God now states that he is the God of Jesus

this should tell you Jesus is truly a man

3. It is this God who anointed Jesus and exalted him above his companions.

as the head of the MAN Christ Jesus. Who else is fit to do so

4. the reason for such anointing is because and not limited to the fact that Jesus loved righteousness and hated wickedness.

it is clearly written Christ was righteousness personified and only him is truly righteous.

from rev 3:2,12 we learnt that 1. Jesus keeps repeating the fact that he has a God .
2 . He made this statement while he had gone back to heaven as spirit creature

how does the creator now turn to be the creature. God forgive you.

3. This means that even in heaven, Jesus still states that he has a God !
4. He calls his God "my God "
5. Jesus also has a new name

Jesus is still a Man in heaven.d scriptures say no MAN had ascended into heaven except he that came down that is the son of man. If Jesus didn't ascend as a man to even then this scripture becomes a lie.

NOW TO REV 1:7
Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.
the identity of the one who is coming is easily identified as jesus , he was the one who was pierced when he was on earth, and who went to heaven in the clouds.

tank God u agreed it is Jesus that is the one to come

This coming refers to Jesus’ appearing in the future to reward the just and punish the wicked

and to reign

Pe[s]ople will not see him with their literal eyes.[/s]

" every eye will see him. When he ascend did the disciples not see him literally with their eyes? [s]Since his ascension to heaven, Jesus is a spirit person[/s] “

who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see.”—

people will see him but not in his unapproachable light.

1 ti 6:16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen

given honor and eternal dominion to a created being?

Jesus does not need to take on a human form to be “seen”

very contradicting u dolphine heart said that Jesus can not be seen

by the inhabitants of the earth any more than Jehovah needed to do so when he brought the Ten Plagues on the Egyptians in the days of Moses. The people of that time had no doubt that Jehovah was causing the plagues, and they were forced to recognize his power. In a similar way, when Christ takes action as God’s Executioner, the wicked will be forced to “see,” or perceive, that Jesus is being used by God to judge them

irrelevant comparism.

They will know this because mankind will have been warned in advance.

Yes, “every eye will see [Jesus], and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him

very contradicting indeed phew

rev 1:8
ESV
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
I am The Alap and The Tau, says THE LORD JEHOVAH God, he who is and has been and is coming, The Almighty.
NWT
.8“I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”

d one who is speaking describe himself as Alpha n omega

Therefore the verse is right to say that jehovah is the person that verse is referring to.

Jehovah also called Jesus God why not consider that verse

ALPHA AND OMEGA
While many people apply this title both to God and to Christ,

Jesus desctibe himself so

a more careful examination of its use restricts its application to Jehovah God.

Jesus is Jehovah God

The first verse of Revelation which i had explained shows that the revelation was given originally by God and through Jesus Christ, hence the one speaking (through an angelic representative) at times is God himself, and at other times it is Christ Jesus.

A BLANTANT LIE. The Bible is clear God gave it to Jesus to show to his servants. It never said that God or Jesus were speaking through an angel

Thus at rev 1:8 it is Jehovah who is talking cus it's only jehovah that is the almighty God. Although the preceding verse speaks of Christ Jesus, it is clear that in the application of the title is to “the Almighty” God.

which scripture do you use to back this your baseless nonsense

The title occurs again at rev 21:6
English Standard Version
And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment.
The following verse identifies the speaker by saying: “Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son.” ReV 21:7

Inasmuch as Jesus referred to those who are joint heirs with him in his Kingdom as “brothers,” not “sons,” the speaker must be Jesus’ heavenly Father, Jehovah God.
matt 25:40 English Standard Version
And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

ignoramus
[quote]heb 2:10-12 (ESV)
10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering.
11 For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers,
12 saying, “I will tell of your name to my brothers;
in the midst of the congregation I will sing your praise.”

2Co 6:18“‘And I will become a father to you, and you will become sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah, the Almighty.”

The final occurrence of the title is at rev 22:13, which states: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation; verse 8 and 9 show that the angel spoke to John, verse 16 obviously applies to Jesus, the first part of verse 17 is credited to “the spirit and the bride,” and the one speaking in the latter part of verse 20 is manifestly John himself.
“The Alpha and the Omega” of verse 12-15 , therefore, may properly be identified as the same one who bears the title in the other two occurrences: Jehovah God.

The expression, “Look! I am coming quickly,” in verse 12, does not require that these aforementioned verses apply to Jesus, inasmuch as God also speaks of himself as “coming” to execute judgment.

Isa 26:21For look! Jehovah is coming from his place To call the inhabitants of the land to account for their error, And the land will expose her bloodshed And will no longer cover over her slain.”

mal 3: 1-6 speaks of a joint coming for judgment on the part of Jehovah and his “messenger of the covenant.”
[b] look! I am sending my messenger, and he will clear up a way before me. And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant will come, in whom you take delight. Look! He will certainly come,” says Jehovah of armies.
2. “But who will endure the day of his coming, and who will be able to stand when he appears? For he will be like the fire of a refiner and like the lye of laundrymen.
3. And he will sit as a refiner and cleanser of silver and will cleanse the sons of Leʹvi; and he will clarify them like gold and like silver, and they will certainly become to Jehovah people presenting a gift offering in righteousness.
4. And the gift offering of Judah and of Jerusalem will actually be pleasing to Jehovah, as in the days of long ago and as in the years of antiquity.
5. “I will come near to you for judgment, and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, against the adulterers, against those who take false oaths, against those who defraud the hired worker, the widow, and the fatherless child, and against those who refuse to help the foreigner. These have not feared me,” says Jehovah of armies.
6. “For I am Jehovah; I do not change. And you are sons of Jaco

solite3:
were those supposed older manuscripts even accurate?

thats a question you should ask only on rev 1:11, which is what we are discussing about.
also add these questions to your research, is the Textus Receptus accurate?

Scholars use it because that's the best older manuscripts they can find.the textus remains the most invaluable to Christians and scholars prefer not to use it only because they feel it was late.

you yourself know that the above is a big lie, only those who want to find surpport for the testus Receptus use it.
Other critical texts came later than the Textus Receptus and scholars are using it now, by the way, are you thinking that the Textus Receptus is a late manuscript?

How do you even know alpha and omega was included in the textus? What evidence do you have? please don't give those older manuscripts that had already being proven to be corrupt as evidence except you want me to believe you by faith.

the evidence has been stated several times in this thread, you have asked similar questions before, and it was answered!, and pls dnt start with you did not see it, cus you responded to my answers!

Revelation 1:11
I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and - This whole clause is wanting in ABC, thirty-one others; some editions; the Syriac, Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian, Slavonic, Vulgate, Arethas, Andreas, and Primasius. Griesbach has left it out of the text.
-Commentary on the Bible , by Adam Clarke, [1831], at sacred-texts.com
www.sacred-texts.com/bib/cmt/clarke/rev001.htm


......... 11 Saying, [I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and,] What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
(The bracketed, emboldened portion of the above KJV text was not in the original text of verse 11, as explained below...........

commentary
Virtually all modern translations do not include in Rev 1:11 the following words that are in the KJV version of that verse:
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and,
This wording at the beginning of the KJV 's version of Rev. 1:11 is not found in virtually any ancient texts, nor is it mentioned, even as a footnote, in any modern translation or in Bruce Metzger's definitive A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, Second Edition (New York: United Bible Societies, 1994, phone: 800-322-4253).

(The New King James Version [ NKJV ] does include this wording; but the NKJV is not a modern translation; it is only a modern-English rewording of the the original KJV , minus the Aprocrypha, since the Aprocrypha was in the original KJV .)..............

The errors in both Rev. 1:11 and Rev 22:13 are due to the inaccuracy of the so-called Textus Receptus , the Greek text upon which the KJV 's New Testament was based.
(According to Bruce Metzger (in The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration, Second Edition , Oxford University Press, 1968), the Textus Receptus was hastily and haphazardly prepared and was based mostly upon unreliable 12th century manuscripts. It was the work of a Dutchman by the name of Desiderius Erasmus and was first published in 1516. Though what became known as the Textus Receptus was inferior in accuracy to the very first complete Greek New Testament, the so-called Complutensian New Testament that was published only two years earlier in 1514, Erasmus' text was marketed much more effectively and was used as the basis for all the principal Protestant translations in the languages of Europe until 1881, when the English Revised Version [RV ] was first published.
www.bibletexts.com/versecom/rev01v11.htm

meanwhile:
your questions are still pendin sir

Jesus has a God, yes or no,?
Jesus is subjected to that God , yes or no
if Jesus has a God, how can He then be almighty God ?


2. on April 27 jEphz
"for those saying Jesus is God.. pls. explain these Scripture for me ... Ephesians 5:1,2 1timothy 2:5 John 8:42 Act 2:22 Hebrews 12:2...... "

3. April 29
" the God of our Lord Jesus Christ " Eph 1:17, who is the God of Jesus Christ ?

4. "You say Jesus is still a man in heaven, you also say Jesus has a God when he was a man.
NOW DOES Jesus STILL HAVE A GOD IN HEAVEN?"

who anointed Jesus? who is that person to Jesus?
you can see that the questions are numbered, so dnt muddle it up , or give part response

solite3, pls respond to these post if you can( it was posted on may 28, 1: 17pm)

[b]I've read your posts, I've even quoted them, unlike you who had abandoned some of my recent posts to you cus it contains questions you dnt want to answer.
I've told you and repeated it over and over again, there are no issues with Revelation 1:11 in manuscripts containing that verse!. because of these, you have decided to generalize the issue under discussion, expanding the discussion to include the whole book of Revelation, when all we are discussing is just a single verse!
that you cannot find flaws with the manuscripts redering of rev: 11 makes it imperative to believe that the Textus Receptus added those words "Alpha and omega" when it was compiling itself hundreds of years later. You could not even provide the source of the words added to that verse by the Textus Receptus!
I've given you 4 facts about that verse now, you could not disprove any.
You refuse to accept the words of that verse as recorded in the older and more reliable manuscripts, claimING the book of revelation had flaws. but you accept the verse in the test us Receptus , even when scholars and even it's own author agree that it had flaws. you assume this double standards just to protect a false doctrine.
The first verse of Revelation had set a precedent for you to use to examine the whole book, it tells you that "God gave Jesus" the revelation , God did not give himself, Jesus did not give himself, it was God who have Jesus the Revelation. God ( in the book of revelation)and Jesus are not the same person!
verse 4-6 also clears who is who in the Book of revaluation, it helps us to understand that the one who is, who was, and who is coming is different from Jesus Christ.
brocab says it's Jesus, you say it's the father, yet you refuse to discuss and tell the whole world who is right and who is wrong!
to make sure that you dnt confuse yourself on who the al mighty God is, Jesus told you severaly in that book that he has a God! , using the words " my God " several times in that book. I ve several times asked if the almighty can have a god superior to him, cus Jesus had now indicated when he was in heaven, when he came to earth, and when he back in heaven that he has a God! he did not just call that God "a God ", he said "my God", "your god" , "the only true god".
All this facts are presented to you in the Book of Revelation, you could not discuss any of them, but you choose to believe a verse from the Textus Receptus that you can't defend, that you can't show where the Textus Receptus got it from! that majority of scholars have shown to be spurious, that can't be found even in translations of the authors that surpport trinity.
lastly, even if you would not answer the questions being posted to you several times , pls can you tell us the name of your church or organization you associate with at the moment?[/b]

CAPTIVATOR:


am happy you Recognize that Jesus is subjected to a superior authority. he has a HEAD above him in the universe. 1 Cor 11:3


but the underlined is what I want you to explain, where did u get those theories from ? do u even know that God nd his angels share the same nature as Spirits ?

does humans and animals share the same nature because they are physical beings? Don't blaspheme. God's nature and the nature of angels are on a completely different level. Angels are spirit beings yes but doesn't make them have the same nature as God. Animals are physical beings yes but that doesn't make them have the same nature like us. Go and study about what is nature, am guessing you are ignorant on this subject for you to even ask me such a question only proves it.

brocab:
What don't you understand?
We have never denied Jesus has a God,

then this question should not be too hard for you to answer
1.DOES JESUS HAVE A GOD AT THIS MOMENT?
2. DOES JESUS HAVE A GOD HE IS SUBJECTED TO AT THIS MOMENT?
3. CAN THE ALMIGHTY GOD HAVE A GOD?
4 . CAN THE ALMIGHTY GOD BE SUBJECTED TO ANYONE?
[color=blue] readers should take note and see if he answers

We are simply trying to give you understanding Jesus and His Father and His Father's Spirit are One.

ONE WHAT!, and you answer should be surpported with the scriptures.
christians already know Jesus and the father are one, the same way jesus disciples will be one with both jesus and the father, but that does not make the disciples almighty God!
the father is greater than I am, Jesus said!

It's you who seem to have a problem understanding something that is so simple to understand. I suppose it must be hard for you to comprehend such knowledge without you accepting Christ fully into your heart, which stops you to become one with Him and God at the same time, teaching you all things concerning His word.
We have shared the word of God to you over and over and still it confuses you to understand any of them.[/color]
{John 1:1} is a good example to the divine nature of the 3 divine persons of the Holy trinity, the Father the word {The Son} and the Holy Spirit are of the same one undivided divine essence.

is the holy spirit mentioned in John 1:1?, wow! I kinda missed that, hope you are not spewing another lie!

They are of the same one undivided divine substance and nature. Although their are 3 divine persons in the Godhead, there is only one will, and one common energy in the Godhead. The Father the son and the Holy spirit have only one and the same divine will, Not 3.
Therefore their can never be conflict of wills within the Godhead. None of the 3 divine persons ever act separately from the other 2.
They are One God not 3 God's, Christ said I and My Father are One {John 10:30}
We can all see the differences we have 'when dealing in this subject with the JW's they believe their are two God's Jesus and the Father are two separate God's.
But the word say's, There is only one source in the Godhead, God the Father, He is the only unoriginated Origin in the Godhead, God the son is begotten by God the Father. God the Holy Spirit proceed by God the Father.

pls always support your theories with scriptural proofs pls.

Each of the 3 divine persons of the triune God dwells and exist in the other 2, without confusion or separation: Jesus said to Him, Have I been with you so long and yet you not known Me Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say; show us the Father? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words that I speak to you, I do not speak on My own authority , but the Father who dwells in Me, does the works {John 14:9-10}
God is a being of absolute divine Love, Love is the very mode of God's triune being as a unity. The unceasing mutual perfect infinite divine love characterizes the personal divine relations of the 3 divine persons of the Holy trinity. The human desire for love reflects His divine reality.
God is love" {1 John 4:8}
It must be difficult for you to try and work this out in your own head, if solite3 said it's the Father and I say it's Jesus, then it's divine. We have both correctly answered the question rightly. Now you answer {Revelation}

ha, so one person exists in the other two persons witout confusion or separation, likewise the other person's exists in the other two persons too.Haba, so who now is the person, is it the father , or the son, or the holy spirit, who now controls this three persons that is in one person that is now in the three persons! I bow for you o, no wonder it is difficult for me to work out.
brocab, that the father dwells in Jesus does not mean jesus is the father!
their relationship shows they are two seperate persons

I prefer this :
the father and jesus are distinguishable persons, each with a name.
when they are together, Stephen knew who was who and said so
when they where not together, the disciples knew who was who and distinguished them.
Jesus has said the father is his God and our God, I follow jesus example
jesus said the father is greater than he is , I believe Jesus
jesus does the will of the father, but he also has his own will.
there are record's of jesus talking to the father and the father talking to jesus, thus they are two seperate persons

therefore the question , which of these two persons is who was, who is and who is to come?
it has never been recorded that both of them are talking at the same time, so pls who is talking there? You can't both be correct cus jesus and the father are not the same person?
it seems you dnt even understand what the word person means!

brocab issues stiLl at hand:

issues at hand:
And yet no response from you on the issue you yourself raised?
also up till now , you have not answered these questions
(ill find that post and point it to you)
you have also refused to respond to these questions and scripture:
[b]Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work.
Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!.
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.
Examine this questions brocab 1. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth?
2. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit?
4. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am"
5. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit.
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.
You cannot answer if Jesus is the same person as the father.
brocab , readers will note(again) that you have NOT quoted and explained ANY of the following scriptures :
1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9,11
12. john 14:6
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7
16. ps 28:18
And a host of others
Brocab , examine these scripture
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.
Jesus is Gods only begotten son, Jesus is not God almighty!
YOU HAVE AGAIN ADDED LIES TO YOUR VIEWS.
Lets see if Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him:
[b]King James Version
Joh 20:14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS Jesus!
King James Version
Joh 20:15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? SHE SUPPOSING HIM TO BE THE GARGENER, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
I dnt think the disciples would have been able to recognize Jesus more than Mary, she probably would have known Jesus from birth, and the picture of Jesus in her memory would have been sharper than a 100 mega pixel camera!
but here you are , lying again that Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him!
dnt you think Mary should have been able to recognise Jesus instantly if he had been raise in the same body he died in?
* this is a question ill hope you can give us answer to .
Do you notice how Jesus appeared to his disciples who had locked the doors, his actions transcends the physical realm, he appeared to them gram!, in a locked rooM!. yet until he showed them death dealing wound marks, that was when they believed they where swing the Lord.
brocab pls tell us
1. DOES SOME ONE FACE CHANGE WHEN HE OR SHE IS RESSURRECTED WITH THE SAME BODY HE OR SHE DIED IN?
2.DOES SOME ONE GETS RESSURRECTED WITH THE WOUND'S OR INJURIES THAT KILLED HIM?
If your assumptions are true, I bet during the ressurection, we will know those whose throut where slit, cus there will still be a gapping hole in there necks. and those whose brains where blown out will have a hole in their head, cus they will be resurrected with that same body!
before, I digress, let's further examine ya lie.
King James Version
Joh 21:4But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: BUT THE DISCIPLES KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS Jesus.
john 21: 12 New International Version
Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord.
even after seing Jesus after his resurrecting, after being with Jesus for years, they still do not recognize Jesus at first glance. If Jesus had been resurrected with the same body he had died in, the disciples will have no doubt, they wunt need to even bother to ask the question that dared not to ask, "who are you".
Jesus had just showed them who he is, it is left for us to understand that they still had issues with Jesus physical features, despite knowing that the person inviting theM to a meal is actually Jesus.
I for one believe that only spirits do appear and dissappear at will!
spirits can manifest physical bodies of any liking for any particular purpose, the scriptures is awash with such occurrences, they can even use it to have sex sef!
sir do you ever read the scriptures at all.
It says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God!
human body is flesh and blood!
how then do you espect the king of gods kingdom to have flesh and blood while his Co rulers do not!
how do you expect the physical to rule in the spiritual realm.
brocab, Jesus was a spirit before he came to earth, was he not?
how come , you refuse him his spirit nature when he had accomplished the work he was sent to do here on earth?

CAPTIVATOR:
Trust me, u guys are kids ... None of u can debate the bible with a Jehovah Witness, cos witnesses are trained by Jehovah God himself.

the worst u can do is dig up events that happen before u are formed in the womb, at a period clearly different from now. even with thag Jehovahs Witnesses are progressing.

let me introduce you to the Live Jw Broadcasting channel TV.Jw.org and the best website ever Jw.org , accessible in over 500 languages of the world.

You lie against Jehovah, would Jehovah teach things that are not true, only to change them later on

This is what Jesus said about the pharisees of the day, and the pharisees of today false jw:

Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

proselyte = a convert

ARE YOU EXPECTING ME TO ANSWER YOUR 101 QUESTIONNAIRE ONCE MORE.
This shows you are not ready to listen to the truth about the word of God, because dolphinheart knows all the answers.
The question you should be asking is, Is Jesus divine with His Father.
Once you can answer this question, then you will have all your answers answered.
If you refuse to answer this question, then your group of questioning is useless, and your questioning won't allow us to seek the truth about God Himself.
Think about that?

dolphinheart:


then this question should not be too hard for you to answer
1.DOES JESUS HAVE A GOD AT THIS MOMENT?
2. DOES JESUS HAVE A GOD HE IS SUBJECTED TO AT THIS MOMENT?
3. CAN THE ALMIGHTY GOD HAVE A GOD?
4 . CAN THE ALMIGHTY GOD BE SUBJECTED TO ANYONE?
readers should take note and see if he answers


ONE WHAT!, and you answer should be surpported with the scriptures.
christians already know Jesus and the father are one, the same way jesus disciples will be one with both jesus and the father, but that does not make the disciples almighty God!
the father is greater than I am, Jesus said!



is the holy spirit mentioned in John 1:1?, wow! I kinda missed that, hope you are not spewing another lie!


pls always support your theories with scriptural proofs pls.



ha, so one person exists in the other two persons witout confusion or separation, likewise the other person's exists in the other two persons too.Haba, so who now is the person, is it the father , or the son, or the holy spirit, who now controls this three persons that is in one person that is now in the three persons! I bow for you o, no wonder it is difficult for me to work out.
brocab, that the father dwells in Jesus does not mean jesus is the father!
their relationship shows they are two seperate persons

I prefer this :
the father and jesus are distinguishable persons, each with a name.
when they are together, Stephen knew who was who and said so
when they where not together, the disciples knew who was who and distinguished them.
Jesus has said the father is his God and our God, I follow jesus example
jesus said the father is greater than he is , I believe Jesus
jesus does the will of the father, but he also has his own will.
there are record's of jesus talking to the father and the father talking to jesus, thus they are two seperate persons

therefore the question , which of these two persons is who was, who is and who is to come?
it has never been recorded that both of them are talking at the same time, so pls who is talking there? You can't both be correct cus jesus and the father are not the same person?
it seems you dnt even understand what the word person means!

brocab issues stiLl at hand:

issues at hand:
And yet no response from you on the issue you yourself raised?
also up till now , you have not answered these questions
(ill find that post and point it to you)
you have also refused to respond to these questions and scripture:
[b]Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work.
Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!.
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.
Examine this questions brocab 1. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth?
2. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit?
4. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am"
5. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit.
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.
You cannot answer if Jesus is the same person as the father.
brocab , readers will note(again) that you have NOT quoted and explained ANY of the following scriptures :
1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9,11
12. john 14:6
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7
16. ps 28:18
And a host of others
Brocab , examine these scripture
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.
Jesus is Gods only begotten son, Jesus is not God almighty!
YOU HAVE AGAIN ADDED LIES TO YOUR VIEWS.
Lets see if Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him:
[b]King James Version
Joh 20:14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS Jesus!
King James Version
Joh 20:15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? SHE SUPPOSING HIM TO BE THE GARGENER, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
I dnt think the disciples would have been able to recognize Jesus more than Mary, she probably would have known Jesus from birth, and the picture of Jesus in her memory would have been sharper than a 100 mega pixel camera!
but here you are , lying again that Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him!
dnt you think Mary should have been able to recognise Jesus instantly if he had been raise in the same body he died in?
* this is a question ill hope you can give us answer to .
Do you notice how Jesus appeared to his disciples who had locked the doors, his actions transcends the physical realm, he appeared to them gram!, in a locked rooM!. yet until he showed them death dealing wound marks, that was when they believed they where swing the Lord.
brocab pls tell us
1. DOES SOME ONE FACE CHANGE WHEN HE OR SHE IS RESSURRECTED WITH THE SAME BODY HE OR SHE DIED IN?
2.DOES SOME ONE GETS RESSURRECTED WITH THE WOUND'S OR INJURIES THAT KILLED HIM?
If your assumptions are true, I bet during the ressurection, we will know those whose throut where slit, cus there will still be a gapping hole in there necks. and those whose brains where blown out will have a hole in their head, cus they will be resurrected with that same body!
before, I digress, let's further examine ya lie.
King James Version
Joh 21:4But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: BUT THE DISCIPLES KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS Jesus.
john 21: 12 New International Version
Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord.
even after seing Jesus after his resurrecting, after being with Jesus for years, they still do not recognize Jesus at first glance. If Jesus had been resurrected with the same body he had died in, the disciples will have no doubt, they wunt need to even bother to ask the question that dared not to ask, "who are you".
Jesus had just showed them who he is, it is left for us to understand that they still had issues with Jesus physical features, despite knowing that the person inviting theM to a meal is actually Jesus.
I for one believe that only spirits do appear and dissappear at will!
spirits can manifest physical bodies of any liking for any particular purpose, the scriptures is awash with such occurrences, they can even use it to have sex sef!
sir do you ever read the scriptures at all.
It says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God!
human body is flesh and blood!
how then do you espect the king of gods kingdom to have flesh and blood while his Co rulers do not!
how do you expect the physical to rule in the spiritual realm.
brocab, Jesus was a spirit before he came to earth, was he not?
how come , you refuse him his spirit nature when he had accomplished the work he was sent to do here on earth?