₦airaland Forum

Reyginus:
Anyhow you want it. You know I can tell you backward means forward and you'd have no option than to accept it. I don't have to show it logically. Lol.

Movement sa matter

macof:
folykaze abeg how can this boy be helped from his cognitive problems?


you are telling me what I've been telling you @ emboldened.

lemme give you another analogy. ..

Fanta is liquid but Liquid is not Fanta

Belief: A feeling that something is true/exists
Dogma: a belief held by a group or organization which others are expected to accept without argument

I swear if you still come back to tackle this issue of belief and dogma, you need to go for therapy

The guy na die. I thought he is an intelligent person. He fall my hand like kilode?

This guy claimed Iseese was founded. Founded for a purpose which could be religious, social or educational.

I feel like slapping sense into his head when I got to "founded". Founded by who?

He thinks Iseese is like Christianity and Islam that have a founder.

He is arguing like a baby.

macof:
folykaze abeg how can this boy be helped from his cognitive problems?


you are telling me what I've been telling you @ emboldened.

lemme give you another analogy. ..

Fanta is liquid but Liquid is not Fanta

Belief: A feeling that something is true/exists
Dogma: a belief held by a group or organization which others are expected to accept without argument

I swear if you still come back to tackle this issue of belief and dogma, you need to go for therapy

Lol. I will not let you escape.

So a concept is divine and is with belief but it's not a religion?

macof:
this is irrelevant.

how does an institution = religion
this is how you intentionally twist my words

Lol. Religion is not an institution? You guys need some Grey Matter. See what I'm arguing.

FOLYKAZE:
Your problem now is divinity?

Let me for the sake of other readers address that.

I will employ you to read from this webpage on what spirituality is . http://m.dummies.com/how-to/content/exploring-the-meaning-of-spirituality.html

Now, on divinity, dictionary put it meaning as a state of being godlike or divine.

From the definition, you should be able to see that divinity is not an entity but a state of the mind which can be experienced.

What is godlike?

Godlike is a evolved level where a person transcend beyond materiality, worldvie and is capable of seeing reality as it and not what the mind create it to look like.


A Godlike person connects and relate with his inner self. Evolve outside the material world, experience reality in it purity, listen to his intuition and commune with Iponri.

This level of experience is godlike.

A spiritual person has an immediate experience of the divine or of some higher power. To achieve this, they have to connect with their inner self.

Spirituality brings one to that state of being divine.

Iseese brings you to the state of being divine.

Religion throws one in mental bondage.

Lol. Such mischief. I don't need all these irrelevancies. Is Orisha a Religion is the question? Let me help you with the definition of Religion:

the belief in and worship of a superhuman
controlling power, especially a personal God
or gods.

FOLYKAZE:
The guy na die. I thought he is an intelligent person. He fall my hand like kilode?

This guy claimed Iseese was founded. Founded for a purpose which could be religious, social or educational.

I feel like slapping sense into his head when I got to "founded". Founded by who?

He thinks Iseese is like Christianity and Islam that have a founder.

He is arguing like a baby.

Ignorance is really a problem. Worse when the possessor knows not. Let me reduce it for you guys because I think you want to jump the argument with your dogma and belief misunderstanding.

If a thing is divine and also a belief is this faith in the thing not Religious? That is, where Religion is defined in the context of the Wikipedia pattern I provided you or when you follow macofs definition.

I know the next move. No attempt would be made to answer rather he'd tell me how Orisha is another thing after admitting he's both divine and a belief. Go ahead and waiting for your new explanation cut off from these primary subjects.

Reyginus:
Ignorance is really a problem. Worse when the possessor knows not. Let me reduce it for you guys because I think you want to jump the argument with your dogma and belief misunderstanding.

If a thing is divine and also a belief is this faith in the thing not Religious? That is, where Religion is defined in the context of the Wikipedia pattern I provided you or when you follow macofs definition.

I know the next move. No attempt would be made to answer rather he'd tell me how Orisha is another thing after admitting he's both divine and a belief. Go ahead and waiting for your new explanation cut off from these primary subjects.

Guy, sharaap.

You failed from the moment you started comparing christianity and African traditional religions.


You need to graduate from looking at things from only a christian perspective

JackBizzle:
Guy, sharaap.

You failed from the moment you started comparing christianity and African traditional religions.


You need to graduate from looking at things from only a christian perspective

Lololol. But I've never done so here na. My oy grouse with these guys is saying their Orisha, Iseele or whatever they want to call it is not a Religion? Do you agree with that nonsense considering what Religion really means?

Reyginus:
Lol. Such mischief. I don't need all these irrelevancies. Is Orisha a Religion is the question? Let me help you with the definition of Religion:

the belief in and worship of a superhuman
controlling power, especially a personal God
or gods.

Orisha is not a religion.

Your definition of religion is incomplete. There are religion in the world who do not believe in personal God. Taoism, zen buddhism and lot more.

I am saying it in an umpteen time. Iseese is spirituality and not a religion

Reyginus:
Lololol. But I've never done so here na. My oy grouse with these guys is saying their Orisha, Iseele or whatever they want to call it is not a Religion? Do you agree with that nonsense considering what Religion really means?

humanism can be a religion if you use a loose definiition.

it depends on your definition

FOLYKAZE:
Orisha is not a religion.

Your definition of religion is incomplete. There are religion in the world who do not believe in personal God. Taoism, zen buddhism and lot more.

I am saying it in an umpteen time. Iseese is spirituality and not a religion

Iseele? No longer Orisha? Lol. I'm hanging on Orisha before we begin another round of Twisting. We are getting somewhere. This is the definition of Religion according to Wikipedia:

' the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods'

And this is the definition of Orisha by Wikipedia:

'An orisha (spelled orichá or orixá in Latin America) is a god that reflects one of the manifestations of the Supreme God/ the All Father (Eledumare, Olorun, Olofi) in Yoruba religion. There are a total of 401 orishas'

Are the definitions above wrong? If they are not wrong how then is your Orisha worship not a Religion? And don't try to sneak in that Iseele like you are trying to do. My argument is on Orisha. Don't confuse yourself. Honesty is a virtue.

JackBizzle:
humanism can be a religion if you use a loose definiition.

it depends on your definition

Nonsense. It doesn't depend on definitions but properties. If your idea of what humanism really is admits a belief in a supernatural power then what you are really practising is a Religion.

Opinions, subjectivity and its like do not define what a thing really is. If a thing is A there's no way your Opinion will make to rather be B. It's a logical contradiction. It can never be possible.

Reyginus:
Iseele? No longer Orisha? Lol. I'm hanging on Orisha before we begin another round of Twisting. We are getting somewhere. This is the definition of Religion according to Wikipedia:

' the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods'

This definition not making when impersonal Gods are component of a religion. E.g tao.

Reyginus:
And this is the definition of Orisha by Wikipedia:

'An orisha (spelled orichá or orixá in Latin America) is a god that reflects one of the manifestations of the Supreme God/ the All Father (Eledumare, Olorun, Olofi) in Yoruba religion. There are a total of 401 orishas'

Orisha is consciousness.

The inner personality.

That we call it God does not make it god in Chirstian sense. Orisha is like buddha.

You see it as God, your headache. I see it as spark of consciousness.

Reyginus:
Are the definitions above wrong? If they are not wrong how then is your Orisha worship not a Religion? And don't try to sneak in that Iseele like you are trying to do. My argument is on Orisha. Don't confuse yourself. Honesty is a virtue.

Technically wrong sir

Reyginus:
Lol. Religion is not an institution? You guys need some Grey Matter. See what I'm arguing.

See, soon I won't be able to take your cognitive disorders anymore


I never said Religion is not an institution. ..
I asked you, how does Institution = religion?

Reyginus:
Lololol. But I've never done so here na. My oy grouse with these guys is saying their Orisha, Iseele or whatever they want to call it is not a Religion? Do you agree with that nonsense considering what Religion really means?

And you think you know Aborisa so well, more than those exposed to it... craziness


you don't know what religion really means, don't delude yourself

FOLYKAZE:
This definition not making when impersonal Gods are component of a religion. E.g tao.



Orisha is consciousness.

The inner personality.

That we call it God does not make it god in Chirstian sense. Orisha is like buddha.

You see it as God, your headache. I see it as spark of consciousness.



Technically wrong sir

Lol. I understand with the Buddha reference but then why should I believe your version? Does Orisha has Supernatural Powers?

macof:
See, soon I won't be able to take your cognitive disorders anymore


I never said Religion is not an institution. ..
I asked you, how does Institution = religion?

Lololol. Macof, please why are you doing this to me? The point is, by your definition of Religion, Orisha worship fits into a description of an institution, and thus a Religion. That is, by your definition. Let me also remind you that our earlier definition of institution considers 'any law or practise'.

macof:
And you think you know Aborisa so well, more than those exposed to it... craziness


you don't know what religion really means, don't delude yourself

But everything you've explained fits into the idea of Religion. Do you agree with Folykaze that Orisha is a state of consciousness. A kind of Buddha- like awareness? And now I'm wondering what exactly is the 'worship'.

Reyginus:
Lol. I will not let you escape.
So a concept is divine and is with belief but it's not a religion?

Deism fits this, and is not a religion

Reyginus:
Lololol. Macof, please why are you doing this to me? The point is, by your definition of Religion, Orisha worship fits into a description of an institution, and thus a Religion. That is, by your definition. Let me also remind you that our earlier definition of institution considers 'any law or practise'.

so any institution is a religion? damn! and he thinks he has a functioning brain

Reyginus:
But everything you've explained fits into the idea of Religion. Do you agree with Folykaze that Orisha is a state of consciousness. A kind of Buddha- like awareness? And now I'm wondering what exactly is the 'worship'.

everything I've explained is the exact opposite of what you are seeing. .. delusional?


Yes he is right, especially when you concentrate on the philosophy of Ori

macof:
Deism fits this, and is not a religion

Deism? With all that worship? Or is it meditation for enlightenment? But now your brother says this God is not real but only a kind of raising of our consciousness, can it still be deism?

As in, a belief that raising my consciousness to the highest or higher level of awareness is a belief in a supreme God that doesn't even interfere in my daily affair?

macof:
so any institution is a religion? damn! and he thinks he has a functioning brain

But I never said an institution is a Religion but a religion qualifies as an institution where your definition of Orisha falls in line with Religion.

Back to the question. You defined Religion as a set of institutions or institution with a dogma relating to the divine. Orisha as an established practise fits our second definition of institution from Wikipedia. A dogma is a set of beliefs which you also claim to have in Orisha. You also accept Orisha is divine.

Where then is the problem? I cannot say your Orisha worship is a Religion and be wrong based on the above submissions you've made. Except you'd say that your definition of Orisha and/or Religion was wrong in the first place. Then we would have to commence another round of cross-examination.

macof:
everything I've explained is the exact opposite of what you are seeing. .. delusional?


Yes he is right, especially when you concentrate on the philosophy of Ori

What then is Orisha worship? Let the philosophy of Ori for its turn. Let's address this first. If Orisha is just a higher level in awareness or a higher form of consciousness who then am I worshipping?

Reyginus:
Lol. I understand with the Buddha reference but then why should I believe your version? Does Orisha has Supernatural Powers?

how do you define supernatural??

Guy you need to start reading up the philosophy of Ori. Get some books.

Reyginus:
Deism? With all that worship? Or is it meditation for enlightenment? But now your brother says this God is not real but only a kind of raising of our consciousness, can it still be deism?

As in, a belief that raising my consciousness to the highest or higher level of awareness is a belief in a supreme God that doesn't even interfere in my daily affair?

Eledumare does not interfare in the daily affair of anyone.

You have your own divinity in Ori. That is what you engage everyday.

Everything has been set in motion by Eledumare and cares not if you are tormented, you have the capacity to free yourself.. . .that is if you engage your sense

Reyginus:
But I never said an institution is a Religion but a religion qualifies as an institution where your definition of Orisha falls in line with Religion.

Back to the question. You defined Religion as a set of institutions or institution with a dogma relating to the divine. Orisha as an established practise fits our second definition of institution from Wikipedia. A dogma is a set of beliefs which you also claim to have in Orisha. You also accept Orisha is divine.

Where then is the problem? I cannot say your Orisha worship is a Religion and be wrong based on the above submissions you've made. Except you'd say that your definition of Orisha and/or Religion was wrong in the first place. Then we would have to commence another round of cross-examination.

you didn't need to say it in those exact words
here is what you said ; " Orisha worship fits into a description of an institution, and thus a Religion"

So with this it's clear you think (or thought) institutions are religions



sharrap! I defined religion "an institution of dogmas relating to the Divine" not an institution with dogmas. .. please go and learn English. ..there's a difference between both which changes a lot. you really don't know anything

and no matter how you fix the word "institution" or "belief" into Orisa worship, you still fail cause Orisa worship has no dogmas


please remember I said Orisha worship is not religion but religion can be made out of it

Reyginus:
Deism? With all that worship? Or is it meditation for enlightenment? But now your brother says this God is not real but only a kind of raising of our consciousness, can it still be deism?

As in, a belief that raising my consciousness to the highest or higher level of awareness is a belief in a supreme God that doesn't even interfere in my daily affair?

you don't know Deism either?
and you just thought I used "Deism" to refer to Isese. .. smh you really need help

Reyginus:
What then is Orisha worship? Let the philosophy of Ori for its turn. Let's address this first. If Orisha is just a higher level in awareness or a higher form of consciousness who then am I worshipping?

philosophy of Ori is part of Isese, so it cannot be left aside


you worship yourself, your head, your father, your ancestors, the elements etc

FOLYKAZE:
how do you define supernatural??

Guy you need to start reading up the philosophy of Ori. Get some books.

Simple question. Is Orisha a Supernatural?

FOLYKAZE:
Eledumare does not interfare in the daily affair of anyone.

You have your own divinity in Ori. That is what you engage everyday.

Everything has been set in motion by Eledumare and cares not if you are tormented, you have the capacity to free yourself.. . .that is if you engage your sense

Is this deism?

macof:
you didn't need to say it in those exact words
here is what you said ; " Orisha worship fits into a description of an institution, and thus a Religion"

So with this it's clear you think (or thought) institutions are religions



sharrap! I defined religion "an institution of dogmas relating to the Divine" not an institution with dogmas. .. please go and learn English. ..there's a difference between both which changes a lot. you really don't know anything

and no matter how you fix the word "institution" or "belief" into Orisa worship, you still fail cause Orisa worship has no dogmas


please remember I said Orisha worship is not religion but religion can be made out of it

Lol. At this point I'd only speak to those reading this argument. You guys should understand the three laws of thought. The principle of noncontradiction to assess this arguments.