dblackninja:


I'll like to know that dictionary of yours and know wether that is all it has to say about religion. Look at the images below and relate to them.

This is where I got my own definition. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

dblackninja:

A dibia/babalawo answers to his idol. The belief in and worship of that his deity is his religion.

Is Jesus samething as Christianity? Is Mohammad samething as Islam? Is Buddha samething as Buddhism?

A babalawo cannot answer to his Idol because Idol is not a religion but an element worthy of worship of a particular religion.

Take a cow for example, in some religion, you sacrifice it and eat it. In another religion like some Hindu sects, you bow down and worship cow. This act is called goo puja. Does this make cow their religion? Nope. But we can simply call cow worshippers Hindu because they belong to hindi religion which is an institution.

I have never seen a Babalawo that can answer the question "which religion do you belong to" because they dont have one.

They might simply say traditional or native religion but this is not distinct and definate as traditional can be in multiple facet.

There is no religion outside the organised system or institution.

dblackninja:

I believe once we're able to solve what religion means, then all our problems are solved.
Is Google lying by giving that definition of religion?
Is religion all about an organized institution and anything outside an institution not religious? Or are google and all other dictionary I know of right about their definition??

Dictionary distort, sugarcoat and bastardise the meaning fo a word sometimes. For example, some dictionary define atheism as a belief. Some dictionary define God only from Christian and Islamic perspective. So one need to analyse each dictionary meaning before applying it.

dblackninja:

Me? Hell no!

The Nigerian flag is to Nigerians what an Ere Orisa is to an Isese adherent

so if Nigerians cannot say they worship the flag no matter how devoted they are to the State, it's only logical to say the same concerning the idols no matter how devoted they are to the Orisa

dblackninja:

Hahaha my brother, just trying to follow them step by step chaa..but once it begins to go in circles, that's when I pull out.
At least we have ascertain that Africans worship idols and have cancelled the claim that Africans (those invovled) don't worship it.

You are hardhearted like Rey.

A Soldier who salute the flag is not necessarily saluting the piece of cloth and painting but honouring what the flag represent. I.e nation or organisation. What you see is a man standing put before a flag.

Obama can be Michelle playboy. When Michelle bows and honor him, he is not just honoring Obama but the office of the president which Obama represent.

Christian worship Jesus not because Jesus is the Almighty God or Jehovah is not jealous any longer for worshipping another person. Jesus is the representation of Jehovah Colossian 1:15.

macof:



The Nigerian flag is to Nigerians what an Ere Orisa is to an Isese adherent

so if Nigerians cannot say they worship the flag no matter how devoted they are to the State, it's only logical to say the same concerning the idols no matter how devoted they are to the Orisa

Can you just split their head and insert the quote for them to understand?

FOLYKAZE:


This is where I got my own definition. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

This is what your source has to say about religion:

Simple Definition of religion
: the belief in a god or in a group of gods
: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods
: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group
Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary

You just highlightedthe underlined to say that is only what religion means. Ignoring the 1st and the 3rd.

Is Jesus samething as Christianity? Is Mohammad samething as Islam? Is Buddha samething as Buddhism?

A babalawo cannot answer to his Idol because Idol is not a religion [b] but an element worthy of worship of a particular religion.

You 100% agreed with me over here. Oh yeah Idol is not a religion, it's just a [b] graven image. The belief in and worship of it is the religion like you buttressed [subconsciously I think] in the underlined above^^

Take a cow for example, in some religion, you sacrifice it and eat it. In another religion like some Hindu sects, you bow down and worship cow. This act is called goo puja. Does this make cow their religion? Nope. But we can simply call cow worshippers Hindu because they belong to hindi religion which is an institution.

Still the same thing above ^^^

I have never seen a Babalawo that can answer the question "which religion do you belong to" because they dont have one.

They might simply say traditional or native religion but this is not distinct and definate as traditional can be in multiple facet.

Good. They might have a sect they might not. Whether they have a name or not doesn't change anything. I believe you must have heard of Sango worshippers.

There is no religion outside the organised system or institution.

Your source said otherwise. Are they lying as well?

Dictionary distort, sugarcoat and bastardise the meaning fo a word sometimes. For example, some dictionary define atheism as a belief. Some dictionary define God only from Christian and Islamic perspective. So one need to analyse each dictionary meaning before applying it.

Dictionary usually has different connotations for a word. Whenever you are looking for word try as much as possible to read everything it has to offer for it.
Mine has up to 4 connotations for atheism. All still standard. I can snap and send to you if you want.

macof:


The Nigerian flag is to Nigerians what an Ere Orisa is to an Isese adherent

Aright

so if Nigerians cannot say they worship the flag no matter how devoted they are to the State, it's only logical to say the same concerning the idols no matter how devoted they are to the Orisa

That I don't worship and revere the Nigerian flag doesn't mean that others do not as well.
Remember we are not only talking about some clan and what Orisa means to them. We are talking of African traditional religion as a whole.
You can refer to FOLYKAZE post where he said that Africans worship idols. There might be reasons for the worship, but the fact is that they worship them.

FOLYKAZE:


You are hardhearted like Rey.

A Soldier who salute the flag is not necessarily saluting the piece of cloth and painting but honouring what the flag represent. I.e nation or organisation. What you see is a man standing put before a flag.

Obama can be Michelle playboy. When Michelle bows and honor him, he is not just honoring Obama but the office of the president which Obama represent.

Christian worship Jesus not because Jesus is the Almighty God or Jehovah is not jealous any longer for worshipping another person. Jesus is the representation of Jehovah Colossian 1:15.

I believe we have passed this point yesterday. You are still saying the same thing naa. Christians worship Jesus. I don't see any difference here to be hard heartened. It's only macof, who has a problem with the word worship, that is heart heartened.

FOLYKAZE:


where did he accept that belief is dogma?

The thing is, is a belief a dogma?

FOLYKAZE:


You want me to eat your crap without analyzing it. We are not dummies who accept doctrines without proper evaluation.

His definition is not making any sense as football can also be turned to a form of religion. There are lot of loopholes and do not contain appropriate substance.

Come up with sound argument and forcing your own crap down people throat

Lolol. Imagine who's accusing me of not making sense. One says religion is a set of dogmas relating to the divine. Belief is a dogma. He accepts his Orisa is a belief. He accepts it relates to the divine. But he says it's not a religion. Lol. You guys have a wonderful sense of Logic.

dblackninja:

Hahaha my brother, just trying to follow them step by step chaa..but once it begins to go in circles, that's when I pull out.

At least we have ascertain that Africans worship idols and have cancelled the claim that Africans (those invovled) don't worship it.

Lol. He defines religion as a set/institution of dogmas relating to the divine. He accepts a belief in Orisa. He accepts it's divine but then he denies it's a Religion. This is kind of of argument you get when a person doesn't understand what he's saying.

macof:


you are the ignoramus here

try to be willing to learn something new

Lol. Okay. Let me get serious. Do you still insist that Religion is a set of dogmas relating to the divine or you have a new definition? Maybe you are changing definitions.

dblackninja:

This is what your source has to say about religion:

Simple Definition of religion
: the belief in a god or in a group of gods
: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods
: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group
Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary

You just highlightedthe underlined to say that is only what religion means. Ignoring the 1st and the 3rd.

You can look very well, the loopholes are glaring in the definitions. We have a subject which we are discussing. You would not want me to delve into the irrelevant.

1. Believe in a god or group of gods is theism. Not religion. Therefore, that definition is completely wrong and lack substance.

2. The definition comprises every details of what religion is. Reason why I picked it.

3. We are discussing spirituality and religion. Even when football can be religion, it does not entail spiritualism so this definition is out of space.

dblackninja:

You 100% agreed with me over here. Oh yeah Idol is not a religion, it's just a graven image. The belief in and worship of it is the religion like you buttressed [subconsciously I think] in the underlined above^^

Is a river a graven image?

dblackninja:

Still the same thing above ^^^

Cow is not a graven image. You still fail to show us the religion of babalawo.

dblackninja:

Good. They might have a sect they might not. Whether they have a name or not doesn't change anything. I believe you must have heard of Sango worshippers.

What is the name of the religion Ogun worshippers belong to?

If you dont have a name for it, it is not organised or institutionalized and cannot be called religion.

dblackninja:

Your source said otherwise. Are they lying as well?

You are the one turning a blind eye to reality.

Jesus teaching collapse if christianity become extinct. Therefore, there is no religion outside the organisation.

dblackninja:

Dictionary usually has different connotations for a word. Whenever you are looking for word try as much as possible to read everything it has to offer for it.
Mine has up to 4 connotations for atheism. All still standard. I can snap and send to you if you want.

Subject and angle should also be considered

dblackninja:

Aright


That I don't worship and revere the Nigerian flag doesn't mean that others do not as well.
Remember we are not only talking about some clan and what Orisa means to them. We are talking of African traditional religion as a whole.
You can refer to FOLYKAZE post where he said that Africans worship idols. There might be reasons for the worship, but the fact is that they worship them.

Someone saluting flag is what you see.

The person saluting flag says he is honoring his nation.

Where do you fall in here?

Reyginus:
Lolol. Imagine who's accusing me of not making sense. One says religion is a set of dogmas relating to the divine. Belief is a dogma. He accepts his Orisa is a belief. He accepts it relates to the divine. But he says it's not a religion. Lol. You guys have a wonderful sense of Logic.

This guy is a pathological liar.

Reyginus:
Lol. He defines religion as a set/institution of dogmas relating to the divine. He accepts a belief in Orisa. He accepts it's divine but then he denies it's a Religion. This is kind of of argument you get when a person doesn't understand what he's saying.

That's confusianism lol. He subconsciously knows the truth but doesn't want to voice it out before it really becomes the truth. And because of that, they won't know when their subconscious takes over their hand.
Look out what folykaze said
A babalawo cannot answer to his Idol because Idol is not a religion but an element worthy of worship of a particular religion .
He already knew that ^^ but decided that dragging over it is the best bet. Hope that statement becomes clear to him because macof is beating about the bush with his own statement.

FOLYKAZE:

This guy is a pathological liar.

Lolol. Where exactly did I go wrong?

dblackninja:


That's confusianism lol. He subconsciously knows the truth but doesn't want to voice it out before it really becomes the truth. And because of that, they won't know when their subconscious takes over their hand.
Look out what folykaze said
A babalawo cannot answer to his Idol because Idol is not a religion but an element worthy of worship of a particular religion .
He already knew that ^^ but decided that dragging over it is the best bet. Hope that statement becomes clear to him because macof is beating about the bush with his own statement.

Lolol. Something is not an idol but it is an element worthy of worship(idol). Logical contradiction everywhere. This only happens when someone either doesn't understand what he's saying or already made up on what to accept.

dblackninja:

I believe we have passed this point yesterday. You are still saying the same thing naa. Christians worship Jesus. I don't see any difference here to be hard heartened. It's only macof, who has a problem with the word worship, that is heart heartened.

You dont get the point.

Christians worship Jesus but this worship is seem directed to God. Jesus is not the God. He is just the mediator or a means through which you can reach God.

Samething as an Idol. It is a representation of Gods.

Reyginus:
Lolol. Something is not an idol but it is an element worthy of worship(idol). Logical contradiction everywhere. This only happens when someone either doesn't understand what he's saying or already made up on what to accept.

That's the thing I believe we have all tried.

Reyginus:
Lolol. Where exactly did I go wrong?

He said believe is not a dogma

he also denied Orisha veneration not been a religion because Iseese is not an Institution.

dblackninja:

That's the thing I believe we have all tried.

Lol. I don't know if this argument is peculiar to proponents of ATR. Waiting for Macof to tell me that a belief is not a dogma.

FOLYKAZE:


He said believe is not a dogma

he also denied Orisha veneration not been a religion because Iseese is not an Institution.

He said? Wow! You are genius. So our understanding of English Language should be based on Macofs interpretation of it on this thread and not really what it really is?

A belief is a dogma so his statement is simply a testament of his poor grasp of the matter and his bias for same. Do you agree with the below from Wikipedia?

' Dogma is a belief or set of beliefs that is
accepted by the members of a group without
being questioned or doubted'

FOLYKAZE:


You dont get the point.

Christians worship Jesus but this worship is seem directed to God. Jesus is not the God. He is just the mediator or a means through which you can reach God.

Samething as an Idol. It is a representation of Gods.

There's no problem here bro. I understand perfectly. Trinitarians won't agree with you though because Jesus is still God. We are clear about worship, we're only at loggerheads with Religion..but you have made your mind know to me by this:
A babalawo cannot answer to his Idol because Idol is not a religion but an element worthy of worship of a particular religion .

dblackninja:


That's confusianism lol. He subconsciously knows the truth but doesn't want to voice it out before it really becomes the truth. And because of that, they won't know when their subconscious takes over their hand.
Look out what folykaze said
A babalawo cannot answer to his Idol because Idol is not a religion but an element worthy of worship of a particular religion .
He already knew that ^^ but decided that dragging over it is the best bet. Hope that statement becomes clear to him because macof is beating about the bush with his own statement.

Can you see Rey twisting my words in and out?

Reyginus:
Lolol. Something is not an idol but it is an element worthy of worship(idol). Logical contradiction everywhere. This only happens when someone either doesn't understand what he's saying or already made up on what to accept.

Dblackninja, can you see this pure twisting and bending?

Where did I say Idol is not Idol?

I said, a babalawo can not answer to Idol because Idol is not a religion but an element/object of worship in a religion.

If one ask the religion you belong to, are you going to answer Jesus or Christianity?

Why are you twisting my words?

FOLYKAZE:



Can you see Rey twisting my words in and out?



Dblackninja, can you see this pure twisting and bending?

Where did I say Idol is not Idol?

I said, a babalawo can not answer to Idol because Idol is not a religion but an element/object of worship in a religion.

If one ask the religion you belong to, are you going to answer Jesus or Christianity?

Why are you twisting my words?

If that's the case I accept I was wrong then.

FOLYKAZE:


He said believe is not a dogma

he also denied Orisha veneration not been a religion because Iseese is not an Institution.

Lol. Just spotted this. But did he say that Orisha relates to the divine? What's an institution and please don't confuse yourself. I need Wikipedia or Oxford definition.

Reyginus:
He said? Wow! You are genius. So our understanding of English Language should be based on Macofs interpretation of it on this thread and not really what it really is?

A belief is a dogma so his statement is simply a testament of his poor grasp of the matter and his bias for same. Do you agree with the below from Wikipedia?

' Dogma is a belief or set of beliefs that is
accepted by the members of a group without
being questioned or doubted'

I am serving as his advocate here. So I will rely on his submission.

He already said dogma is a belief but do not agree belief is a dogma. There are two different things here.

He acknowledge dogma is a belief. He only deny belief been a dogma.

Now go back and read his word clearly.

FOLYKAZE:

Can you see Rey twisting my words in and out?

Dblackninja, can you see this pure twisting and bending?

Where did I say Idol is not Idol?

I said, a babalawo can not answer to Idol because Idol is not a religion but an element/object of worship in a religion.

If one ask the religion you belong to, are you going to answer Jesus or Christianity?

Why are you twisting my words?

Yeah..though I understand what he meant it's because of how we started yesterday and macof doesn't like those terms.

If babalawos worship idols and an idol is an element of worship in a religion then I believe we have actually arrived at a conclusion Not so??

FOLYKAZE:


I am serving as his advocate here. So I will rely on his submission.

He already said dogma is a belief but do not agree belief is a dogma. There are two different things here.

He acknowledge dogma is a belief. He only deny belief been a dogma.

Now go back and read his word clearly.

Nonsense. Your problem is English Language. It's not in your place to call dogma a belief and not vice versa but the position of English Grammar.

If he accepts that a Dogma is a belief and defines religion as a set or institution of dogmas and he Also concludes it by saying it relates to the divine, when he accepts Orisha relates to the divine, how then does it not fit into the definition of a Religion?

Do you understand what you are defending at all or you just feel you owe your brother in ATR the position of an ally?

FOLYKAZE:

I am serving as his advocate here.

Lol Folykaze the advocate of macof Lmao
Maybe he's an Orisha and you're an Aborisha..his mouth

dblackninja:

Lol Folykaze the advocate of macof Lmao

A very poor advocate at that. How can anyone defend that contradiction? For some reasons some people in Religion Section love the words 'win an argument'. The reason I had to choose my opponents carefully. Just look at what somebody is trying to defend.

It's like catching the characters of humans in MR NIGER D and go ahead to claim that a creature that you already screened through the parameters is still not a human being. His got every quality in your MR NIGER D but because you insist he's not human we should accept he's not human.

Reyginus:
Lol. Just spotted this. But did he say that Orisha relates to the divine? What's an institution and please don't confuse yourself. I need Wikipedia or Oxford definition.

Orisha relates to divine. Yes.


Organisation is an established organisation.