₦airaland Forum

macof:
you don't know Deism either?
and you just thought I used "Deism" to refer to Isese. .. smh you really need help

Lol. I've seen things today. Deism is simply the believe in a God that doesn't interfere with the universe. So how is this the same thing when I worship or venerate Orisha?

macof:
philosophy of Ori is part of Isese, so it cannot be left aside


you worship yourself, your head, your father, your ancestors, the elements etc

Okay. In essence I am God?

Reyginus:
Is this deism?

Yes

Reyginus:
Lol. I've seen things today. Deism is simply the believe in a God that doesn't interfere with the universe. So how is this the same thing when I worship or venerate Orisha?

Eledumare does not interfare with the world

FOLYKAZE:
Yes

So why the worship if it's deism?

Reyginus:
Simple question. Is Orisha a Supernatural?

I need clarification.

What is supernatural?

I am an Orisha. . .am I supernatural?

FOLYKAZE:
Eledumare does not interfare with the world

Why the rituals for Orisha then? And why exactly should I accept your idea of Orisha as against Wikipedia's?

Reyginus:
So why the worship if it's deism?

Have you seen somewhere Eledumare is being worshipped?

We dont worship Eledumare.

There is no dedicated Shrine or temple for Eledumare.

Reyginus:
Why the rituals for Orisha then? And why exactly should I accept your idea of Orisha as against Wikipedia's?

When you born twins, they are Orisha. You prepare a sacrifice with bean cake and pap. People eat it and not some invicible deity.

FOLYKAZE:
I need clarification.

What is supernatural?

I am an Orisha. . .am I supernatural?

This is Google's definition of Supernatural.

Adjective

(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

Noun

manifestations or events considered to be of
supernatural origin, such as ghosts.

I mean the above. Are you supernatural in any of these categories?

FOLYKAZE:
Eledumare does not interfare with the world

Eledumare? Orisha recognizes an Eledumare? What is an Eledumare?

FOLYKAZE:
Have you seen somewhere Eledumare is being worshipped?

We dont worship Eledumare.

There is no dedicated Shrine or temple for Eledumare.

I'm talking about your Orisha which you guys earlier talked about its worship. What then does that mean?

FOLYKAZE:
When you born twins, they are Orisha. You prepare a sacrifice with bean cake and pap. People eat it and not some invicible deity.

My question is why exactly is the worship done? Why exactly do you prepare your akara for Yourself/POrisha? Sacrifice to who?

Reyginus:
My question is why exactly is the worship done? Why exactly do you prepare your akara for Yourself/POrisha? Sacrifice to who?

the akara thing is tradition not ritual.

I will like to know if you are Yoruba or understand Yoruba traditional pratices that much. The point I want to bring out here is that you are seeing things from the Christian angle which makes you appear silly.

Religion in Yoruba is Esin.

Worship in Yoruba is Ijosin. No Yoruba person have ever claim to "josin" any Orisha. It is not done.

Yoruba people "bo" Orisha. This is why we are called Aborisha and not Ajosinrisha. "bo" in Yoruba mean veneration and also mean nourishment.

I can bo Aja "feed my dog". Bo Ogun "venerate Ogun". No one Josin Orisha.

Going by the definition of worship which is gotten from worthy-ship and mean giving worth those who deverse it. Yoruba people worship anything. We worship our parents. We worship kings, lil children and the world around us. That is simply cultural value and does not mean we are supernatural beings.

I think lawyers worship Judges in the temple of justice. Why aint you seeing that act of worship as religion?
By definition, worship

Reyginus:
This is Google's definition of Supernatural.

Adjective

(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

Noun

manifestations or events considered to be of
supernatural origin, such as ghosts.

I mean the above. Are you supernatural in any of these categories?

Yes I am.

The mystery of my life cannot be explained scientifically.

Even if the breathe is oxygen and it is everywhere, why do people still die?

No explanation. I am superfolykaze

Reyginus:
Why the rituals for Orisha then? And why exactly should I accept your idea of Orisha as against Wikipedia's?

Tapping into the spiritual

Reyginus:
So why the worship if it's deism?

No one worship Eledumare.

Worship does not make something religion. Worship simple mean acknowledging the worth of something or someone. I worship my dad and mum not because I see them as superhuman but that is how I was trained to show respect to them.

One friend is an Orisha. Do you think we worship our friends by taking Ebo to them? No. We are only giving respect and value to their companionship.

My mouth is an Orisha call Olubobotiribo. Does this mean my mouth is a super being? No.

Part of the bodies are sacred to the Yoruba people. The heart, the big toe, the chest and hands. . .they do give high value to this things not because they are superhuman.

Why think you are becoming dumb thinking worship is all about serving one imaginary God in a dedicated Church

FOLYKAZE:
the akara thing is tradition not ritual.

I will like to know if you are Yoruba or understand Yoruba traditional pratices that much. The point I want to bring out here is that you are seeing things from the Christian angle which makes you appear silly.

Religion in Yoruba is Esin.

Worship in Yoruba is Ijosin. No Yoruba person have ever claim to "josin" any Orisha. It is not done.

Yoruba people "bo" Orisha. This is why we are called Aborisha and not Ajosinrisha. "bo" in Yoruba mean veneration and also mean nourishment.

I can bo Aja "feed my dog". Bo Ogun "venerate Ogun". No one Josin Orisha.

Going by the definition of worship which is gotten from worthy-ship and mean giving worth those who deverse it. Yoruba people worship anything. We worship our parents. We worship kings, lil children and the world around us. That is simply cultural value and does not mean we are supernatural beings.

I think lawyers worship Judges in the temple of justice. Why aint you seeing that act of worship as religion?
By definition, worship

I don't think it has anything to do with my affiliation or Religion. With the Journey I've been on so far I think I can't call myself a Christian. I cannot be held back by something that has no hold on me in the first place.

As I type now, I sit beside a Yoruba friend who gives me lecture on what some of these terms really mean. On Eledumare, he told me it's no mental construct. That the Yoruba traditional practises are more pantheistic than Deistic. He sees no deism in any of it. That's an aside.

There's a reason lawyers worship our judges. There's a reason the Yoruba children worship their parents. There's a reason the Yorubas worship their kings or anything. When you say you are Orisha and you worship it why exactly do you worship yourself? Who do you sacrifice to?

FOLYKAZE:
Yes I am.

The mystery of my life cannot be explained scientifically.

Even if the breathe is oxygen and it is everywhere, why do people still die?

No explanation. I am superfolykaze

In which of the senses are you A Supernatural? The Adjective or the Noun form?

FOLYKAZE:
Tapping into the spiritual

Tap into what? You are both Folykaze and Orisha are you not? What spiritual are you now tapping into or you call this higher consciousness Spiritual?

FOLYKAZE:
No one worship Eledumare.

Worship does not make something religion. Worship simple mean acknowledging the worth of something or someone. I worship my dad and mum not because I see them as superhuman but that is how I was trained to show respect to them.

One friend is an Orisha. Do you think we worship our friends by taking Ebo to them? No. We are only giving respect and value to their companionship.

My mouth is an Orisha call Olubobotiribo. Does this mean my mouth is a super being? No.

Part of the bodies are sacred to the Yoruba people. The heart, the big toe, the chest and hands. . .they do give high value to this things not because they are superhuman.

Why think you are becoming dumb thinking worship is all about serving one imaginary God in a dedicated Church

It's your mind working tricks on you with what you fed it. I don't remember or see framing the above question with a Religious idea tied to it. No sign of it. Why Christian? Why not Islamic?

You have to start seeing everything here as Products of your revelation. I question everything. And when a thing sounds religious-like you must also learn that it mustn't be Christian.

To our problem. If there's nothing like God worship in deism, which I accept, but there's a worship to your Orisha, which you've shown, what sort of worship can one then have for the Universe (the sort you have) that would make their Position Deistic?

Reyginus:
In which of the senses are a A Supernatural? The Adjective or the Noun form?

Adjective

Reyginus:
I don't think it has anything to do with my affiliation or Religion. With the Journey I've been on so far I think I can't call myself a Christian. I cannot be held back by something that has no hold on me in the first place.

You are seeing things from the monotheistic perspective or let me say western worldview.

This will only lead you astray. You are pushing an agenda or driving toward a point. You really dont want to know. This is why you see me defending and throwing away all your points.

Reyginus:
As I type now, I sit beside a Yoruba friend who gives me lecture on what some of these terms really means. On Eledumare, he told me it's no mental construct. That the Yoruba traditional practises are more pantheistic than Desitic. He sees no desim in any of it. That's an aside.

the guy is right to some extent. You can come up with anything from Yoruba spiritual practice. You can come up with philosophy. You can come up with culture. You can come up with spirituality. This has to do from the angle you coming from. And no matter what, you will arrive at the same point.

This cannot be said of coming from the western worldview angle. You will always arrive at the wrong side.

I have personally ask this question. What concept of God does Eledumare falls. I decided not to ask here because most who are vast about Yoruba spiritual practise are no longer on this forum. While some others are not visiting freqently again. So I need to look for my answers elsewhere.

Eledumare is the Supreme deity in Yoruba pantheon.

In Monotheism, he falls in here. Eledumare is Olorun. We have only one Olorun. Every other Gods are Orisha.

In Polytheism, he falls in too. We have 401 Irunmoles headed by Eledumare. There are other lesser avatars, hero, spiritual beings that fall below these 401 irunmole which are been worship.

In Deism, Eledumare falls in. He/it does not interfare in the physical activities. No one pray to him/it. There is no dedicated Shrine and there is this believe that he has set everything in motion.

In Pantheism, he falls in here again. Within the body of Eledumare, all things, both abstract and concrete, are cells. Each and every animal, vegetable, mineral, thought, feeling, idea, emotion and concepth as its own ashe (energy) and therefore contributes to the whole that is Eledumare. An Orisha is a selected consciousness within the great consciousness known as Olorun.

There is also another concept that talks about a God handling control of the world in the hand of lesser Gods.

All these make sense. It just depend on the angle you are coming from.

Reyginus:
There's a reason lawyers worship our judges. There's a reason the Yoruba children worship their parents. There's a reason the Yorubas worship their kings or anything. When you say you are Orisha and you worship it why exactly do you worship yourself? Who do you sacrifice to?

We worship something by giving worth to it.

Sacrfice simply mean Nourishment.

Abimbola is a renowed Babalawo. He said in his book Ebo is an exchange (paroparo). You give something tangible to someone or something and receive your expectations.

I am an Orisha because I have Ori and worth.

How effective this things are. . .I dont understand and cant really explain.

Reyginus:
Tap into what? You are both Folykaze and Orisha are you not? What spiritual are you now tapping into or you call this higher consciousness Spiritual?

Tapping spiritual forces and elements

Reyginus:
It's your mind working tricks on you with what you fed it. I don't remember or see framing the above question with a Religious idea tied to it. No sign of it. Why Christian? Why not Islamic?

Are you not a christian?

Reyginus:
You have to start seeing everything here as Products of your revelation. I question everything. And when a thing sounds religious-like you must also learn that it mustn't be Christian.

I thought you are a christian

Reyginus:
To our problem. If there's nothing like God worship in deism, which I accept, but there's a worship to your Orisha, which you've shown, what sort of worship can one then have for the Universe (the sort you have) that would make their Position Deistic?

There is veneration of nature in Deism.

Feeling of awe nko?

Acknowledging worth of natural environment?

Never knew there is a rule in deism that stop one from acknowledging the worth of the beautiful nature.

For your info, Orisha are mostly natural substances. They are Orisha because we believe that everything is conscious and alive. This make the Yoruba people Panpsychist.

The Orisha worship or spritual practice is a way of relating with the consciousness of nature.

FOLYKAZE:
Adjective

Pardon the method I'd employ here but you are free to examine it. You can puncture it and tell me why it shouldn't cone up, why it changes or whatever point or loophole you can spot in it.

An Adjective is nothing. It cannot stand on its own. An Adjective cannot exist on its own. A noun can exist on its own. Blue can't exist on its own. White too can't. These adjectives are dependent on Nouns to make any literal or logical sense.

YOU exist together with Orisha as a Supernatural. I am wrong. You are Orisha and a Supernatural. But then supernaturals in the adjectival form need a focal point, a noun, a base to sit and YOU(Orisha) by being Supernatural too(in adjectival form) need something to make meaning.

Am I missing it? If yes, what then is the basis for which or rather the basics for which an Orisha(You) stand? If Orisha is always becoming(note adjective) can we then say that it ever really is? If yes, in what way?

Reyginus:
Pardon the method I'd employ here but you are free to examine it. You can puncture it and tell me why it shouldn't cone up, why it changes or whatever point or loophole you can spot in it.

An Adjective is nothing. It cannot stand on its own. An Adjective cannot exist on its own. A noun can exist on its own. Blue can't exist on its own. White too can't. These adjectives are dependent on Nouns to make any literal or logical sense.

YOU exist together with Orisha as a Supernatural. I am wrong. You are Orisha and a Supernatural. But then supernaturals in the adjectival form need a focal point, a noun, a base to sit and YOU(Orisha) by being Supernatural too(in adjectival form) need something to make meaning.

Am I missing it? If yes, what then is the basis for which or rather the basics for which an Orisha(You) stand? If Orisha is always becoming(note adjective) can we then say that it ever really is? If yes, in what way?

Guy we are not in an english class. I am a supernatural being.

Simple

FOLYKAZE:
You are seeing things from the monotheistic perspective or let me say western worldview.

This will only lead you astray. You are pushing an agenda or driving toward a point. You really dont want to know. This is why you see me defending and throwing away all your points.



the guy is right to some extent. You can come up with anything from Yoruba spiritual practice. You can come up with philosophy. You can come up with culture. You can come up with spirituality. This has to do from the angle you coming from. And no matter what, you will arrive at the same point.

This cannot be said of coming from the western worldview angle. You will always arrive at the wrong side.

I have personally ask this question. What concept of God does Eledumare falls. I decided not to ask here because most who are vast about Yoruba spiritual practise are no longer on this forum. While some others are not visiting freqently again. So I need to look for my answers elsewhere.

Eledumare is the Supreme deity in Yoruba pantheon.

In Monotheism, he falls in here. Eledumare is Olorun. We have only one Olorun. Every other Gods are Orisha.

In Polytheism, he falls in too. We have 401 Irunmoles headed by Eledumare. There are other lesser avatars, hero, spiritual beings that fall below these 401 irunmole which are been worship.

In Deism, Eledumare falls in. He/it does not interfare in the physical activities. No one pray to him/it. There is no dedicated Shrine and there is this believe that he has set everything in motion.

In Pantheism, he falls in here again. Within the body of Eledumare, all things, both abstract and concrete, are cells. Each and every animal, vegetable, mineral, thought, feeling, idea, emotion and concepth as its own ashe (energy) and therefore contributes to the whole that is Eledumare. An Orisha is a selected consciousness within the great consciousness known as Olorun.

There is also another concept that talks about a God handling control of the world in the hand of lesser Gods.

All these make sense. It just depend on the angle you are coming from.



We worship something by giving worth to it.

Sacrfice simply mean Nourishment.

Abimbola is a renowed Babalawo. He said in his book Ebo is an exchange (paroparo). You give something tangible to someone or something and receive your expectations.

I am an Orisha because I have Ori and worth.

How effective this things are. . .I dont understand and cant really explain.

My friend doesn't see it so. His argument gives the impression your likes are responsible for corrupting the traditions.

You agree in his pantheism. Isn't this an agreement of the existence of gods and thus Religion? I don't see any big deal in calling what you practise Religion. He doesn't too. Or it's both Religious and Nonreligious? If so, can we then deny it is ever Religion?

Scarifies to Orisha are simply nourishment. So you say. And the self or better 'You' worship Orisha(You worship You) to add worth to you. If you are YOU why do YOU have to worship YOU to give it worth? I don't know if you get me.

The Power supply here is terrible.

FOLYKAZE:
Tapping spiritual forces and elements

Forces? Elements? From You(Orisha) or outside You(Orisha)?

Reyginus:
Forces? Elements? From You(Orisha) or outside You(Orisha)?

You are not making sense again. This has become a mockery.

Start by understanding what an Orisha is. Tell me can talk

FOLYKAZE:
Are you not a christian?



I thought you are a christian



There is veneration of nature in Deism.

Feeling of awe nko?

Acknowledging worth of natural environment?

Never knew there is a rule in deism that stop one from acknowledging the worth of the beautiful nature.

For your info, Orisha are mostly natural substances. They are Orisha because we believe that everything is conscious and alive. This make the Yoruba people Panpsychist.

The Orisha worship or spritual practice is a way of relating with the consciousness of nature.

We worship for a purpose. When we worship a nature we belief(by deism) is not conscious of our worship doesn't that bring us a gap closer to schizophrenia?

If I believe that water is the urstuff or the uncaused cause that caused it all, and also that it's no longer active, does it make any sense looking into water and exclaim:'How beautiful and sweet you are'?

We know our consciousness states as Conscious, Subconscious and Unconscious. If whatever Deism recognizes as that which exists but have no effect on the world is conscious and alive he must exhibit any of the above and have effect on the world. But it won't because deism says it doesn't interfere with the world.

If doesn't interfere with the world then isn't prayers or worship to it's properties something different from Deism? Why? Because like you put, your Orishas are have panpsychism. Isn't it so?

FOLYKAZE:
Guy we are not in an english class. I am a supernatural being.

Simple

You have a business with making sure I understand how. Isn't that so?