₦airaland Forum

[quote author=donnffd post=48341881]

It seems like you dont understand the meaning of UNUSUAL, so i would close the chapter there.

Now you wish to shift the goal post to the word unusual? Even after i have explained the unusual to you even offering you a simple analogy and reference to look up? You obviously will not admit that you never carried out any extensive research because i have proven you wrong on that.

As for the books of the bible, you do acknowledge that what made the cut was what this men saw fit to make the cut. I really dont have the strength to get into the details but the bottomline is your word of God is only the word of God because it got chosen as the word of God by a council...so much for being the word of God...

I also gave you a simple screengrab which shows via its table why the book of thomas was not considered as inspired simply because 90% of its content are not found in any of the other gospels so if the bulk of the gospels still talk about the 10% found in the book of thomas why then should the book of thomas be included when the other gospels would suffice? Its very simple but you refuse to see it. All you see are men filtering them but i need to ask you this...The ones that you claim men compiled which is why you are having issues with it was it the same men who wrote the original scripts.

Why are you upset with the compilers who were ministers of the gospel and not upset with the writers who were also men? Your position is a deceptive one.

God bless you.

ValentineMary:
Well said but what of particles in the quantum world that pop into existence from nothing
And how exactly do u know that the force surrounding the world is not enough to make itself? that would mean u know what the entire universe is like.
Some scientific explanations has said that the world would crunch to a singularity as dark matter draws all matter together in gravitational force.

If we agree we don't entirely know the universe, then putting a God in the equation to fill our ignorance is not really good enough. Would it not be better to accept the universe for what it is or rather what we are going to find out it is rather than what makes us feel good?

And the possible reason we are not seeing matter in the classical scale appear from nowhere is because many people don't know what "nothing" is. An empty room is not empty, because it has air molecules, for us to understand nothing we must go outside space and time (the universe) to actually experience nothing. Then maybe we might see matter in the classical scale. I also guess thats why in the quantum world we see matter come from nothing because at that scale, they are actually isolated.

And before I forget, reserch at the university of Liverpool has shown that the universe might have come from the interaction of matter and anti matter releasing gamma energy that could cause expansion. The fraction of matter was higher than that of anti matter.

Though we are still trying to solve the problem, putting an uncreated creator in the equation would cause more problems.

Hmm! I cannot help but marvel at such explicit explanation and I must say, I cannot give answers to some of your questions. Though trying to fully grasp the total workings of the universe is like trying to measure "the infinitesimal" which is 98% on the scale of the impossible. I doubt we would ever find out the workings behind the creation of matter from nothingness. Its creation must be dependent on a force not fully understood. Just like "white noise" is the effect of electro-magnetic distortion if I am not mistaken. White noise is incoherent but we know it cannot be an effect of unbridled chance. It exists because electro-magnetic force exists. So, quantum matter might seem to pop from nowhere but it should be an after-effect of a force capable to create and destroy it. This is where we are caught in the loop of "infinitesimal"

I have witnessed unexplainable events which I have tried to apply science to but it's impossible. I wonder how someone who hasn't known me or been to my house before is able to tell me about things happening in my house.

Cc ValentineMary ifenes weah98

KingEbukasBlog:
He started the gratuitous mockery and swipes at Christians . If he had maintained decorum , I wouldn't have replied . You see ? His comments caused my response . But honestly , he was clearly being hypocritical wasn't he ? Be honest

This is the reason he replied in such manner.

UyiIredia:
Time to resurrect this thread.

@ HardMirror, cloudgoddess, hopefullandlord I'm inviting you to come and see powerful arguments for the existence of God. Just go to the first post and respond to what you see there. Even johnydon22 ran away from my response to him here

Double post

[quote author=4everGod post=48342469][/quote]Dont dare to tell me midnight sun is an unusual event, that would be dishonesty, you are just trying to cover the problem by saying other parts of the world sometimes dont receive sun, thats not whats i asked you, The event of the sun standing still was an unusual event, it wasnt a pattern, the opposite effect would obviously be unusual, it would be something the inhabitants havent experienced before, they likely would have recorded it. Your alaska example is
1. Not at the opposite side of the world with Jerusalem.
2. The midnight sun is a regular event that happens every six months

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_sun

Thats not enough to spark any inhabitants as being unusual, what is there that you just cant understand?, sincerely its tiring and you would start acting like you flawed me...smh


Emperor Constantine, who was Roman Emperor from 306 CE until his death in 337 CE, used what motivates many to action - MONEY! He offered the various Church leaders money to agree upon a single canon that would be used by all Christians as the word of God. The Church leaders gathered together at the Council of Nicaea and voted the "word of God" into existence. The Church leaders didn't finish editing the "holy" scriptures until the Council of Trent when the Catholic Church pronounced the Canon closed. Therefore, one can easily argue that the first Christian Bible was commissioned, paid for, inspected and approved by a pagan emperor for church use.
My point is that there was obviously no divine command in the building of the canon, it was debated by people and obviously the best debaters won...

lordnicklaus:
This is the reason he replied in such manner.

And how is it my business The point is that you asked for decorum and he vitiated that agreement first . He tried ridiculing theists for doing the exact same thing who does

Please are you asslicking ? I'm surprised you haven't reprimanded John and his cohorts . Please when you do that, you mention me

KingEbukasBlog:
And how is it my business The point is that you asked for decorum and he vitiated that agreement first . He tried ridiculing theists for doing the exact same thing who dies

Please are you asslicking ? I'm surprised you haven't reprimanded John and his cohorts . Please when you do that, you mention me

I am taken aback that you refered to his post in another thread that shouldn't be my business but that of the thread owner, show me his mistake in this thread and I will gladly reprimand him. And I must say, the thread is going quite well.

[quote author=donnffd post=48343341]

Dont dare to tell me midnight sun is an unusual event, that would be dishonesty, you are just trying to cover the problem by saying other parts of the world sometimes dont receive sun, thats not whats i asked you, The event of the sun standing still was an unusual event, it wasnt a pattern, the opposite effect would obviously be unusual, it would be something the inhabitants havent experienced before, they likely would have recorded it. Your alaska example is
1. Not at the opposite side of the world with Jerusalem.
2. The midnight sun is a regular event that happens every six months

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_sun

Arguing with you is pointless as you do not even know what the phenomena of Midnight Sun even is plus you do not know what i even asked when i asked for the latitudinal relationship between Alaska and Jerusalem and all you saw was if they were direct opposites to each other. smh Do you realise that the Suns position as against the rotation of the earth is one of the reasons why we talk about NORTH and TRUE NORTH which is not actually north but is regarded as the real north due to the Longitudinal and latitudinal position of the sun. You will never understand this and if you cannot understand it then you will never understand how one singular event would create a domino effect to other things.

For example you do not realise that Earth's rotational momentum to the Moon's orbital momentum as tidal friction slows the Earth's rotation. That increase in the Moon's speed is causing it to slowly recede from Earth (about 4 cm per year), increasing its orbital period and the length of a month as well. If you do not know this then you cannot calculate how the Julian Calender arrived at inserting a leap year into our calender every 4th year to make an average year 365.25 days. Its a backward effect which you would never understand.

Emperor Constantine, who was Roman Emperor from 306 CE until his death in 337 CE, used what motivates many to action - MONEY! He offered the various Church leaders money to agree upon a single canon that would be used by all Christians as the word of God. The Church leaders gathered together at the Council of Nicaea and voted the "word of God" into existence. The Church leaders didn't finish editing the "holy" scriptures until the Council of Trent when the Catholic Church pronounced the Canon closed. Therefore, one can easily argue that the first Christian Bible was commissioned, paid for, inspected and approved by a pagan emperor for church use.
My point is that there was obviously no divine command in the building of the canon, it was debated by people and obviously the best debaters won...

Constantine never influenced any of the books in the bible nor were the ‘wrong’ gospels selected into the Bible ever. We also know that this was not the case because both sides of the debate (Arius and Athanasius) used the same gospels and epistles (the ones that are in the Bible now) to argue their case. Arius and Athanasius did not disagree on what the scriptural documents stated, nor did they disagree on which documents should be ‘in’ the Bible. They disagreed, with heated debate, on the interpretation of these same scriptures. We know this because an account of the debates and intrigues of the Council of Nicaea and Constantine’s role in it is preserved for us in the reporting of Eusebius who was one of the delegates to this council. The writings of Athanasius are also preserved.

I suggest you take your time to read the preserved scripts of Eusebius yourself.

http://people.ucalgary.ca/~vandersp/Courses/texts/eusebius/eusepraf.html

I pride myself with research and i dont think you do.

lordnicklaus:
I am taken aback that you refered to his post in another thread that shouldn't be my business but that of the thread owner, show me his mistake in this thread and I will gladly reprimand him. And I must say, the thread is going quite well.

I dont like this disingeniousness . Go to the first page . Check out his comments ridiculing Christians and reprimand him .

[quote author=4everGod post=48343768][/quote]You are really beginning to piss me off...

I asked a simple question, that you have been biting around the bush, when did i tell you i was a geography major?, I cant know everything and if you were to come to my field, i most certainly would know lots of terminologies that you werent familiar with, that doesnt mean i would concluded that you are stupid or something and can never understand it...
I never for once claimed to know about geography, i only asked a simple question, if an unusual stopping of the earth happened that made one side of the earth have longer day, why ddnt the other side of the earth with longer night notice and record that weird event, and you are here giving me geography lesson...is that what i asked?
If you cant answer, then say so instead of speaking big words in geography to puff your chest.

Nb: what does the moon gravitational effect has to do with the biblical account of the sun standing still?

If not because of my code of not steeping low, i sincerely would have insulted you because you obviously dont know how to talk...just saying

[quote author=donnffd post=48344103]

You are really beginning to piss me off...

I asked a simple question, that you have been biting around the bush, when did i tell you i was a geography major?, I cant know everything and if you were to come to my field, i most certainly would know lots of terminologies that you werent familiar with, that doesnt mean i would concluded that you are stupid or something and can never understand it...
I never for once claimed to know about geography, i only asked a simple question, if an unusual stopping of the earth happened that made one side of the earth have longer day, why ddnt the other side of the earth with longer night notice and record that weird event, and you are here giving me geography lesson...is that what i asked?
If you cant answer, then say so instead of speaking big words in geography to puff your chest.

Your ignorance is pissing you off not me. If you cannot understand my simple geographic explanation then how could you understand and conclude that it never happened? Is nature your mate? Or is God your pupil?

Nb: what does the moon gravitational effect has to do with the biblical account of the sun standing still?

Same as above

winner01:
That's where you missed it man. The fear of God would have been more appropriate. The acknowledgement of his preeminence. You don't believe things out of fear. I don't spend time thinking about hell. As a matter of fact, i think about heaven most times and what it could look like. When you people emphasize the fear of hell and the devil, i can only wonder who indoctrinated you with such pathetic doctrines.

Una wan go heaven but una no wan die.

sighs

It is well.

[quote author=4everGod post=48344345][/quote]K

4kings:
Sorry, I thought Paul wrote that book.
Why do u think the book of Enoch is not inspired?
What's ur criteria for inspiration?

First, right from the time of Enoch in Genesis, there was a prophecy that a destruction was to come after the death of Methuselah. Enoch being a godly man too gave prophecies. The book of Enoch was written milleniums later after Enoch and it contains many outright, unscriptural errors. The author quoted Enoch's prophecy and named the book after him to endear it to the people

It was referenced in one of the gnostic teaching videos I watched earlier. The book of Susanna.

I doubt this. On the sermon on the mount, Jesus was establishing God's standards as against what had been generally accepted till that time that is why the people were astonished at the authority with which He taught. Just like saying hatred/anger is tantamount to murder was unknown in the OT.

Scholar8200:
First, right from the time of Enoch in Genesis, there was a prophecy that a destruction was to come after the death of Methuselah. Enoch being a godly man too gave prophecies. The book of Enoch was written milleniums later after Enoch and it contains many outright, unscriptural errors. The author quoted Enoch's prophecy and named the book after him to endear it to the people.

I doubt this. On the sermon on the mount, Jesus was establishing God's standards as against what had been generally accepted till that time that is why the people were astonished at the authority with which He taught. Just like saying hatred/anger is tantamount to murder was unknown in the OT.

The book of Susanna gave a story of two elders, to buttress that point, but I don't wanna go any further.
********
Scholars agree that the synoptic gospels were not written by eye witnesses(the disciples), but from a common source.
But this gospels, are still in the bible, since it propagated the existence of christ, isn't this proof of cherrypicking done by the early church fathers.

4kings:
The book of Susanna gave a story of two elders, to buttress that point, but I don't wanna go any further.
********
Scholars agree that the synoptic gospels were not written by eye witnesses(the disciples), but from a common source.
But this gospels, are still in the bible, since it propagated the existence of christ, isn't this proof of cherrypicking done by the early church fathers.

No. These apocryphas were there before Christ and they were commonly known as purely literary works, not Inspired. Most of them were written during the 400 years of Divine Silence.

Scholar8200:
No. These apocryphas were there before Christ and they were commonly known as purely literary works, not Inspired. Most of them were written during the 400 years of Divine Silence.

How do u distinguish in this context, a literary work from an inspired one?

4kings:
How do u distinguish in this context, a literary work from an inspired one?

Abeg quote me when he responds

hahn:
Abeg quote me when he responds

OK

4kings:
How do u distinguish in this context, a literary work from an inspired one?

How do I? Well, a cross-examination with history and past prophecies on the subject matter is a good starting point. A strong dependence on the Inspirer will undergird this effort though.

Besides, the writer lived milleniums after the real Enoch; he was neither an eye-witness nor a protege of the man whose name the book shares. Moreover, the book contains contradictions that are against the Bible; and major errors not in anyway congruent with the OT/NT/or immaterial based on pure infirmity :

1:1 Implies restoration during tribulation - not congruent with scriptures.
1:8 In conflict with the doctrine that peace was made at the cross. Also, in the last days tribulation will increase for the righteous - this "verse" seems to dispute that.
2:2-3 Appears to contradict 2 Pet 3:3-7
5:4 Is an admonition to some unknown party - this is very irregular relative to the scriptures (i.e. authentic ancient writings by God-fearing Jews)
6:3 Semjaza seems to be listed as the leader of the angels, which is not scriptural
6:3,8 None of these angels are mentioned in the Bible
8:1 Azazel isn't even listed in 6:8 as one of the angels that fornicated with women
8:3 Araqiel and Shamsiel aren't listed in 6:8 either
10:2 Enoch allegedly wrote about Noah, even though the Bible teaches that Enoch was taken up to heaven years before Noah was born.
10:4-6,12 Implies angels can be bound & hid in holes under rocks. This is contrary to scripture.
10:8 Ascribes all the sin of the fallen angels to one named Azazel - not scriptural.
10:15-11:2 Seems to imply that permanent restoration took place after the flood - clearly not true. It seems the true author of this book confused scriptures pertaining to the future restoration.
13:5-6,14:4-5,7 Implies fallen angels can't talk to God - this contradicts Job. Also implies that angels were repentant, but weren't received back by God - very strange doctrine.
14 Gives a very strange description of Heaven that conflicts with many scriptures
15:8-10 Very strange doctrine about "evil spirits" proceeding from unredeemable giants etc

http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/8576/why-is-the-book-of-enoch-not-regarded-as-canonical

Scholar8200:
How do I? Well, a cross-examination with history and past prophecies on the subject matter is a good starting point. A strong dependence on the Inspirer will undergird this effort though.

Besides, the writer lived milleniums after the real Enoch; he was neither an eye-witness nor a protege of the man whose name the book shares. Moreover, the book contains contradictions that are against the Bible; and major errors not in anyway congruent with the OT/NT/or immaterial based on pure infirmity :

1:1 Implies restoration during tribulation - not congruent with scriptures.
1:8 In conflict with the doctrine that peace was made at the cross. Also, in the last days tribulation will increase for the righteous - this "verse" seems to dispute that.
2:2-3 Appears to contradict 2 Pet 3:3-7
5:4 Is an admonition to some unknown party - this is very irregular relative to the scriptures (i.e. authentic ancient writings by God-fearing Jews)
6:3 Semjaza seems to be listed as the leader of the angels, which is not scriptural
6:3,8 None of these angels are mentioned in the Bible
8:1 Azazel isn't even listed in 6:8 as one of the angels that fornicated with women
8:3 Araqiel and Shamsiel aren't listed in 6:8 either
10:2 Enoch allegedly wrote about Noah, even though the Bible teaches that Enoch was taken up to heaven years before Noah was born.
10:4-6,12 Implies angels can be bound & hid in holes under rocks. This is contrary to scripture.
10:8 Ascribes all the sin of the fallen angels to one named Azazel - not scriptural.
10:15-11:2 Seems to imply that permanent restoration took place after the flood - clearly not true. It seems the true author of this book confused scriptures pertaining to the future restoration.
13:5-6,14:4-5,7 Implies fallen angels can't talk to God - this contradicts Job. Also implies that angels were repentant, but weren't received back by God - very strange doctrine.
14 Gives a very strange description of Heaven that conflicts with many scriptures
15:8-10 Very strange doctrine about "evil spirits" proceeding from unredeemable giants etc

http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/8576/why-is-the-book-of-enoch-not-regarded-as-canonical

Well I've read more than half of the book of Enoch and some points listed here are taken out of context; Lucifer was hardly mentioned, and I think that addresses the case of Job, Azazel was like a leader of the fallen angels on earth, and not the first of the fallen, he met with Enoch most of the time, but never really talked about the fall, he was just more powerful and Noah's flood was predicted.
I don't want to go any further to argue about the veracity of the book of Enoch.( Mind u Jesus, Jude and Paul quoted that book )
I just asked how do u distinguish an inspired book from one that is not inspired?, writers could have easily come together to make things correlate, in order to gain control, Just like Eusebius was the first person to quote a forged paragraph, in order to gain control.

[quote author=hahn post=48393603]

4kings:
Well I've read more than half of the book of Enoch and some points listed here are taken out of context; Lucifer was hardly mentioned, and I think that addresses the case of Job, Azazel was like a leader of the fallen angels on earth, and not the first of the fallen, he met with Enoch most of the time, but never really talked about the fall, he was just more powerful and Noah's flood was predicted.
I don't want to go any further to argue about the veracity of the book of Enoch.( Mind u Jesus, Jude and Paul quoted that book )
I just asked how do u distinguish an inspired book from one that is not inspired?, writers could have easily come together to make things correlate, in order to gain control, Just like Eusebius was the first person to quote a forged paragraph, in order to gain control.

Where ?

The fact that a person milleniums later quoted Enoch's prophecy tells you that it was known by some. (in fact, "Methuselah" was a prediction of an imminent judgement). Hence, that you find that prophecy in Jude does not mean that it was a quote from the Book of Enoch.

Moreover, since God inspired Enoch's prophecy, would it be anything if Jude was inspired to write what he wrote? Or was there any that would also claim to have supplied Jude with what transpired with Moses' dead body?

We would miss a lot if we fail to understand that God that inspires men to speak of things to happen centuries later, can also inspire same for records of events long gone!

Scholar8200:
Where ?

Google it.

Scholar8200:
The fact that a person milleniums later quoted Enoch's prophecy tells you that it was known by some. (in fact, "Methuselah" was a prediction of an imminent judgement). Hence, that you find that prophecy in Jude does not mean that it was a quote from the Book of Enoch.

But this prophecies were not written in another book. Besides, in those days of aloof cities and people, don't u think the person would have been easily caught considering the prophecies being well known.

Scholar8200:
Moreover, since God inspired Enoch's prophecy, would it be anything if Jude was inspired to write what he wrote? Or was there any that would also claim to have supplied Jude with what transpired with Moses' dead body?

Gosh, this is simply proof that he got the info from the Book, that existed before he was born.

Scholar8200:
We would miss a lot if we fail to understand that God that inspires men to speak of things to happen centuries later, can also inspire same for records of events long gone!

Huh?, he just picked out an info from the book.


Pls, let's not deviate, my unanswered question still stands.

4kings:
Google it.

Since you said Jesus,Paul etc quoted therefrom, perhaps you should show where.

But this prophecies were not written in another book. Besides, in those days of aloof cities and people, don't u think the person would have been easily caught considering the prophecies being well known.

I believe this must be one of the reasons why even the jews rejected those books!

Gosh, this is simply proof that he got the info from the Book, that existed before he was born.

No! Like you have in many tribes, history , sometimes unwritten, is transferred orally down the line. Enoch's prophecy matched the message by , "Methuselah' that destruction was coming. Hence, as long as the name is remembered, the events surrounding it too will not be forgotten! Hence, the book of Enoch was an author grabbing that aspect and fleeing with his imaginations.

Huh?, he just picked out an info from the book.

your assumption.

Pls, let's not deviate, my unanswered question still stands.

Which?

To all atheist remember. , there is alaw of life and law of death, hope you are ready for that

Scholar8200:
Since you said Jesus,Paul etc quoted therefrom, perhaps you should show where.

Jesus quoted the book more than 7times, check mat5:5- Enoch5:7&6:9, John5:22-Enoch69:27, mat26:24-Enoch38:2. Pls google d rest!, note that the book was in existence b4 jesus birth and the bible said jesus read scriptures.

Scholar8200:
I believe this must be one of the reasons why even the jews rejected those books!

Nope, the Jews(Judaism sect) have not rejected this book and some other apocryphas. This book was rejected in the council of nicea, by ur early church fathers.

Scholar8200:
No! Like you have in many tribes, history , sometimes unwritten, is transferred orally down the line. Enoch's prophecy matched the message by , "Methuselah' that destruction was coming. Hence, as long as the name is remembered, the events surrounding it too will not be forgotten! Hence, the book of Enoch was an author grabbing that aspect and fleeing with his imaginations.

Seriously, how does this explanation dispute my point

Scholar8200:
Which?

How do YOU distinguish an inspired book from one not inspired?

4kings:
Jesus quoted the book more than 7times, check mat5:5- Enoch5:7&6:9, John5:22-Enoch69:27, mat26:24-Enoch38:2. Pls google d rest!, note that the book was in existence b4 jesus birth and the bible said jesus read scriptures.

At the time of Jesus, the constant reference was the Law, Psalms and the Prophets . Where does this book of Enoch fall? The very fact that this book contains glaring contradictions compared to the Bible automatically makes it null and void.

Nope, the Jews(Judaism sect) have not rejected this book and some other apocryphas. This book was rejected in the council of nicea, by ur early church fathers.

See http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/apocrypha.html. They were called pseudepigraphia since that time because every one knew there origin and purpose:

"Books were attributed to [size=18pt]pagan authors[/size], and names drawn from the repertoire of biblical personalities, such as Adam, Noah, Enoch, Abraham, Moses, Elijah, Ezekiel, Baruch, and Jeremiah."

Hence, it was one of the earliest attempts to infiltrate the Truth! Same efforts was done on the Gospels.

Seriously, how does this explanation dispute my point


How do YOU distinguish an inspired book from one not inspired?

By a recourse to the Inspirer, and previous words spoken and revealed by Same!