Ranchhoddas:
Great points. How would we know where to draw the line? What the OP and others do not realise is that a lot of people derive their morality from faith. A large number of people are good because of their hope in one afterlife or the other. Hardened criminals have ''discovered'' Christ or any other deity and become good. What the OP is advocating is going to lead to anarchy and chaos. No matter the amount of disdain you possess for religion, an unbiased analysis will lead you to the conclusion that its merits far outweigh the demerits.

You've just said what has been on my mind for some time now.

A lot of people keep their cool because of their because of their religious beliefs. Take that away, and this world won't contain us anymore.

Everyone would define what is good and bad in his or her own way.

For example, Since there is no god( hence no eternal punishment), some people might think it okay to kill people for fun.

Just imagine a world where no one believes in any god; anything will go in that kinda world. Religion actually keeps the world in check.

The world operates based on the rules of religion. Although some of their rules are absurd, every religion preaches peace in one way or the other. And most people easily adhere to it because they believe it was set by one supreme being or the other. Now, If -- in a world where no one beliefs in a supreme being -- we humans decide to make a peace rule, it will not hold. No one would step down for anyone, No one would want to serve anyone and so on.

Religion is one of the factors that keep this world balanced. Take it out, and humanity is doomed!

Let's just leave people to believe what they want and try to be good people.

hahn:


An argumentum ad verecundiam is an argument based on authority. The Latin means "appeal to reverence". (Here, authorities mean people presumed to be experts, as opposed to people holding power over others--ScottJohnson)

Duh!! The authority in this case is James Baldwin.

Ranchhoddas:
Duh!! The authority in this case is James Baldwin.

Oh.

Regardless.

YOUR god doesn't exist either

hahn:


Oh.

Regardless.

YOUR god doesn't exist either

Do you know my God? What if I tell you Buhari is my God? Would you still say that?

Sealeddeal:
Maybe there is no reason condemning terrorists attacks since everybody will later die. And you too should stand in the middle of highway.

Lol!! Of course, bro.

Ranchhoddas:
Do you know my God? What if I tell you Buhari is my God? Would you still say that?

That's not bad. Humans have always served other humans. I can respect someone who takes another man as his god.

Some human are so smart that they created an invincible god, they get people to serve THAT god and act as a middleman and thus get treated as the god itself. The term "man of god" comes to mind

Great post by Seun. In as much as I agree with some points raised in the article, I strongly feel it doesn't add up for me to neither stop believing God exists or believing the Bible. There are so many events in my own life that practically make me understand that there is a supernatural force that rules in the affairs of men.

Like someone raised, one of the wrong assertions in your whole article is not the fact that religious people are suffering but that they need your help.

Seun and his self proclaimed authority on religion and the religious. I am on mobile and I will be back to respond when I am on my PC.

Seun:
Religious People Are Suffering & They Need Our Help

People often ask outspoken atheists why they like to argue with religious people. "If you don't believe in God", they ask, "why do you spend so much time attacking people's religious beliefs?" They often respond by saying, "religious people keep trying to impose their religious beliefs on us through evangelism and politics, so we have to defend ourselves." Atheists that don't feel threatened usually choose to remain silent. I used to be a pretty quiet atheist myself, until I noticed something about religious people that I hadn't noticed before. Religious people are suffering!

Religion is not a harmless delusion. It's not a benign folly that merely wastes people's time. It's a malignant malady that systematically robs the majority of humanity of their freedom, pleasure, joy, comfort, knowledge, intelligence, health, money, lives, and much more. It would be selfish of us as atheists who are free from religion not to make every effort to free people from religion so that they can have much better lives.

Many religious people are not allowed to have blood transfusions. This means thousands of religious men, women and children have died from treatable medical conditions, such as pregnancies with any kind of complications, non-fatal car accidents, treatable gunshot wounds, etc. simply because they are not allowed to accept blood transfusions. So many children have become orphans needlessly; so many men and women became widows and widowers; so many fathers and mothers lost their children. All because of a religious rule that make no sense at all.

Many religious people are forbidden by their religions from enjoying most of the good things in life. Things like secular or instrumental music, fine art, poetry, sculpture, owning dogs, wearing make-up, friendship with the opposite sex, eating ram meat, eating sausages, pleasuring yourself or the opposite sex, watching fantasy movies or reading fantasy novels like harry potter, making friends outside the religion, dancing, tattoos, playing ludo because it relies on luck, barbie dolls, sexy clothes etc. Can you imagine what your life would be like if you had to forgo most of these wonderful things? Horribly boring. You'd probably kill yourself. I guess that's why many religious people are violent.

Most religious people believe in the afterlife. As a result, instead of focusing on the current life and trying to make it as enjoyable as possible for themselves, their friends, and family members, they endure shitty and miserable lives in the hope that they'll be rewarded after they die. An extreme case of this is the case of suicide bombers and religious fighters who embrace violent deaths for the sake of an imaginary paradise.

Many religious people are pressured to give a sizable proportion of their income to the religious establishments they worship with. Poor people are taught that the best way to get rich is not to save their money and invest in education and entrepreneurship, but to "sow" it by giving it to their rich religious leaders who will use it to live flamboyantly, and build religious monuments to attract more cash cows. When this stupid idea of "sowing"doesn't make the poor people rich, they are told that it's because they don't have faith, have sin in their lives, etc.

Many religious people are made to believe that the secret to good health and healing is prayer, having been brainwashed by dishonest sermons and misleading testimonies. When they have health problems, instead of going to good hospitals, they embark on prayer and fasting. When their friends slump due to heart attacks or strokes or seizures, they start praying on them instead of rushing them to good hospitals where they can get competent medical help. People have died of curable diseases like malaria because they didn't accept treatment until it was too late.

Many religious people are tolerant and liberal by nature, but due to certain verses in their holy scriptures, they feel that they must be intolerant of various groups of people that God supposedly doesn't like, such as lesbians and transexuals. They are against abortion, which they think is murder, but also against sex education, which reduces abortion rates dramatically, because they think it may encourage premarital safe sex. As a result their daughters end up getting pregnant outside wedlock, having illegal abortions, and dying despite their opposition to abortion.

Many religious people are women, and it sucks to be them because the scriptures of the major religions are clearly sexist. One scripture claims that women must be quiet and submit to men because man were created first and woman came from man, which is rather suspicious because in real life it's women who give birth to men. Another scripture proudly asserts that woman are deficient in intelligence and piety. There are almost no female prophets, apostles or disciples. The few famous women in major scriptures are famous not for personal exploits but for giving birth to important men, marrying them, or leading them astray (Eve, Jezebel). Religious women can't live up to their full potential.

And don't even get me started on the horrible treatment of "demon-possessed" people (the mentally ill) and "child witches".

Clearly, religious people are suffering. Our parents, siblings, and children. Our friends, crushes, and admirers. Our colleague, bosses, and employees. To save them, we who are atheists must come out of our closets and start speaking out; challenging them and educating them.

I know your issue is what is good or bad;life and death. Without people dying there will not be life eternal or hell. If there is no God why do three quarter of the world belief in one form of God or there other. Seun take a deep breath and ask yourself if you are born by accident or purpose..Jeremiah 1:4-6

the thing is atheism brings responsibility, once you have known that you are responsible for ur life not a sky daddy or mommy and seun abeg how do we go about the plan

Geofavor:
You've just said what has been on my mind for some time now.

A lot of people keep their cool because of their because of their religious beliefs. Take that away, and this world won't contain us anymore.

Everyone would define what is good and bad in his or her own way.

For example, Since there is no god( hence no eternal punishment), some people might think it okay to kill people for fun.

Just imagine a world where no one believes in any god; anything will go in that kinda world. Religion actually keeps the world in check.

The world operates based on the rules of religion. Although some of their rules are absurd, every religion preaches peace in one way or the other. And most people easily adhere to it because they believe it was set by one supreme being or the other. Now, If -- in a world where no one beliefs in a supreme being -- we humans decide to make a peace rule, it will not hold. No one would step down for anyone, No one would want to serve anyone and so on.

Religion is one of the factors that keep this world balanced. Take it out, and humanity is doomed!

Let's just leave people to believe what they want and try to be good people.

Agreed.

Religion has been constructive in mankind's civilization. Even the strongest/richest/worst bully is scared of the unknown and religion has claimed to be an expert on the unknown.

But unfortunately; it has rebounded on itself. Each religion claims to hold central truth to itself and claims the other is false. Hence they have resorted to using force, suicide explosions; genocide and mass brutality to "convince" others of their religion- all approved of their God, of course.

Besides, mankind doesn't use religion as the basis of justice anymore. Most constitutions do not recognize a divine authority as the sole owner of punishment and mercy.

And hey, many irreligious countries also experience peace.

Religious leaders have brainwashed most of its congregation just as the politicians do to their subjects.. I am a Christian by religion and i dont subscribe to everything my Pastor tells...because everyone has got his/her idea and perception about life...and the fact that he is my pastor doesn't mean he is always right...

People should just conscientize themselves and stop falling for the scam of religion... these religious leaders are human like us and most of them are scam...

see the nonsense Seun has cooked up again now. What's up with the guy sef.

if seun won't propose a plan lemee start by saying lets meet somewhere open and discuss all this

Ranchhoddas:
Great points. How would we know where to draw the line? What the OP and others do not realise is that a lot of people derive their morality from faith. A large number of people are good because of their hope in one afterlife or the other. Hardened criminals have ''discovered'' Christ or any other deity and become good. What the OP is advocating is going to lead to anarchy and chaos. No matter the amount of disdain you possess for religion, an unbiased analysis will lead you to the conclusion that its merits far outweigh the demerits.

Meh, what you fail to realize is that people understand the intrinsic difference between good and evil?

And what is this intrinsic difference between good and evil? What's this moral sense?

It's merely the elaboration of the instinct to survive. The collective rules and laws of the society is based on the preservation of the species.

We are highly intelligent and competitive animals. Unfortunately; our competitveness kicks against the idea of us leaving together as a group and forming a country. Small groups are acceptable (the mostly peaceful countries in this world are usually very small ones) but large groups; bunched together, tends to bring a conflagration of ideas and opinions; some of them hostile to one another. Hence, a solution is needed. A way of binding a large number of people must be found.

Some rulers used brute force and that worked......for a while.

But others used religion and built an empire.

Unfortunately, quite unfortunately, religions don't agree with one another. This person's religion is against that one's religion. Rather than them flowing with one another, they are directly headbutting each other.


The only conceivable solutions here are.

1) Prove the ultimately "true" religion

2) Be Neutral and accept no religion.


Since option 1 has not yet been proven (nor I think, will ever be); option 2 should be given a try.



Or so I think.

Ranchhoddas:
Great points. How would we know where to draw the line? What the OP and others do not realise is that a lot of people derive their morality from faith. A large number of people are good because of their hope in one afterlife or the other. Hardened criminals have ''discovered'' Christ or any other deity and become good. What the OP is advocating is going to lead to anarchy and chaos. No matter the amount of disdain you possess for religion, an unbiased analysis will lead you to the conclusion that its merits far outweigh the demerits.

Try empathy, imagine what it feels like to be someone and on the receiving end of your actions.

Codedrock:
Seun i am really loving all these your topics oo.. Even though i still believe there is God, i am so against being religious. bro you are really doing a great job with these topics. I think i was already in transition to being an atheist(after i quit church) before you started your Faith related topics and i have been enjoying them, not to mention we reason the same way. I still choose to believe there is God though.
Been seriously studying that Evolution theory but my abstract thinking ability is just so not agreeing with that right now.

Atheism is simply the disbelief in god. As simple as ABC u dnt need to subscribe to the big bang or whatever theory before u become an atheist..am an atheist but i dnt subscribe to the big bang.. I just dont believe in an almighty god. Simple

naijababe:


I will ignore your slight for now, but I won't be so lenient next time. Watch your language, I am not in the habit of ad hominem as many of you are wont to do here but if you push me, I will e-kick your ar5e.

He simply asked you to sensibly reply.

I don't see anything insulting there

shaybebaby:

Try empathy, imagine what it feels like to be someone and on the receiving end of your actions.

''Do unto others as you would want them to to do unto you'' is a fundamental tenet of most if not all faiths. A large number of their adherents who otherwise would not have bothered subscribe to this because of their beliefs. That's my point.

Ranchhoddas:
''Do unto others as you would want them to to do unto you'' is a fundamental tenet of most if not all faiths. A large number of their adherents who otherwise would not have bothered subscribe to this because of their beliefs. That's my point.

Yet if they truly felt the meaning of such sentiment, then Seun's observation will not be. So inspite of their religiousity, they are not truly empathetic.
Their faith is self serving.

SirWere:


Meh, what you fail to realize is that people understand the intrinsic difference between good and evil?

And what is this intrinsic difference between good and evil? What's this moral sense?

It's merely the elaboration of the instinct to survive. The collective rules and laws of the society is based on the preservation of the species.

We are highly intelligent and competitive animals. Unfortunately; our competitveness kicks against the idea of us leaving together as a group and forming a country. Small groups are acceptable (the mostly peaceful countries in this world are usually very small ones) but large groups; bunched together, tends to bring a conflagration of ideas and opinions; some of them hostile to one another. Hence, a solution is needed. A way of binding a large number of people must be found.

Some rulers used brute force and that worked......for a while.

But others used religion and built an empire.

Unfortunately, quite unfortunately, religions don't agree with one another. This person's religion is against that one's religion. Rather than them flowing with one another, they are directly headbutting each other.


The only conceivable solutions here are.

1) Prove the ultimately "true" religion

2) Be Neutral and accept no religion.


Since option 1 has not yet been proven (nor I think, will ever be); option 2 should be given a try.



Or so I think.

Whether religions agree with one another is besides the point. The question is whether religion serves as a good ''binding force'' in societies where they are found.

Ranchhoddas:
Whether religions agree with one another is besides the point. The question is whether religion serves as a good ''binding force'' in societies where they are found.

Technically, they do serve as a binding point. Many mono-religious societies are found peaceful. European countries with a recognized religions are relatively peaceful

But they also serve as a downer in some religious societies.

Take the case of the Middleeast and the sunni/shite muslims for example.

Religion binds them but only an external "foreigners" or infidels.

shaybebaby:

Yet if they truly felt the meaning of such sentiment, then Seun's observation will not be. So inspite of their religiousity, they are not truly empathetic.
Their faith is self serving.

If you and Seun would agree to tell yourselves the truth, you'd see that a very large majority of religious people adhere to the teachings of their faith. The people causing the problems are usually the minority. It's not like there are no evil atheists...or is it?

SirWere:


Technically, they do serve as a binding point. Many mono-religious societies are found peaceful. European countries with a recognized religions are relatively peaceful

But they also serve as a downer in some religious societies.

Take the case of the Middleeast and the sunni/shite muslims for example.

Religion binds them but only an external "foreigners" or infidels.

So religion is not the problem per se but just the multiplicity of it. This is also the case when there is a multiplicity of cultures, ethnic groups, political parties etc. Things naturally tend to go awry. What we just need to look for is common ground and not like an earlier posted stated ''throw away the baby with the bath water''.

Ranchhoddas:
If you and Seun would agree to tell yourselves the truth, you'd see that a very large majority of religious people adhere to the teachings of their faith. The people causing the problems are usually the minority. It's not like there are no evil atheists...or is it?

I do not the see the impact in everyday lives in Nigeria where most are religious and are suffering.
How come our religious fervour hasn't translated to being our brother's keeper? Because if all our peeps were doing that, their numbers alone would guarantee a fairly peaceful and loving nation.
So if they are applying it, why is its impact not evident in the society?

SirWere:
He simply asked you to sensibly reply.
I don't see anything insulting there

You shouldn't waste your time correcting people like her.

Please by all means, eradicate religion.

The movement to eradicate religion has started since the 14th century, try your luck too.

Just be ready to kill several people just as former atheist leaders did. Without that, your great grand children will open this same thread with the same title in 200 years time.

iamtewwy:



Atheism is simply the disbelief in god. As simple as ABC u dnt need to subscribe to the big bang or whatever theory before u become an atheist..am an atheist but i dnt subscribe to the big bang.. I just dont believe in an almighty god. Simple

Well, I know. And that's why I'm not an atheist.

shaybebaby:

I do not the see the impact in everyday lives in Nigeria where most are religious and are suffering.
How come our religious fervour hasn't translated to being our brother's keeper? Because if all our peeps were doing that, their numbers alone would guarantee a fairly peaceful and loving nation.
So if they are applying it, why is its impact not evident in the society?

How did you come to the conclusion that the suffering is as a result of their religious fervour? Are there no prospering religious nations? Are there also no non-prospering non-religious nations? Are you really trying to tell me that the backwardness of Nigeria is as a result of religion? Do you really think that atheism or unbelief in whatever guise will make our leaders to stop embezzling public funds? Common.

winner01:
Please by all means, eradicate religion.

The movement to eradicate religion has started since the 14th century, try your luck too.

Just be ready to kill several people just as former atheist leaders did. Without that, your great grand children will open this same thread with the same title in 200 years time.

This world still get 200 years? No be endtime we dey again?