Ranchhoddas:
Great points. How would we know where to draw the line? What the OP and others do not realise is that a lot of people derive their morality from faith. A large number of people are good because of their hope in one afterlife or the other. Hardened criminals have ''discovered'' Christ or any other deity and become good. What the OP is advocating is going to lead to anarchy and chaos. No matter the amount of disdain you possess for religion, an unbiased analysis will lead you to the conclusion that its merits far outweigh the demerits.

Geofavor:
You've just said what has been on my mind for some time now.

A lot of people keep their cool because of their because of their religious beliefs. Take that away, and this world won't contain us anymore.

Everyone would define what is good and bad in his or her own way.

For example, Since there is no god( hence no eternal punishment), some people might think it okay to kill people for fun.

Just imagine a world where no one believes in any god; anything will go in that kinda world. Religion actually keeps the world in check.

The world operates based on the rules of religion. Although some of their rules are absurd, every religion preaches peace in one way or the other. And most people easily adhere to it because they believe it was set by one supreme being or the other. Now, If -- in a world where no one beliefs in a supreme being -- we humans decide to make a peace rule, it will not hold. No one would step down for anyone, No one would want to serve anyone and so on.

Religion is one of the factors that keep this world balanced. Take it out, and humanity is doomed!

Let's just leave people to believe what they want and try to be good people.

Ranchhoddas:
This world still get 200years? No be endtime we dey again?

winner01:
If the bible was written over a period of 4500 years, and 2000 years after, some people are saying end time is taking forever. I can only smile. Only God knows the hour.

Ranchhoddas:
How did you come to the conclusion that the suffering is as a result of their religious fervour? Are there no prospering religious nations? Are there also no non-prospering non-religious nations? Are you really trying to tell me that the backwardness of Nigeria is as a result of religion? Do you really think that atheism or unbelief in whatever guise will make our leaders to stop embezzling public funds? Common.

Seun:
Religious People Are Suffering & They Need Our Help

People often ask outspoken atheists why they like to argue with religious people. "If you don't believe in God", they ask, "why do you spend so much time attacking people's religious beliefs?" They often respond by saying, "religious people keep trying to impose their religious beliefs on us through evangelism and politics, so we have to defend ourselves." Atheists that don't feel threatened usually choose to remain silent. I used to be a pretty quiet atheist myself, until I noticed something about religious people that I hadn't noticed before. Religious people are suffering!

Religion is not a harmless delusion. It's not a benign folly that merely wastes people's time. It's a malignant malady that systematically robs the majority of humanity of their freedom, pleasure, joy, comfort, knowledge, intelligence, health, money, lives, and much more. It would be selfish of us as atheists who are free from religion not to make every effort to free people from religion so that they can have much better lives.

Many religious people are not allowed to have blood transfusions. This means thousands of religious men, women and children have died from treatable medical conditions, such as pregnancies with any kind of complications, non-fatal car accidents, treatable gunshot wounds, etc. simply because they are not allowed to accept blood transfusions. So many children have become orphans needlessly; so many men and women became widows and widowers; so many fathers and mothers lost their children. All because of a religious rule that make no sense at all.

Many religious people are forbidden by their religions from enjoying most of the good things in life. Things like secular or instrumental music, fine art, poetry, sculpture, owning dogs, wearing make-up, friendship with the opposite sex, eating ram meat, eating sausages, pleasuring yourself or the opposite sex, watching fantasy movies or reading fantasy novels like harry potter, making friends outside the religion, dancing, tattoos, playing ludo because it relies on luck, barbie dolls, sexy clothes etc. Can you imagine what your life would be like if you had to forgo most of these wonderful things? Horribly boring. You'd probably kill yourself. I guess that's why many religious people are violent.

Most religious people believe in the afterlife. As a result, instead of focusing on the current life and trying to make it as enjoyable as possible for themselves, their friends, and family members, they endure shitty and miserable lives in the hope that they'll be rewarded after they die. An extreme case of this is the case of suicide bombers and religious fighters who embrace violent deaths for the sake of an imaginary paradise.

Many religious people are pressured to give a sizable proportion of their income to the religious establishments they worship with. Poor people are taught that the best way to get rich is not to save their money and invest in education and entrepreneurship, but to "sow" it by giving it to their rich religious leaders who will use it to live flamboyantly, and build religious monuments to attract more cash cows. When this stupid idea of "sowing"doesn't make the poor people rich, they are told that it's because they don't have faith, have sin in their lives, etc.

Many religious people are made to believe that the secret to good health and healing is prayer, having been brainwashed by dishonest sermons and misleading testimonies. When they have health problems, instead of going to good hospitals, they embark on prayer and fasting. When their friends slump due to heart attacks or strokes or seizures, they start praying on them instead of rushing them to good hospitals where they can get competent medical help. People have died of curable diseases like malaria because they didn't accept treatment until it was too late.

Many religious people are tolerant and liberal by nature, but due to certain verses in their holy scriptures, they feel that they must be intolerant of various groups of people that God supposedly doesn't like, such as lesbians and transexuals. They are against abortion, which they think is murder, but also against sex education, which reduces abortion rates dramatically, because they think it may encourage premarital safe sex. As a result their daughters end up getting pregnant outside wedlock, having illegal abortions, and dying despite their opposition to abortion.

Many religious people are women, and it sucks to be them because the scriptures of the major religions are clearly sexist. One scripture claims that women must be quiet and submit to men because man were created first and woman came from man, which is rather suspicious because in real life it's women who give birth to men. Another scripture proudly asserts that woman are deficient in intelligence and piety. There are almost no female prophets, apostles or disciples. The few famous women in major scriptures are famous not for personal exploits but for giving birth to important men, marrying them, or leading them astray (Eve, Jezebel). Religious women can't live up to their full potential.

And don't even get me started on the horrible treatment of "demon-possessed" people (the mentally ill) and "child witches".

Clearly, religious people are suffering. Our parents, siblings, and children. Our friends, crushes, and admirers. Our colleague, bosses, and employees. To save them, we who are atheists must come out of our closets and start speaking out; challenging them and educating them.

kennynelcon:


You can Help anyone but don't force...for the sowing If you have not tasted it, please keep calm.
Finally remember Christianity is not the only religion on earth.
DON'T DISCRIMINATE.
PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH.

Ranchhoddas:
So religion is not the problem per se but just the multiplicity of it. This is also the case when there is a multiplicity of cultures, ethnic groups, political parties etc. Things naturally tend to go awry. What we just need to look for is common ground and not like an earlier posted stated ''throw away the baby with the bath water''.

SirWere:


Agreed.

Religion has been constructive in mankind's civillization. Even the strongest/richest/worst bully is scared of the unknown and religion has claimed to be an expert on the unknown.

But unfortunately; it has rebounded on itself. Each religion claims to hold central truth to itself and claims the other is false. Hence they have resorted to using force, suicide explosions; genocide and mass brutality to "convince" others of their religion- all approved of their God, of course.

Besides, mankind doesn't use religion as the basis of justice anymore. Most constitutions do not recognize a divine authority as the sole owner of punishment and mercy.

And hey, many irreligious countries also experience peace.

Omooba77:


I know your issue is what is good or bad;life and death. Without people dying there will not be life eternal or hell. If there is no God why do three quarter of the world belief in one form of God or there other. Seun take a deep breath and ask yourself if you are born by accident or purpose..Jeremiah 1:4-6

Seun:
Religious People Are Suffering & They Need Our Help

People often ask outspoken atheists why they like to argue with religious people. "If you don't believe in God", they ask, "why do you spend so much time attacking people's religious beliefs?" They often respond by saying, "religious people keep trying to impose their religious beliefs on us through evangelism and politics, so we have to defend ourselves." Atheists that don't feel threatened usually choose to remain silent. I used to be a pretty quiet atheist myself, until I noticed something about religious people that I hadn't noticed before. Religious people are suffering!

Religion is not a harmless delusion. It's not a benign folly that merely wastes people's time. It's a malignant malady that systematically robs the majority of humanity of their freedom, pleasure, joy, comfort, knowledge, intelligence, health, money, lives, and much more. It would be selfish of us as atheists who are free from religion not to make every effort to free people from religion so that they can have much better lives.

Many religious people are not allowed to have blood transfusions. This means thousands of religious men, women and children have died from treatable medical conditions, such as pregnancies with any kind of complications, non-fatal car accidents, treatable gunshot wounds, etc. simply because they are not allowed to accept blood transfusions. So many children have become orphans needlessly; so many men and women became widows and widowers; so many fathers and mothers lost their children. All because of a religious rule that make no sense at all.

Many religious people are forbidden by their religions from enjoying most of the good things in life. Things like secular or instrumental music, fine art, poetry, sculpture, owning dogs, wearing make-up, friendship with the opposite sex, eating ram meat, eating sausages, pleasuring yourself or the opposite sex, watching fantasy movies or reading fantasy novels like harry potter, making friends outside the religion, dancing, tattoos, playing ludo because it relies on luck, barbie dolls, sexy clothes etc. Can you imagine what your life would be like if you had to forgo most of these wonderful things? Horribly boring. You'd probably kill yourself. I guess that's why many religious people are violent.

Most religious people believe in the afterlife. As a result, instead of focusing on the current life and trying to make it as enjoyable as possible for themselves, their friends, and family members, they endure shitty and miserable lives in the hope that they'll be rewarded after they die. An extreme case of this is the case of suicide bombers and religious fighters who embrace violent deaths for the sake of an imaginary paradise.

Many religious people are pressured to give a sizable proportion of their income to the religious establishments they worship with. Poor people are taught that the best way to get rich is not to save their money and invest in education and entrepreneurship, but to "sow" it by giving it to their rich religious leaders who will use it to live flamboyantly, and build religious monuments to attract more cash cows. When this stupid idea of "sowing"doesn't make the poor people rich, they are told that it's because they don't have faith, have sin in their lives, etc.

Many religious people are made to believe that the secret to good health and healing is prayer, having been brainwashed by dishonest sermons and misleading testimonies. When they have health problems, instead of going to good hospitals, they embark on prayer and fasting. When their friends slump due to heart attacks or strokes or seizures, they start praying on them instead of rushing them to good hospitals where they can get competent medical help. People have died of curable diseases like malaria because they didn't accept treatment until it was too late.

Many religious people are tolerant and liberal by nature, but due to certain verses in their holy scriptures, they feel that they must be intolerant of various groups of people that God supposedly doesn't like, such as lesbians and transexuals. They are against abortion, which they think is murder, but also against sex education, which reduces abortion rates dramatically, because they think it may encourage premarital safe sex. As a result their daughters end up getting pregnant outside wedlock, having illegal abortions, and dying despite their opposition to abortion.

Many religious people are women, and it sucks to be them because the scriptures of the major religions are clearly sexist. One scripture claims that women must be quiet and submit to men because man were created first and woman came from man, which is rather suspicious because in real life it's women who give birth to men. Another scripture proudly asserts that woman are deficient in intelligence and piety. There are almost no female prophets, apostles or disciples. The few famous women in major scriptures are famous not for personal exploits but for giving birth to important men, marrying them, or leading them astray (Eve, Jezebel). Religious women can't live up to their full potential.

And don't even get me started on the horrible treatment of "demon-possessed" people (the mentally ill) and "child witches".

Clearly, religious people are suffering. Our parents, siblings, and children. Our friends, crushes, and admirers. Our colleague, bosses, and employees. To save them, we who are atheists must come out of our closets and start speaking out; challenging them and educating them.

Seun:
Religious People Are Suffering & They Need Our Help

People often ask outspoken atheists why they like to argue with religious people. "If you don't believe in God", they ask, "why do you spend so much time attacking people's religious beliefs?" They often respond by saying, "religious people keep trying to impose their religious beliefs on us through evangelism and politics, so we have to defend ourselves." Atheists that don't feel threatened usually choose to remain silent. I used to be a pretty quiet atheist myself, until I noticed something about religious people that I hadn't noticed before. Religious people are suffering!

Religion is not a harmless delusion. It's not a benign folly that merely wastes people's time. It's a malignant malady that systematically robs the majority of humanity of their freedom, pleasure, joy, comfort, knowledge, intelligence, health, money, lives, and much more. It would be selfish of us as atheists who are free from religion not to make every effort to free people from religion so that they can have much better lives.

Many religious people are not allowed to have blood transfusions. This means thousands of religious men, women and children have died from treatable medical conditions, such as pregnancies with any kind of complications, non-fatal car accidents, treatable gunshot wounds, etc. simply because they are not allowed to accept blood transfusions. So many children have become orphans needlessly; so many men and women became widows and widowers; so many fathers and mothers lost their children. All because of a religious rule that make no sense at all.

Many religious people are forbidden by their religions from enjoying most of the good things in life. Things like secular or instrumental music, fine art, poetry, sculpture, owning dogs, wearing make-up, friendship with the opposite sex, eating ram meat, eating sausages, pleasuring yourself or the opposite sex, watching fantasy movies or reading fantasy novels like harry potter, making friends outside the religion, dancing, tattoos, playing ludo because it relies on luck, barbie dolls, sexy clothes etc. Can you imagine what your life would be like if you had to forgo most of these wonderful things? Horribly boring. You'd probably kill yourself. I guess that's why many religious people are violent.

Most religious people believe in the afterlife. As a result, instead of focusing on the current life and trying to make it as enjoyable as possible for themselves, their friends, and family members, they endure shitty and miserable lives in the hope that they'll be rewarded after they die. An extreme case of this is the case of suicide bombers and religious fighters who embrace violent deaths for the sake of an imaginary paradise.

Many religious people are pressured to give a sizable proportion of their income to the religious establishments they worship with. Poor people are taught that the best way to get rich is not to save their money and invest in education and entrepreneurship, but to "sow" it by giving it to their rich religious leaders who will use it to live flamboyantly, and build religious monuments to attract more cash cows. When this stupid idea of "sowing"doesn't make the poor people rich, they are told that it's because they don't have faith, have sin in their lives, etc.

Many religious people are made to believe that the secret to good health and healing is prayer, having been brainwashed by dishonest sermons and misleading testimonies. When they have health problems, instead of going to good hospitals, they embark on prayer and fasting. When their friends slump due to heart attacks or strokes or seizures, they start praying on them instead of rushing them to good hospitals where they can get competent medical help. People have died of curable diseases like malaria because they didn't accept treatment until it was too late.

Many religious people are tolerant and liberal by nature, but due to certain verses in their holy scriptures, they feel that they must be intolerant of various groups of people that God supposedly doesn't like, such as lesbians and transexuals. They are against abortion, which they think is murder, but also against sex education, which reduces abortion rates dramatically, because they think it may encourage premarital safe sex. As a result their daughters end up getting pregnant outside wedlock, having illegal abortions, and dying despite their opposition to abortion.

Many religious people are women, and it sucks to be them because the scriptures of the major religions are clearly sexist. One scripture claims that women must be quiet and submit to men because man were created first and woman came from man, which is rather suspicious because in real life it's women who give birth to men. Another scripture proudly asserts that woman are deficient in intelligence and piety. There are almost no female prophets, apostles or disciples. The few famous women in major scriptures are famous not for personal exploits but for giving birth to important men, marrying them, or leading them astray (Eve, Jezebel). Religious women can't live up to their full potential.

And don't even get me started on the horrible treatment of "demon-possessed" people (the mentally ill) and "child witches".

Clearly, religious people are suffering. Our parents, siblings, and children. Our friends, crushes, and admirers. Our colleague, bosses, and employees. To save them, we who are atheists must come out of our closets and start speaking out; challenging them and educating them.

shaybebaby:

Yet the same leaders wine and dine with religious leaders that the masses look up to.
I am saying that if we are all so religious, why aren't we helping each other?
Why are we blind to the suffering of others? Why do people say they will pray rather than doing something practical to alleviate the suffering of others?
The masses have lost all belief in their own power as religion has been used to brainwash them into thinking that cannot be active participants in changing their own lives.
I read on another thread (it was hilarious but sad) how a kid answered his exam question-he didn't know the answer and instead started begging for mercy in the name of Jesus and mentioning where he worships, also saying that the teacher should let God touch her heart so as not to fail him.
That is the sort of fervour commonplace in Nigeria and as a consequence, people absolve themselves of taking responsibility for their own lives. That sort of thinking is saying to yourself you are powerless in the face of whatever life might throw at you and at the mercy of your God. When a simple revision would have removed the need of begging with Gods name.
Now if you feel that helpless to help yourself, how can you begin to feel like you can help someone else? You do the same as with your self, wait for someone else step in. So everyone is waiting for God to intervene.
Now just try to imagine that there is no God, no one to come to anyone's rescue, what would you do in that instance?
Whatever that is is what Nigerians need to start doing...but at it's heart, putting the collective social wellbeing of every citizen.

cloudgoddess:




Hmm, I disagree. How do places like Norway, China, Japan etc. keep the peace, and continue developing at such steady rates despite them being the most atheist & secular countries on earth? From what I've researched, atheist/non-religious/secular countries and societies are doing better across the globe. Less crime, better healthcare, more educated, more equality, higher life expectancy, the list goes on.

I think any society of human beings, regardless of race demographics or geographical location, is capable of prospering secularly. Psychology & neuroscience are making great headway in the areas of emotional & mental health and well-being, interpersonal interaction, etc. Books are being written, techniques and practices are being developed, courses and seminars are taking place, that focus on teaching how to relate to ourselves and eachother better, and be more peaceful, compassionate, co-operative and happy, in ways that acknowledge & work with our human nature.

These things can be taught and maintained without religion, and likely even more effectively so, if only we could wake people up and get them to learn. People lean on religion because they think it's the only thing that can satisfy our inner needs. But imho it's just a placebo.

Geofavor:
Incorrect!

Every rules and regulation set by mankind, when traced back to their origin, are based on one religious belief or the other. Only a few modification is being made in an attempt to 'satisfy all'. E.g the legalization of homosexualism in the US and some other countries. This doesn't mean their rules and regulations are not based on religious beliefs.

I don't think there's anything such as an irreligious country. Every country has at least a significant amount of theists.

I'm telling you the only reason a lot of people follow and obey the constitution of their respective countries is actually because it conforms with their religious beliefs. If not, they wouldn't.

Therefore, when rules are set, it is based on the religious beliefs of the people.

There has to be that unique and supreme reverence -- God. The truth is people wouldn't abstain from doing something just because some other people say so. Even voting wouldn't work. Democracy is for the people, not all the people. If there were no religious beliefs that make people believe they should make peace, you think anyone would accept defeat?

Humans are filled with greed and all sorts of petrifying character that can only be calmed by their reverence for a supreme being, not a fellow being.

If everyone thought there is no god, everyone would define what is right and what is wrong their own way. There would be no government. Who would succumb to another man's rule?

Ranchhoddas:
Great points. How would we know where to draw the line? What the OP and others do not realise is that a lot of people derive their morality from faith. A large number of people are good because of their hope in one afterlife or the other. Hardened criminals have ''discovered'' Christ or any other deity and become good. What the OP is advocating is going to lead to anarchy and chaos. No matter the amount of disdain you possess for religion, an unbiased analysis will lead you to the conclusion that its merits far outweigh the demerits.

Ranchhoddas:
@ Naijababe. You are the real MVP!!

SirWere:


Ahh, true. Many efforts are being made by the more enlightened; less fundamentalist religious groups to find some common ground with the opposite side. And in each case, they've met with partial success.

However, each of the sides have some deranged members who wake up each day and decide those groups trying to find common ground are going against their deities will and states it explicity in their various scriptures.

Some even resort to brute force, suicide bombings, verbal attacks, defamation of characters et al et al.

Each of these deranged member truly believe he or she is right- their ultimate conviction is that they are justified. Some even say their particular deity told them!

In each case; many of the members of that particular religious group condemn such acts; they call them the few "bad eggs"; they post memes and "unite" against such evil acts.

....and yet, and yet, the attacks on the "unbelievers" or "infidels" continue.

Why is it that it is among the most religious that we see the highest degree of fanaticism; the strongest level of denying reality? Why is it that the most commited to any particular religion are the most violent? The ones most particularly commited to evil acts or harsh words??

Granted, moves to cancel religion are most extreme. The best one can do now is to reduce the level of religiosity amongst people.

And then; time will take care of things.

honourhim:


For the first time i commend your reasoning here. You made sense.

theoneJabulani:
Indeed we should BT is this Nigerian society ready to accept the truth?

01Mysticdon:
I'm not religious but I hate abortion. I don't like the idea.

ccffwx:
GOD did not make man superior to woman. Man and woman are of one specie of being. That things are done for order to exist does not mean that I'm superior to you. On judgment day, everybody will be judged same. So I'm saying that it's not GOD's idea but human interpretation that man is superior thisthat as you pointed out in the post. Thanks.

peacesamuel94:
... atheists are not in the place to save them from their suffering, How can a blind man lead a one eyed man? it should be the other way round.

0rex:
No, they should NOT. Even if they are right, the society is not ready to accept that. They'll most likely be lynched.

JSoE:
You have made a lot of sense but it's not that easy to convince people to see the truth .... I can't even tell my mum cos she'll go 'ka-booom!!!' on hearing that I'm now an agnostic.

Although I have succeeded in freeing one of my friends from the scourge of religion

Ranchhoddas:
Will unbelief make a deranged person any less deranged?

naijababe:


Wrong! The Japanese are largely Buddhists or Shintos, Chinese are Buddhists, Norwegians are Lutherans/agnostics and the Swiss, though not on your list are Roman Catholics/ Anglicans.

Don't confuse agnosticism with atheism, many of the Scandiniavian nations that atheists like to use in their arguments identify as agnostics, the ones who aren't Lutherans at least- ( Evangelicals).

cloudgoddess:

Atheism and agnosticism are effectively the same. I've already made posts on this, agnosticism IS atheism, but of a different sort. "Absence of belief in an intervening, personal supernatural entity that is pulling strings behind the scenes", characterizes both atheists and agnostics. Deists too even.

And some Buddhists. Buddhism and atheism can exist together and very often do, especially in more western adaptations of Buddhism. More of a philosophy than a religion, it's focused on cultivating positive inner states of being, NOT worshipping any external creator. Shintoism is similarly compatible with an atheistic worldview.

Lastly, many people who answer these surveys check religion off by name. But in practice, these people do not walk around seriously believing a god will heal their illnesses and improve their finances, or truly believing that everyone who doesn't subscribe to their belief will burn in a furnace for all eternity. The amount of people who earnestly hold the types of beliefs present in the Abrahamic religions, are a minority and declining in those areas.

AccidentalGenius:


youre right. but you cant explain things to people who aren't prepared to learn. this will soon become an unnecessary argument. she wont understand. im an atheist and I practice the Buddhist mundra meditation.

cloudgoddess:

Very awesome! I practice Vipassana. I should look into Mundra more. Seems very interesting.

tempem:
They should be outspoken when they don't even know why they are here..

When they can't even tell you how to be happy?

Farmerforlife:
Your proposal is akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Not all religions have harmful teachings when applied correctly

Also, on the surface, it might seem nice to allow unbridled hedonism to take over the world, and live merely for our pleasures of, as you put it, but free license does have its drawbacks, which include harmful effects on society.

cloudgoddess:

Atheism and agnosticism are effectively the same. I've already made posts on this, agnosticism IS atheism, but of a different sort. "Absence of belief in an intervening, personal supernatural entity that is pulling strings behind the scenes", characterizes both atheists and agnostics. Deists too even.

And some Buddhists. Buddhism and atheism can exist together and very often do, especially in more western adaptations of Buddhism. More of a philosophy than a religion, it's focused on cultivating positive inner states of being, NOT worshipping any external creator. Shintoism is focused on the apprection of nature and traditional Japanese customs that reflect that. It doesn't have any set doctrines or required professions of faith, and is thus similarly compatible with a secular worldview.

Lastly, many people who answer these surveys check religion off by name. But in practice, these people do not walk around seriously believing a god will heal their illnesses and improve their finances, or truly believing that everyone who doesn't subscribe to their belief will burn in a furnace for all eternity. The amount of people who earnestly hold the types of beliefs present in the Abrahamic religions, are a minority and declining in those areas.

AccidentalGenius:


youre right. but you cant explain things to people who aren't prepared to learn. this will soon become an unnecessary argument. she wont understand. im an atheist and I practice the Buddhist mundra meditation.