₦airaland Forum

ccffwx:
What I mean is that that idea is actually people's interpretation of what they do not understand. And it has been accepted as truth. Many people are either lazy or afraid to probe it. GOD did not make man superior to woman. Man and woman are of one specie of being. That things are done for order to exist does not mean that I'm superior to you. On judgment day, everybody will be judged same. So I'm saying that it's not GOD's idea but human interpretation that man is superior thisthat as you pointed out in the post. Thanks.

naijababe:
Fundamentally Deists and Agnostics believe there is a God, a first cause. It is very different from the atheist belief where God is nothing more than a make up fable like Rapunzel

naijababe:
I am a Christian and I meditate twice a day, what's your point?

timpaker:
Which religion is against poetry, Mr. Seun?

Seun:
Virtually all religions are based on incorrect beliefs. All incorrect beliefs are harmful because decision making obeys the garbage in, garbage out principle. The more incorrect beliefs you hold, the more likely you are to make bad decisions that will harm you and the people around you.

plaetton:
The Judeo-Christian religions, of course.

Farmerforlife:
This is an ambiguous statement. What do you mean by 'virtually all'?

naijababe:
The problem that I have with atheists in general is not their lack of belief in God but in the unfortunate view that my choice to be a person of faith in based on nothing less than reason just as their lack of belief is based on same. I respect their choice and expect and demand the same from them. This whole idea that you have a superior reasoning or intellect just because you an atheist is not only arrogant but extremely dangerous.

I am all for trolling and funny memes of which neither side are particularly innocent but by and large, majority of religious folks are peaceful and happily coexist with one another. I guess maybe, atheists using Warri parlance do not want to carry last and are keen on starting their own 'fundamentalist army' as seemingly their unbelief is better than my belief and I need to be saved.

I have had enough of running around in circles abeg!

cloudgoddess:
Atheism and agnosticism are effectively the same. I've already made posts on this, agnosticism IS atheism, but of a different sort. "Absence of belief in an intervening, personal supernatural entity that is pulling strings behind the scenes", characterizes both atheists and agnostics. Deists too even.

And some Buddhists. Buddhism and atheism can exist together and very often does, especially in more western adaptations of Buddhism. More of a philosophy than a religion, it's focused on cultivating positive inner states of being, NOT worshipping any external creator. Shintoism, although traditionally polytheistic, is mostly focused on the apprection of nature and traditional Japanese customs that reflect that. It doesn't have any set doctrines or required professions of faith/worship, and is thus similarly compatible with a secular worldview.

Lastly, in regards to the Lutheren/Catholics/etc, many people who answer these surveys check religion off by name. But in practice, most of them do not walk around seriously believing a god will heal their illnesses and improve their finances, or truly believing that everyone who doesn't subscribe to their belief will burn in a furnace for all eternity. The amount of people who earnestly hold the types of beliefs present in the Abrahamic religions, are a declining minority in those areas.

HCpaul:
But the problem is that apart from online platform, how can we successfully communicate this rational information in our primitive environment filled with primitive homo sapiens?

Ranchhoddas:
A large number of people are good because of their hope in one afterlife or the other. Hardened criminals have ''discovered'' Christ or any other deity and become good.

Acidosis:
To persons (e.g. me) who had the opportunity to gain education, sorry, a million atheists cannot convince me that there is no supreme being somewhere. Don't waste your time. We have gained enough education to know what's best for us.

hahn:
Religious People Are Suffering & They Need Our Help

Codedrock:
Seun i am really loving all these your topics oo.. Even though i still believe there is God, i am so against being religious. bro you are really doing a great job with these topics. I think i was already in transition to being an atheist(after i quit church) before you started your Faith related topics and i have been enjoying them, not to mention we reason the same way. I still choose to believe there is God though.
Been seriously studying that Evolution theory but my abstract thinking ability is just so not agreeing with that right now.

01Mysticdon:
Sha am a Deist, lover of nature

naijababe:
I am a Christian and I meditate twice a day, what's your point?

Touchnot01:
Seun Osewa. Nigeria's foremost High Priest of Atheism. I pray and hope you retrace your steps before it is too late.

ccffwx:
Some Christians peddle the idea that women must submit to men because man was made first blablabla. GOD created man and woman, none is superior to the other. Men and women were also charged to submit to one another not because anyone is superior (as touted by inferiority complex people) but in submission to the will of GOD. Whoever accepts that man is superior to woman BS as coming from GOD needs to hear from GOD and not confused preachers. Seun you might want to clarify this in your post.

hopefulLandlord:
Oga, in simple gibberish, virtually all means almost all, since there are over 5000 different gods, let's assume that 1 of the gods is the true god (all might be wrong); now 1 out of 5000 is 1/5000, that 1 (one) true god now has different religions tied to it, and let's say only one of the different religions tied to it is the true one; you'll still have different sects under that religion and only one of them should be the true sect, then under that sect you'll still have several divisions and it goes on and on and on

Let me give an example

Let's assume the Abrahamic god is the true god

Under that you have 3 religions tied to it; Islam Christianity and Judaism

Let's assume Christianity is the true religion, you have the Catholic, the Protestant etc

I believe you've got my point

Hence the saying "virtually all religions are based on incorrect belief"

Acidosis:
I don't have to read the posts here, but why don't you all spend your time preaching against illiteracy?

Illiteracy rate in Nigeria is high; we have more illiterate than religious folks. Many people don't go to Churches by the way. However, we have more agberos on the streets of Lagos who cannot compose the simplest English statement.

To persons (e.g. me) who had the opportunity to gain education, sorry, a million atheists cannot convince me that there is no supreme being somewhere. Don't waste your time. We have gained enough education to know what's best for us.

Channel this energy to Illiteracy rate, it is almost higher in Nigeria than any nation in the world. (#fact from Data).

Omooba77:
Seun same way you set rules on Nairaland and who to ban,same way God set his own Rules,his perogative no one can question, Psalm 115:3.Same way you are using your platform to promote your ideas.Same things God does on Earth and Heavens to show his Supremacy....Think about God's goodness,heaven is real and death certain for all men.

Geofavor:
You've just said what has been on my mind for some time now.

A lot of people keep their cool because of their because of their religious beliefs. Take that away, and this world won't contain us anymore.

Everyone would define what is good and bad in his or her own way.

For example, Since there is no god( hence no eternal punishment), some people might think it okay to kill people for fun.

Just imagine a world where no one believes in any god; anything will go in that kinda world. Religion actually keeps the world in check.

The world operates based on the rules of religion. Although some of their rules are absurd, every religion preaches peace in one way or the other. And most people easily adhere to it because they believe it was set by one supreme being or the other. Now, If -- in a world where no one beliefs in a supreme being -- we humans decide to make a peace rule, it will not hold. No one would step down for anyone, No one would want to serve anyone and so on.

Religion is one of the factors that keep this world balanced. Take it out, and humanity is doomed!

Let's just leave people to believe what they want and try to be good people.

shaybebaby:
Try empathy, imagine what it feels like to be someone and on the receiving end of your actions.

naijababe:
Religious people are suffering ? How? Explain please with succinct and specific examples, thank you very much.



Proselytising much? Like seriously, you believe that if you free me from what you call my delusion I will live a better life like you? I see your viewpoint which plainly dictates that you are living a better life than I am because you are an atheist and I am not! And if I am not mistaken, you are suggesting that we should all embrace 'Hedonism', just seek pleasure over pain, in fact emphatically self-pleasure, right? This is one of the questions of the ages but by choice I choose a life that has some restraint over one with total freedom, I have a sweet tooth and would drink more than a bottle of Merlot everyday, in reality, I am free to do as wish but I know enjoying these 'vices' without restraint will lead certainly to one of two things, early death or a life of ill health, take your pick, my pick is to enjoy my 'vices' with some restraint. Besides, complete freedom, pleasure, joy, comfort et al lose their appeal in the absence of their antithesis, just as I tell my 6 year old son, nothing will be special about his birthdays if he has one everyday. Also, not everyone wants to live a life based on your definition of a better life, ever heard of Buddha? Nice little prince born into affluence who perhaps sought for more than the pleasurable life beyond the 4 walls of the palace?.

For many, a better life is beyond money, comfort and pleasure. There is such a thing as contentment, I know it a concept that is by and large alien to the Nigerian society but it exists, you should give it try.
I am a person of faith and I came to the knowledge of what I am by knowledge and choice, while many not be that spiritually matured to be that way, a bigger majority are. You need to come down from your high horse and acknowledge that many make these choices deliberately and consciously.

.

Of course, this drivel will not be complete without a dig at JW or one sect or another, I can also say that many atheist also choose euthanasia/DNR just because they don't want to suffer and then deprive their loved ones of their love and perhaps drive them to a life of addiction and depression. Is doing it for hedonistic reasons more admirable?



You need to open your world view a bit, just using the tiny sample size in mini Ogun State and perhaps Nigeria will not cut it. Religion is perhaps responsible for some of the finest forms of music, poetry, fine art and so on, I can argue that many of these self expressions have their in religion and the contribution of religion, the religious and influence of religion on the non-religion cannot be ignored. I mean common man, the kind of cult following perpetrated in Nigeria is not always a definition of the religious or religion.



Another crass generalisation, none of the Eastern religions believe in the afterlife as you describe above but in reincarnation, the concept is even completely non existent in Judaism; only Islam and Christianity subscribe to the afterlife thesis. Now, moving along, I don't know where you got the idea that they believe they have to endure miserable lives in exchange for an imaginary paradise, even in Nigeria, that is a big fat giant lie, in fact the reason why pastors/alfas in Nigeria have a cult following is because the followers want to live 'BETTER LIVES' . Have you noticed that the mental oppressed are the uneducated? Given your well meaning position, what are you doing about that? I have often told people, if you want to know what life was like in medieval Europe, just go to Nigeria, where all power belonged to the clergy and the aristocrats, in current Nigeria substitute aristocrats for politicians. With the advent of Gutenberg's printing press, the Bible became readily available and education no longer remained an exclusive right of titled men or men in robes. That perhaps gave birth to one of the finest periods in history, The Renaissance, otherwise known as the age of Enlightenment, while religion was questioned, it also matured, giving rise more matured and alternative viewpoints some of which persists today. You should consider other 'isms' other than atheism, many religious people have and still choose theism.



Another preposterous generalisation largely applicable to Nigeria, I could argue the disadvantages of democracy on the basis of how it is practiced in Nigeria. The Red Cross has its origins in Christianity as its founder Henry Dunant died a christian and there are many organisations doing similar voluntarily. In fact forget the Red Cross, the Anglican and Catholic movements, Ansarud-deen and Ahmadiyya are the reasons many of our parents were able to get an education. Just because some reprehensible and self-aggrandising elements have hijacked religion in your part of the world does not make religion wholly responsible.

I don't know where you get your facts from, even the 'Amish' would go hospital if need be. As for prayer, I am sure you know what the placebo effect is, look it up if you you don't know, doctors or science are yet to explain what is responsible for it, there is something belief does for the psyche.



Another Nigerian stereotype, I just tire.

I am against abortion because I am pro-life, in my opinion, it is irresponsible to have sex and get pregnant in this day and age when so many precautionary measures abound, as an abortion apologist, I'd like to ask how abortion can/will encourage any form of sexual accountability when a teenager knows there is always an option of getting an abortion? Feel free to enlighten us please. By the way, there's a reason why AIDS exploded in the 80s, look that up too.

Just in case you are ignorant of the facts, abstinence does more than preventing unwanted pregnancies, funny that this paragraph ignores the many ills of premarital sex such as STDs, HIV/AIDS, Hepatitis, and sexual depravity as result of not being emotionally ready to engage in sex I can't shout abeg.

Religious people are against religious education Lord have mercy, where do you live, what kind people live around you?



Funny that you chose to cleverly ignore women like Esther, Abigail, Deborah, Lydia, Phoebe or women in Islam such as Aisha, Khadijah, Miriam the wife of Firiaoun or Fatima al-Fihri, look her up, she established the first and oldest university in Morrocco. I will forgive that slight, as an atheist your sojourn into religion is to find only what is wrong never what is right so you may be forgiven for your ignorance of the women above but what about women like Indira Gandhi, Marie Curie, Angela Merkel or even me, naijababe? What the hell is wrong with you man? I expected better from you, you have limited your viewpoints to insipid and parochial conjectures. Taking you seriously henceforth will be a challenge if you continue to state your opinion as facts, even your modern day father Richard Dawkins does better than this, learn a few things from him and the way he writes the next time you wish to write to your well meaning and liberating posts, but exercise some caution cause even he is losing credibility.

Of course, never mind that this is largely based on illiteracy rather than religion, try again please. How many times have you seen the children of well educated middle-class family given any of the labels above? It is always the uneducated and poor. ' Mental Oppression, much!'



Feel free to speak out, it is your God given right, spare me your superiority complex however and stick to the facts. Shalom!

Seun:
Religious People Are Suffering & They Need Our Help

People often ask outspoken atheists why they like to argue with religious people. "If you don't believe in God", they ask, "why do you spend so much time attacking people's religious beliefs?" They often respond by saying, "religious people keep trying to impose their religious beliefs on us through evangelism and politics, so we have to defend ourselves." Atheists who don't feel threatened usually choose to remain silent. I used to be a pretty quiet atheist myself, until I noticed something about religious people that I hadn't noticed before. Religious people are suffering!

Religion is not a harmless delusion. It's not a benign folly that merely wastes people's time. It's a malignant malady that systematically robs the majority of humanity of their freedom, pleasure, joy, comfort, knowledge, intelligence, health, money, lives, and much more. It would be selfish of us as atheists who are free from religion not to make every effort to free people from religion so that they can have much better lives.

Many religious people are not allowed to have blood transfusions. This means thousands of religious men, women and children have died from treatable medical conditions, such as pregnancies with any kind of complications, non-fatal car accidents, treatable gunshot wounds, etc. simply because they are not allowed to accept blood transfusions. So many children have become orphans needlessly; so many men and women became widows and widowers; so many fathers and mothers lost their children. All because of a religious rule that make no sense at all.

Many religious people are forbidden by their religions from enjoying most of the good things in life. Things like secular or instrumental music, fine art, poetry, sculpture, owning dogs, wearing make-up, friendship with the opposite sex, eating ram meat, eating sausages, pleasuring yourself or the opposite sex, watching fantasy movies or reading fantasy novels like harry potter, making friends outside the religion, dancing, tattoos, playing ludo because it relies on luck, barbie dolls, sexy clothes etc. Can you imagine what your life would be like if you had to forgo most of these wonderful things? Horribly boring. You'd probably kill yourself. I guess that's why many religious people are violent.

Most religious people believe in the afterlife. As a result, instead of focusing on the current life and making it as enjoyable as possible for themselves, their friends, and family members, they often endure shitty and miserable lives in the hope that they'll be rewarded after they die. An extreme case of this is the case of suicide bombers and religious fighters who embrace violent deaths for the sake of an imaginary paradise.

Many religious people are pressured to give a sizable proportion of their income to the religious establishments they worship with. Poor people are taught that the best way to get rich is not to save their money and invest in education and entrepreneurship, but to "sow" it by giving it to their rich religious leaders who will use it to live flamboyantly, and build religious monuments to attract more cash cows. When this stupid idea of "sowing"doesn't make the poor people rich, they are told that it's because they don't have faith, have sin in their lives, etc.

Many religious people are made to believe that the secret to good health and healing is prayer, having been brainwashed by dishonest sermons and misleading testimonies. When they have health problems, instead of going to good hospitals, they embark on prayer and fasting. When their friends slump due to heart attacks or strokes or seizures, they start praying on them instead of rushing them to good hospitals where they can get competent medical help. People have died of curable diseases like malaria because they didn't accept treatment until it was too late.

Many religious people are tolerant and liberal by nature, but due to certain verses in their holy scriptures, they feel that they must be intolerant of various groups of people that God supposedly doesn't like, such as lesbians and transexuals. They are against abortion, which they think is murder, but also against sex education, which reduces abortion rates dramatically, because they think it may encourage premarital safe sex. As a result their daughters end up getting pregnant outside wedlock, having illegal abortions, and dying despite their opposition to abortion.

Many religious people are women, and it sucks to be them because the scriptures of the major religions are clearly sexist. One scripture claims that women must be quiet and submit to men because man were created first and woman came from man, which is rather suspicious because in real life it's women who give birth to men. Another scripture proudly asserts that woman are deficient in intelligence and piety. There are almost no female prophets, apostles or disciples. The few famous women in major scriptures are famous not for personal exploits but for giving birth to important men, marrying them, or leading them astray (Eve, Jezebel). Religious women can't live up to their full potential.

And don't even get me started on the horrible treatment of "demon-possessed" people (the mentally ill) and "child witches".

Clearly, religious people are suffering. Our parents, siblings, and children. Our friends, crushes, and admirers. Our colleague, bosses, and employees. To save them, we who are atheists must come out of our closets and start speaking out; challenging them and educating them.

naijababe:
Religious people are suffering ? How? Explain please with succinct and specific examples, thank you very much.



Proselytising much? Like seriously, you believe that if you free me from what you call my delusion I will live a better life like you? I see your viewpoint which plainly dictates that you are living a better life than I am because you are an atheist and I am not! And if I am not mistaken, you are suggesting that we should all embrace 'Hedonism', just seek pleasure over pain, in fact emphatically self-pleasure, right? This is one of the questions of the ages but by choice I choose a life that has some restraint over one with total freedom, I have a sweet tooth and would drink more than a bottle of Merlot everyday, in reality, I am free to do as wish but I know enjoying these 'vices' without restraint will lead certainly to one of two things, early death or a life of ill health, take your pick, my pick is to enjoy my 'vices' with some restraint. Besides, complete freedom, pleasure, joy, comfort et al lose their appeal in the absence of their antithesis, just as I tell my 6 year old son, nothing will be special about his birthdays if he has one everyday. Also, not everyone wants to live a life based on your definition of a better life, ever heard of Buddha? Nice little prince born into affluence who perhaps sought for more than the pleasurable life beyond the 4 walls of the palace?.

For many, a better life is beyond money, comfort and pleasure. There is such a thing as contentment, I know it a concept that is by and large alien to the Nigerian society but it exists, you should give it try.
I am a person of faith and I came to the knowledge of what I am by knowledge and choice, while many not be that spiritually matured to be that way, a bigger majority are. You need to come down from your high horse and acknowledge that many make these choices deliberately and consciously.

.

Of course, this drivel will not be complete without a dig at JW or one sect or another, I can also say that many atheist also choose euthanasia/DNR just because they don't want to suffer and then deprive their loved ones of their love and perhaps drive them to a life of addiction and depression. Is doing it for hedonistic reasons more admirable?



You need to open your world view a bit, just using the tiny sample size in mini Ogun State and perhaps Nigeria will not cut it. Religion is perhaps responsible for some of the finest forms of music, poetry, fine art and so on, I can argue that many of these self expressions have their in religion and the contribution of religion, the religious and influence of religion on the non-religion cannot be ignored. I mean common man, the kind of cult following perpetrated in Nigeria is not always a definition of the religious or religion.



Another crass generalisation, none of the Eastern religions believe in the afterlife as you describe above but in reincarnation, the concept is even completely non existent in Judaism; only Islam and Christianity subscribe to the afterlife thesis. Now, moving along, I don't know where you got the idea that they believe they have to endure miserable lives in exchange for an imaginary paradise, even in Nigeria, that is a big fat giant lie, in fact the reason why pastors/alfas in Nigeria have a cult following is because the followers want to live 'BETTER LIVES' . Have you noticed that the mental oppressed are the uneducated? Given your well meaning position, what are you doing about that? I have often told people, if you want to know what life was like in medieval Europe, just go to Nigeria, where all power belonged to the clergy and the aristocrats, in current Nigeria substitute aristocrats for politicians. With the advent of Gutenberg's printing press, the Bible became readily available and education no longer remained an exclusive right of titled men or men in robes. That perhaps gave birth to one of the finest periods in history, The Renaissance, otherwise known as the age of Enlightenment, while religion was questioned, it also matured, giving rise more matured and alternative viewpoints some of which persists today. You should consider other 'isms' other than atheism, many religious people have and still choose theism.



Another preposterous generalisation largely applicable to Nigeria, I could argue the disadvantages of democracy on the basis of how it is practiced in Nigeria. The Red Cross has its origins in Christianity as its founder Henry Dunant died a christian and there are many organisations doing similar voluntarily. In fact forget the Red Cross, the Anglican and Catholic movements, Ansarud-deen and Ahmadiyya are the reasons many of our parents were able to get an education. Just because some reprehensible and self-aggrandising elements have hijacked religion in your part of the world does not make religion wholly responsible.

I don't know where you get your facts from, even the 'Amish' would go hospital if need be. As for prayer, I am sure you know what the placebo effect is, look it up if you you don't know, doctors or science are yet to explain what is responsible for it, there is something belief does for the psyche.



Another Nigerian stereotype, I just tire.

I am against abortion because I am pro-life, in my opinion, it is irresponsible to have sex and get pregnant in this day and age when so many precautionary measures abound, as an abortion apologist, I'd like to ask how abortion can/will encourage any form of sexual accountability when a teenager knows there is always an option of getting an abortion? Feel free to enlighten us please. By the way, there's a reason why AIDS exploded in the 80s, look that up too.

Just in case you are ignorant of the facts, abstinence does more than preventing unwanted pregnancies, funny that this paragraph ignores the many ills of premarital sex such as STDs, HIV/AIDS, Hepatitis, and sexual depravity as result of not being emotionally ready to engage in sex I can't shout abeg.

Religious people are against religious education Lord have mercy, where do you live, what kind people live around you?



Funny that you chose to cleverly ignore women like Esther, Abigail, Deborah, Lydia, Phoebe or women in Islam such as Aisha, Khadijah, Miriam the wife of Firiaoun or Fatima al-Fihri, look her up, she established the first and oldest university in Morrocco. I will forgive that slight, as an atheist your sojourn into religion is to find only what is wrong never what is right so you may be forgiven for your ignorance of the women above but what about women like Indira Gandhi, Marie Curie, Angela Merkel or even me, naijababe? What the hell is wrong with you man? I expected better from you, you have limited your viewpoints to insipid and parochial conjectures. Taking you seriously henceforth will be a challenge if you continue to state your opinion as facts, even your modern day father Richard Dawkins does better than this, learn a few things from him and the way he writes the next time you wish to write to your well meaning and liberating posts, but exercise some caution cause even he is losing credibility.

Of course, never mind that this is largely based on illiteracy rather than religion, try again please. How many times have you seen the children of well educated middle-class family given any of the labels above? It is always the uneducated and poor. ' Mental Oppression, much!'



Feel free to speak out, it is your God given right, spare me your superiority complex however and stick to the facts. Shalom!

Seun:
I'm not asking atheists to become street preachers. They just need to speak up sometimes and say, "I disagree with that, and here's why."