Dolphinheart,

"IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with GOD, and the Word was GOD." Jn. 1:1

We know that the Word is Jesus Christ. If Jesus Christ was GOD(again, this clearly shows equality with the Father), could GOD have been created?

DoctorAlien:


"Who, being in the form of GOD, thought it not robbery to be equal with GOD: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant... " Phil. 2:6-7

Clearly, Jesus is equal with GOD but He chose to make himself a servant. And since he obeyed GOD faithfully, He could be rightly referred to as GOD's servant. He also served humanity. So, Jesus took servanthood upon Himself. He made himself a servant.

you cherry pick the issue you want to argue about, cutting off the rest of the points.
If you have issues with only one point, it means the other nine are correct!

The verse itself has shown you that despite taking on a servant form, he still is not equal to God.
let me ask you, is jesus still in the flesh he came to earth with?
is jesus still in servant form presently.
you choose to obey someone's laws, orders, directives, will , command, even till the point of death, you are not equal to or with that person.

dolphinheart:

interesting, so you believe the statements of those religious leaders who jesus himself said they do not understand what he is saying!

I'm sorry but it was John speaking in Jn. 5:18 and not religious leaders. Can't you see?

dolphinheart:
The verse itself has shown you that despite taking on a servant form, he still is not equal to God.

Explain.

DoctorAlien:


You said that Jesus' power is limited. This in itself is a sacrilege. The Scripture will once again prove you wrong: "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." Matt. 28:18.

If Jesus has all the power in Heaven and in earth, how is His power limited?

Even if you employ multitudes of words, they cannot obfuscate what the Scripture clearly teaches.

if you had left my post the way it is , instead of cutting parts of my points off, and if you had read the scriptures about jesus being in subjection to another, you would have undertood.
If you have all power, but your will is subjected to the will of another, you do not do anything with it unless that person tells you to, is the power not limited?

jesus words itself should have shown you the truth, he said he was giving power!

DoctorAlien:


Check your dictionary. Whatever it says omnipresent means, that is my definition of omnipresent.

Now, answer the question: are you saying that Jesus is not omnipresent?

ill tell you, after you have told me your own view of omnipresent

DoctorAlien:


Is anything ambigous about matt. 4:5-6? Jesus is the Son of GOD. GOD the Son. Everybody knows that.

So, the temptation of Jesus Christ has now become "the temptation of Jesus to test GOD"?

Even if you say that Jesus was referring to GOD the Father when He used "the LORD thy GOD" in Matt. 4:7, then you mean that Jesus told Himself "Thou shalt not tempt the LORD thy GOD" because Satan wasn't tempting GOD the Father. But we know from the same verse that Jesus didn't make that statement to Himself but to Satan.

You constantly contradict both yourself and the Scripture.

plus quote verse 5 and 6 and tell what you think the devil implied by his statement.

DoctorAlien:


Satan tempted Jesus to see if Jesus would obey him i.e. fall into sin. The aim of the temptation of Jesus wasn't for Jesus to become a medium through which GOD the Father could be tested.

quote verse 5 and 6 and tell us what you understand

dolphinheart:
If you have all power, but your will is subjected to the will of another, you do not do anything with it unless that person tells you to, is the power not limited?

I don't know if you view Jesus as someone who wants to exercise arbitrary power but is being hindered, hence your bizarre notion that His power has limits.

If somebody gives me an order contrary to what I want to do, then the person is limiting me. But if the orders I receive from somebody are the same things I want to do, then I am not limited in any way. Jesus and His Father are one in will and purpose. Whatever the Father purposes to do, that is also what Jesus purposes to do.

How then is Jesus' power limited? Read Matt. 28:18 again. Does this show any limits to Jesus' power?

Beating about the bush and employing puerile logic and tactics won't really change the divine truths of the Scripture.

dolphinheart:

ill tell you, after you have told me your own view of omnipresent

Omnipresent - present everywhere at the same time.
Now, answer my question: are you saying Jesus is not omnipresent?

dolphinheart:

quote verse 5 and 6 and tell us what you understand

My dear friend, you indeed do not make any sense when you say satan was tempting God the father through Jesus Christ. The scriptures say Jesus went in the wilderness to be tempted by satan and now you say ooh NO, JESUS wasnt the one tempted it was god the father. hahaha

DoctorAlien:


"And we know that the Son of GOD is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true GOD, and eternal life." 1 Jn. 5:20.

What truth is here?

now pls kindly tell:
"And we know that the (1)Son of GOD is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know (2)him that is true, and we are in (3)Him that is true, even in (4)his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true GOD, and eternal life." 1 Jn. 5:20.

1.who is the "son of God" in (1)coloured blue above
2.who is "him" in (2)coloured red above
3. who is the "him" in (3)coloured green above
4.who is the "his" in (4)coloured yellow above

note , Jesus does not have a son called Jesus.
Jesus himself had told told us who the only true God is!

dolphinheart:

plus quote verse 5 and 6 and tell what you think the devil implied by his statement.

Reply to the contradiction I accused you of in the that post you quoted.

DoctorAlien:


I see. You quoted JW Bible for me. I searched "Prov. 8:22 NWT" and the first result I saw was a jw site. I'm sorry but no other version of the Bible used the word "produced" in Prov. 8:22. KJV used the word "possessed". So do many others.

I suppose you read your jw Bible. I'm very sure a lot of Bible truths have been distorted in that translation, hence your distorted view of the Scripture.

using any translation of your choice, please explain proverbs 8: 22- 30 , expecially the part that was coloured.
pls stop cutting parts of my post off

dolphinheart:

now pls kindly tell:
"And we know that the (1)Son of GOD is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know (2)him that is true, and we are in (3)Him that is true, even in (4)his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true GOD, and eternal life." 1 Jn. 5:20.

1.who is the "son of God" in (1)coloured blue above
2.who is "him" in (2)coloured red above
3. who is the "him" in (3)coloured green above
4.who is the "his" in (4)coloured yellow above

note , Jesus does not have a son called Jesus.
Jesus himself had told told us who the only true God is!

1. Jesus Christ
2. GOD
3. GOD
4. Jesus Christ

What ambiguity is there to that verse?

DoctorAlien:


I'm shocked. Show me where the Scripture clearly says that Jesus Christ was created.

Please don't quote your jw NWT for me.

done that already!, but you don't believe that proverbs 8:22- 30 was referring to jesus, so I'll wait till you tell me about your understanding of the verses I quoted.

DoctorAlien:
Dolphinheart,

1 Cor. 30 calls Jesus Christ the wisdom of GOD. If you say Jesus Christ was created, was wisdom created?

sir, what did wisdom say in proverbs 8: 22-30

DoctorAlien:
Dolphinheart,

"IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with GOD, and the Word was GOD." Jn. 1:1

We know that the Word is Jesus Christ. If Jesus Christ was GOD(again, this clearly shows equality with the Father), could GOD have been created?

"in the beginning was the the word", God does not have a beginning.
"and the word was with God" who is the God the word was with, is the word that same person?

dolphinheart:
sir, what did wisdom say in proverbs 8: 22-30

Why did you dodge the question you quoted? Answer it please with "yes" or "no".

dolphinheart:

done that already!, but you don't believe that proverbs 8:22- 30 was referring to jesus, so I'll wait till you tell me about your understanding of the verses I quoted.

Fine. Let's assume Prov. 8:22-30 was referring to Jesus. 1 Cor. 1:30 also calls Jesus the wisdom of GOD.

Now, was wisdom created?

dolphinheart:
"in the beginning was the the word", God does not have a beginning.

The Bible did not say "in the beginning was the word formed".
The Bible says the Word was there in the beginning.

DoctorAlien:


I'm sorry but it was John speaking in Jn. 5:18 and not religious leaders. Can't you see?

John was speaking to jesus?
who Did jesus respond to in the next verse, John or the those who wanted to kill him.

jesus has stated that they do not understand what he is trying to tell them, and at no time in their conversation did jesus state he is equal to the father!, he even asked them why they try to kill him because he said " I am God's son.(God here is being understood to be the father)

DoctorAlien:


Explain.

after you had answered the questions you cut off, the one relating to servant form!

DoctorAlien:


I don't know if you view Jesus as someone who wants to exercise arbitrary power but is being hindered, hence your bizarre notion that His power has limits.

If somebody gives me an order contrary to what I want to do, then the person is limiting me. But if the orders I receive from somebody are the same things I want to do, then I am not limited in any way. Jesus and His Father are one in will and purpose. Whatever the Father purposes to do, that is also what Jesus purposes to do.

How then is Jesus' power limited? Read Matt. 28:18 again. Does this show any limits to Jesus' power?

if you had left my post the way it is , instead of cutting parts of my points off, and if you had read the scriptures about Jesus being in subjection to another, you would have undertood.
I asked
If you have all power, but your will is subjected to the will of another, you do not do anything with it unless that person tells you to, is the power not limited?
I do not view jesus as such!
you refused to talk about jesus being given power.

DoctorAlien:


Omnipresent - present everywhere at the same time.

Now, answer my question: are you saying Jesus is not omnipresent?

no , jesus is not omnipresent!, he is not present everywhere at the same time. and example is what happened to Stephen, he told us where jesus is, despite jesus seeing what is happening to Stephen.
If jesus was everywhere, he want be going anywhere or coming from anywhere!

Revelation15:


My dear friend, you indeed do not make any sense when you say satan was tempting God the father through Jesus Christ. The scriptures say Jesus went in the wilderness to be tempted by satan and now you say ooh NO, JESUS wasnt the one tempted it was god the father. hahaha

pls qoute my exact words, let's see if it corresponds to what you said.
Secondly pls quote verses 5 and 6 and tell us what the devil meant by his words.

DoctorAlien:


Reply to the contradiction I accused you of in the that post you quoted.

the fact is that their is no contradiction, if you can quote verse 5 and 6 and tell us what the devil meant, you will realise that their is no contradiction

DoctorAlien:


1. Jesus Christ
2. GOD
3. GOD
4. Jesus Christ

What ambiguity is there to that verse?

so you can see where you got it wrong , Jesus does not have a son called Jesus!, 2,3, and 4 are referring to the same person.
who did Jesus identify as the only true God? The father!

DoctorAlien:


1. Jesus Christ
2. GOD
3. GOD
4. Jesus Christ

What ambiguity is there to that verse?

so you can see where you got it wrong , Jesus does not have a son called Jesus!, 2,3, and 4 are referring to the same person.
who did Jesus identify as the only true God? The father!

Jesus has come so that we may know him, the father that is the only true God, we are in him that is true, even in his son(the son of him that is true)Jesus Christ. This one(the one that is true) is the true God. go and read John 17:3

DoctorAlien:


Why did you dodge the question you quoted? Answer it please with "yes" or "no".

wisdom, when personified , says he was created!
now pls tell us what you understand by proverbs 8: 22-30

DoctorAlien:

The Bible did not say "in the beginning was the word formed".
The Bible says the Word was there in the beginning.

the word " was " has already showed you what happened in the beginning