₦airaland Forum

SaffronSpice:
The prediction was SYMBOLIC.

www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/1914-significant-year-bible-prophecy/

Na so.

Mrbllymer:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses

Nice.Errm,you trying to prove the founder argument?

AyamConfidence:
what is the truth....this is a perfect organization put in the care of imperfect humans...the Bible says that the light keeps getting brighter and brighter until the day is firmly established... we are not afraid to admit and adjust our past understanding

When you say ''our past undestanding'' does it include you, or is it just referring to those people at your American headquartes?

Katier00:
why don't your people marry from other denominations or you guys doing the same

It is simple law given to israelites not to marry from other tribe that does not worship jehovah. King solomon made that mistake by marrying from those tribe and really suffered. Marry only in the Lord is also an inspired words of apostle paul, we also try to obey too

for those who like quoting from jwfacts.com...am here for u...we can do dis over and over again....they call the sites jwfacts....but i call it jwblindfoldedcritics.com

DoctorAlien:
The Jehovah Witnesses teach many things which are not according to the Bible. However, the only Standard of Christian doctrine is the Bible (2 Tim. 3:16)

It's very sad that 90% of Christians, as you said, have forgotten the only commandment of GOD that begins with "REMEMBER". GOD knew people will forget his Sabbath, and so He said "REMEMBER" in Exod. 20:0. A thorough search of the Scripture will reveal no support of Sunday worship.

Moreover, the Bible says we ought to walk like Jesus walked.(1 Jn. 2:6). Jesus kept the Sabbath. Therefore we should keep it.

Wow! So how do u see any xtian that practice against the the teachings of the bible and God s commandments

AyamConfidence:
what is the truth....this is a perfect organization put in the care of imperfect humans...the Bible says that the light keeps getting brighter and brighter until the day is firmly established... we are not afraid to admit and adjust our past understanding

beautiful @ bold , " Finally brothers , continue ... to be readjusted " 2 Cor 13:11



many of those accusing the witnesses of Father Jehovah have long standing heresies they know its wrong but refuse to adjust . e.g immortal soul, trinity , purgatory , hellfire e.t.c. they are just not adjustable. stagnant waters

AyamConfidence:
what is the truth....this is a perfect organization put in the care of imperfect humans...the Bible says that the light keeps getting brighter and brighter until the day is firmly established... we are not afraid to admit and adjust our past understanding

beautiful @ bold , " Finally brothers , continue ... to be readjusted " 2 Cor 13:11


many of those accusing the witnesses of Father Jehovah have long standing heresies they know its wrong but refuse to adjust . e.g immortal soul, trinity , purgatory , hellfire e.t.c. they are just not adjustable. more like stagnant waters

tempem:
You can always do..

I saw a post where you made reference to 1914!

He was so honest by telling you "we had wrong expectations"

You held him. Yet, he made you see that earlier Christians and apostles even (prophets) in Bible times had wrong expectations..

I was expecting you to nod a yes..

You never did..


You just bumped in by asking who's Paul?

Now who's not open minded here?

He answered a question and I was not satisfied with his answer and you want me to approve?

DoctorAlien:
Brother, who instructed you not to keep GOD's Sabbath?

DO you think only a small number of people will be in Heaven? Hehe, bro, narrowgate is not a church with small population.

Heheeheheheheeheheeee, narrowgate is a church with a very big population.... and bros, who instructed you to keep the Sabbath or not to keep it? Remember that a very large number of people will be in heaven or does your bible say differently.

SaffronSpice:
Nice.Errm,you trying to prove the founder argument?

what's there to proof??
It's boldly written with facts, years and names, you wanna disprove Wikipedia? Please be my guest.

themall:
Heheeheheheheeheheeee, narrowgate is a church with a very big population.... and bros, who instructed you to keep the Sabbath or not to keep it? Remember that a very large number of people will be in heaven or does your bible say differently.

The Bible instructed me to keep the Sabbath.

Now, who instructed you to disregard GOD's Sabbath and observe Sunday?

Ranchhoddas:
When you say ''our past undestanding'' does it include you, or is it just referring to those people at your American headquartes?

i know ur organisation is perfect....for d rec,,, moses in the bible the leader of the Israelites maDe a mistake and he recorded it in d bible...david the King and leader to maDe mistakes...they are humans...imperfect....we adjust our understanding as God blesses us with dipper truths.....

goodnews201668:
Why are you a hypocritic, thought you claim to be a Jw?

I'm a Christian first and foremost, then a Jehovah's/Jesus' Witness. Not a watchtower witness. I used to defend the Watchtower's teaching vehemently like the @OP is doing, I dug into their publications and practiced new ways of defending the Watchtower believe, untill something happened one day.
Then, I started researching our teachings, "watchtower's teaching", that was when I came to understand exactly what i have never realise before.

That the teachings of watchtower is different from what the Bible teachings, and I had to go through the pains of comparing many our the teachings from the Christian congregation with what is actually in the Bible.

What really open my eyes to each and every step of the Governing body and their ways of manipulation of the scriptures was the book, "crisis of conscience" and "in search of Christian freedom" , both written by a former governing body.
It moved me to tears, the details, the description, one sided argument they present, what they leave out in their arguments, the scriptures they choose to emphasize and the part they deliberately ignore, the minutes of the Governing body, they dominant attitude.

I mean, Jws see and hear things happening but don't really know why it happened. But, the book connected all the dots. That was when I came to realise that I cannot trust in any man made organisation, neither can I rely on any. I had to start looking at the scriptures more and more and I learnt more in a space of 1 year than I had ever learn after my baptism.


Do you remember Nicodemus? He believed in jesus but was also a pharisees. So he had to do what anyone that fears but believe but also fears losing one or two things would do. He became a secret disciple and use to visit Jesus in the night.

Kassidy90:
Wow! So how do u see any xtian that practice against the the teachings of the bible and God s commandments

They are not obeying GOD.

Anas09:
So what is Jw if not a sect?

A group of Christians from different ethnic backgrounds united in the worship of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.
They help people learn about the bible and God's Kingdom.

DoctorAlien:
Even Sunday-keeping?

whats sunday keeping?? who toldu witnesses do sunday keping? ? were did u get that word from?

goodnewscliff:
i know ur organisation is perfect....for d rec,,, moses in the bible the leader of the Israelites maDe a mistake and he recorded it in d bible...david the King and leader to maDe mistakes...they are humans...imperfect....we adjust our understanding as God blesses us with dipper truths.....

Please answer the question.

goodnewscliff:
whats sunday keeping?? who toldu witnesses do sunday keping? ? were did u get that word from?

Do you JWs keep the Sabbath of GOD? If no, support it with Scriptures.

Ranchhoddas:
When you say ''our past undestanding'' does it include you, or is it just referring to those people at your American headquartes?

read through, you will what she said

One thing with discussions about religion is that people who claim to believe in God really don't. So when the Catholic church says there's a miracle, those who believe it is just a NATURAL OCCURRENCE.
On the other hand are those who have only one objective: Defend the old-beliefs, force every christian to conform, defend ignorantly. So, let those who really want to get saved study the bible (don't use the king James edition, printed by Pentecostal churches alone - It has many duplications and inaccuracies). Then pray to the almighty God. See the lifestyle of the members of the church and God will always guard you.

samylinks:
read through, you will what she said

Read through what? How about you just answer the question!

rottennaija:
I'm a Christian first and foremost, then a Jehovah's/Jesus' Witness. Not a watchtower witness. I used to defend the Watchtower's teaching vehemently like the @OP is doing, I dug into their publications and practiced new ways of defending the Watchtower believe, untill something happened one day.
Then, I started researching our teachings, "watchtower's teaching", that was when I came to understand exactly what i have never realise before.

That the teachings of watchtower is different from what the Bible teachings, and I had to go through the pains of comparing many our the teachings from the Christian congregation with what is actually in the Bible.

What really open my eyes to each and every step of the Governing body and their ways of manipulation of the scriptures was the book, "crisis of conscience" and "in search of Christian freedom" , both written by a former governing body.
It moved me to tears, the details, the description, one sided argument they present, what they leave out in their arguments, the scriptures they choose to emphasize and the part they deliberately ignore, the minutes of the Governing body, they dominant attitude.

I mean, Jws see and hear things happening but don't really know why it happened. But, the book connected all the dots. That was when I came to realise that I cannot trust in any man made organisation, neither can I rely on any. I had to start looking at the scriptures more and more and I learnt more in a space of 1 year than I had ever learn after my baptism.


Do you remember Nicodemus? He believed in jesus but was also a pharisees. So he had to do what anyone that fears but believe but also fears losing one or two things would do. He became a secret disciple and use to visit Jesus in the night.

we've gat more than one million and one haters all aroud d world..y?? we re different..u made no point here!!!! u didnt even quote a scripture to prove the God led organisation wrong wats ur point clearly state them?? if not,, then no doubt u ve been deluded.....be reasonable!!!

DoctorAlien:
The Bible instructed me to keep the Sabbath.

Now, who instructed you to disregard GOD's Sabbath and observe Sunday?

I am a christian. But since you are a natural Jew you are free to keep the Sabbath. The bible instructed all natural Jews to observe the Sabbath. Kontinu.

rottennaija:
I'm a Christian first and foremost, then a Jehovah's/Jesus' Witness. Not a watchtower witness. I used to defend the Watchtower's teaching vehemently like the @OP is doing, I dug into their publications and practiced new ways of defending the Watchtower believe, untill something happened one day.
Then, I started researching our teachings, "watchtower's teaching", that was when I came to understand exactly what i have never realise before.

That the teachings of watchtower is different from what the Bible teachings, and I had to go through the pains of comparing many our the teachings from the Christian congregation with what is actually in the Bible.

What really open my eyes to each and every step of the Governing body and their ways of manipulation of the scriptures was the book, "crisis of conscience" and "in search of Christian freedom" , both written by a former governing body.
It moved me to tears, the details, the description, one sided argument they present, what they leave out in their arguments, the scriptures they choose to emphasize and the part they deliberately ignore, the minutes of the Governing body, they dominant attitude.

I mean, Jws see and hear things happening but don't really know why it happened. But, the book connected all the dots. That was when I came to realise that I cannot trust in any man made organisation, neither can I rely on any. I had to start looking at the scriptures more and more and I learnt more in a space of 1 year than I had ever learn after my baptism.


Do you remember Nicodemus? He believed in jesus but was also a pharisees. So he had to do what anyone that fears but believe but also fears losing one or two things would do. He became a secret disciple and use to visit Jesus in the night.

sorry, you dont really know you are saying. Is there a different b/w "Bible teach and what watchtower teach"? If so, what is the sources of both?

themall:
One thing with discussions about religion is that people who claim to believe in God really don't. So when the Catholic church says there's a miracle, those who believe it is just a NATURAL OCCURRENCE.
On the other hand are those who have only one objective: Defend the old-beliefs, force every christian to conform, defend ignorantly. So, let those who really want to get saved study the bible (don't use the king James edition, printed by Pentecostal churches alone - It has many duplications and inaccuracies). Then pray to the almighty God. See the lifestyle of the members of the church and God will always guard you.

Which one should they use? NWT?

Why do you hate KJV?

Because it exposes JW's false doctrines?

BIBLESPEAKS:
I will answer your questions, however you will please answer mine too thereafter.

Wherever I answer "God" have in mind I'm referring to YHWH/Jehovah. I didn't give further explanations to my answers because in my later questions, you would find scriptures that assert my point. I await your answers.



Who is the Lord of lords and King of kings?

Ans= God

Who has all authority both in heaven and on earth?

Ans= Jesus, but with exception to God's throne.

Who sustains the world with his word?

Ans= God

Who has the key of death and hell?

Ans= Jesus, because it was granted him by his father.

Who is the way, the truth, and the life ?

Ans= Jesus, he is the medium for salvation.

Who made the heaven and earth by his own hands?

Ans= God

Who are we to believe in to have everlasting life?

Ans= the only true God and his son Jesus.

Who is going to appear and Judge the world?

Ans= Jesus, the role was given him by his father.

Who will all nations eventually serve?

Ans= God

Whose name are we to call for everlasting life?

Ans= God

Whose name are we to pray through?

Ans= Jesus. We pray through Jesus, to God his father.

Whose name are we baptise into?

Ans= father, son and Holy Spirit.

Who is the beginning and the end?

Ans= God





If Jesus is Almighty God...

1. Then why is "God head of Christ just as Christ is head of man"? (1 Cor. 11:3)

2. Then why does Scripture consistently phrase Jesus as a separate person from God? (John 20:17; John 14:1; Mark 10:18; John 17:1-3; etc. Also in heaven, 1 Cor. 11:3; Luke 22:69; etc.)

3. Then how can Jesus have a God? Could Almighty God have a God? (Mic. 5:4; Ps. 45:6, 7; 89:26; John 20:17; Rom. 15:6; 2 Cor. 1:3; Eph 1:3; Col 1:3; Mark 15:34; John 17:1-3; Also in heaven, Rev. 1:6; 3:2, 12)

4. Then why does Scripture say he was born and is part of Creation? (Col. 1:15)

5. Then why does Rev. 3:14 say that Jesus is "the beginning of the creation of God"?

6. Then why is he subject to GOD, like we're subject to him? (1 Cor. 15:27, 28; Eph. 1:17)

7. Then why does Micah 5:2 say that Jesus' ORIGIN was “from early times”?

8. Then why does Jesus not know what God knows? (Matt. 24:36, Rev.1:1; Luke 8:45)

9. Then why is Jesus still subject to God when he is as high as he will ever be? (1 Cor. 15:27, 28)

10. Then why does Proverbs 8:22-31 show that the Messiah was CREATED / PRODUCED by God?

11. Then why is he not powerful enough to subject things to himself? (1 Cor. 15:27, Eph. 1:17, 22)

12. Then why would he have to be given any power and authority? (Mt. 28:18; 11:27; Jn. 5:22; 17:2; 3:35; 2 Pet. 1:17)

13. Then why did he have to learn anything? (Heb. 5:8; John 5:19; 8:28)

14. Then why is speaking against him not as bad as speaking against the Holy Spirit? (Mt. 12:31,32; Luke 12:10)

15. Then why did Jesus call the "Father...the only true God"? (John 17:3)

16. Then why did he need to be saved? (Heb. 5:7; John 12:27)

17. Then why did he have to be exalted to Leader and Savior? (Acts 5:31)

18. Then how could he be exalted and given a higher name than he had? (Phil. 2:9-11; Heb. 1:2-4)

19. Then why did he have to be given life in himself? (John 5:25,26)

20. Then how can the Father be greater than he? (John 14:28)

21. Then how could Jesus be tempted by Satan when God cannot be tempted with evil? (James 1:13)

22. Then why did he worship the Father? (John 4:22)

23. Then why can he not do anything on his own? (John 5:19; 6:38)

24. Then why would he pray to anybody? (Luke 22:44; John 17:1,2; Heb. 5:7)

25. Then why do John 1:18 and 1 John 4:9 say that Jesus is God's "only BEGOTTEN Son"? ASV

26. Then how can he be God's servant? (Acts 4:26,27,30)

27. Then how could he receive strength from an angel? (Luke 22:43)

28. Then how could he be a mediator between God and man? (1 Tim. 2:5)

29. Then how could he be with God (ton theon)? (John 1:1)

30. Then how can he be God's image? (Col. 1:15; Heb. 1:3)

31. Then why is he called the agency (dia) of creation and not the Originator (ek)? (1 Cor. 8:6; John 1:1-3; Prov. 8:30; Heb. 2:10; Col. 1:15,16)

32. Then why did Jesus say GOD was "good" in a way that Jesus was not? (Mark 10:18)

33. Then why does he have an archangel's voice instead of God's voice? (1 Thess. 4:16)

34. Then why is the only "worship" given to him the same given to humans? (Heb. 1:6, cf. Mt. 18:26; Rev. 3:9 - "Proskuneo"wink

35. Then why do many who believe this rely on a few selected, so-called 'proof-texts' instead of the context of the consistent teaching of the entire Bible?

36. Then how could he be commanded to do anything? (John 12:49; Deut. 18:18)

37. Then why did Steven see two separate entities, GOD and Jesus, and not just one God or three persons? (Acts 7:55)

38. Then how could he be seen at GOD's right hand? (Luke 22:69; Acts 7:55; Rom. 8:34)

39. Then how could Jesus be exalted (not to become God Himself, but) to the position of the "right hand OF God"? (Acts 2:33)

40. Then why would he have to receive a revelation from God? (Rev.1:1)

41. Then why is he called God's "begotten" Son before he came to earth? (John 3:16; Gal. 4:4; 1 John 4:9)

42. Then how could he have a Father? (John 20:17)

43. Then how could he come in flesh? (1 Kings 8:27; Acts 17:24,25)

44. Then why did he not come in his own name? (John 5:41-44)

45. Then why did Jesus "come down from heaven to do" God's will and not his own will? (Luke 22:42; John 6:38; John 5:30; John 8:42)

46. Then how could he appear before GOD? (Heb. 9:24)

47. Then how could he die? Can God die? Can part of God die? (Rom. 5:10; Acts 5:30; 1 Cor. 15:3; Hab.1:12; cf. 1 Tim. 6:16; Num. 23:19; Ps. 90:2; Dan. 6:25-26)

48. Then why is it that God resurrected Jesus? (Acts 2:32)

49. Then why can we see him if "no man has seen God at any time"? (John 1:18)

50. Then why is there not one clear Scripture where Jesus is called "God the Son," (equal to those declaring "God, the Father)?

51. How is it that the Jews rounded up some false witnesses to make up lies to obtain a death sentence for Jesus, but neither the Jewish officials nor even one of these false witnesses made a claim that he was God or equally God? (Matt. 26:59-67)

52. John summed up his whole Gospel by saying that it was written that we may believe "that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God." Why is there is no mention in that summary of the entire Gospel of what would be the most important thing of all - that Jesus is God? (John 20:31)

53. How could Jesus teach in the Jewish synagogues and the temple? This would never happen if any of the authorities believed he claimed to be God (or that his followers believed such a thing). - Matt. 26:55; John 7:14, 28. Matt. 4:23.

54. How could Jesus' followers teach in Jewish synagogues after Jesus' death and for the remainder of that first century (at least)? Again, this would not have been allowed if there were any suspicion that they believed Jesus to be God. Acts 9:20; 13:5, Acts 13:13-15.


If the Holy Spirit is Almighty God...

1. Then why do quotes from Trinitarians admit that the Holy Spirit is not God but rather is a force from God?

2. Then why would Jews instructed in the Old Testament scriptures and in the teachings of John the Baptist, NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS? (Acts 19:2)

3. Then why isn't the Holy Spirit given equal description in the Bible?

4. Then why didn't Jesus ever teach that the Holy Spirit was God along with the Father and Son?

5. Then why does the Bible describe the Holy Spirit as an "it"? (Is. 34:16 ASV, KJV; Numbers 11:17, 25 ASV, KJV, RSV, NRSV, AT, LB, NEB, REB, NAB, JB, NJB; and Romans 8:16, 26 in the KJV.)

6. Then why does the Bible describe the Holy Spirit as a thing that can be poured out into portions? (Acts 2:17, 18, 33; Numbers 11:17, 25)

7. Then why is the holy spirit nameless and indistinguishable from all of the other holy spirits?

8. Then why did the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD disregard the Holy Spirit as a member of the Godhead when they made Jesus 'God' in 325 AD? Why did they wait until the Council of Constantinople in 381 AD to include the Holy Spirit in the formula?

9. Then wouldn't the water and blood be persons too according to Trinitarian reasoning and 1 John 5:8?

10. Then why is the Holy Spirit sandwiched between a list of QUALITIES at 2 Cor. 6:6?

11. Then why does the NT Greek Lexicon describes the Holy Spirit as "this" at Acts 2:33?

12. Then why is it that nowhere in the Bible is the Holy Spirit ever said to be an equal member of a trinity?

13. Then why is it that nowhere is it mentioned in the Bible the words, "God, the Holy Spirit," or "The Holy Spirit is God"?

14. Then why is it that there is never mentioned a vision, dream or clear description in scripture wherein God and the Holy Spirit are shown as the same person?

If the Trinity Doctrine is a Bible teaching...

1. Then why do NUMEROUS encyclopedias agree that

"... the doctrine of the Trinity was of gradual and comparatively late formation; that it had its origin in a source entirely foreign from that of the Jewish and Christian scriptures; that it grew up, and was ingrafted on Christianity"? – p. 34, The Church of the First Three Centuries, Alvan Lamson, D.D.

2. Then why do many encyclopedias, dictionaries and other sources (including Sir Isaac Newton) agree that the "Trinity was a pagan corruption imposed on Christianity in the fourth century by Athanasius"?

3. Then why does the Bible consistently identify God by singular person pronouns: "I, "Me," "He, and "Him" instead of "We", "Us", "They" or "Them"?

4. Then why does 2 Cor. 13:14 say that the Lord Jesus Christ is one individual, the Holy Spirit is another individual (whether a person or a thing), and that "GOD" IS ANOTHER DIFFERENT INDIVIDUAL?

5. Then why is there not even one Scripture which clearly defines the Trinity?

6. Then why is there not even one Scripture of a vision, dream, or CLEAR description wherein God is shown as three persons?

7. Then why is there not even one Scripture where God is described using the word "three"?

This is the most reasonable post I have read on this thread. Trinity was murdered here. Even from my atheistic point of view, Trinity is the dumbest teaching in Christianity. It defies all logic.

themall:
I am a christian. But since you are a natural Jew you are free to keep the Sabbath. The bible instructed all natural Jews to observe the Sabbath. Kontinu.

You still haven't answered the question: who instructed you to disregard GOD's holy Sabbath?

You're a Christian? Why are you not walking as Christ walked by keeping the Sabbath?

rodDICK:
This is the most reasonable post I have read on this thread. Trinity was murdered here. Even from my atheistic point of view, Trinity is the dumbest teaching in Christianity. It defies all logic.

This is the reason:

"...the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of GOD: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor. 2:14.

DoctorAlien:
Do you JWs keep the Sabbath of GOD? If no, support it with Scriptures.

sabath keeping is a mosaic law...jesus put an end to it...romans 10 vs 4....

DoctorAlien:
Which one should they use? NWT?

Why do you hate KJV?

Because it exposes JW's false doctrines?

They should use any KJV NOT printed by Pentecostal churches who are embellishing doctines such as
1. Purgatory
2. Tithing
3. Gay Marriages
4. No Excommunication

I don't have problems with catholic Douay edition and NWT or Byington

Mrbllymer:
what's there to proof??
It's boldly written with facts, years and names, you wanna disprove Wikipedia? Please be my guest.

You don't get it: No one is downplaying the role of CTR,but he is not the founder.
JWs is a theocratic organisation - I hope you understand?