₦airaland Forum

Seun:
This was not said by God. It was said by one of Job's friends. Job's friends were not prophets, so everything they said was just their opinion.

2 Peter 2 in verses
20  Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

 21  For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

You cannot impose a meaning on God's word. It has no private interpretation, it can only be interpreted by the Holy Spirit of God to man.

4everGod:
if you understood what deepsight said then you would not have attempted this folly of a retort.

He often has the capacity to deliver such powerful blows of incongruity and clueless reasoning which is neither here nor there that I find myself reeling.

Seun:
This was not said by God. It was said by one of Job's friends. Job's friends were not prophets, so everything they said was just their opinion.

So Seun if those who were not Prophets as you say could have access to this info where do you think they got the info from? Their imagination？

4everGod:
So Seun if those who were not Prophets as you say could have access to this info where do you think they got the info from? Their imagination？

Or Belzebub, he might say. . . .

plaetton:
Yeah.
Brilliant deduction.

Don't you see nicely convenient it is?
Humans mentally labouring to prove what The Conveniently Invisible mystery established.

Mystery CREATED the Universe.
Why can't we just agree on that.

I will accept if the Oxford dictionary decides that "God" is a synonym for " Mystery".

Please kindly go through this and give answers if you can

This describes the mysterious nature of God.

Job 38

 1  Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

 2  Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

 3  Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. note

 4  Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. note

 5  Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

 6  Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; note note

 7  When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 8  Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?

 9  When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,

 10  And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, note

 11  And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?note

 12  Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; andcaused the dayspring to know his place;

 13  That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? note

 14  It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.

 15  And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.

 16  Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?

 17  Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?

 18  Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.

 19  Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,

 20  That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the pathsto the house thereof? note

 21  Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or becausethe number of thy days is great?

 22  Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,

 23  Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?

 24  By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?

 25  Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;

 26  To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;

 27  To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?

 28  Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?

 29  Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?

 30  The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen. note

 31  Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? note note

 32  Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? note note

 33  Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

 34  Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?

 35  Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are? note

 36  Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?

 37  Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven, note

 38  When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together? note

 39  Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions, note

 40  When they couch in theirdens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?

 41  Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.

DeepSight:
I really don't know how you brilliant Physics Laureates failed to recognize the said "gravitational bubble" as the "foundations fastened" written therein.

I beg your pardon?

Don't be disingenuous.

I gave you a lesson in elementary astronomy to show you that there is nothing like gravitational bubble of the earth being the same thing as " foundations fastened" , because there is nothing unique about the earth having a gravity.
The Earth's gravity is just a natural pull that is commensurate to it's mass and rotation.

If I were to hurl you into space( like I rightfully should ), you would have your own gravitational pull commensurate with your lekpa size. There would be no godidit fastening you to any foundation.

exhibition:
Please kindly go through this and give answers if you can

This describes the mysterious nature of God.

Job 38

 1  Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

 2  Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

 3  Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. note

 4  Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. note

 5  Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

 6  Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; note note

 7  When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 8  Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?

 9  When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,

 10  And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, note

 11  And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?note

 12  Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; andcaused the dayspring to know his place;

 13  That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? note

 14  It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.

 15  And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.

 16  Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?

 17  Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?

 18  Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.

 19  Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,

 20  That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the pathsto the house thereof? note

 21  Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or becausethe number of thy days is great?

 22  Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,

 23  Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?

 24  By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?

 25  Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;

 26  To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;

 27  To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?

 28  Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?

 29  Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?

 30  The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen. note

 31  Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? note note

 32  Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? note note

 33  Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

 34  Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?

 35  Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are? note

 36  Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?

 37  Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven, note

 38  When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together? note

 39  Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions, note

 40  When they couch in theirdens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?

 41  Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.

Hilarious.

Big laugh.

I could equally quote chapters from my marvel comic book collection where Odin, the immortal father of THOR, sitting on his celestial throne, made similar claims.
What does it prove ?

plaetton:
I beg your pardon?

Don't be disingenuous.

I gave you a lesson in elementary astronomy to show you that there is nothing like gravitational bubble of the earth being the same thing as " foundations fastened" , because there is nothing unique about the earth having a gravity.
The Earth's gravity is just a natural pull that is commensurate to it's mass and rotation.

If I were to hurl you into space( like I rightfully should ), you would have your own gravitational pull commensurate with your lekpa size. There would be no godidit fastening you to any foundation.

What a pity.

For a well educated man, at that.

Enjoy.

plaetton:
I beg your pardon?

Don't be disingenuous.

I gave you a lesson in elementary astronomy to show you that there is nothing like gravitational bubble of the earth being the same thing as " foundations fastened" , because there is nothing unique about the earth having a gravity.
The Earth's gravity is just a natural pull that is commensurate to it's mass and rotation.

If I were to hurl you into space( like I rightfully should ), you would have your own gravitational pull commensurate with your lekpa size. There would be no godidit fastening you to any foundation.

smh you still do not get it.

plaetton:
Hilarious.

Big laugh.

I could equally quote chapters from my marvel comic book collection where Odin, the immortal father of THOR, sitting on his celestial throne, made similar claims.
What does it prove ?

Double the pity.

DeepSight:
What a pity.

For a well educated man, at that.

Enjoy.

Excellent rebuttal.

DeepSight:
Double the pity.

You don't get it, do you ?

Seun:
The purpose of a foundation is to anchor a building to the ground. The earth is not anchored to anything; it's flying through space and spinning. The idea of the earth having "foundations" makes some sense if you think the earth is flat and stationary, but why would God think that?

**** A foundation is not an Anchor for a building....it is a load bearer for a building.

The earth with all its mass and weight isnt falling through space but revolving and rotating but not falling.

It would require a gravitational pull so great to keep it in its position. The earth feels and responds to this G force considering its mass yet its tiny inhabitants are not crushed by such a massive G force.

Connect the dots Seun

.

plaetton:
Hilarious.

Big laugh.

I could equally quote chapters from my marvel comic book collection where Odin, the immortal father of THOR, sitting on his celestial throne, made similar claims.
What does it prove ?

The Bible is an infallible book that has stood the test of time.

How come you believe a dictionary compliled by men through God's knowledge to define mystery for you.

But you failed to believe the Bible inspired by God?

What is the logic in this? I say a non sequitur to your statement. it simply does not follow.

exhibition:
The Bible is an infallible book that has stood the test of time.

How come you believe a dictionary compliled by men through God's knowledge to define mystery for you.

But you failed to believe the Bible inspired by God?

What is the logic in this? I say a non sequitur to your statement. it simply does not follow.

It simply does not follow that I think the Bible is a book of myths?
You have problem accepting that ?
Ok. Let me ask you an honest question, and please answer simply and honestly.
Do you believe in ancient Greek gods and their interactions with men ? Do you believe tales were factual or mythical ?
Kindly explain your answer.
Thank you.

4everGod:
The earth with all its mass and weight isnt falling through space but revolving and rotating but not falling.

. .

Oh gosh!!!
Not again.

I marvel , I am flabbergasted, I am petrified at the level of sheer ignorance on display here, especially the audacity to call another person ignorant.

The Earth isn't falling because there is NO PLACE TO FALL.
Daahhhh !!

There is no Up and Down in space.
Up and down is function of gravity.

There is no gravitational pull in the vacuum of space.
Only celestial bodies exert gravitational pulls that give the appearance of ups and downs.

plaetton:
It simply does not follow that I think the Bible is a book of myths?
You have problem accepting that ?
Ok. Let me ask you an honest question, and please answer simply and honestly.
Do you believe in ancient Greek gods and their interactions with men ? Do you believe tales were factual or mythical ?
Kindly explain your answer.
Thank you.

It does not follow that you believe a dictionary to show you if God is Mysterious compared to the bible which has stood the test of time than a dictionary.

Now concerning faith in God's word and the fairy tales etc.. There are abounding evidences of martyrs, accounts with geographical and historical corroboration which are time tested and endures..

But in the case of fairy tales, Greek Gods etc. no things like that but stories created for human motives.

plaetton:
. .

Oh gosh!!!
Not again.

I marvel , I am flabbergasted, I am petrified at the level of sheer ignorance on display here, especially the audacity to call another person ignorant.

The Earth isn't falling because there is NO PLACE TO FALL.
Daahhhh !!

There is no Up and Down in space.
Up and down is function of gravity.

There is no gravitational pull in the vacuum of space.
Only celestial bodies exert gravitational pulls that give the appearance of ups and downs.

I have to correct this a bit.
The Earth is actually falling, but falling through the gravitational pull of the Sun( the heavenly Father) in a circular trajectory.
As you read this the Earth is falling through space at the speed of 108,000 km/ hr .
Just imagine that.

The Sun also is carrying the Earth and the rest of her celestial siblings along on circular orbit around the center of our milky way Galaxy system. A journey that takes 250 million years to complete, .. that's 250 million years before God was even conceived.

So, my friends, there is no such thing as the Earth being fastened on anything.
Everything, every celestial body, every atom , every electron in the universe is on the move. Always on the move.

^^^ Your very limited approach to the word "foundations" especially as used in a book like Job would have been shocking if i were not already used to your often shallow approach to the written word.

That everything in creation is in constant motion is not, and has never been in doubt: and this does absolutely nothing to refute the propriety of the context in which the word "foundations" was used in the referred scripture.

If this is the sort of kindergarten "mockery" you like to make of religionists, you will never win many over. Certainly not the lettered ones.

plaetton:
that's 250 million years before God was even conceived.

And just how many years had gravity existed before Newton attempted to describe it?

Please tell.

DeepSight:
^^^ Plaetton Einstein and Seun Einstein - I really don't know how you brilliant Physics Laureates failed to recognize the said "gravitational bubble" as the "foundations fastened" written therein.

It's such a pity party to see one of you also alluding to the "opinion" of one of Job's friends in order to exculpate himself from the implications of the knowledge stated therein.

As for Seun, his motivations are understandable. Making kindergarten statements by the dozen as he has been doing of late is obviously simply intended to keep traffic going on his forum in these hard times right? But as for you Plaetton, you have never needed an excuse have you. . . . ?

King of the word salad.

So, you now remix "a gravitational bubble" to mean "foundation"?

The salad is strong with you.



Bubble - Foundation. Do they sound similar? When we talk of foundations, do we not mean solid structures to uphold something?

Why would a gravitational force be a foundation?

In that sense, those metal container offices we see across Nigeria that have no foundation (unlike block houses) would now have gravity as their foundation. Joker.

JackBizzle:
King of the word salad.

So, you now remix "a gravitational bubble" to mean "foundation"?

The salad is strong with you.



Bubble - Foundation. Do they sound similar? When we talk of foundations, do we not mean solid structures to uphold something?

Why would a gravitational force be a foundation?

In that sense, those metal container offices we see across Nigeria that have no foundation (unlike block houses) would now have gravity as their foundation. Joker.

The joke is on your illiteracy bro.

Try to refund whatever was spent as your school fees to whoever spent it.

4everGod:
So Seun if those who were not Prophets as you say could have access to this info where do you think they got the info from? Their imagination？

Yes, of course. That the words he used to express his speculation appear scientifically accurate to you today is pure coincidence.

DeepSight:
The joke is on your illiteracy bro.

Try to refund whatever was spent as your school fees to whoever spent it.

You resort to petty insults when your salad has been exposed?

Seun:
This was not said by God. It was said by Job. Job was not a prophet, so everything he said was just his opinion. (I made a mistake initially)

Seun:
Yes, of course. That the words he used to express his speculation appear scientifically accurate to you today is pure coincidence.

Lol. Maybe Seun's argument here should be how do we know job ever existed? How are we sure all that wasn't the writers guessing.

JackBizzle:
You resort to petty insults when your salad has been exposed?

Not my staple these days; but what I wrote was just a statement of fact. You exposed nothing but your lack of thought and reason. Some "foundation" indeed.

Now scamper along, scallywag.

Codedrock:
Lol. Maybe Seun's argument here should be how do we know job ever existed? How are we sure all that wasn't the writers guessing.

Yep.

shaybebaby:
Yet the same leaders wine and dine with religious leaders that the masses look up to.
I am saying that if we are all so religious, why aren't we helping each other?
Why are we blind to the suffering of others? Why do people say they will pray rather than doing something practical to alleviate the suffering of others?
The masses have lost all belief in their own power as religion has been used to brainwash them into thinking that cannot be active participants in changing their own lives.
I read on another thread (it was hilarious but sad) how a kid answered his exam question-he didn't know the answer and instead started begging for mercy in the name of Jesus and mentioning where he worships, also saying that the teacher should let God touch her heart so as not to fail him.
That is the sort of fervour commonplace in Nigeria and as a consequence, people absolve themselves of taking responsibility for their own lives. That sort of thinking is saying to yourself you are powerless in the face of whatever life might throw at you and at the mercy of your God. When a simple revision would have removed the need of begging with Gods name.
Now if you feel that helpless to help yourself, how can you begin to feel like you can help someone else? You do the same as with your self, wait for someone else step in. So everyone is waiting for God to intervene.
Now just try to imagine that there is no God, no one to come to anyone's rescue, what would you do in that instance?
Whatever that is is what Nigerians need to start doing...but at it's heart, putting the collective social wellbeing of every citizen.

Spot On, your second paragraph is the reason I stop going to church. I was so active with my time and finances in the sanctuary department of the church but when things became so tough to the point of death, I met leaders in the church, people I know can help me or connect/recommend me. But I keep getting the response of don't worry God is in control, don't lose faith, we are praying for you. . . etc. I decided to stay back home and wait for the Lord to turn my situation around. cos my continuous going to church gets me annoyed the more. what I learnt from their response was that I can pray and worship God at my home and still get answers from him. what I kept asking myself is that if God can help me on my own what's the essence of taking my finance and spending my time in a Church.

I believe in God existence but I still need to know the essence of going to church before I will make up my mind again to start church.

DeepSight:
Not my staple these days; but what I wrote was just a statement of fact. You exposed nothing but your lack of thought and reason. Some "foundation" indeed.

Now scamper along, scallywag.

even more insults?

saladified.

Hi Seun! This thread of yours really made me start reconsidering the concept of new atheism. In my research, I came across a passage that sounded an awful lot like your op.

Their casuistry goes thus: “Those foreign jungles and deserts are seething with savages, heathens, cannibals, and headhunters. You just cannot reason with those heartless primitives; therefore it is our duty, as reasonable, civilized men to subdue them, dress and educate them in our manner, and, of course, kill them when we must — and the fact that the wealth of their native regions is flowing westward and enriching the already bloated coffers of our ruling and economic elite has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Yes I know yours has more innocent intents and reasonable means, but it just seethes with the same elitism and "let's help these primitive souls" tone. I am honestly still having an internal debate over this. So here's an article I would like you and fellow new atheists to read and we could have a great discussion on it.

https://www.nairaland.com/3378701/new-atheists-worse-than-think#49779470

MerryMonody:
Hi Seun! This thread of yours really made me start reconsidering the concept of new atheism. In my research, I came across a passage that sounded an awful lot like your op.



Yes I know yours has more innocent intents and reasonable means, but it just seethes with the same elitism and "let's help these primitive souls" tone. I am honestly still having an internal debate over this. So here's an article I would like you and fellow new atheists to read and we could have a great discussion on it.

https://www.nairaland.com/3378701/new-atheists-worse-than-think#49779470

But isn't all this the basis of Evangelical religions such as Christianity. They all seeth of elitism. Let them come and knock their heads together and from the result we will know who God really favours.