₦airaland Forum

4kings:
Like juicydiceyjoe indicated, i am talking about the ultimate Designer.
The ultimate "What if" or assumption

4kings:
Ya there are assumptions, i agree.
Can u disprove them?

4kings:
What if the Principle of Causality, does not apply in the plane where the designer comes from?
What if this plane is an intrinsic part of this designer or the designer an intrinsic part of the plane?

hahn:
assumption
əˈsʌm(p)ʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun
1.
a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof

That's your answer

joseph1013:
The answer to your question will be self-evident when there is evidence for your assumption, don't you think?

4kings:
Do you have another alternating theory?

joseph1013:
We know for a fact that many organisms on earth, including mankind, did not come through a creator but through evolution. That in itself contradicts theist's theory about a super intelligent being designing humans.

4kings:
Not all theists reject Evolution.

The render engine of a 3d simulation system can also be likened to evolution.
And the programmer can be likened to this Intelligent designer.

Or are u implying that evolution disproves a transcendent intelligent being?

joseph1013:
Perhaps you're reading your own interpretation into my simple words. When I say the theist, I refer to Mainstream Theist, the largest groups of Christians and Muslims in the world believe in a super intelligent being who directly oversaw the direct bringing into being of humans.

There are smaller sects in these two religions who believe in anything on the surface of the earth, including their own version of evolution. That's none of my business.

I am telling you that evolution disproves the existence of a creator who directly oversaw the creation of humans as depicted in those two holy books.

4kings:
I agree that there are more Creationists in the Christendom, but some have no issue with evolution there are usually called "Old Earth Creationist" those who believe the universe was not created in six days. Remember this holy book, is always open to interpretations.

However, from your response, it seems you are equating an "intelligent designer" to the God of two religions because there are popular. Am i wrong?

joseph1013:
I don't know how else to say this for you to understand. The Old Earth Creationists are one of the 3000+ sects in Christendom. An overwhelming percentage of Christians and Muslim believe God created human beings and made them lord of all creation.



This thread is about religion, so it should mean that any reference to God, supreme being, or intelligent designer would be in the context of what is written in the two biggest religions I know about.

Let me ask: what intelligent designer do you keep talking about?

4kings:
Ok, i understand now, since you are talking about religious God.

I was talking about an intelligent designer in a general sense.
I'm a deist BTW.

4kings:
Assumption is simply a hypothetical Opinion, just like Evolution.

I agreed that there are assumptions, so try disproving them and stop giving me definitions.

joseph1013:
Oh, the deist! What is your theory about an intelligent designer?

4kings:
Just as the term says, but it is also a non-interventionist.

joseph1013:
Let me give it to you Trump-style: From my perspective, I think the deist is one of two things: confused or irrational.

Deists advocate believing in something while at the same time acknowledging that there’s no evidence for it. And that’s the sign of an irrational or a confused mind.

To be fair, I can see why it is emotionally appealing, but I do know that it is not intellectually satisfying.

joseph1013:
Let me give it to you Trump-style: From my perspective, I think the deist is one of two things: confused or irrational.

Deists advocate believing in something while at the same time acknowledging that there’s no evidence for it. And that’s the sign of an irrational or a confused mind.

To be fair, I can see why it is emotionally appealing, but I do know that it is not intellectually satisfying.

4kings:
Put "atheists" in your statement, and look at your mirror again.

hahn:
Atheists don't really on wishful thinking or seek emotional satisfaction and that is why deists and theists always seem to describe us as sad.

However, I have never been more happy since I stopped dwelling on wishful thinking and fairy tales

4kings:
Wishful thinking applies to atheism, bro.

And why would a deist say atheists are sad?

hahn:
Give me one atheistic wishful ideology

Because we do not subcribe to wishful thinking

4kings:
asserting that this cosmos was not created without evidence is wishful thinking.

hahn:
We only do that because there is no evidence of a creator

UyiIredi:
There is evidence. One strong one is from the presence.of consciousness.

hahn:
How is that evidence of a creator?

4kings:
this is why i didn't want to answer your question

hahn:
How is that evidence of a creator?

joseph1013:
Perhaps you're reading your own interpretation into my simple words. When I say the theist, I refer to Mainstream Theist, the largest groups of Christians and Muslims in the world believe in a super intelligent being who directly oversaw the direct bringing into being of humans.

There are smaller sects in these two religions who believe in anything on the surface of the earth, including their own version of evolution. That's none of my business.

I am telling you that evolution disproves the existence of a creator who directly oversaw the creation of humans as depicted in those two holy books.

juicydiceyjoe:
On the side, someone actually said the genesis story actually agrees with evolution as the order in which living things were created is the same path evolution took.

UyiIredi:
Physical laws don't explain consciousness whhch is non-physical. God is required to explain the presence of consciousness.