₦airaland Forum

TheSixthSense:
Good. I believe until proven otherwise and I won't brand him a liar until he proves his story to be true - which is what this thread has been built upon and what filled up all 9 pages. Let's see how it unfolds.

Can't you see he's choking already?

Let's give him the benefit of doubt. He may be asleep. It still quite early or maybe the contact should ring him.

Gombs:
Can't you see he's choking already?

TheSixthSense:
So many aspersions being hurled around. I'm disappointed just managed to read to the end. A lot of christians cannot see the fraud in their pastors right in front of them every Sunday then talk of telling which story is true or not. What is so difficult to believe that a fervent christian can become an atheist? Is Hardmirror the first or is he going to be the last? There are numerous similar stories like his, even from people with more experience and works in ministry. So, what's the big deal?

Christians should challenge their faith as they say 'Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored' and if truth is absolute then it should be synonymous with curiosity and knowledge. Reading the New Testament in context as a historical text - since all the multiplicity of churches claim to be NT churches-. Read about the history of the religion you practice. Read about how the Bible you uphold came to be. Read about the doctrines you have come to believe. Read about history of your race and black people and civilisation. Read a bit of philosophy and Gnostism. I say these because no one can remain a fundamentalist with knowledge these, that's if one doesn't become atheist themselves.

What HardMirror pointed out clearly at the beginning of his story is that the supernatural in christianity is real but what is deceptive is the reason/motive behind it. His story, other than renouncing christianity, is simply saying that the miraculous experiences are not exclusive to christianity. In fact one only needs to be an illusionist with knowledge of hypnosis to perform these 'shows of miracles' synonymous with christianity. So, if these are what sustains you as a christian then some words of advice: 'Ignorance is Bliss' and don't read about what I mentioned earlier because if you do then maybe you won't be surprised anymore when you hear of stories like these. Most ex-christian are pushed into atheism by pentecostal and charismatic circles and this shouldn't be a mystery to its adherents but it is apparently. And also many people haven't experienced the shock of knowing what they have believed is untrue for most of their lives probably why they think becoming an atheist is some super spiritual battle. But it is not.

I was an atheist and I am now a christian and I don't find Hardmirror's narrative too ridiculous to believe, quite the contrary and I still do not doubt his story except he has been proven otherwise. Although, I think mentioning the name of a deceased person for the sake of an argument is a huge low but since it got to 10 pages because of a name l guess it is anticipated.

It should be helpful if HardMirror would respond:
Please share the books or documents you came across in your research about christianity that got you absolutely convinced about your current perception christianity. And also the materials on hypnotic techniques that pastors use that are not of christian origin.

Meanwhile, Jesus Saves!!! 'If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.'

the bolded is what i dont understand about the christians here..
They are jumping upandan but real pastors do deconvert daily...

jonbellion:
so far this is one of the mist intellegent theistic comments on this thread

hes one of the theists i like conversing with..
He's one of the few christians well versed in history here..

raphieMontella:
the bolded is what i dont understand about the christians here..
They are jumping upandan but real pastors do deconvert daily...

How am i not shocked you would jump on that comment since it blinds you to the real reason behind this thread. I have asked you to B E A P E D E S T R I AN.

NPComplete:
Um nope. I disagree with this. If there's even a little possibility he may have told that lie, then every bit of his story should be stripped down so we can separate fact from fiction. It's true that humans are infused with an innate need to embellish stories but if that raises questions about the authenticity of the whole story, we owe it to ourselves and everyone reading this to acknowledge the fragment that it true and debunk the false ones. It's a moral obligation.

agreed!

raphieMontella:
hes one of the theists i like conversing with..
He's one of the few christians well versed in history here..

lol promise10 is the exact opposite

damogul:
How am i not shocked you would jump on that comment since it blinds you to the real reason behind this thread. I have asked you to B E A P E D E S T R I AN.

so as a pedestrian i cant buy banana by the roadside again?
Haba bros...

OneManLegion:
I really wish I could say "I understand" but I truly don't understand why Howmon can't affirm or negate the names of the living Hardmirror has supplied or the events and crusades he's been a part of.

In essence, according to you, the credibility of this story and indeed, Hardmirror's integrity lies solely on Howmon, who happens to be a Christian.

What if Howmon deliberately denies it?

Truth is, if you were this skeptical of your faith, you would have abandoned it a long time ago.

Bros, how you dey think nah?

Na Howmon make the claim?

The names of the living dey related to this case?

Howmon just stepped in to ask to know the name of the so called leader wey die, thats because him be member of the fellowship and him know the name of the leader and the leader never die

Me go challenge you still come provide proof?


Abeg, u sef reason am nah.

The names of the living Hardmirror presented can be random names from anywhere, but the dead fellowship leader in 2010 can not be random.

Let him provide the name and we will then proof that he lied, for that man is alive and well today.

raphieMontella:
so as a pedestrian i cant banana by the roadside again?
Haba bros...

We are on the road and you are on the roadside so sit there and eat your banana with nuts. Just dont throw the peel onto the road...its uncivilized and not a smart thing to do.

damogul:
We are on the road and you are on the roadside so sit there and eat your banana with nuts. Just dont throw the peel onto the road...its uncivilized and not a smart thing to do.

okay sire

raphieMontella:
okay sire

Good boy!

damogul:
Good boy!

...........

analice107:
Bros, how you dey think nah?

Na Howmon make the claim?

The names of the living dey related to this case?

Howmon just stepped in to ask to know the name of the so called leader wey die, thats because him be member of the fellowship and him know the name of the leader and the leader never die

Me go challenge you still come provide proof?


Abeg, u sef reason am nah.

The names of the living Hardmirror presented can be random names from anywhere, but the dead fellowship leader in 2010 can not be random.

Let him provide the name and we will then proof that he lied, for that man is alive and well today.

Aunty, how can a person bring up more than 3 random names that would turn out correct?

Even you wouldn't buy that bull. If he doesn't want to mention the dead colleague(obviously for reasons bordering on ethics), why won't the CACCF member affirm/discredit the ones he's mentioned already that are still alive?

How hard could this be?

OneManLegion:
Aunty, how can a person bring up more than 3 random names that would turn out correct?

Even you wouldn't buy that bull. If he doesn't want to mention the dead colleague, why won't the CACCF member discredit the ones he's mentioned already that are still alive?

How hard could this be?

Anyone who attended FUTA would know those names as CACCF was popular which is why their notable members would also be popular..Besides they were also friends outside the fellowship and coursemates to a few.

This thread was a deliberate attempt to get us to refute HardMirrors story and he is not the one to dictate to us how to go about it or where to begin from. We chose to start from the least important detail which is beginning to look like the most important detail right now.

Investigations must begin from somewhere and the investigator chooses where he feels is most appropriate and we have chosen.

damogul:
HELLO GUYS I APPRECIATE EVERYONE WHO HAS TAKEN INTEREST IN THIS HARDMIRROR DEBACLE AND I HAVE BEEN QUIET FOR A BIT BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN BUSY GATHERING THE MUCH NEEDED EVIDENCE HE CHALLENGED ME FOR.

IF WITHIN THE NEXT 24HRS HARDMIRROR DOES NOT MENTION THAT NAME HE HAS BEEN MISCHIEVOUSLY COVERING THEN I WILL LAY EVERYTHING BARE HERE ON NAIRALAND BUT ON A FRESH THREAD WITH A LINK TO THIS ONE.

I APPEAL TO EVERYONE TO BE PATIENT TILL TOMORROW WHEN I WILL UPDATE YOU ALL. I DO HOWEVER PROMISE THAT IT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING INDEED!

CC SEUN
CC HOPEFULLANDLORD
CC HARDMIRROR
CC RAPHIEMONTELLA
CC NPCOMPLETE
CC THEONEJABULANI
CC SIRWERE AND ALL OTHERS.

WE SHALL ALL LIVE TO SEE TOMORROW IN J E S U S NAME AS WE LOOK FORWARD TO THIS UPDATE.

HAVE A GOODNIGHT ALL

I've missed a lot.


It's nice to see progress in this thread.

---

By the way; I've got some questions regarding your thread but I'll shelf it until this issue is resolved

The names He mentioned already are not name of people I know. The CACCF caught my attention has it was my fellowship in school.

OneManLegion:
Aunty, how can a person bring up more than 3 random names that would turn out correct?

Even you wouldn't buy that bull. If he doesn't want to mention the dead colleague(obviously for reasons bordering on ethics), why won't the CACCF member affirm/discredit the ones he's mentioned already that are still alive?

How hard could this be?

damogul:
Anyone who attended FUTA would know those names as CACCF was popular which is why their notable members would also be popular..Besides they were also friends outside the fellowship and coursemates to a few.

This thread was a deliberate attempt to get us to refute HardMirrors story and he is not the one to dictate to us how to go about it or where to begin from. We chose to start from the least important detail which is beginning to look like the most important detail right now.

Investigations must begin from somewhere and the investigator chooses where he feels is most appropriate and we have chosen.

You're quite right @bolded.

However, I need to remind you that this isn't HardMirror's thread so you can't compel him to answer your questions in your genuine and understandable quest to validate or negate his story.

Secondly, Hardmirror created a thread for this same purpose in which he asked people to ask any question(regarding his story) and he'd answer if same for him.

While you're largely correct that an outsider may make claims to knowing the said members, Hardmirror has given more than sufficient information about himself to give enough clues.

Thirdly, as a member of the same fellowship, Howmon could ask other questions that would give less room for excuses of evasion by Hardmirror on the basis of ethics so How.mon could consider those options for the purpose of expediency.

NOTE: They have agreed to establish correspondence offline so that How.mon could have a chance to thoroughly grill Hard.mirror so let's see the outcome.

In any case, we all await Hard.mirror now.

Howmon:
The names He mentioned already are not name of people I know. The CACCF caught my attention has it was my fellowship in school.

Wow

Howmon:
The names He mentioned already are not name of people I know. The CACCF caught my attention has it was my fellowship in school.

interesting! pls everyone should note that Howmon was an ACTIVE member of the CACCF fellowship and graduated in 2010 which means he schooled same time HardMirror did.

Howmon:
The names He mentioned already are not name of people I know. The CACCF caught my attention has it was my fellowship in school.

You don't know those names?

Now, _shit's getting real!

Were you in his set?

You seem sincere enough. If anyone can unravel the truth, it should be you.

Howmon:
How do u mean you've not seen my reply yet. Check well oh, as u can mail me now. Not seen your email and I responded okay to the request I got from you. I'll still respond again now.

Check now

Howmon:
The names He mentioned already are not name of people I know. The CACCF caught my attention has it was my fellowship in school.

Common dude. I am beginning to suspect u are not being truthful urself. U want to claim u don't know Pastor Ogundare? Or Olusola Areogun? Or the loves domain peeps? Common. U have to know one of those names he mentioned or ur story should be followed with caution. These are people JCCF or any other fellowship invite almost every time every year.

lilbest4:
this is why I said you are "fooling yourself"

any way this thread is not about you oh super intellengtia that that is too enlightened to understand that SUPERNATURAL/MAGIC IS BEYOND SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS. will wait for hardmirror to answer my kwesion.. so long dude


loading

HardMirror:
Howmon, not gotten your reply yet. I am posting now because I could be busy most times. Hope we talk soon

while you at it dont forget my question stands here

HardMirror:
CONTINUATION...
I LOSE MY FAITH IN THE BIBLE, Jesus and RELIGIOUS CONCEPT OF GOD.
Before I continue.
Miracles exists
Witchcraft
Speaking in tongues is real
Everything supernatural about christianity is real.
What is not real is the reason behind it.
It is just like magic.
Real magic is does not exist, but that does not mean magic is not real. Magic is real as long as you are ready to overlook the tricks behind the magic and just enjoy the show.

https://www.nairaland.com/3078223/pastor-atheist-why-never-christian/5#45205356

supernatural - of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

magic- the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

refrence google.

are these you stated based on supernatural/magic

HardMirror
I guess you don't want people to see the bolded, you don't want them to know that placebo, adrenaline, hypnosis, derangment, delusion, hallucinations, intelligent forecasting, cold reading are the secrets behind this . Just as tricks are the secrets of magic.

can TRICKS BE MAGIC?

iRyan:
Everyone here should calm down and take a chill pill. Hardmirror may have told a lie, but that shouldn't be a reason to rescind his story as every human is guilty of the same when they tell a story.
Everyone has sometime squeezed in a lie or two into their stories to make it fascinating and mesmerizing

Little little bits of lie, have the capacity to alter the morale of a story moreso if it is an anti-theist story by an atheist.

Howmon:
Thank you my brother, your fears are well placed when you said what if I deny it. Let it be known that CACCF is an active fellowship with an active alumni fellowship. Your guy has not mailed me. If He has I will say it categorically. I have nothing to lose or gain from confirming His story. Our alumni fellowship is on whatsapp and I will send snapshots of conversations with the fellowship to confirm to u there is no reason to hide the name of anyone. He made the claim he should do well to tell us the name. I don't even know this hardmirror guy, can I know the year he graduated and the year He went for this outreaches and under which fellowship did He go on outreach.

That is a good idea, as to not knowing me, don't worry about that, you will confirm it all soon. I have replied you. I am not a member of caccf, but Asf and the brother in question sometimes comes to use our fellowship tent (when the fellowship was still off redemption street). Let's keep this open and let's be honourable. I know you are still a christian, I am not asking you to help me, but what ever you do, STICK TO THE TRUTH and BE HONOURABLE. I have seen so many people ready to beat me to pulp for my confessions, even here you can see how many are calling for my head. But I will wait and see what you do with this. Right now the investigation of NOT JUST THE DEAD BROTHER, BUT ALL MY CONFESSIONs lie on your shoulder.

damogul:
The Clock is Ticking HardMirror!

You are dreaming. I stand by everything I have said on nairaland. I know you badly want my story to be a lie, unfortunately for you, all is about to be confirmed. Stick around.

damogul:
This is who we are sir we are upholders of truth and not deliberate fabrications bandied as truth in order to deceive the gullible. That is satans agenda and he uses Humans to do this all too well.

I know anyone can fall away from the faith but that is not the purpose of this thread or what we are doing. Those who genuinely fell away should be truthful with their stories but those who would lie about it need to be exposed.

HardMirror your clock is ticking!

thanks bros if only he said he no do christianity... who cares... seun no do again making his money and what gives.. we accept him .. but to come here and claim everything about supernatural christianity is real then turn around to say the reason is not real. makes one wonder.

Howmon:
Thank you my brother, your fears are well placed when you said what if I deny it. Let it be known that CACCF is an active fellowship with an active alumni fellowship. Your guy has not mailed me. If He has I will say it categorically. I have nothing to lose or gain from confirming His story. Our alumni fellowship is on whatsapp and I will send snapshots of conversations with the fellowship to confirm to u there is no reason to hide the name of anyone. He made the claim he should do well to tell us the name. I don't even know this hardmirror guy, can I know the year he graduated and the year He went for this outreaches and under which fellowship did He go on outreach.

TheSixthSense:
Let's give him the benefit of doubt. He may be asleep. It still quite early or maybe the contact should ring him.

Bro don't stress it. I know they are a pack of wolves desperately waiting for my story to be debunked. That won't happen. Truth is truth. Need not say more. I await howmon's reply so his findings about me and the story would be made known here.

Choiiiii,

Hardmirror see as everybody just dey clamour for ya blood

TheSixthSense:
So many aspersions being hurled around. I'm disappointed just managed to read to the end. A lot of christians cannot see the fraud in their pastors right in front of them every Sunday then talk of telling which story is true or not. What is so difficult to believe that a fervent christian can become an atheist? Is Hardmirror the first or is he going to be the last? There are numerous similar stories like his, even from people with more experience and works in ministry. So, what's the big deal?

Christians should challenge their faith as they say 'Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored' and if truth is absolute then it should be synonymous with curiosity and knowledge. Reading the New Testament in context as a historical text - since all the multiplicity of churches claim to be NT churches-. Read about the history of the religion you practice. Read about how the Bible you uphold came to be. Read about the doctrines you have come to believe. Read about history of your race and black people and civilisation. Read a bit of philosophy and Gnostism. I say these because no one can remain a fundamentalist with knowledge these, that's if one doesn't become atheist themselves.

What HardMirror pointed out clearly at the beginning of his story is that the supernatural in christianity is real but what is deceptive is the reason/motive behind it. His story, other than renouncing christianity, is simply saying that the miraculous experiences are not exclusive to christianity. In fact one only needs to be an illusionist with knowledge of hypnosis to perform these 'shows of miracles' synonymous with christianity. So, if these are what sustains you as a christian then some words of advice: 'Ignorance is Bliss' and don't read about what I mentioned earlier because if you do then maybe you won't be surprised anymore when you hear of stories like these. Most ex-christian are pushed into atheism by pentecostal and charismatic circles and this shouldn't be a mystery to its adherents but it is apparently. And also many people haven't experienced the shock of knowing what they have believed is untrue for most of their lives probably why they think becoming an atheist is some super spiritual battle. But it is not.

I was an atheist and I am now a christian and I don't find Hardmirror's narrative too ridiculous to believe, quite the contrary and I still do not doubt his story except he has been proven otherwise. Although, I think mentioning the name of a deceased person for the sake of an argument is a huge low but since it got to 10 pages because of a name l guess it is anticipated.

It should be helpful if HardMirror would respond:
Please share the books or documents you came across in your research about christianity that got you absolutely convinced about your current perception christianity. And also the materials on hypnotic techniques that pastors use that are not of christian origin.

Meanwhile, Jesus Saves!!! 'If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.'

Mr Six, following the proceedings here, am not sure the ish is about Hardmirror falling off the wagon. People fall off everyday.

Apostle Peter fell off, was restored, Judas Iscariot, Fell off and killed himself. My point? People will keep falling off. But the case here is that, he made claims that made his story sound authentic.

He intended to redicule and cast aspersions on the God of the Christians, that also is something Christians can take.

But, some Christians were called to point out lies in his story which was magnified to FP.

Those Christians started investigating Hardmirror by asking questions. I have been following, Hardmirror has not answer even one of those questions.

Even in the movies, we see detectives asking loads of questions. Are you guiltless? Then answer the questions.

What is the big deal in that?