Chinenye has explained what an oracle is.

I tried to paint a simple picture explaining one aspect of the differences.

Nothing further needs be said. It's embarrassing that this is a topic of dissent. I've always assumed that it was a generally acknowledged fact.

U still went ahead and missed the point. U listed a number of Nnewi deities. If they (the Nnewi deities u listed) performed oracular functions, were they as famed as Ibini Ukpabi. U forgot, or chose to ignore the fact that this long debate came about when someone said Ibini Ukpabi was the most renowned Igbo oracle. The most renowned! Not the ONLY one.
But anyway...

I'll just take my ASININE self off of here.

Radoillo: Chinenye has explained what an oracle is.

I tried to paint a simple picture explaining one aspect of the differences.

Nothing future needs be said. It's embarrassing that this is a topic of dissent. I've always assumed that it was a generally acknowledged fact.

But anyway...

I'll just take my ASININE self off of here.

U run cos u know u goofed big time on that score.Admit ur mistake n let's move on,don't hide behind Chnenye's wrapper.What the guy does not know about Igbo culture,be it his own Ngwa culture or the wider Igbo culture,is much.I used to think u know better until u started immersing urself in Abagworo's revisionism n there u got lost.
Acknowledging Nri-Oka civilization n the role played by the Nri does not take anything away from the part played by Oka.
Nri is not all of Igbo,but they did play a great role in shaping what we know today as the greater Igbo culture along with other Igbo groups like Aro.That is not such a hard thing to acknowledge n accept.
Oh,my beef with u is not about the most renowned of deities,that is a matter of individual opinion actually.My grouse is with ur classification of Oracular n "ordinary" deities,whatever those mean.

OK, just to clarify a few issues:

I don't agree 100% with the article written by Dr Nwaezeigwe which Abagworo posted. And I stated that. The dates don't add up. I have independently encountered traditions saying Eri was igala, and I shared it, quoting my source in full. I don't neccessarily agree that the information I shared is the correct version of events. Indeed I'm very skeptical about all oral tradition, especially those dealing with periods earlier than the 18th century or so. I was sharing information for information's sake. Simple.

And I never denied Nri's position in the scheme of things. They cleansed abomination in my town, like they did throughout Northern and Western Igboland. They performed ozo initiation rituals for our men. Their hegemony no doubt shaped the cultural history of the people under their ritual sway (and that includes Awka people). But I just can't stand someone saying Awka was an Nri colony, or settlement, when we all know what Nri traditions say about the relationship between the two towns. Nri traditions acknowledge Awka was the older of the two.



And Chinenye is actually more knowledgeable than u give him credit for. Just had to point that out.

Sorry I could not find a less 'demeaning' term than 'ordinary' while trying to make my point. *shrugs*

Radoillo: OK, just to clarify a few issues:

I don't agree 100% with the article written by Dr Nwaezeigwe which Abagworo posted. And I stated that. The dates don't add up. I have independently encountered traditions saying Eri was igala, and I shared it, quoting my source in full. I don't neccessarily agree that the information I shared is the correct version of events. Indeed I'm very skeptical about all oral tradition, especially those dealing with periods earlier than the 18th century or so. I was sharing information for information's sake. Simple.

And I never denied Nri's position in the scheme of things. They cleansed abomination in my town, like they did throughout Northern and Western Igboland. They performed ozo initiation rituals for our men. Their hegemony no doubt shaped the cultural history of the people under their ritual sway (and that includes Awka people). But I just can't stand someone saying Awka was an Nri colony, or settlement, when we all know what Nri traditions say about the relationship between the two towns. Nri traditions acknowledge Awka was the older of the two.



And Chinenye is actually more knowledgeable than u give him credit for. Just had to point that out.

Sorry I could not find a less 'demeaning' term than 'ordinary' while trying to make my point. *shrugs*

Can u point to where it was said Awka was an Nri colony n who said it?.I've bn following this thread from the start,can't find where such claim was made.Asking for the origin of Urueri people n how they came by the name does not equate calling Awka Nri colony,unless u are grasping at straws.
Chinenye might be good in conducting research,but he invariably fails at being able to connect the dots of the various pieces of information he comes across n forming a full picture therefrom.I did say he misses the forest for the trees earlier,didn't I?

The way I understand English, this means Awka was an Nri colony....

NRI PRIEST:

Get this into your thick skull....NRI COLONIZED AWKA...!

This one was on a different thread. It was actually one of the statements that forced me to sign up and join this forum. I might be wrong but it seems he is the same person as Nri Priest. His tone throughout this debate indicates he still believes his statement quoted below:

Odenigbo Aroli:


Oka is an Nri settlement,you propagandist.!

Also, how do you think I should interprete this statement made on this very thread?

Antivirus92: And unfortunately, awka was among umunri towns.

These guys weren't speculating. They weren't making "I could be wrong, but...." statements. I explained to Antivirus that Umueri tradition states that their ancestor was Eri Onwa, an Amaenyiana authochtone; but that wasn't good enough for him. They were sure and set in their assertions. And, mehn, Nwa Awka aint standing for that, cos I know what tradition states.

Nwaokoye Odenigbo, an Ozo-titled man from Uruoji, Nri was interviewed in 1967, when he was over 83 years old, by the famous ethnographer of Nri descent, Mr M A Onwuejeogwu. And this is what he said. The words are on record. [Note that Nwaokoye was regarded as an encyclopedia of Nri traditions in the palace of the Eze Nri]

"He [Eri, father of Nri] was a great man sent by God to rule all the people of the Anambra. Before he came to the Anambra, the people were living in scattered huts. They had no king. It is said that the earth was not firm, as it is today, when he was on earth. He got Awka smiths to use bellows to dry the flooded land. The Anambra at times floods its banks."

The language of the tradition is symbolic and poetic; it probably doesn't describe an actual drying of the floodplains. What it does indicate was that Nri recognized Awka was there before Eri; and that the people had attained a certain level of sophistication, [had attained an iron-age culture].

pokur:
U run cos u know u goofed big time on that score.Admit ur mistake n let's move on,don't hide behind Chnenye's wrapper.What the guy does not know about Igbo culture,be it his own Ngwa culture or the wider Igbo culture,is much.I used to think u know better until u started immersing urself in Abagworo's revisionism n there u got lost.
Acknowledging Nri-Oka civilization n the role played by the Nri does not take anything away from the part played by Oka.
Nri is not all of Igbo,but they did play a great role in shaping what we know today as the greater Igbo culture along with other Igbo groups like Aro.That is not such a hard thing to acknowledge n accept.
Oh,my beef with u is not about the most renowned of deities,that is a matter of individual opinion actually.My grouse is with ur classification of Oracular n "ordinary" deities,whatever those mean.

I personally challenge you to point out "Abagworo's revisionism" as you claimed. In all my statements I've always acknowledged Nri's influence but I boldly say it that Nri is not an Igbo aboriginal group for they came and met Igbos who were already settled. I'm ready to challenge anyone on that. The earliest Igbos are the Ihites/Ifites or Nfunalas or literally those that sprouted from earth or those that have lost history of ever migrating from anywhere and meeting any previous peoples.

abagoro:

I personally challenge you to point out "Abagworo's revisionism" as you claimed. In all my statements I've always acknowledged Nri's influence but I boldly say it that Nri is not an Igbo aboriginal group for they came and met Igbos who were already settled. I'm ready to challenge anyone on that. The earliest Igbos are the Ihites/Ifites or Nfunalas or literally those that sprouted from earth or those that have lost history of ever migrating from anywhere and meeting any previous peoples.

Back up ur assertion with verifiable proof,else shut the eff up.

Radoillo: OK, just to clarify a few issues:

I don't agree 100% with the article written by Dr Nwaezeigwe which Abagworo posted. And I stated that. The dates don't add up. I have independently encountered traditions saying Eri was igala, and I shared it, quoting my source in full. I don't neccessarily agree that the information I shared is the correct version of events. Indeed I'm very skeptical about all oral tradition, especially those dealing with periods earlier than the 18th century or so. I was sharing information for information's sake. Simple.

And I never denied Nri's position in the scheme of things. They cleansed abomination in my town, like they did throughout Northern and Western Igboland. They performed ozo initiation rituals for our men. Their hegemony no doubt shaped the cultural history of the people under their ritual sway (and that includes Awka people). But I just can't stand someone saying Awka was an Nri colony, or settlement, when we all know what Nri traditions say about the relationship between the two towns. Nri traditions acknowledge Awka was the older of the two.

And Chinenye is actually more knowledgeable than u give him credit for. Just had to point that out.

Sorry I could not find a less 'demeaning' term than 'ordinary' while trying to make my point. *shrugs*

Interesting discussion. There was a related one a few months ago with Physics and we raised some of the same points. I was curious about the Awka perspective on this relationship. I agree with you that it's an ancient settlement and probably a rich archaeological site for some future investigator.

TerraCotta:

Interesting discussion. There was a related one a few months ago with Physics and we raised some of the same points. I was curious about the Awka perspective on this relationship. I agree with you that it's an ancient settlement and probably a rich archaeological site for some future investigator.

Some stone tools (celts) were found there in the '30s. Recently I've heard of some metal objects being dug up. Unfortunately though, no one appears interested in following up these findings and doing more systematic 'digging' in the place.

It's unfortunate how archaeology and anthropology are trivialized in Nigeria. In my research, I remember reading how stone tools were uncovered in Ngwa, one of which supposedly dated as far back as 50,000 years. Yet, not one single archaeological dig has occurred since that accidental discovery. Honestly, I believe it would be very interesting to see how far we can go in effectively reconstructing the history of southeastern Nigeria.

Every archaeological discovery in Nigeria has been accidental, every single one, and if not for people of European descent the artefacts would be discarded or broken down for reuse. It's a cultural thing, it's the same reason Nigerians don't go to museums, preserve old structures/natural spaces and objects, the reason they don't take pictures of scenery or anything that isn't a relative/friends face, or read to their children at night.

Short attention spans, which is why there's absolutely no sign Nigeria was in a heavy war 40 years ago or that it was ever a British colony.

ChinenyeN: It's unfortunate how archaeology and anthropology are trivialized in Nigeria. In my research, I remember reading how stone tools were uncovered in Ngwa, one of which supposedly dated as far back as 50,000 years. Yet, not one single archaeological dig has occurred since that accidental discovery. Honestly, I believe it would be very interesting to see how far we can go in effectively reconstructing the history of southeastern Nigeria.

I totally agree. Unfortunately, this type of work is usually funded by academia or cultural institutions with major endowments and we don't seem to have many of those active anymore in Nigeria. I hold out hope that some of the major businesses (Dangote? Glo? First Bank?) will incorporate this into their corporate social responsibility plans someday. Funding is a major problem for cultural research anywhere though.

ezeagu: Every archaeological discovery in Nigeria has been accidental, every single one, and if not for people of European descent the artefacts would be discarded or broken down for reuse.

You're wrong, and working Nigerian archaeologists like Professors Ogundiran (http://africana.uncc.edu/people/dr-akin-ogundiran-phd) and Usman (https://sst.clas.asu.edu/aribidesi-usman) are living, working proof. I understand that it's hard to find their work if you're not a professional academic but that doesn't mean it does not exist. There are working Nigerian archaeologists making interesting finds everyday. They might not be the spectacular bronze or brassworks or major architectural works but they're crucial pieces in the puzzle of reconstructing the precolonial past.

It's a cultural thing, it's the same reason Nigerians don't go to museums, preserve old structures/natural spaces and objects, the reason they don't take pictures of scenery or anything that isn't a relative/friends face, or read to their children at night.

Short attention spans, which is why there's absolutely no sign Nigeria was in a heavy war 40 years ago or that it was ever a British colony.

I don't want to dispute your personal experience but other people have had a very different experience--going to the museums in Lagos, Umuahia and Jos, preserving old structures and natural spaces in Ibadan, Calabar, Osogbo, Benin, Kano and Ile-Ife, taking scenic photos etc. It's easy to generalize about how uncultured we are but I don't think it's accurate; if anything, we can see how attached Nigerians are to their cultures here. There's just very little money and education devoted to the field, which is a fairly common problem worldwide.

Radoillo:

Some stone tools (celts) were found there in the '30s. Recently I've heard of some metal objects being dug up. Unfortunately though, no one appears interested in following up these findings and doing more systematic 'digging' in the place.

.

I have a good feeling that someone will turn up a milestone find in that area. There are some other under-explored areas in central Nigeria (current Niger and Kogi state), the Ondo-Ekiti area and Kano (although I'm less familiar with that area) that I expect will revolutionize what we know sooner or later.

-

TerraCotta: You're wrong, and working Nigerian archaeologists like Professors Ogundiran (http://africana.uncc.edu/people/dr-akin-ogundiran-phd) and Usman (https://sst.clas.asu.edu/aribidesi-usman) are living, working proof. I understand that it's hard to find their work if you're not a professional academic but that doesn't mean it does not exist. There are working Nigerian archaeologists making interesting finds everyday. They might not be the spectacular bronze or brassworks or major architectural works but they're crucial pieces in the puzzle of reconstructing the precolonial past.

The major discoveries were by accident, not by piecing together. The point was that nothing was being done at present in Awka.

TerraCotta: I don't want to dispute your personal experience but other people have had a very different experience--going to the museums in Lagos, Umuahia and Jos, preserving old structures and natural spaces in Ibadan, Calabar, Osogbo, Benin, Kano and Ile-Ife, taking scenic photos etc. It's easy to generalize about how uncultured we are but I don't think it's accurate; if anything, we can see how attached Nigerians are to their cultures here. There's just very little money and education devoted to the field, which is a fairly common problem worldwide.

Most of those museums are shut most times of the year, it's a well known fact, and most parks and natural spaces have been overrun by weed or used for trading.

ezeagu: Every archaeological discovery in Nigeria has been accidental, every single one, and if not for people of European descent the artefacts would be discarded or broken down for reuse. It's a cultural thing, it's the same reason Nigerians don't go to museums, preserve old structures/natural spaces and objects, the reason they don't take pictures of scenery or anything that isn't a relative/friends face, or read to their children at night.

Short attention spans, which is why there's absolutely no sign Nigeria was in a heavy war 40 years ago or that it was ever a British colony.

Digging up old tooths and combs has little to contribute to the survival of any human society. I believe archaeology is a modern and elitist profession or an expensive hobby. Its not a cultural thing, its a human thing, nobody spends time and money to dig up up artefacts that are 500 years until recent times when universities came up and people needed to earn degrees in different fields of knowledge. The major reasons people dig up stuffs is to look for valuable things to exploit or use personally, nobody dusts them and put them on counters or glass cases and write volumes of books on them until recently.
There is no need to bash Nigerians over this, most people today would still prefer to sell or melt down the gold mask of Tutankhamen for other uses than store it a glass case and spend millions to guard it.

ezeagu:

The major discoveries were by accident, not by piecing together. The point was that nothing was being done at present in Awka.



Most of those museums are shut most times of the year, it's a well known fact, and most parks and natural spaces have been overrun by weed or used for trading.

If there was less corruption in the country most of those places would not be over-run by weeds, but in any country or culture given a choice between preserving the artefacts of the past and providing basic amenities for the people now, I would leave those things in the soil where they have been for centuries and do the needful now so that other future generations would also know that we were once here.

ezeagu:

The major discoveries were by accident, not by piecing together. The point was that nothing was being done at present in Awka.

You're changing goalposts. Earlier, you wrote:

ezeagu: Every archaeological discovery in Nigeria has been accidental, every single one, and if not for people of European descent the artefacts would be discarded or broken down for reuse.

That's obviously wrong, which is I was pointing it out.

Most of those museums are shut most times of the year, it's a well known fact, and most parks and natural spaces have been overrun by weed or used for trading.

I don't know which ones you're talking about. These broad generalizations aren't helpful. If you live in or vist Lagos, you can go to visit the National Museum from 9 am to 5 pm. It's in very poor shape because of funding issues but it's available for anyone who's interested for about 150 naira: http://premiumtimesng.com/regional/125968-lagos-residents-want-fg-to-upgrade-national-museum.html

There's also the Didi Museum, TerraKulture, Nike Art Center(s) etc:

http://ckdigital.net/didimuseum/
http://www.nikeart.com/
http://home.terrakulture.com/

Parks and natural spaces aren't in short supply either. There's the Lekki Conservation Center (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g304026-d2305113-Reviews-Lekki_Conservation_Centre-Lagos_Lagos_State.html) in Lagos, the 100-acre IITA campus in Ibadan (http://inasonki-ng.com/2013/05/01/getaway-iita-ibadan/), and Obudu ranch in Cross River state (http://www.africansunhotels.com/?fuseaction=hotels.info&name=obudu_mountain_resort), off the top of my head.

These are a few of the ones I know of personally and I am sure there are many more. The point is there are working archaeologists and available cultural and natural institutions, if you're interested in attending them. They may not be up to the global standard in some (not all) cases but it would be wrong to say they don't exist.

Apologies for derailing the thread.

TerraCotta:

You're changing goalposts. Earlier, you wrote:



That's obviously wrong, which is I was pointing it out.

It's not that serious, were talking about major discoveries here so when I say every archaeological discovery in Nigeria has been by accident I'm not taking about 150 year old hair combs. But even if we're talking about all, most if not all are found by accident with the archaeological teams following. It's unlike in Europe for example where there is a documented site where archaeologists try to find something. Anyway, we've already talked about how there's no interest in archaeology from the looks of things. All in all, anything else is an exception to the rule.

TerraCotta: I don't know which ones you're talking about. These broad generalizations aren't helpful. If you live in or vist Lagos, you can go to visit the National Museum from 9 am to 5 pm. It's in very poor shape because of funding issues but it's available for anyone who's interested for about 150 naira: http://premiumtimesng.com/regional/125968-lagos-residents-want-fg-to-upgrade-national-museum.html

There's also the Didi Museum, TerraKulture, Nike Art Center(s) etc:

http://ckdigital.net/didimuseum/
http://www.nikeart.com/
http://home.terrakulture.com/

Parks and natural spaces aren't in short supply either. There's the Lekki Conservation Center (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g304026-d2305113-Reviews-Lekki_Conservation_Centre-Lagos_Lagos_State.html) in Lagos, the 100-acre IITA campus in Ibadan (http://inasonki-ng.com/2013/05/01/getaway-iita-ibadan/), and Obudu ranch in Cross River state (http://www.africansunhotels.com/?fuseaction=hotels.info&name=obudu_mountain_resort), off the top of my head.

These are a few of the ones I know of personally and I am sure there are many more. The point is there are working archaeologists and available cultural and natural institutions, if you're interested in attending them. They may not be up to the global standard in some (not all) cases but it would be wrong to say they don't exist.

Apologies for derailing the thread.

Most of them are shut for most of the year, there was a documentary on the Benin kingdom on the BBC and you could tell they opened the main museum at Benin for the crew because the whole place was empty.

Abagworo:

Umuibe,

A lie repeated severally could soon become a fact.

For me, one of the enduring outcomes of the inaugural IDU USA annual convention held in Langhorne, PA in October 2009 was the book given to me by Igwe Martin N. Ezeh (Idu II of Igboukwu) titled “The Igbo and Their Nri Neighbors” which is authored by Prof. Nwankwo T. Nwaezeigwe. The professor of history at the UNN, through his landmark research, was able to debunk the heap of lies deliberately orchestrated by some interest groups about Ndiigbo and our historical past.

The thrust of his research work was putting the Nri clan in proper perspective within the context of Igbo history. Based on historical records which he obtained from the Portuguese archives, he was able to pinpoint the exact decade that Eri, the progenitor of the Nri clan, arrived Aguleri after fleeing his home in Igala in today’s Kogi state. Eri was one of the princes of the Onoja dynasty which was ruling the Igala Kingdom at the time. As the professor of history discovered through his research work, a Portuguese traveler visiting Benin City documented that the Oba of Benin commissioned one of the ruling Bini princes, Atta, to sack the Onoja ruling house and to subdue the Igala kingdom in the 1st decade of 16th Century. That successful military expedition established the Atta dynasty that still holds sway in Igala kingdom till date. Eri, being one of the princes of the routed Onoja dynasty, fled south along the River Niger to escape capture and resettled amongst indigenous inhabitants of Aguleri.

Prof. Nwaezeigwe was not done yet. He methodically researched and documented the eventual southward and eastward migration of Eri descendants, Umu Eri (Umu Nri), into the Igbo heartland long after the death of their founding father. The author actually opted to temporarily live amongst his research target in places like Akamkpisi, Agu-Ukwu, Enugwu-ukwu etc and used the opportunity to interview many people who regard themselves as part of the Umu Nri clan. He was able to reconstruct the sequence of arrivals and settlements in many Umu Nri communities, including Oraeri which was one of the last outposts to be settled.
by Dr. Okenwa R. Nwosu

 Most Igbo have never asked why another name for Nri town is Agukwu. The name originates from the fact that as visitors, the Nri people perform cleansing rites "ikpu alu" around Igboland. Because this is not a job for the freeborn "nwa afo", they were given a land to live in evil forest "agu ukwu" across the river seperating Agulu and Enugwu Ukwu (and jointly owned by both towns) to carry out their cleasing and sacrificial duties. This explains why of all towns in Anambra, Nri/Agukwu occupies one of the the smallest parcel of land in the whole of Anambra state.

The actual myth of Nri as the progenitor of the Igbo was given wings by Professor Onwuejeogwu's published anthropological doctoral research work on the Nri. One question that the proponents of Nri hegemony in Igboland have not asked is why the University of Ibadan refused to award Onwuejeogwu his Ph.D. based on that research; he was rather awarded a Masters degree after the extensive research that is today playing a part in the attempt to rewrite Igbo history. This is one misinformation to be exposed as fervently as anyone can before Nri is allowed to share the high table in Igbo cultural history.

People who are in doubt should consult Prof. A. E. Afigbo who is an expert in History of Inter Group Relations in Nigeria. His lecture will synchronize with what Mazi Okenwa mentioned on Igala origin of Nri people and the Onoja-Oboni ancestral origin.
By Emma Ozili
Mydesmond A at 22:57
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http://orientalreporters..co.uk/2013/06/indigbo-and-her-integrated-errnri.html?m=1

I am greatly surprised by the content of this discussion. It’s proof of how drastically the beliefs of the Internet world could differ from the realities of the true world.

I am Nnewi South and here’s our general view of the Nri: My ancestors believe the Nri to be immigrants. We have an unmistakable view of them as being “other”—i.e. “foreign/non-Igbo”. This isn’t contestable among my folk, but is not at all negative because in Amichi, my maternal hometown, the Nri are invited to “cleanse” the land, most likely from nearby Oraeri although there is also an Nri community within Amichi itself, called “Umu-nri Ebenasa Amichi” and located right on the borders between Amichi, Osumenyi and my hometown of Utuh-Mbadike. Amichi has its centrally located Eke market, but the Umu-nri Ebenasa has its own small Nkwo market—and there’s a palpable element of isolation to that Nkwo market (full name: Nkwo-Agu Umu-nri Ebenasa Amichi).

The story is much deeper than that, but I know for a fact, as a man who grew up next to his ancestors, that the Nri are secondary settlers wherever they are found in Igbo-land. Amichi is an Okotu town related to Osumenyi, Ogbodi, the Adazis, etc. and I am a “nwadiana” there, hence I am aware that my mother’s people, as the true owners of the land, are not excited to intermarry with folks of Umu-nri Ebenasa of the same Amichi.

There’s consensus across the entire southern Anambra—from Nnewi through Aguata and ending in Orumba—that the Nri were “foreign-turned-Igbo”. I am therefore surprised to discover here proof of what seems a serious attempt to elevate the Nri at the expense of their own hosts. And when a debater linked to Nri says here that “Igbo and Igala are related” I hope he or she is aware that 1) it isn’t a flattering declaration to any Igbo person who is clear about his aboriginal identity; and 2) the right statement would be that “the Nri and Igala are related/cousins”.

To the Igbo of the interior, the Igala is as foreign as the Bini. The Idoma is in fact closer. And as you can imagine, we are just as clear as to the origin of the Onitsha folks and of most of their neighbouring towns. Ancestors, modest and tolerant, may not speak frequently of these heavy matters to the young, until a need arises—for example on the question of marrying into a certain clan; that is when they sit you down and tell you who is who in your State, local government, and town.

I will just end by pointing out that if wealth accumulation and modesty—the two hallmarks of the true Igbo entity—are held up as the ultimate standard for counting or discounting one as “purely aboriginal Igbo”, then the Nri and most of their northern Anambra hosts are clearly immigrants from a different ethnicity/nation. The two wealth belts of the Igbo—1) from Anaocha/Idemmili down to Nnewi and ending right around Orlu; 2) the Bende area of Abia State—clearly leave out much of the Nri and their northern Anambra hosts. While they evidently are among the noisiest and the least modest of Igbo folks.

There is no doubt that the propagators of Nri flag-waving are driven by their own painful and in fact understandable need for a permanent resolution to their dilemma of “an Igala origin vs. Igbo identity”. For, the Igbo who are certain of their aboriginal status are usually the most modest and confident of us.

Mind you: my ancestors of Nnewi area do not detest the Nri one bit. But they see them for who they are: migrants from Igala-land who are now fully integrated into the Igbo culture. And we of southern Anambra aren’t alone in making this distinction; I recently spent a few days among the clan of the Eziowelle, Abba, Nimo and Abagana (Njikoka and Idemmili North) and these folks strongly distance themselves from their neighbouring Nri, implying rather diplomatically that “the Nri are from somewhere else”.

Globally, a culture’s purest people are found in the geographical center. As such, one who cares of the purest Igbo kind—least tainted by an outside influence—should look, for example, at an eastern Orsu person. It gets no purer than that, and there are also other such examples.

And lastly: Dear Abagworo/Abagoro, you are in the right and have my full backing, bro! Keep making that noble case. It takes a dangerous degree of bias to look at the attire of the traditional rulers of Nri and their northern Anambra host communities, and not realise by instinct that they are akin to those used by the non-Igbo cultures across the waters or, more importantly, to fail to notice the blatantly immodest and un-Igbo loudness of those regalia.

UtuhMbadike1:




I am greatly surprised by the content of this discussion. It’s proof of how drastically the beliefs of the Internet world could differ from the realities of the true world.

I am Nnewi South and here’s our general view of the Nri: My ancestors believe the Nri to be immigrants. We have an unmistakable view of them as being “other”—i.e. “foreign/non-Igbo”. This isn’t contestable among my folk, but is not at all negative because in Amichi, my maternal hometown, the Nri are invited to “cleanse” the land, most likely from nearby Oraeri although there is also an Nri community within Amichi itself, called “Umu-nri Ebenasa Amichi” and located right on the borders between Amichi, Osumenyi and my hometown of Utuh-Mbadike. Amichi has its centrally located Eke market, but the Umu-nri Ebenasa has its own small Nkwo market—and there’s a palpable element of isolation to that Nkwo market (full name: Nkwo-Agu Umu-nri Ebenasa Amichi).

The story is much deeper than that, but I know for a fact, as a man who grew up next to his ancestors, that the Nri are secondary settlers wherever they are found in Igbo-land. Amichi is an Okotu town related to Osumenyi, Ogbodi, the Adazis, etc. and I am a “nwadiana” there, hence I am aware that my mother’s people, as the true owners of the land, are not excited to intermarry with folks of Umu-nri Ebenasa of the same Amichi.

There’s consensus across the entire southern Anambra—from Nnewi through Aguata and ending in Orumba—that the Nri were “foreign-turned-Igbo”. I am therefore surprised to discover here proof of what seems a serious attempt to elevate the Nri at the expense of their own hosts. And when a debater linked to Nri says here that “Igbo and Igala are related” I hope he or she is aware that 1) it isn’t a flattering declaration to any Igbo person who is clear about his aboriginal identity; and 2) the right statement would be that “the Nri and Igala are related/cousins”.

To the Igbo of the interior, the Igala is as foreign as the Bini. The Idoma is in fact closer. And as you can imagine, we are just as clear as to the origin of the Onitsha folks and of most of their neighbouring towns. Ancestors, modest and tolerant, may not speak frequently of these heavy matters to the young, until a need arises—for example on the question of marrying into a certain clan; that is when they sit you down and tell you who is who in your State, local government, and town.

I will just end by pointing out that if wealth accumulation and modesty—the two hallmarks of the true Igbo entity—are held up as the ultimate standard for counting or discounting one as “purely aboriginal Igbo”, then the Nri and most of their northern Anambra hosts are clearly immigrants from a different ethnicity/nation. The two wealth belts of the Igbo—1) from Anaocha/Idemmili down to Nnewi and ending right around Orlu; 2) the Bende area of Abia State—clearly leave out much of the Nri and their northern Anambra hosts. While they evidently are among the noisiest and the least modest of Igbo folks.

There is no doubt that the propagators of Nri flag-waving are driven by their own painful and in fact understandable need for a permanent resolution to their dilemma of “an Igala origin vs. Igbo identity”. For, the Igbo who are certain of their aboriginal status are usually the most modest and confident of us.

Mind you: my ancestors of Nnewi area do not detest the Nri one bit. But they see them for who they are: migrants from Igala-land who are now fully integrated into the Igbo culture. And we of southern Anambra aren’t alone in making this distinction; I recently spent a few days among the clan of the Eziowelle, Abba, Nimo and Abagana (Njikoka and Idemmili North) and these folks strongly distance themselves from their neighbouring Nri, implying rather diplomatically that “the Nri are from somewhere else”.

Globally, a culture’s purest people are found in the geographical center. As such, one who cares of the purest Igbo kind—least tainted by an outside influence—should look, for example, at an eastern Orsu person. It gets no purer than that, and there are also other such examples.

And lastly: Dear Abagworo/Abagoro, you are in the right and have my full backing, bro! Keep making that noble case. It takes a dangerous degree of bias to look at the attire of the traditional rulers of Nri and their northern Anambra host communities, and not realise by instinct that they are akin to those used by the non-Igbo cultures across the waters or, more importantly, to fail to notice the blatantly immodest and un-Igbo loudness of those regalia.

You are very ignorant. You should shut your mouth and let informed people speak. Nnewi people are not famous for their culture or great history. Shrewd traders, yes. Wealth, yes. But not history nor culture! Go to the backyard and play with the maidens. Atụlụ mụrụ ebune gba aka nwa.

But hear this, fear will not let your church loving Igwe Ọrizu break kolanut before the Eze Nri. And you don't know anything about Abagworo.

NRIPRIEST:


You are very ignorant. You should shut your mouth and let informed people speak. Nnewi people are not famous for their culture or great history. Shrewd traders, yes. Wealth, yes. But not history nor culture! Go to the backyard and play with the maidens. Atụlụ mụrụ ebune gba aka nwa.

But hear this, fear will not let your church loving Igwe Ọrizu break kolanut before the Eze Nri. And you don't know anything about Abagworo.

I like your passion, not least because it proves my point: the un-Igbo loudness of your immigrant people. I am rather busy and may not say much this minute, except to reiterate that the Igbo are indigenous to the south; every true/aboriginal Igbo traces their origin to the south: my father’s is there, as is my mother’s. Nothing, and I repeat nothing, links us to the peoples across the rivers—other than, of course, the later arrival of your people from Igala-land.

Put differently: a true aboriginal Igbo may trace their paternal/maternal origin from one town to the other, but there’s always a final spot (an original homeland) lying right there in the interior/central region encompassing the southern half of Anambra and the northern half of Imo—where you find the ancient Orsu, Isu, and Orlu in general. We can’t say the same of the Nri, for any such investigation into your folks leads, unmistakably, to the land across the rivers—Igala specifically.

I find it reassuring that you do not deny your relationship with the Igala, and with the other Igbo folks of Delta State. That alone, in my view, resolves the question of where your origin lies. You obviously were under the illusion that the aboriginal Igbo of the interior share the reality of your Igala kinship. Unfortunately a true Orsu or Isu would have “tufiakwa” to spit at the suggestion of his non-existent bond with the Igala. This is not even debatable. Exempli gratia: go to Azia or Orsumoghu, both Orsu towns, and suggest that they may be related to the Igala, see how they react, and come back and share with us.

Mind you: the foremost Igbo cultural writer—Olaudah Equiano—is an Orsu. Have that as food for thought, and then enjoy the following Wikipedia text:

“Amaigbo is a large town in Imo State, Nigeria. It is the headquarters of Nwangele Local Government Area. Amaigbo is regarded by many historians as the cradle of Igbo civilization. There exists the speculation of settlement from antiquity among the Orlu and Isu group. Within this zone, Amaigbo stands out with complex sophistication that ushers valid insight into Igbo settlements of old as well as the evolution of the cultural, linguistic, behavioral and psychological patterns that give the Igbo a distinct outlook. Some historians noted that with population explosion, people from this region spread rapidly and founded other parts of Igboland. The axis in question constitutes the upper half of the ‘Southern Igbo’ involving the Isu, Orsu, Orlu and Ihiala group. There have been postulations of different origins of the Igbo; however, serious studies based on testable facts clarify that the Igbo have lived in their country for tens of millennia. The archeological finds at Ugwuele Okigwe make an insightful proof of human activities in the theatre of Igbo civilization more than two hundred and fifty thousand years ago. Evidence of man-made tools like axe, pottery and carved stones dug up at the present day Enugu and Ebonyi states establish the credibility of the habitation of Igbo for a very long time. In other words, traditions of Igbo origin favour Igbo genesis in Igboland. According to Professor Oriji as well as Forde and Jones, the Isu group of the Igbo nation would appear to be the largest in population and seem to occupy a contiguous stretch of land from the center of Igboland expanding to all directions. This implies that the initial Igbo cultural and structural ideas likely evolved from the Isu. Their spread has helped to harmonize the features of the Igbo Cultural Area. In the Orlu section of Isu that claim autochthony for instance, a primogenitor was recollected of the name Igbo Ngidi, who was spiritually and scientifically advanced. He founded Ama Igbo [The abode of the Igbo]. From Ama Igbo in Orlu, he instituted various blacksmithing centers, agricultural practices, commerce and religious oracles. He further established his ideas at a place he called Igbo Ukwu [Igbo the Great] in praise of his success. It was from these places of initial causes (Ama Igbo and Igbo Ukwu) that the Igbo multiplied and occupied the present-day Igboland. It is recollected that Igbo people called themselves Umu Igbo Ngidi [Children of Igbo Ngidi], which was shortened to Umu Igbo. Today, Igbo means the people, the language and the land. Etymologically, the word ‘Igbo’ connotes ‘human community’.”

My concluding note:

Your potential argument that ‘Igbo-Ukwu’ was until recently called ‘Igbo-Nkwo’ would do nothing to nullify the strength of the above argument. Globally, a culture’s purest/original people are more likely to exist in the center/interior than on the periphery. We both are aware of the Nri perching right on the fringes of Igbo-land, indicating their later attachment. I believe you have a brain and can use it. Just as your ancestors, if they mean well, won’t deny your Igala origin, mine always acknowledge the preeminent position of the Isu/Orsu/Orlu on the question of Igbo origin and identity.

You are hearing this from a southern Anambra man because I do not believe in the superficial State lines. Those in the know are very much aware that Anambra represents a meeting point—of two ethnicities: 1) the aboriginal Igbo spreading upwards from their ancient southern abode, and 2) non-Igbo folks migrating downwards from their own original lands across the rivers. / Group 1 are mine; Group 2 are yours. But why should this worry you so much, when we have generously accepted and integrated you into the Igbo culture, and we are not against your open declaration of your Igala connection?

Behind this whole debate is what my people call the “omuta ogbakaria” or the “okwachuru onye nwe ozu” mentality. So we have the confident aborigines keeping it modest and tolerant, while the immigrants run around waving The Flag that never demanded the sacrifice of jingoism.

NRIPRIEST:


You are very ignorant. You should shut your mouth and let informed people speak. Nnewi people are not famous for their culture or great history. Shrewd traders, yes. Wealth, yes. But not history nor culture! Go to the backyard and play with the maidens. Atụlụ mụrụ ebune gba aka nwa.

But hear this, fear will not let your church loving Igwe Ọrizu break kolanut before the Eze Nri. And you don't know anything about Abagworo.

To add:

1) The Nri, for example, isn’t among Igbo’s five largest tribes or groups. 2) Every of your neighbouring groups views you as the “other”. 3) You are often assigned a town’s least desirable land. 4) You are located right on the periphery of Igbo-land. 5) Your spoken Igbo is as shallow as those by other periphery peoples, and if you produced cultural musicians they wouldn’t be, lyrically, half as deep as Oliver de Coque, Dr Sir Warrior, or Peacocks. 6) Your ancestors and elders do not deny your Igala origin.

Yet we should accept your bogus claim of being the originator of our culture and its custodian?

Agu hapu okwu. Anyi ma onye bu onye.

We can debate your potentially positive contribution to the Igbo cultural project since your arrival; we can even laud your seamless integration into the Igbo culture and our exemplary co-existence as one ever since. But what we won’t debate is your Igala origin because there’s nothing there to debate.

Ife agba n’aka, ejighi ugegbe ene ya.

A few things to keep in mind: 1) The archaeological discovery at Igbo-Ukwu is much older than your arrival from Igala-land, and therefore has nothing to do with Nri. 2) The Hebraic similarities shared by the Igbo and Jewish cultures evidently have nothing to do with Nri because we already had a culture before your arrival. 3) There will always be disagreements on the content and the extent of the Igbo culture at the time of your arrival from Igala-land, and what major contribution, if any at all, the Nri made to the culture they met.

I am absolutely pro- one united Igbo nation—regardless of State or clan origin. But that meekness and appreciation for the big picture must not come at the expense of tolerating usurpers from Nri. Take the great Chinua Achebe: it can be argued that his “Achebe” last name isn’t particularly Igbo, or that it may be more Onitsha than Igbo. But guess what? Such an attempt would amount to no less than a cultural crime because the man made his Igbo self and culture proud, unwaveringly until the very end. He wasn’t a traitor—the equivalent of Nri usurpers.

NRIPRIEST:


You are very ignorant. You should shut your mouth and let informed people speak. Nnewi people are not famous for their culture or great history. Shrewd traders, yes. Wealth, yes. But not history nor culture! Go to the backyard and play with the maidens. Atụlụ mụrụ ebune gba aka nwa.

But hear this, fear will not let your church loving Igwe Ọrizu break kolanut before the Eze Nri. And you don't know anything about Abagworo.

Please ignore the guy. No need for unnecessary further arguments with him. Nri does not claim origins from Igala. Nothing about its past ezes point to an Igala name. Nri tradition/folklore does not mention any sojourn from Igaland. Nri people in the past were well travelled people, often travelling to far distant towns in Igboland. Thus, it is normal these people viewed them as 'foreigners' especially at a time when the collective Igbo consciousness did not exist and people paid allegiance to their villages instead. Nri people often played religious or priestly roles in ancient Igboland, Igala land, Idoma land and bini land and they often travelled very far to perform these roles, many settling in their new towns when they were unable to return. This explains why the 4 market days of eke, oye, afor and nkwo of Nri origin are used not only by Igbos, but Igalas, Idoma, Binis etc. Many of the markers or identifiers of proto-Igbo culture today are of Nri origin.

bigfrancis21:


Please ignore the guy. No need for unnecessary further arguments with him. Nri does not claim origins from Igala. Nothing about its past ezes point to an Igala name. Nri tradition/folklore does not mention any sojourn from Igaland. Nri people in the past were well travelled people, often travelling to far distant towns in Igboland. Thus, it is normal these people viewed them as 'foreigners' especially at a time when the collective Igbo consciousness did not exist and people paid allegiance to their villages instead. Nri people often played religious or priestly roles in ancient Igboland, Igala land, Idoma land and bini land and they often travelled very far to perform these roles, many settling in their new towns when they were unable to return. This explains why the 4 market days of eke, oye, afor and nkwo of Nri origin are used not only by Igbos, but Igalas, Idoma, Binis etc. Many of the markers or identifiers of proto-Igbo culture today are of Nri origin.

There’re the Aro; a great history AND a modest people. They could even, if they please, submit a credible case of being descendants of the biblical Arodi.

(Incidentally, I read a quality article many years ago which said that Ojoto in Idemmili is either partly or fully Aro. It then dawned on me that Africa’s greatest poet, Christopher Okigbo, is from Ojoto. Note his name—Okigbo—being typically Aro. But as the fervent Nri noise swept through much of northern Anambra in recent times, a new history was launched of how Ojoto is no longer Aro but Nri. The vendors of this Nri version admit that their town was founded by two brothers named Ojo and Oto, yet unbeknownst to them, I guess, is that 1. Ojo as an original name isn’t Nri but Abia—think Ojo Mmaduekwe. 2. Ohafia/Orofia villages are scattered across Njikoka, Dunukofia, Oyi and Idemmili. 3. Under Obosi history we find the following: “Oral history shows that Obosi people originated from Arochukwu via Ojoto. Some ancient people of Arochukwu migrated into Oze, Ora-Eshi, and Nri, then founded Ojoto, Ihiala, and Alor. Some Ojoto people that left then founded Obosi, Nnewi-Umudim, Ibuzo and Umuru-Ukpo. The founder of Obosi was a hunter named Adike from Ojoto.”)

Anyway, towns and villages linked to the Aro are scattered across Anambra, Abia and Imo, and these folks have so much to be proud of—and they usually are, but always through the handsome agent of modesty. Always a successful people in culture, education and monetary wealth. I have a lot of respect for the peoples originally from that region: Bende through Ohafia down to Arochukwu. Great-great peoples. They rarely blow their own trumpet, or attempt claiming what they aren’t. The Aro of Arochukwu even admit to being somewhat mixed with the non-Igbo ethnicities across the borders. But this honesty and modesty only serves to make them even more attractive and easy to embrace. You exuberant Nri folks should take a leaf from the Aro book.

MansaPiye:


Will you shut up! Igbos will never give respect and credit where it is due just so they can put their own village or clan above others. Please let another Eze or Igwe go and break kola nut when it is presented to Igbos in the presence of Eze Nri. Aro stool is only 500 years! Our people recognize Okpala/okpara and there's no way you can leave a 1000 year old stool and pass the kola to anyone else, are you stupid?! Are you following Omenani or omenaenu?
Don't you know the reason the Oba of Benin sent his son to Isele Ukwu?! Read isselu ukwu history and you'll know it was an attempt to stop Nri influence at his doorstep! The Igbos in western Igboland came from Isu and Nri.
Hear someone who was actually there at the time! The Nri were interested in keeping the peace which is why they weren't in the business of abusing people. Ana Nri is a holy land that all ancient Igbos knew about which is why they ran to Nri for safety during the slave trade.
Let's respect ourselves and stop embrassing ourselves all the time while other groups are uniting.
The Aros were abusing their power as priests and were terrorising people! The Nri kingdom banned that evil slave trade that Aro people were engaged in.

“Nri or Nshi” - evidently the same place, but a different pronunciation of it is a town, which is situated about forty miles to the east, i.e. behind Onitsha… the inhabitants of this particular town are known as “king makers”, in other words, they possess the sole prerogative of conferring the title of royalty in all the Ibo country… they also, it appears, enjoy the privilege of walking untouched and unharmed through any portion of the same… so the Nri family, for the same scared reason, are not only the progenitor but also the priests of the whole Ibo race, as such, high priest, taking precedence over all other fraternities, priestly, social and political.” - The lower Niger and It’s tribes by Major A. G. Leonard (1890 -1906), a Cambridge scholar of comparative religion.
Published in 1906 after spending 10 years studying Igbo land.

This is very true. The Aros were well into slavery and the Nri were peacemakers. Nri kingdom started as early as the 900s. Arochukwu rose to influence in the 1600s/1700s.

UtuhMbadike1:




I am greatly surprised by the content of this discussion. It’s proof of how drastically the beliefs of the Internet world could differ from the realities of the true world.

I am Nnewi South and here’s our general view of the Nri: My ancestors believe the Nri to be immigrants. We have an unmistakable view of them as being “other”—i.e. “foreign/non-Igbo”. This isn’t contestable among my folk, but is not at all negative because in Amichi, my maternal hometown, the Nri are invited to “cleanse” the land, most likely from nearby Oraeri although there is also an Nri community within Amichi itself, called “Umu-nri Ebenasa Amichi” and located right on the borders between Amichi, Osumenyi and my hometown of Utuh-Mbadike. Amichi has its centrally located Eke market, but the Umu-nri Ebenasa has its own small Nkwo market—and there’s a palpable element of isolation to that Nkwo market (full name: Nkwo-Agu Umu-nri Ebenasa Amichi).

The story is much deeper than that, but I know for a fact, as a man who grew up next to his ancestors, that the Nri are secondary settlers wherever they are found in Igbo-land. Amichi is an Okotu town related to Osumenyi, Ogbodi, the Adazis, etc. and I am a “nwadiana” there, hence I am aware that my mother’s people, as the true owners of the land, are not excited to intermarry with folks of Umu-nri Ebenasa of the same Amichi.

There’s consensus across the entire southern Anambra—from Nnewi through Aguata and ending in Orumba—that the Nri were “foreign-turned-Igbo”. I am therefore surprised to discover here proof of what seems a serious attempt to elevate the Nri at the expense of their own hosts. And when a debater linked to Nri says here that “Igbo and Igala are related” I hope he or she is aware that 1) it isn’t a flattering declaration to any Igbo person who is clear about his aboriginal identity; and 2) the right statement would be that “the Nri and Igala are related/cousins”.

To the Igbo of the interior, the Igala is as foreign as the Bini. The Idoma is in fact closer. And as you can imagine, we are just as clear as to the origin of the Onitsha folks and of most of their neighbouring towns. Ancestors, modest and tolerant, may not speak frequently of these heavy matters to the young, until a need arises—for example on the question of marrying into a certain clan; that is when they sit you down and tell you who is who in your State, local government, and town.

I will just end by pointing out that if wealth accumulation and modesty—the two hallmarks of the true Igbo entity—are held up as the ultimate standard for counting or discounting one as “purely aboriginal Igbo”, then the Nri and most of their northern Anambra hosts are clearly immigrants from a different ethnicity/nation. The two wealth belts of the Igbo—1) from Anaocha/Idemmili down to Nnewi and ending right around Orlu; 2) the Bende area of Abia State—clearly leave out much of the Nri and their northern Anambra hosts. While they evidently are among the noisiest and the least modest of Igbo folks.

There is no doubt that the propagators of Nri flag-waving are driven by their own painful and in fact understandable need for a permanent resolution to their dilemma of “an Igala origin vs. Igbo identity”. For, the Igbo who are certain of their aboriginal status are usually the most modest and confident of us.

Mind you: my ancestors of Nnewi area do not detest the Nri one bit. But they see them for who they are: migrants from Igala-land who are now fully integrated into the Igbo culture. And we of southern Anambra aren’t alone in making this distinction; I recently spent a few days among the clan of the Eziowelle, Abba, Nimo and Abagana (Njikoka and Idemmili North) and these folks strongly distance themselves from their neighbouring Nri, implying rather diplomatically that “the Nri are from somewhere else”.

Globally, a culture’s purest people are found in the geographical center. As such, one who cares of the purest Igbo kind—least tainted by an outside influence—should look, for example, at an eastern Orsu person. It gets no purer than that, and there are also other such examples.

And lastly: Dear Abagworo/Abagoro, you are in the right and have my full backing, bro! Keep making that noble case. It takes a dangerous degree of bias to look at the attire of the traditional rulers of Nri and their northern Anambra host communities, and not realise by instinct that they are akin to those used by the non-Igbo cultures across the waters or, more importantly, to fail to notice the blatantly immodest and un-Igbo loudness of those regalia.

Strange things happen on naira land.
When did Orsu start speaking for Nnewi?.
Who gave you,a supposed 'orsu' man,leave to speak for Anaedo and its dependencies, especially on a subject you know zilch about?.
I'm tempted to think this is Abagworo,up to his usual mischief again.
A new moniker,created on the 26th November, solely for sowing seeds of discord on this thread.
Guy,desist

pokur:

Strange things happen on naira land.
When did Orsu start speaking for Nnewi?.
Who gave you,a supposed 'orsu' man,leave to speak for Anaedo and its dependencies, especially on a subject you know zilch about?.
I'm tempted to think this is Abagworo,up to his usual mischief again.
A new moniker,created on the 26th November, solely for sowing seeds of discord on this thread.
Guy,desist

Apparently one has to be Orsu/Isu/Orlu in order to admit the preeminent/aboriginal position of the said groups with regard to the all-important question of Igbo origin? That’s exactly why we may never achieve consensus on the matter—emotions always trumping fact and logic. Here it is: I am not Orsu. I was born in Ozubulu (Ekwusigo) to Utuh father and Amichi mother (both Nnewi South). Neither Utuh-Mbadike nor Ichi-Eke/Amichi-Eke is Orsu. And both towns share local boundaries with Otolo. And finally, I am not Abagworo.

As the saying goes: Nwaeze ada efu na mba, so for what it’s worth, let me introduce myself fully:

1) Ozubulu contains a major clan originally from Utuh-Mbadike. 2) Anaedo, like ninety percent of Igbo communities, is a superficial construct holding together clans of different origins. As another example: In Utuh my paternal grandmother’s clan is originally from Agulu. 3) The Catholic Bishop of Nnewi Diocese is Hillary Odili Okeke, a blood relative from Utuh-Mbadike. Matter of fact I am from a warrior clan; you may inquire from your own elders about the folks of Utuh-Mbadike. Historically Utuh is spiritually Aro-centric, produced mercenaries, while by contrast my mother’s Amichi people favoured Nri spiritually. 4) Nnewi as used in my writing is metropolitan and not limited to Nkwo. And I am thoroughly conversant with the evolutionary history of not only towns of Nnewi region, but the larger southern Anambra. I have sojourned in Ozubulu, Utuh, Otolo, Igbo-Ukwu, Amichi, Osumenyi, and Ikenga. That’s in southern Anambra alone. So yes, anyone who feels like it could bring it. I don’t seem unprepared, obviously.

pokur:

Strange things happen on naira land.
When did Orsu start speaking for Nnewi?.
Who gave you,a supposed 'orsu' man,leave to speak for Anaedo and its dependencies, especially on a subject you know zilch about?.
I'm tempted to think this is Abagworo,up to his usual mischief again.
A new moniker,created on the 26th November, solely for sowing seeds of discord on this thread.
Guy,desist

pokur:

Strange things happen on naira land.
When did Orsu start speaking for Nnewi?.
Who gave you,a supposed 'orsu' man,leave to speak for Anaedo and its dependencies, especially on a subject you know zilch about?.
I'm tempted to think this is Abagworo,up to his usual mischief again.
A new moniker,created on the 26th November, solely for sowing seeds of discord on this thread.
Guy,desist

Apparently one has to be Orsu/Isu/Orlu in order to admit the preeminent/aboriginal position of the said groups with regard to the all-important question of Igbo origin? That’s exactly why we may never achieve consensus on the matter—emotions always trumping fact and logic. Here it is: I am not Orsu. I was born in Ozubulu (Ekwusigo) to Utuh father and Amichi mother (both Nnewi South). Neither Utuh-Mbadike nor Ichi-Eke/Amichi-Eke is Orsu. And both towns share local boundaries with Otolo. And finally, I am not Abagworo.

As the saying goes: Nwaeze ada efu na mba, so for what it’s worth, let me introduce myself fully:

1) Ozubulu contains a major clan originally from Utuh-Mbadike. 2) Anaedo, like ninety percent of Igbo communities, is a superficial construct holding together clans of different origins. As another example: In Utuh my paternal grandmother’s clan is originally from Agulu. 3) The Catholic Bishop of Nnewi Diocese is Hillary Odili Okeke, a blood relative from Utuh-Mbadike. Matter of fact I am from a warrior clan; you may inquire from your own elders about the folks of Utuh-Mbadike. Historically Utuh is spiritually Aro-centric, produced mercenaries, while by contrast my mother’s Amichi people favoured Nri spiritually. 4) Nnewi as used in my writing is metropolitan and not limited to Nkwo. And I am thoroughly conversant with the evolutionary history of not only towns of Nnewi region, but the larger southern Anambra. I have sojourned in Ozubulu, Utuh, Otolo, Igbo-Ukwu, Amichi, Osumenyi, and Ikenga. That’s in southern Anambra alone. So yes, anyone who feels like it could bring it. I don’t seem unprepared, obviously.

Pokur please there's no need engaging this guy in a worthless back and forth. Notice that nobody on this thread gave him the attention he needs. Simply overlook his post and move on with your life.

Please don't respond to his gibberish.

bigfrancis21:
Pokur please there's no need engaging this guy in a worthless back and forth. Notice that nobody on this thread gave him the attention he needs. Simply overlook his post and move on with your life.

Please don't respond to his gibberish.

Lol ... Dude I don’t speak your unlearned language. I am an intellectual, and only fellow intellectuals can engage me. You made me insult you now, but not even the Pope can deal with unexposed Third World residents without losing his cool. Which, of course, isn’t to say that there aren’t many exposed and civilised people coming from Nigeria or living in Nigeria. There are some of them; they are a minority, and you surely aren’t one of them.

bigfrancis21:
Pokur please there's no need engaging this guy in a worthless back and forth. Notice that nobody on this thread gave him the attention he needs. Simply overlook his post and move on with your life.

Please don't respond to his gibberish.

I noticed that already.
Somebody who confuses Anaedo with its dependent towns of old and a superficial construct,thinks Otolo is a town and Nkwo is all there is to Nnewi.

pokur:

I noticed that already.
Somebody who confuses Anaedo with its dependent towns of old and a superficial construct,thinks Otolo is a town and Nkwo is all there is to Nnewi.

It’s a shame you failed to notice that “Nkwo”, a market, was used purely symbolically in my text. It’s even a bigger shame that you assume I could be so ignorant as to not know that Otolo is a quarter and not an independent town. Dude I am not an efulefu—despite my English language proficiency. You know that Nkwo Triangle whereat the huge mall is currently being erected? It was my daily playground 20 – 15 years ago, when it was yet a sandy, dirty open place, littered with make-shift shops and buses ferrying passengers to Aba and other cities. I was at that Triangle as recently as two months ago, and will be there again December third week; I have to monitor the progress of the work, because I aim to purchase/rent a shop or an office there. I said that I lived in Otolo merely to be exact. You can’t be that silly as to not get my point, I trust.

Anyway, despite signs that it won’t evolve beyond a “my word against your word” scenerio, here goes:

Our ancestors who share boundaries with Otolo taught us that Anaedo has within it more varying tribes than could be counted in one hand’s fingers. Even Otolo, Anaedo’s leading clan/quarter, isn’t a homogeneous group and this is no secret. I won’t call names because you know this to be true as an Anaedo person.

Instead I will give here three mentions with which you may not agree—but that wouldn’t matter:

1.
Anaedo is linked to Ndoni/Ukwuani/Ndokwa (around the Aboh area) via a certain figure known as Mmaku and without whom the Nnewi monarch may not exist today. It is believed that Anaedo’s use of “Obi” is directly connected to this forebear. This isn’t debatable as it’s the widely accepted version of Anaedo history.

But what you are now left to grapple with is the truism that there were three waves of migration which formed the population of the Ukwuani people. The first wave originated from the Benin Kingdom, and in Ukwuani today they are called Umu-akashiada, Ebedei, and Akarai. Then there were the second set, arriving Ukwuani from Nri, and they include Umu-obarauchi, Ndoni, Onya, and Adawai. And then the final wave, involving Benin conquerors and they include the Aboh, Amai, Umukwata, and Ogbe-ani in Utagba-uno clan. The Igala are also present among the Ukwuani. How, now, can you factually and successfully debate the genealogy/ethnicity of Nnewi’s foremost forebear—in the person of Mmaku? He hails from an ethnically diverse place, and could be anything from full Igbo to full Edo/Bini, to multi-ethnic, etc. We may never know. Aboh, his place of origin, is primarily inhabited by the Ukwuani group of Bini/Edo origin. Now put that in your back pocket, and let’s fill up the two remaining front ones.

2.
There exists in Anaedo the Orsu and the Isu—the truly aboriginal Igbo—and let me explain how: Anaedo, as mentioned, was formed by folks arriving from varying directions and origins. There are even those from Agbaja in Abatete—and although the Abatete peoples agree that their town was founded by Okolie Otie, the man’s origin remains disputed. So you will perhaps also have to figure that out: the true origin of Okolie Otie, which to me sounds Aro.

What I am more interested in, is proving to you the existence of both the aboriginal Orsu and Isu in Anaedo—both genealogically and culturally. True intellectuals see beyond the superficial State lines. They get atop their emotions and look facts/markers in the eye. They subdue their Anambra nationalism in search of the truth, because State lines are recent and only skin-deep. The Orsu presence in Anaedo is represented by the “Awor-Oraifite people”. All “Awors”—Awor-Oraifite, Awor-Omamma, Awor-Ezinifite—are unmistakably linked to their ancient Orsu homeland of the aboriginal Igbo—i.e. the Awor-Idemili area of Imo-Anambra border.

With the Orsu presence explained, here’s Anaedo’s Isu connection: the Isu are arguably the largest Igbo tribe and, along with the Orsu and the Orlu peoples, forms the preeminent aboriginal Igbo group.

Sometime in the past, the following remark was shared here on Nairaland, by an Anaedo indigene who, in my unbiased view, has been consistently intellectual with his submissions:

“The Isu founder of Igbouzo was called Umejei, which is interesting, because I noticed in John Alutu’s book that a lot of people in Nnewi’s early history had the prefix ‘Ume’ in their names. I’m convinced it was some of the aboriginal Isu elements in Uruagu who fled during the Isu dispersal that crossed the Niger and founded Igbouzo. I’m not sure mainstream historians have fully recognized this yet, because they keep writing that Umejei came from the Isu north of Awka (Isu-Anaocha).” Link: https://www.nairaland.com/1829096/brief-history-nnewi/4

Now, whether Anaedo’s “Isu” is “indigenous” to Anaedo or migrated from Isu-Anaocha or from some other Isu base, to my Utuh-Mbadike ancestors and elders there’s only one Isu tribe in Igbo-land, and they are found predominantly in Anambra, Imo, and Abia States. As mentioned, they are the largest of all aboriginal Igbo tribes, and are related to the Orsu and Orlu peoples. All three tribes (Orsu/Isu/Orlu) have their ancient/original homeland in the same Orlu axis of Imo State.

3.
To conclude:

Recall that “Ume” prefix mention by our Anaedo intellectual? Keep it in mind, and then read the following Wikipedia excerpt:

“Azia [town in Ihiala LGA] was named after the founder and the father of the inhabitants of the town, Azia Alamatugiugele who according to oral history lived about 1,400 years ago (470-585 A.D). Azia, Orsumoghu, Mbosi and Isseke were the sons of Osunano by his first wife who is the owner of the portion of land that cuts across Azia and Orsumoghu known as Ama-Lolo (Lolo’s farm land). Osunano in turn is a son of Igbonano. Before the coming of the white men, there was a region of the Igbo country called Igbonano. A conglomeration of clans, Igbonano was supposedly located in the area now occupied by some thirty autonomous communities from both Anambra and Imo states. These communities on the western axis of Anambra-Imo border area, till today still have many things in common e.g. similar names of idols ... a set of ozo title prefixes: Ezike, Dara, Duru, Dim, Ume, Ezeani, Ezeahia, Ezeloma and Okpara) etc.”

Lessons/cultural markers from the excerpt:

1) The “Ume” prefix in ancient Anaedo was a cultural feature shared by the Orsu (Azia is Orsu) and Orsu is related to Isu. But beyond the Orsu, the “Ume” prefix is equally commonly used in the entire Nnewi South LGA.
2) The Orsu also bear the prefix “Dim”, which we know is Ikemba Ojukwu’s choice affix (Dim Odumegwu Ojukwu). Another popular Dim in the region is “Dim Agwu-agwu of Ezinifite Nnewi South”.
3) The Nri claim that their Kingdom was founded 900AD, while the founder of the ancient Orsu town of Azia (Azia Alamatugiugele) is said to have lived before 600AD.

Finally:

When you realise that Anaedo, by some definitions, includes Ozubulu (or parts of Ozubulu), then you must equally take into account that parts of Ozubulu is inhabited by a clan originally from my own Utuh-Mbadike.

There you have it. Anaedo is large, and far from being a homogeneous land geneologically and culturally.

I probably won’t have more to share with you guys on this, since you aren't paying for my time.