Abagworo: I don't even think Isuama was recognized as an ethnic group or subgroup but a cultural zone.

My use of Isuama is just in reference to the works done by some Igbo scolars which attempt to connect southern Igbo communities with the Orlu/Nri-Oka axis, in favor of a unified (often meaning Nri-centered) theory of Igbo culture and origin.

ezeagu: Original post: I didn't read the whole thing because I have already read this theory. My conclusion is that the dates don't match up with events that the kingdom is associated with. If Eri were from the 1500s then it discredits the ancestry of places that are Igbo-speaking west of the Niger since much of those communities were at least populated by some Nri-cultured people well before that date. For example Ogwashi-Ukwu is a direct settlement of Nri or Nri-like people. "Ogwa Nshi Ukwu" literally translates as the 'Great hall of Nri (Nshi)'. The dates don't add up and this debates seems more like a political smear than research.

You beat me to this, the date is not adding up. Nri is much older than presented in that article.

Radoillo:

First of all, I never said we came from Igala or Adagbe. U probably didnt read what I wrote...which is OK. Its quite a long read.

Let me make it clearer. Awka WAS already an existing full-fledged town before Ichide and Nebuzo came to establish Umudioka and Agulu villages respectively. I can give u details of the Awka compounds they lived in and the Awka people who housed them before Awka decided to give them land to settle in and form their own villages, and granted them citizenship.

There are 33 villages in Awka. Umudioka has one; Agulu has 7. The remaining 25 villages are aboriginals and have no traditions of coming from anywhere. They descend from the three groups I mentioned earlier, Urueri, Amaenyiana and Okpo. And these 3 groups have no traditions whatsoever that they came from anywhere.

Villages in Awka, like Umuzocha (my village), Amudo and Amachalla were founded when the Okpo group split up. Villages like the Ezioka and Amikwo villages were founded when the Amaenyiana group split up. Urueri failed to grow in population due to certain disasters that befell them; so they remain a rather small group in Nkwelle village.

I don't know when I said anything about Igala. I only mentioned Igala in connection with Okpuno. Okpuno is not part of Awka town; why are u misreading me (if u read me at all)?

And if you had read me well, I did mention something about Nri travelling. I'm sorry I didn't emphasize it enough to ur pleasure. Sorry.

Of course, if you didn't know Awka people travelled widely, u probably shouldn't be engaging in conversations about Igbo history until u know more about Igbo history.

I'll say it loudly, "Umudioka are not Umunri". Period.

To cap up: 1) Awka is an ancient town. It's origins are unknown.
2) Later in about the 15th and 17th centuries Agbaja and Umudioka people came. Awka gave them land to settle.
3) Urueri has no connections with Umunri. Or traditions would have said so. But traditions insist Urueru is so ancient no one knows whence they came. Umunri isn't that ancient, 'cos we remember whence they came and on whose land they settled.

history revisionists! . Actually awka has some igala among them. But radoillo how did URU-ERI came to be if not from eri? . Radoillo can u explain the history of UMUERI village in awka?. Mind u,i am not from awka. But i grew up in awka. Don't follow abagworo to the bush. There are many evidiences suggesting the presence of eri/nri in awka. Starting from nze na ozo, urueri people ,umueri village etc.

Radoillo:

First of all, I never said we came from Igala or Adagbe. U probably didnt read what I wrote...which is OK. Its quite a long read.

Let me make it clearer. Awka WAS already an existing full-fledged town before Ichide and Nebuzo came to establish Umudioka and Agulu villages respectively. I can give u details of the Awka compounds they lived in and the Awka people who housed them before Awka decided to give them land to settle in and form their own villages, and granted them citizenship.

There are 33 villages in Awka. Umudioka has one; Agulu has 7. The remaining 25 villages are aboriginals and have no traditions of coming from anywhere. They descend from the three groups I mentioned earlier, Urueri, Amaenyiana and Okpo. And these 3 groups have no traditions whatsoever that they came from anywhere.

Villages in Awka, like Umuzocha (my village), Amudo and Amachalla were founded when the Okpo group split up. Villages like the Ezioka and Amikwo villages were founded when the Amaenyiana group split up. Urueri failed to grow in population due to certain disasters that befell them; so they remain a rather small group in Nkwelle village.

I don't know when I said anything about Igala. I only mentioned Igala in connection with Okpuno. Okpuno is not part of Awka town; why are u misreading me (if u read me at all)?

And if you had read me well, I did mention something about Nri travelling. I'm sorry I didn't emphasize it enough to ur pleasure. Sorry.

Of course, if you didn't know Awka people travelled widely, u probably shouldn't be engaging in conversations about Igbo history until u know more about Igbo history.

I'll say it loudly, "Umudioka are not Umunri". Period.

To cap up: 1) Awka is an ancient town. It's origins are unknown.
2) Later in about the 15th and 17th centuries Agbaja and Umudioka people came. Awka gave them land to settle.
3) Urueri has no connections with Umunri. Or traditions would have said so. But traditions insist Urueru is so ancient no one knows whence they came. Umunri isn't that ancient, 'cos we remember whence they came and on whose land they settled.

history revisionists! . Actually awka has some igala among them. But radoillo how did URU-ERI came to be if not from eri? . Radoillo can u explain the history of UMUERI village in awka?. Mind u,i am not from awka. But i grew up in awka. Don't follow abagworo to the bush. There are many evidiences suggesting the presence of eri/nri in awka. Starting from nze na ozo, urueri people ,umueri village etc.

We've been over that already, Antivirus.

pazienza:

You beat me to this, the date is not adding up. Nri is much older than presented in that article.

one thing u should know is that the europeans weren't in africa when all these events took place. We should make use of our brain here. The europeans recorded according to the oral tradition they were given(which must have been affected by human weakness) and again according to the art works they excavated(eri and his sons maybe must have existed long before they started doing the art works)

ChinenyeN: We've been over that already, Antivirus.

didn't get u

Well, chinenye i am not here to fight. I am tired of fighting. I just wanted to explain some things to help him. Out of the hundreds of history on the internet about eri and igbo origin. Abagworo was only able to see that only one. I tire for that guy.

Antivirus92: history revisionists! . Actually awka has some igala among them. But radoillo how did URU-ERI came to be if not from eri? . Radoillo can u explain the history of UMUERI village in awka?. Mind u,i am not from awka. But i grew up in awka. Don't follow abagworo to the bush. There are many evidiences suggesting the presence of eri/nri in awka. Starting from nze na ozo, urueri people ,umueri village etc.

*sigh* Antivirus is an Nri guy. That i know. Anyway, I think I have explained about Urueri so much my fingers hurt. I'll stop trying. And about Umueri, I explained that in the other thread when Nri Priest raised this whole Eri issue. I wont repeat it. What I don't understand is why people can't accept that the name could have occurred more than once independently among Igbo-speaking peoples. The history revisionists are the ones who see a name somewhere and without knowing the facts quickly assume it's the same one they are used to seeing.

Why would I say Nri didn't settle in Awka (if indeed they did), but acknowledge that Umudioka did?

Did Nri people needed to settle in Awka before we could adopt Ozo title? (assuming that we did adopt it from Nri)

Antivirus is no stranger in Awka. Please go and ask the elders there whether any Awka village came from Nri. Its annoying when people say things they have never looked into.

When u say Igalas settled in Awka I know u were talking about my village Umuzocha. Yes, we are called Ndi Igala by other Awka villages; the same way Umudioka are called Ndi Nkanu. This is not about origin, as any Awka elder will tell you. Its about the people we lived among and adopted some of their mannerisms. There are old men in Umuzocha who still speak fluent Igala because that was where they worked in their youth. The rest of Awka jocularly referred to them as Ndi Igala.

Find old men in Awka and ask them questions. Do not assume. I have deep respect for Nri, but don't claim Nri was what they were not, or settled where they did not.

Radoillo:

*sigh* Antivirus is an Nri guy. That i know. Anyway, I think I have explained about Urueri so much my fingers hurt. I'll stop trying. And about Umueri, I explained that in the other thread when Nri Priest raised this whole Eri issue. I wont repeat it. What I don't understand is why people can't accept that the name could have occurred more than once independently among Igbo-speaking peoples. The history revisionists are the ones who see a name somewhere and without knowing the facts quickly assume it's the same one they are used to seeing.

Why would I say Nri didn't settle in Awka (if indeed they did), but acknowledge that Umudioka did?

Did Nri people needed to settle in Awka before we could adopt Ozo title? (assuming that we did adopt it from Nri)

Antivirus is no stranger in Awka. Please go and ask the elders there whether any Awka village came from Nri. Its annoying when people say things they have never looked into.

When u say Igalas settled in Awka I know u were talking about my village Umuzocha. Yes, we are called Ndi Igala by other Awka villages; the same way Umudioka are called Ndi Nkanu. This is not about origin, as any Awka elder will tell you. Its about the people we lived among and adopted some of their mannerisms. There are old men in Umuzocha who still speak fluent Igala because that was where they worked in their youth. The rest of Awka jocularly referred to them as Ndi Igala.

Find old men in Awka and ask them questions. Do not assume. I have deep respect for Nri, but don't claim Nri was what they were not, or settled where they did not.

some things are just more than coincidence. I wouldn't want u to start explaining everything to me all over again. But telling me that urueri and umueri are mere coincidence is laughable and childish. Let me remind u, oral history has alot of flaws and missing links.

What is laughable and childlish is Nri people saying they founded communities they know very well they didn't.

My stand in igbo history is that we should find the missing links in our history and not destroying them. I am from oraukwu. I grew up only to be told by my elders that my town is majority of migrants from nri. And that my family is among them. Igbos speaking same language and same culture is more than coincidence. Igbo has existed thousands of years before the advent of white men. So there is no way the white men can give an accurate account of what has existed before them. Our oral tradition has an extent to which it will break. So relying on it is useless. Our fore fathers did not document or write any form of histories. So when a community which use to be igbos only expirience any form of invasion or influx of strangers. The oral history will be adjusted. So the histories we have today may just be watered ones which has metamorphosed over time.

Radoillo: What is laughable and childlish is Nri people saying they founded communities they know very well they didn't.

who are nri people? . Do u mean agukwu,enugwu ukwu,nise,oraeri,umuleri,ogwashi ukwu,asaba,the one ones in imo,enugu and abia or what. Understanding what nri/eri people means is what u should study first before jumping into history.

Radoillo: What is laughable and childlish is Nri people saying they founded communities they know very well they didn't.

I think this is the reasons Nri people are being attacked, many people may see them as a threat. In all honesty, have any of us heard of any case in world history where a ruling class of people fully assimilate in a society they've impacted so much in less that 500 years without a trace?

ezeagu:

I think this is the reasons Nri people are being attacked, many people may see them as a threat. In all honesty, have any of us heard of any case in world history where a ruling class of people fully assimilate in a society they've impacted so much in less that 500 years without a trace?

has any man from nri come to ur village and start claiming it?. Umueri na umunri are many in population. It's communities that come to agukwu or enugwu ukwu to identify with them and not the other way round.

Antivirus92: My stand in igbo history is that we should find the missing links in our history and not destroying them. I am from oraukwu. I grew up only to be told by my elders that my town is majority of migrants from nri. And that my family is among them. Igbos speaking same language and same culture is more than coincidence. Igbo has existed thousands of years before the advent of white men. So there is no way the white men can give an accurate account of what has existed before them. Our oral tradition has an extent to which it will break. So relying on it is useless. Our fore fathers did not document or write any form of histories. So when a community which use to be igbos only expirience any form of invasion or influx of strangers. The oral history will be adjusted. So the histories we have today may just be watered ones which has metamorphosized over time.

The fact that needs to be addressed is that Nri met already established Igbo communities and those people are the real Igbos. Nris, Aros and Idus came to already established proto-Igbo communities and affected their normal lives by establishing Kingship, deities and slave trade.

Antivirus92: My stand in igbo history is that we should find the missing links in our history and not destroying them. I am from oraukwu. I grew up only to be told by my elders that my town is majority of migrants from nri And that my family is among them. Igbos speaking same language and same culture is more than coincidence. Igbo has existed thousands of years before the advent of white men. So there is no way the white men can give an accurate account of what has existed before them. Our oral tradition has an extent to which it will break. So relying on it is useless. Our fore fathers did not document or write any form of histories. So when a community which use to be igbos only expirience any form of invasion or influx of strangers. The oral history will be adjusted. So the histories we have today may just be watered ones which has metamorphosized over time.

Thank you. Your elders told you. Why won't u respect the fact that some other people's elders might have told them emphatically that they were not from Nri? My ancestors worked very closely with Nri people. There was much harmony between us; so trust me if we are of Nri descent we will remember. If we don't remember, Nri people will remember. But neither of us (Nri or Awka) has ANY traditions that Nri settled here. Why would Nri people remember that they settled as far west as Ogwashi, but forget that they settle in Awka, just a few miles away?

Enugu State people are not even our favourite people. Yet we admit and accept that they settled among us and founded seven villages. If we insist that Nri didn't settle here, it isn't because we have something to hide; it is simply because they didn't. Umueri village was founded by Eri Onwa. And no, he wasn't the famous Eri of Aguleri, but an Amaenyiana man.

About finding missing links. All well and good. But it would be naive to think there are no coincidences in place names. Communities called Onicha are scattered all the way from Delta to Ebonyi; Communities with Agulu in their names are scattered throughout Enugu and Anambra; I know of at least three Nkwelles. The interesting thing is: they have traditions of origin that are independent of one another. They are only related in the general sense that Igbo-speaking peoples share a common linguistic and, to some extent, genetic root.

WE DON OVERFLOG THIS ISSUE, AND I'M DEAD-TIRED.

abagoro:

The fact that needs to be addressed is that Nri met already established Igbo communities and those people are the real Igbos. Nris, Aros and Idus came to already established proto-Igbo communities and affected their normal lives by establishing Kingship, deities and slave trade.

they met an already existing cultureless people that fall from heaven. Or were they created by God in that place? When people lose their history, instead of researching about it, they claim not to come from anywhere.

And unfortunately, awka was among umunri towns. They were not included by me or you. And they inclusion was not by force but with their consent. Google it.

ENOUGH OF THIS ARGUEMENT. I am unfollowing this useless thread asap!

Radoillo: What is laughable and childlish is Nri people saying they founded communities they know very well they didn't.

Which communities are Nri people claiming they founded?

Anybody can put any junk online, I prefer books by reputable people when making serious arguments.

But since you like google so much, explain the tradition of an Awka smith playing a role in the foundation of Aguleri by Eri, ancestor of Umueri and Umuneri. I mean, Awka shouldn't have been in existence then.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CEIQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FEri_(king)&ei=DQBrUrCxHuK14AThqAE&usg=AFQjCNF3akekangzLJ-LH8Bp3XuAzP8CRA&sig2=ACLYtolJti7uwwn4zmIrDw

Abagworo:
The thrust of his research work was putting the Nri clan in proper perspective within the context of Igbo history. Based on historical records which he obtained from the Portuguese archives, he was able to pinpoint the exact decade that Eri, the progenitor of the Nri clan, arrived Aguleri after fleeing his home in Igala in today’s Kogi state.

Whoever I quoted above should be ashamed of himself.
Portuguese archives gave you the history of Eri?

Well, I lack the word to describe you...

The funny thing is there's this Igala settlers in Northern Anambra that fled Igala land due to conflict and they settled around the period the OP said Eri settled in Igboland.
I hope he is not mixing things up to satisfy his insatiable desire to attack anything Anambra.

Obiagu1:

Which communities are Nri people claiming they founded?

The correct question is "which communities are Umunri and Umueri not claiming to have founded?" Read the book Eri Kingdom by F.C. Idigo, the Omambala of Aguleri. He claimed everywhere from Ebonyi and Afikpo to Ukwuani and Ikwerre. so long as ur village has 4-day week, ofo, ikenga, ifejioku, Nze, Ozo,Duru etc. U are of Nri descent, or at least of Eri descent.

And some Nri people here have been calling me a history revisionist and a distorter because i've explained that we do not have a history of Nri settlement where I come from. They themselves don't have a history that they settled in my town, but that hasn't stopped them from making absurd claims, anyway.

Probably, the Portuguese met Eri himself or his son Nri or his grandchildren because the Portuguese were around in the 17th century and Eri 'settled' in the 16th century.
I think some people's brains should be examined for defects.

Just for reference sake, Eri's date of existence in 'reputable' academia is between 900-1250. So we're talking about a 500+ year window here which is ridiculous.

ezeagu: Just for reference sake, Eri's date of existence in 'reputable' academia is between 900-1250. So we're talking about a 500+ year window here which is ridiculous.

I think Nwaezeigwe's dating, which places Eri in the 16th or 17th century is seriously flawed, and confuses two different epochs in Anambra valley history.

But again what u call reputable academia is actually the chronology postulated by a single man, Onwuejeogwu. Despite being popular, Onwuejeogwu's dating (900 - 1250) has been severely criticized by other 'reputable' scholars.

Radoillo:

I think Nwaezeigwe's dating, which places Eri in the 16th or 17th century is seriously flawed, and confuses two different epochs in Anambra valley history.

But again what u call reputable academia is actually the chronology postulated by a single man, Onwuejeogwu. Despite being popular, Onwuejeogwu's dating (900 - 1250) has been severely criticized by other 'reputable' scholars.

His work is a complete smear campaign.

Obiagu1: Which communities are Nri people claiming they founded?

From an article titled "Anambra Is Ancestral Home of the Igalas".

C. Eyutchae - Anambra is Ancestral Home of the Igalas:
By the same token how many of us in Nigeria are aware that Anambra State is the ancestral home of the Igalas, Ngwas, Jukuns and Binis? Yet it remains historically true that Anambra State is the birth place of the founding fathers of Bendel, Imo and Benue States. Hence in language classification these separated people speak a common language which forms part of Kwa group of West African languages.

ChinenyeN:

From an article titled "Anambra Is Ancestral Home of the Igalas".

People will say Eri is the progenitor of the Igbo race but will only 'claim' Eri and his children founded the towns in Anambra that include Ogbunike, Agukwu-Nri, Enugu-Ukwu, Enugu-Agidi, Nawfia etc.
The believe is that every other Igbo town came about from the migration and re-migration of Eri's children.

So the word 'claim' has to be used properly.

I've never heard any Igbo 'claim' we founded Igala.

ezeagu: Just for reference sake, Eri's date of existence in 'reputable' academia is between 900-1250. So we're talking about a 500+ year window here which is ridiculous.

That's a lie. Most of the Eri migration stories are centered around 15th to 17th century. The reason why the 9th century issue came up is because of the Igbo Nkwo discovery. Nri writers linked it to Nri instead of the host community who are of course not Nri.