₦airaland Forum

I was invited to dinner one day with a professor of theology and some housemates. The housemates were mainly Nigerians and also theology students (research students). Myself and another lady (a non nigeria) were the only non-theologians there.

During dinner, a discussion (brought up) by our white host went on about Nigerian pentecostal churches. I was quiet. Then it got to the point where the man said Nigerian churches has ATMs etc. Those other guys too went ahead saying all sorts of things. And here are research students who were supposed to be more fact-powered rather than assumptions and insinuations.

But at one point I couldn't take it anymore, I really don't know what triggered me to make corrections. So I started by telling the man there was no church I know with an ATM. Secondly, the leadership of mega churches motivates millions of Nigerian youths (and only those who have insight will understand this fact). I explained to him the role those ATM-churches play in the society, mentoring Nigerian youths.

The role of 'ATM-churches' as he was calling them in providing an avenue for young people to be responsible - you'll see them in church engaged in one activity or the other. Such is very important in a country where government can't provide any recreational amenities.

I explained to him how churches are turning out desirable graduates through their universities. Those universities which had added so much value to Nigeria's higher education.

The next thing that came from this professor was in agreement, suddenly he remembered and mentioned a research report he had read that said the churches had serious and meaningful impact.

Those other guys went silent. I left that place satisfied I wasn't an 'omo ale to fowo osi juwe ile' - Yorubas say that phrase when they want to make a point that you can't rubbish them. If only because I was Nigerian, I wouldn't allow him rubbish things bigger than him - in his country they don't have a 'vibrant church' like in Nigeria by the way.

Beyond that, I have also been a beneficiary. I was born in Our Lady ... Hospital, went to St ... Nursery School, then was in St John/Marys for JSS and then was in Wesley ... of Science for my SSS. Am sure I would have attended a private church varsity if there were any then.

So go on and liken churches to Ponzi, it just shows which side your brain(s) operates from.

Anyone can liken the Church to anything just to vent their deep-seated hatred for God.

Scholar8200:
Anyone can liken the Church to anything just to vent their deep-seated hatred for God.

Exactly.

This write up is very shallow. Did nothing to differentiate the Nigerian church from any ponzi scheme. Every line shows you exactly why our churches esp the prosperity driven ones are nothing but an advanced MMM. Collect from the poor to feed one or some!

getostar:
This write up is very shallow. Did nothing to differentiate the Nigerian church from any ponzi scheme. Every line shows you exactly why our churches esp the prosperity driven ones are nothing but an advanced MMM. Collect from the poor to fed one or some!

Ponzi scheme - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme
A Ponzi scheme (/ˈpɒn.zi/; also a Ponzi game) is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator, an individual or organization, pays returns to its investors from new capital paid to the operators by new investors, rather than from profit earned through legitimate sources.

What is similar between this definition and what I wrote? Please help me out people!

The church is not a Ponzi Scheme, but 90% of Pastors are ponzi schemers

thesicilian:
The church is not a Ponzi Scheme, but 90% of Pastors are ponzi schemers

Give me facts, numbers, and empirical arguments to back up this statement and I will send you $90.

MakeADifference:
Ponzi scheme - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme
A Ponzi scheme (/ˈpɒn.zi/; also a Ponzi game) is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator, an individual or organization, pays returns to its investors from new capital paid to the operators by new investors, rather than from profit earned through legitimate sources.

What is similar between this definition and what I wrote? Please help me out people!

You pay tithe In hope of making heaven?

MakeADifference:
I was invited to dinner one day with a professor of theology and some housemates. The housemates were mainly Nigerians and also theology students (research students). Myself and another lady (a non nigeria) were the only non-theologians there.

During dinner, a discussion (brought up) by our white host went on about Nigerian pentecostal churches. I was quiet. Then it got to the point where the man said Nigerian churches has ATMs etc. Those other guys too went ahead saying all sorts of things. And here are research students who were supposed to be more fact-powered rather than assumptions and insinuations.

But at one point I couldn't take it anymore, I really don't know what triggered me to make corrections. So I started by telling the man there was no church I know with an ATM. Secondly, the leadership of mega churches motivates millions of Nigerian youths (and only those who have insight will understand this fact). I explained to him the role those ATM-churches play in the society, mentoring Nigerian youths.

The role of 'ATM-churches' as he was calling them in providing an avenue for young people to be responsible - you'll see them in church engaged in one activity or the other. Such is very important in a country where government can't provide any recreational amenities.

I explained to him how churches are turning out desirable graduates through their universities. Those universities which had added so much value to Nigeria's higher education.

The next thing that came from this professor was in agreement, suddenly he remembered and mentioned a research report he had read that said the churches had serious and meaningful impact.

Those other guys went silent. I left that place satisfied I wasn't an 'omo ale to fowo osi juwe ile' - Yorubas say that phrase when they want to make a point that you can't rubbish them. If only because I was Nigerian, I wouldn't allow him rubbish things bigger than him - in his country they don't have a 'vibrant church' like in Nigeria by the way.

Beyond that, I have also been a beneficiary. I was born in Our Lady ... Hospital, went to St ... Nursery School, then was in St John/Marys for JSS and then was in Wesley ... of Science for my SSS. Am sure I would have attended a private church varsity if there were any then.

So go on and liken churches to Ponzi, it just shows which side your brain(s) operates from.

I don't see any reason to argue with people with low understanding of the Holy Book, because many people have the Bible but doesn't open it to learn more about God and His Prophets....... I hope you still remember that Jesus Christ and His disciples were criticized

[quote author=MakeADifference post=52108739]Ponzi scheme - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme
A Ponzi scheme (/ˈpɒn.zi/; also a Ponzi game) is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator, an individual or organization, pays returns to its investors from new capital paid to the operators by new investors, rather than from profit earned through legitimate sources.

What is similar between this definition and what I wrote? Please help me out people![/quote

shebi u mentioned university somewhere in your write-up.
let me refresh your memory.
when the white men came to sell the bible to ur ancestors, they came and added value to the common people who they were selling it to. they built schools , hospitals and even infastructure.
if u r old enough u probably utilized them, if not, pls ask ur parents.
so many went to such quality schools at almost no cost.
pls tell me what applies now?
u hv members contribute their widows mite...those that can't are used as cheap labour in building their edifices...then u deprive them the quality education u talk about for financial gain.
what other ponzi scheme do u want me to talk about when this stares u in the face?

JamieRocks:
I don't see any reason to argue with people with low understanding of the Holy Book, because many people have the Bible but doesn't open it to learn more about God and His Prophets....... I hope you still remember that Jesus Christ and His disciples were criticized

very convenient to quote Jesus christ when it supports ur claim.
shebi Jesus didn't have a home, or a personal donkey, or a armed guards.
please remind me which disciple died peacefully....
ur so called men of god conform to the world...thus they are at peace.
the bible states its clearly, u cant conform to the world n live in 'peace'...cuz the world is evil.

MakeADifference:
I was invited to dinner one day with a professor of theology and some housemates. The housemates were mainly Nigerians and also theology students (research students). Myself and another lady (a non nigeria) were the only non-theologians there.

During dinner, a discussion (brought up) by our white host went on about Nigerian pentecostal churches. I was quiet. Then it got to the point where the man said Nigerian churches has ATMs etc. Those other guys too went ahead saying all sorts of things. And here are research students who were supposed to be more fact-powered rather than assumptions and insinuations.

But at one point I couldn't take it anymore, I really don't know what triggered me to make corrections. So I started by telling the man there was no church I know with an ATM. Secondly, the leadership of mega churches motivates millions of Nigerian youths (and only those who have insight will understand this fact). I explained to him the role those ATM-churches play in the society, mentoring Nigerian youths.

The role of 'ATM-churches' as he was calling them in providing an avenue for young people to be responsible - you'll see them in church engaged in one activity or the other. Such is very important in a country where government can't provide any recreational amenities.

I explained to him how churches are turning out desirable graduates through their universities. Those universities which had added so much value to Nigeria's higher education.

The next thing that came from this professor was in agreement, suddenly he remembered and mentioned a research report he had read that said the churches had serious and meaningful impact.

Those other guys went silent. I left that place satisfied I wasn't an 'omo ale to fowo osi juwe ile' - Yorubas say that phrase when they want to make a point that you can't rubbish them. If only because I was Nigerian, I wouldn't allow him rubbish things bigger than him - in his country they don't have a 'vibrant church' like in Nigeria by the way.

Beyond that, I have also been a beneficiary. I was born in Our Lady ... Hospital, went to St ... Nursery School, then was in St John/Marys for JSS and then was in Wesley ... of Science for my SSS. Am sure I would have attended a private church varsity if there were any then.

So go on and liken churches to Ponzi, it just shows which side your brain(s) operates from.

Your story is misleading and so your conclusion is also misleading. At the end you did nothing to dispel the accusation of Churches (Nigerian) being ponzi schemes.

All those christian institutions you said you benefited from are not recognized as " Nigerian Churches". The typical definition of Nigerian churches are Pentecostal, prosperity preaching, demon casting, tongue speaking and most importantly, tithe emphasizing church, owned by one man, living extravagant life and who has been raised to a status of an infallible god.
Name one Nigerian church that provide the sort of free or cheap services you enjoyed ie hospitals, schools, etc.

Nigerian churches give very little to the youth. In fact they exploit the youth for tithes and offerings and their energy. I have seen youths walking the streets, distributing tracts, selling books and evangelizing for various churches without getting paid one naira. The amount of time nigerian youths waste for church activities would have been better put to use to improving their lives

MakeADifference:
But at one point I couldn't take it anymore, I really don't know what triggered me to make corrections. So I started by telling the man there was no church I know with an ATM.

what they mean is that there are churches that use POS, attached is a pic of one such

The role of 'ATM-churches' as he was calling them in providing an avenue for young people to be responsible - you'll see them in church engaged in one activity or the other.
Such is very important in a country where government can't provide any recreational amenities.

HOW?

I explained to him how churches are turning out desirable graduates through their universities. Those universities which had added so much value to Nigeria's higher education.

Universities that the average member of that church can't afford to send their children to?

are you sure you were talking to your mates and Superiors? cuz I'm sure someone would've cut you off right here

The next thing that came from this professor was in agreement, suddenly he remembered and mentioned a research report he had read that said the churches had serious and meaningful impact.

the professor probably doesn't want argument or they already know you to be very opinionated

Beyond that, I have also been a beneficiary. I was born in Our Lady ... Hospital, went to St ... Nursery School, then was in St John/Marys for JSS and then was in Wesley ... of Science for my SSS. Am sure I would have attended a private church varsity if there were any then.

good for you but this has next to nothing to do with this

So go on and liken churches to Ponzi, it just shows which side your brain(s) operates from.

empty

getostar:
very convenient to quote Jesus christ when it supports ur claim.
shebi Jesus didn't have a home, or a personal donkey, or a armed guards.
please remind me which disciple died peacefully....
ur so called men of god conform to the world...thus they are at peace.
the bible states its clearly, u cant conform to the world n live in 'peace'...cuz the world is evil.

and what makes you think they don't go through difficulties for you to understand the word or maybe you're expecting them to announce to you whenever they are attacked. How many persons have you lead to righteousness, my advice for you is to pray God to show the light to follow the right path Instead of criticizing the prophets

wirinet:
Your story is misleading and so your conclusion is also misleading. At the end you did nothing to dispel the accusation of Churches (Nigerian) being ponzi schemes.

All those christian institutions you said you benefited from are not recognized as " Nigerian Churches". The typical definition of Nigerian churches are Pentecostal, prosperity preaching, demon casting, tongue speaking and most importantly, tithe emphasizing church, owned by one man, living extravagant life and who has been raised to a status of an infallible god.
Name one Nigerian church that provide the sort of free or cheap services you enjoyed ie hospitals, schools, etc.

Nigerian churches give very little to the youth. In fact they exploit the youth for tithes and offerings and their energy. I have seen youths walking the streets, distributing tracts, selling books and evangelizing for various churches without getting paid one naira. The amount of time nigerian youths waste for church activities would have been better put to use to improving their lives

1. Free is given when free can be given. Millions of people benefit daily from their church. If you are in need and your pastor didnt lend a hand shout out here and I will personally call him to accuse him.

2. Nigerian churches give very little to the youth. Have you ever been to a Nigerian church? Nowhere is there a concern for the youth than in many of these churches that the devils in our midst won't stop blackmailing. There are so many youth around whose only role models are the people they see in church. They have no better example at home or in their community.

3. Nigerian youth waste time for church activities - I salute you! The same church activities that smart Nigerian youth will add to their CV and use to get leadership points in better countries.

hopefulLandlord:
what they mean is that there are churches that use POS, attached is a pic of one such


HOW?


Universities that the average member of that church can't afford to send their children to?

are you sure you were talking to your mates and Superiors? cuz I'm sure someone would've cut you off right here



the professor probably doesn't want argument or they already know you to be very opinionated


good for you but this has next to nothing to do with this


empty

Picture noted, those POS are response to cashless whatever.

You said "re you sure you were talking to your mates and Superiors? cuz I'm sure someone would've cut you off right here"

Cut me off? Well it wasn't a NL discussion where people go on concreteheaded. It was in a place where people know that they only learn where they listen to *different* thinking from the one they were used to.

I still do not know how going to church schools which are mostly paid schools any differentbfrom attending a non church owned private school. I do not see any thing you gained by just belonging to a church that a non church's person with a good and wise uncle or aunt would not get from paying them a visit.

getostar:
very convenient to quote Jesus christ when it supports ur claim.
shebi Jesus didn't have a home, or a personal donkey, or a armed guards.
please remind me which disciple died peacefully....
ur so called men of god conform to the world...thus they are at peace.
the bible states its clearly, u cant conform to the world n live in 'peace'...cuz the world is evil.

You are one of those people who don't know Jesus at all. I once had to *study* Matthew in the Bible. When I was done, I realised how little I (and most people) knew about Jesus. He had no home ble ble ble; but even the 'big men' of those times called him Master.

MakeADifference:
Picture noted, those POS are response to cashless whatever.

You said "re you sure you were talking to your mates and Superiors? cuz I'm sure someone would've cut you off right here"

Cut me off? Well it wasn't a NL discussion where people go on concreteheaded. It was in a place where people know that they only learn where they listen to *different* thinking from the one they were used to.

it seems you're getting this mixed up

you CAN'T be cut off on Nairaland

you'll finish whatever you're typing, attach file(s) you want to and click "submit"

but you can be cut off in real life before even saying a word

for example, this part of your writeup

But at one point I couldn't take it anymore, I really don't know what triggered me to make corrections.

implies that you cut in while they were discussing in agreement

delishpot:
I still do not know how going to church schools which are mostly paid schools any differentbfrom attending a non church owned private school. I do not see any thing you gained by just belonging to a church that a non church's person with a good and wise uncle or aunt would not get from paying them a visit.

Ok, let me elaborate a bit. The value churches add to the Nigerian society is immeasurable. Simple.

hopefulLandlord:
it seems you're getting this mixed up

you CAN'T be cut off on Nairaland

you'll finish whatever you're typing, attach file(s) you want to and click "submit"

but you can be cut off in real life before even saying a word

for example, this part of your writeup implies that you cut in while they were discussing in agreement

No mixup. I wasn't interested in what they were saying because they weren't analytical. When it got to a point where I saw my silence could be taken for agreement, I spoke out.

MakeADifference:
You are one of those people who don't know Jesus at all. I once had to *study* Matthew in the Bible. When I was done, I realised how little I (and most people) knew about Jesus. He had no home ble ble ble; but even the 'big men' of those times called him Master.

Oya tell us about Matthew na. We all want to learn. Secondly master meant Teacher. Stop misinterpreting terms. Jesus was not rich...neither was any disciple. U hv conveniently forgotten all d verses were Jesus talked ab riches.
Let's n even argue too much. Jesus is th only teacher. He has given u the bible which is all u need. Stop following pastors!!!!!!!!

getostar:
Oya tell us about Matthew na. We all want to learn. Secondly master meant Teacher. Stop misinterpreting terms. Jesus was not rich...neither was any disciple. U hv conveniently forgotten all d verses were Jesus talked ab riches.
Let's n even argue too much. Jesus is th only teacher. He has given u the bible which is all u need. Stop following pastors!!!!!!!!

You already made the point. See this https://www.nairaland.com/3511054/christians-alone-know-god-go; and judge whether I 'follow pastors'.

MakeADifference:
You already made the point. See this https://www.nairaland.com/3511054/christians-alone-know-god-go; and judge whether I 'follow pastors'.

Of cuz I do.*winks*

MakeADifference:
Give me facts, numbers, and empirical arguments to back up this statement and I will send you $90.

Some roads are better not travelled.

JamieRocks:
and what makes you think they don't go through difficulties for you to understand the word or maybe you're expecting them to announce to you whenever they are attacked. How many persons have you lead to righteousness, my advice for you is to pray God to show the light to follow the right path Instead of criticizing the prophets

Lol. Same people that tell u that only sinners r poor n suffer affliction? Or that sell 'springwater' n 'vegetable oil to u for protection from evil while walkin about with guards?

MakeADifference:
Ok, let me elaborate a bit. The value churches add to the Nigerian society is immeasurable. Simple.

Value like?