₦airaland Forum

Haroun13:
Note; you don't just pick a hadith out of it's context. This command was given in a time of war, and was referring to the Pagans, who were at war with the Muslims.

Something just doesn't add up here. How can a hadith with the words [color=#600]"fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity..."[/color] be given at a time when muslims were under an attack from the enemy, as you claim? That hadith sounds more like "fight people until they accept Islam." When you're under attack, you fight to defend yourself, and not to make your opponent worship your god.

This, coupled with the fact that Mohammed supposedly allowed retaliation which is only proportional to the offence committed, makes it much more ridiculous that a mere victory over an enemy army would make them begin to revere allah and Mohammed and to pray.

truthmans2012:
The leader of Isis is a Ph.D holder is Islamic Studies. Like Saudi Arabia, the man cannot be said to be ignorant of the interpretation of the Qur'an. Islam was founded on violence and continues to exist on violence. Three days ago I heard on AIT news that eight people were killed in one of the Islamic countries for apostasy.

I then wondered why God would reintroduce violence to the world after Jesus had ended it. Is Allah the sender of Jesus?

Both Allah and Yahweh are working hand in hand to cause chaos in the world. They both know what they are doing, being enemies to the human race.

.

truthmans2012:
The few percentage of Muslims, the Arabs are the true Muslims in the real sense of the Quran. None Arabs who do not follow the injunctions of Allah should quit the religion immediately to prevent wasting their lives.

I wonder who told you this. A true Muslims is one who follows the Qur'an and Sunnah of Muhammad (pbuh) in truth.
Also, your "speech" doesn't even support you, because I'm sure you probably know that it was the same Arabs(pagans) who opposed the spread of the message of Islam.
In conclusion, a true Muslim is not one who is Arab, but one who follows the Qur'an and Sunnah of Muhammad (pbuh) in truth.

These are what the true Muslims (mostly the Arabs) follow and you are not in the position to accuse them of misinterpretation. They know Islam better than you:

Another misleading interpretation. Knowing Islam in truth has nothing to do with being an Arab. Read above.

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Another wrong interpretation.
Quran 2:216 Jihad ['Qital '] (holy war in the cause of God) is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you. But God knows, and you know not.

The first mistake in this translation is that this Quranic verse actually does not use the word “Jihad”. This verse actually uses the word “Qital”, which refers to physical combat in war. Combat is ordained for Muslims in order to defend themselves and their rights, as well as the rights of others. It is sufficient to quote a verse from the Quran in this regard:
4:75 And what is wrong with you that you do not engage in combat for the sake of Allah, and for those weak, ill-treated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help."
It is most certainly a duty of all human beings to help each other from oppression and injustice. This is what Islam teaches. Commenting on verse 2:216, Abdullah Yusuf Ali writes:
To fight (combat) in the cause of Truth is one of the highest forms of charity. What can you offer that is more precious than your own life? But here again the limitations come in. If you are a mere brawler, or a selfish aggressive person, or a vainglorious bully, you deserve the highest censure. (Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur'an, Text, Translation and Commentary )
Therefore, the fighting ordained by God in the Qur'an is the fighting to establish justice and security in the land, and this is a duty upon all human beings. We will always hope for peace, but we must realize that without justice, freedom, rights and equity, peace will never be able to survive. Likewise, on verse 2:216, Abdul Majid Daryabadi writes:
War, it has been truly said, is sanctioned by the law of nature – the constitution of man and the constitution of society – and is at times a biological and sociological necessity. Islam, the ideal and practical religion has allowed it, but only in cases of sheer necessity.
(Daryabadi, The Glorious Qur’an, emphasis added)
Islam has designated war as the last resort and only in cases of sheer necessity, in order for us to defend the rights of ourselves and others. Also, the picture becomes even more clear when we take into consideration the historical context of the revelation. Abdullah Yusuf Ali goes on to explain the historical context in his commentary on verse 2:217:
The intolerance and persecution of the Pagan clique at Mecca caused untold hardships to the holy Messenger of Islam and his early disciples. They bore all with meekness and long-suffering patience until the holy one permitted them to take up arms in self-defense…
(Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur'an, Text, Translation and Commentary )
In light of the above quote, it becomes apparent that fighting has been especially ordained in conditions of severe persecution and hardship. Consequently, the Muslims are required to defend themselves from oppression and establish justice. To abstain from helping those under oppression is cowardice. Abdul Majid Daryabadi also explains the historical context of the verse:
Persecuted, harassed, afflicted, poverty-ridden, exiled, and small in number as the Muslims were at the time of the enactment of warfare, it was but natural that they were none too fond of crossing swords with the mighty forces that had conspired for their extirpation. Nothing short of express and emphatic Divine Command could urge them on to the field of battle [in order to defend their rights]. And yet the Islamic jihads are declared to be ‘designed by the Prophet to satisfy his discontented adherents by an accession of plunder!’ (Margoliouth). Such is this European scholar’s love of veracity! Such is his wonderful reading of history! (Daryabadi, The Glorious Qur’an )
The commentary on this verse makes it very clear that Muslims have always understood this verse as the legal right to defend one’s rights from the forces of oppression, but never to transgress limits in defense.

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

This is very clear.
“(We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve) [3:151]. Said al-Suddi: “After Uhud, Abu Sufyan and the idolaters headed toward Mecca. But after they traversed a certain distance, they felt regret, saying: ‘Evil is that which we have done! We massacred them [Muslims] such that none of them remained except those who fled from the battlefield and then we left them alone. Go back and exterminate them ’. But when they decided to do so, Allah, exalted is He, cast terror in their hearts which made them decide against what they had resolved to do. Allah, exalted is He, then revealed this verse.”
Another interpretation is that the verse refers to the punishment of unbelievers in the hereafter.

This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity

I guess so.

ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Actually, it's correct. Because, you cant be telling me that the father is 1 person, the son is 1 person, and the holy ghost is 1 person but they are not 3 persons but 1, the father is 1 god, the son is 1 god, and the holy ghost is 1 god but they are not 3 gods but 1. What language are you speaking, because by Allah, it is not English but gibberish. You see, when you use words, the mind cant help but conjure up mental pictures. Maybe when you here "the father", you picture Santa Claus, but much bigger, with the heavens as canopy, and all that. When you hear "the son", you imagine Jesus (pbuh), and when you hear "the holy ghost", the picture might not be clear, but you imagine either the dove, during the baptism, or the figure in the fire at Pentecost. But no matter how hard you try, you can never super impose these 3 pictures. So, when you say you only see one being, you are lying, my brother, you are lying.

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Again, another misleading quotation. I'm sure you didn't read the verse immediately after this to know what "fighting in the cause of Allah" is.

4:75 And what is wrong with you that you do not engage in combat for the sake of Allah, and for those weak, ill-treated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help."
Please tell me how that relates to "suicide bombing". You don't know Islam. Stop spreading false info to mislead others.

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Again, another malicious quotation. Why don't you read it in full, if you are truthful.

"They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks; – Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them). Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: Every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto: if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them: In their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them". (YUSUF ALI Translation, Quran 4:89-91)
Please, tell me where it says Muslims should go about on a killing spree with innocent and peaceful people, whether believers or not.

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward "

First, "Jihad" means to struggle or persevere, or strive. Any action that involves striving to please Allah, or striving to abstain from sin is Jihad. Jihad could also be in form of physical fighting, only in the case of fighting oppression. So, apply this if you are truthful and tell me how it involves killing innocents.

This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is this Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse). Allah will allow the disabled into Paradise, but will provide a larger reward to those who are able to kill in his cause.

Wow! I think you should clap for yourself.
See how you interpret the verse maliciously. I already told you above that the only form of Jihad that involves fighting physically, is fighting against oppression.
Also, if you read the preceding verse, you'll see that your interpretation is entirely false and unfounded. Again, only if you are truthful.
Also 4:94 prevents killing of innocents as it says “…be careful to discriminate, and say not unto one who offereth you peace: “Thou art not a believer,” seeking the chance profits of this life…”

Those quranic verses of violence is the reason the Arabs, including Muhammad's own relatives, the Saudi Arabians are violent.

I don't know how true your "claims" of "violence" are, but like i said, that is not the basis of Islam, rather, the basis of Islam is the Quran and Authentic hadith. And if you are truthful, you'll clearly see that your so called quotes of violence are entirely false and unfounded.

You can't claim to know better than the people who introduced the religion to you.

Why not? Besides, Islam is for the whole world, so, again, understanding and following the Quran and Sunnah of Muhammad (pbuh) in truth has nothing to do with being an Arab.

Salaam.

policy12:
Pls help mi out I pm you kindly do mi a favor by replying mi back. You are such a great teacher or you can text me on this line 09091340712 I will call back. Please I wait eagerly for ur to text.

It is too risky giving out your personal details in an anonymous forum. You can learn anything on the internet.

@ truthmans2012, pls don't share your number with this guy.

Demmzy15:
From the above refutation, truthman would resort to:

1. Come back as usual like a programmed robot, in which he'll derail his own thread.
2. Switch to one of his alternate accounts and comes wanking about the thread with the same rubbish but fashioned in another way.

So let's wait and see!!

The so called refutation is full of deliberate lies, contradiction, mis interpretation of the quoran, kitman and islamic al taquiya.

annunaki2:
The so called refutation is full of deliberate lies, contradiction, mis interpretation of the quoran, kitman and islamic al taquiya.

Demmzy15:

How market? I hope your brothers are not planning any Christmas day bombing this year.

annunaki2:
How market? I hope your brothers are not planning any Christmas day bombing this year.

Demmzy15:

Close your dirty brown gworo teeth.

annunaki2:
Close your dirty brown gworo teeth.

Demmzy15:
From the above refutation, truthman would resort to:

1. Come back as usual like a programmed robot, in which he'll derail his own thread.
2. Switch to one of his alternate accounts and comes wanking about the thread with the same rubbish but fashioned in another way.

So let's wait and see!!

3. Opens Another Thread...

annunaki2:
The so called refutation is full of deliberate lies, contradiction, mis interpretation of the quoran, kitman and islamic al taquiya.

It seems Nigerian Muslims are more scholarly in islam than Saudi sheiks, imams and the ulamas. The Wahhabi Saudi clerics had made it known that Islam is perpetually at war with the kafirs, until all religion is for allahh, but altaqiyya vendors of Nigeria here on nairaland will say otherwise.

The Quran and the hadith also supported the Arabs/Saudi claim of Arab cultural and religious supremacy. In the office now, will post the necessary references later.

true2god:
It seems Nigerian Muslims are more scholarly in islam than Saudi sheiks, imams and the ulamas. The Wahhabi Saudi clerics had made it known that Islam is perpetually at war with the kafirs, until all religion is for allahh, but altaqiyya vendors of Nigeria here on nairaland will say otherwise.

The Quran and the hadith also supported the Arabs/Saudi claim of Arab cultural and religious supremacy. In the office now, will post the necessary references later.

See painment!

Al-Taquiya
Hahaha

true2god:
It seems Nigerian Muslims are more scholarly in islam than Saudi sheiks, imams and the ulamas. The Wahhabi Saudi clerics had made it known that Islam is perpetually at war with the kafirs, until all religion is for allahh, but altaqiyya vendors of Nigeria here on nairaland will say otherwise.

The Quran and the hadith also supported the Arabs/Saudi claim of Arab cultural and religious supremacy. In the office now, will post the necessary references later.

I tire for naija muslims oh! Is it possible they know Islam more than the Arabs who gave them the religion Truth be told they know the truth but are too ashamed to admit the truth about Islam. Why lie for a religion you are ashamed of? Does it not make more sense to renounce the disgraceful religion? Then again I remember the intensity of brain washing in Islam and their evil apotasy laws.

It isn't peaceful/good,that is why i left it...but it is hard bein an ex-muslimah,because i have to live a pretence life,it is hard to completely get out of it,because most my family is muslim,plus am married and already have 4 kids,it is only last two years i realised the truth about islam....pretence is so hard,because all my life i grew up believing & defending this religion of lies,rape,murder,thievery...wish i knew during childhood

Better yet wish i wasnt born to muslims

purple3091:
It isn't peaceful/good,that is why i left it...but it is hard bein an ex-muslimah,because i have to live a pretence life,it is hard to completely get out of it,because most my family is muslim,plus am married and already have 4 kids,it is only last two years i realised the truth about islam....pretence is so hard,because all my life i grew up believing & defending this religion of lies,rape,murder,thievery...wish i knew during childhood

You aren't far from salvation. I pray God will make a way to perfect it. That you have realized the truth is the work of God. You can see how some people are still defending the religion as if they can't read and understand.

purple3091:
It isn't peaceful/good,that is why i left it...but it is hard bein an ex-muslimah,because i have to live a pretence life,it is hard to completely get out of it,because most my family is muslim,plus am married and already have 4 kids,it is only last two years i realised the truth about islam....pretence is so hard,because all my life i grew up believing & defending this religion of lies,rape,murder,thievery...wish i knew during childhood

Salaam. I couldn't help but notice this comment. I'll like to know the "truth" about Islam which you discovered. Because if what you "discovered" was even "half" close to the truth, you'll uphold the deen even more.
I do not criticize or judge, because I don't know your struggles, and you don't know mine. So, please, tell me what you discovered that you didn't like, and In shaa Allah, it will be answered "in truth", and hopefully, Allah (SWT) will guide you back to the deen of Islam.

Salaam

Haroun13:
Salaam. I couldn't help but notice this comment. I'll like to know the "truth" about Islam which you discovered. Because if what you "discovered" was even "half" close to the truth, you'll uphold the deen even more.
I do not criticize or judge, because I don't know your struggles, and you don't know mine. So, please, tell me what you discovered that you didn't like, and In shaa Allah, it will be answered "in truth", and hopefully, Allah (SWT) will guide you back to the deen of Islam.

Salaam

hi to you too, first of all,i will never ever and forever be guided to a religion whose foundation is on lies,murder,rape,pedophilia,i left islam because that is its foundation.i am on a small phone,i will give some examples of the proof i have tomorrow,i don't want to have to type out the verses,rather copy and paste tomorrow when home using laptop,am at my sis in law place.

purple3091:
It isn't peaceful/good,that is why i left it...but it is hard bein an ex-muslimah,because i have to live a pretence life,it is hard to completely get out of it,because most my family is muslim,plus am married and already have 4 kids,it is only last two years i realised the truth about islam....pretence is so hard,because all my life i grew up believing & defending this religion of lies,rape,murder,thievery...wish i knew during childhood

Demmzy15 udatso rilwayne001 you have a lot to learn from this lady/ gentleman.

purple3091:
hi to you too, first of all,i will never ever and forever be guided to a religion whose foundation is on lies,murder,rape,pedophilia,i left islam because that is its foundation.i am on a small phone,i will give some examples of the proof i have tomorrow,i don't want to have to type out the verses,rather copy and paste tomorrow when home using laptop,am at my sis in law place.

Very well said, congratulations on being freed from the shackles of Islam.

annunaki2:
Very well said, congratulations on being freed from the shackles of Islam.

thanks hey,i still cant believe how foolish i was,now i feel trapped because i am already married,have kids before i found this out,and its even harder each passing moment to pretend,esp when i look at myself in the mirror as i put my hijab on & also when talking to muslim family/friends where i have to pretend to agree with their thoughts,i really have to find a way to be completely free from this badness called islam....thanks for your comforting words

annunaki2:
you have a lot to learn from this lady/ gentleman.

Like what and what o?

And you, what do you know about your religion?

purple3091:
thanks hey,i still cant believe how foolish i was,now i feel trapped because i am already married,have kids before i found this out,and its even harder each passing moment to pretend,esp when i look at myself in the mirror as i put my hijab on & also when talking to muslim family/friends where i have to pretend to agree with their thoughts,i really have to find a way to be completely free from this badness called islam....thanks for your comforting words

So madam, can you tell us why you left Islam and for how long have you being a devoted muslim?

Rilwayne001:
So madam, can you tell us why you left Islam and for how long have you being a devoted muslim?

my reasons are here on this topic,my initial post to this topic,that islam is a religion founded & continued,by lies,murder,rape,thievery. i had been a devoted muslimah all my life,was born in it,i left it about 2 years ago.

purple3091:
my reasons are here on this topic,my initial post to this topic,that islam is a religion founded & continued,by lies,murder,rape,thievery. i had been a devoted muslimah all my life,was born in it,i left it about 2 years ago.

Okay. I didn't even read the OP.