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Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by Ubenedictus(m): 9:09am On Jun 05, 2016 |
dolphinheart:the bible does mention adelphos of jesuss and even mentions them with mary, but never sons of mary those are facts. yes you are right , it does not address the topic, but it surely helps one to understand why you hold on to the veneration of Mary and put her in a position that does not have any divine organizational surpport. you gave her a crown God does not like or approve of, and you had to alter God's organizational arrangement to achieve this!again the rant continues. did I say it was sin? noaccording to the law Jesus was also unclean when he was saving us becos he bled, and he was accursed by the law for dying on a tree. So Jesus was also unclean and even accursed by the law, as his mother wwas unclean at childbirth according to the law. Sorry dear but what does that prove? |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by Ubenedictus(m): 9:58am On Jun 05, 2016 |
otipoju:sorry dear that is pure speculation, if God wanted us to blive mary perpetual virginity he wwould have told us, if God wanted us to believe in the trinity he would have said it plain in the bible, if God wanted us to believe bible the catholic church wouldnt compile it, the apostles and Jesus would do it etc, pure speculation. It was never contested in the bible that lot was Abraham's relative and not brother.but yet the word used to describe them is the one for brothers, the same word used to describe the sso called brothers of Jesus. that should tell u the scope and range of the word. It was clearly stated that Joseph brothers were half brothers.The answer comes from a close reading of the Gospels. Matthew and Mark name the following as “brothers” of Jesus: James, Joseph (or “Joses,” depending on the manuscript), Simon, and Judas (i.e., “Jude”). But Matthew 27:56 says that at the cross were Mary Magdalene and “Mary the mother of James and Joseph,” whom he significantly calls “the other Mary” (Mt 27:61) (i.e., the Mary who was not Mary the Mother of Jesus). John concurs with this, telling us that “standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene” (Jn 19:25, emphasis added). In short, James, Jude, and their brothers are the children of “the other Mary,” the wife of Clopas, not Mary, the Mother of Jesus. Interestingly, this “other Mary” is described as the mary “sister.” Is it really possible that two siblings were both named Mary? Probably not. Rather it’s far more likely they were “sisters” in the same sense Jesus and the other Mary’s son, James, were “brothers.” That is, they were cousins or some other extended relation. The same bible that talks about the brothers of Jesus tells us their mothers andd even fathers, they werent marys children. 2 Likes |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by Ubenedictus(m): 10:10am On Jun 05, 2016 |
Sarassin:since u are so sure the greek never uses brother to describe relatives then why does the septuagist use adelphos to describe lot and abramham? The fact that Mary indulged in sex with her husband after Jesus was born does not in any way diminish from who she was, similarly the rush to deny Jesus any form of earthly comfort i.e familial sibling relationships is simply not right, he was afterall a first century Palestinian Jew!now u can assert and speculate, but the idea of marys kids is a invention hardly found in the earlier centuries. The early christians clearly sttate mary had one kid and the bible doesnt disagree. |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by Ubenedictus(m): 10:21am On Jun 05, 2016 |
JMAN05:did sarah also give birth to god? Antitypes are prey across infact the old testamentt iss simply a shadow of the new, it is full of types and antityypes. If u study wwell they are easy to draw. |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by Ubenedictus(m): 10:43am On Jun 05, 2016 |
When David saw the ark he rejoiced and said, "How can the ark of the Lord come to me?" Elizabeth uses almost the same words: "Why isthis granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" Luke is telling us something—drawing our minds back to the Old Testament, showing us a parallel. When David approached the ark he shouted out and danced and leapt in front of the ark. He was wearing an ephod, the clothing of a priest. When Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, approached Elizabeth, John the Baptist leapt in his mother’s womb—and John was from the priestly line of Aaron. Both leapt and danced in the presence of the ark. The Ark of the Old Covenant remained in the house of Obed-edom for three months, and Mary remained in the house of Elizabeth for three months. The place that housed the ark for three months was blessed, and in the short paragraph in Luke, Elizabeth uses the word blessed three times. Her home was certainly blessed by the presence of the ark and the Lord within. When the Old Testament ark arrived—as when Mary arrived—they were both greeted with shouts of joy. The word for the cry of Elizabeth’s greeting is a rare Greek word used in connection with Old Testament liturgical ceremonies that were centered around the ark and worship (cf. Word Biblical Commentary, 67). This word would flip on the light switch for any knowledgeable Jew. The ark returns to its home and ends up in Jerusalem, where God’s presence and glory is revealed in the temple (2 Sm 6:12; 1 Kgs 8:9-11). Mary returns home and eventually ends up in Jerusalem, where she presents God incarnate in the temple (Lk 1:56; 2:21-22). |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by orunto27: 12:36pm On Jun 05, 2016 |
Jesus's brothers and sisters sucked the Breast of Mary just like Jesus. Does that make them God and Goddesses like Jesus? Yes. In which way are they then different from us who sucked our individual MAMA Breasts? Only if we regard ourselves as children of Eve and not of Mary. And choose the path of Judas Iscariot and not of John the brother and disciple of Jesus. As for Magdalene and her issues for Issve(Da vinci code), God permited such fulness of Life search and progress. |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by dolphinheart(m): 1:40pm On Jun 05, 2016 |
Ubenedictus:from my facts jesus had brothers and sisters jesus brothers are with Mary on a number of occasions someone with no twisted intentions will agree to the larger possibility that Jesus brothers are actually mary's children. no other parent was mentioned for this brothers of jesus, they are mostimes with Mary, Jesus mother. no law stops Mary from having seXual relations with her lawfully wedded husband(in the eyes of God and in the eyes of the law) again the rant continues.yep, they are rants that will help one to understand why you hold on to the veneration of Mary and put her in a position that does not have any divine organizational surpport. you gave her a crown God does not like or approve of, and you had to alter God's organizational arrangement to achieve this! according to the law Jesus was also unclean when he was saving us becos he bled, and he was accursed by the law for dying on a tree. So Jesus was also unclean and even accursed by the law, as his mother wwas unclean at childbirth according to the law.accused by the law, pls show scriptural proof! Sorry dear but what does that prove? are items made Holy ever at any time unclean in the eyes of the law? |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by Nobody: 3:55pm On Jun 05, 2016 |
Ubenedictus: You cannot hang your erroneous doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Mary on the improper citation of the Septuagint. The Septuagint is a translation of the Hebrew Bible (which consisted largely of the OT) into Greek. We are agreed that certain words like “cousin” and “half-brother” were not in use and the term “brother” may have been used interchangeably depending on the individual authors of the OT. However, the NT was composed entirely in Greek, and as I have shown in my previous post, they had the appropriate words to use to define proper familial relationships. Finally, we have the historical source of the Jewish-Roman historian/author Josephus who wrote the following: "And so he convened the judges of the Sanhedrin, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, the one called Christ, whose name was James, and certain others…." Antiquities (Book 20, Ch. 9, Par. 1). 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by Nobody: 2:21pm On Jun 06, 2016 |
Ubenedictus: Did u forget? Likewise, ask What makes somebody exclusively yours is the matrimony not the offspring. And I have shown that those whom God view as His wife can have intercourse with a fleshly husband. Again, Mary was never recorded as Gods wife in the bible, only Josephs. And Jesus is the son of Joseph. Mary is the mother of Joseph's son. Make no mistake about that. He legally married her. so he has a claim to her than ur god. however no one can take Christ's bride. Christ bought them with his blood. but they can marry individually. Ubeni dont u think its good we view Gods wife as He does and not force Him to do view her as we like? Gods Ark was never ever stated to prefigure Mary. But how can someone be an antitype of what is still in force. The ark was still being considered by God as a sacred material, how then could it have an antitype? 1 Like |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by easymancfc(m): 3:42pm On Dec 22, 2016 |
In the Old testament Also, the Word or God's Commandments was not made to prefigure Christ... That concept was brought forward by John in John 1, In the ark or covenant box, you had three things according to Hebrews 9:4bthe Covenant box all covered with gold and containing the gold jar with the Manna in it, AARON'S STICK that had sprouted leaves, and the TWO STONE TABLETS with the COMMANDMENTS written on them. Jesus says he is the real Manna (bread from heaven) see John 6 AARON'S STICK that budded in Numbers 16 shows authority or high priest.. JESUS is our high priest see Heb 7: 26 The tablets of the commandments are God's word written on stones see Ex 19 & 20, Jesus is the Word made flesh... see john 1:14... All these were Old testament symbols or types of Jesus contained In a box that was REVERED, Now Jesus himself takes flesh in a New Ark (Mary) and She is not given any reverence.. Heb 8:15 and col 2:17 said old testament things are shadows of the things to come in and through Christ.. People who opened the Old Ark or touch it died (seventy people of Beth Shemesh and Uzzah) see 1 Sam 6:19 and 2 Sam 6:7... IF this is a shadow how much reverence should we give to the "Ark" who bore the "Real" Jesus |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by Ubenedictus(m): 4:47pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
dolphinheart:gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by Ubenedictus(m): 4:54pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
Sarassin:ADELPHOS IS ALSO USED LOSELY IN D NT. Acts 2:37 ► Parallel Verses New International Version When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by LDaVinci: 5:12pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
Ubenedictus: So you really believe that women get impregnated by the Holy Spirit? What sort of ra.ping Holy Spirit is this? Would you accept this explanation from your daughter for example? |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by Ubenedictus(m): 5:33pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
LDaVinci:What do u understand by d term rape? |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by LDaVinci: 6:31pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
Ubenedictus: "unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the victim." http://www.dictionary.com/browse/rape Thus I say to you that the alleged act of the Holy Spirit was an act of rape no different from the acts of the Angels of the Old Testament who allegedly slept with mortal women and gave birth to god-men. Exactly the same case here, as Jesus is called a God-Man, no? As such, you worship a rapist. It also means that Jesus was a bastard. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/bastard?s=t In fact you have inspired me to open a thread. https://www.nairaland.com/3535606/acts-murderer-rapist-bastard#52200536 |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by Nobody: 7:03pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
John the baptist is greater than Mary! Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. And yet John is not worthy to lose the latchet of Jesus' shoe. Mary was just a dirty sinner like everyone else who was saved by God's grace alone Only Jesus can save you surrender to him! |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by LDaVinci: 7:30pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
solite3: And a clear fornicator and liar as she slept with someone else, got pregnant and lied to Joseph about Yahweh raping her |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by Nobody: 8:05pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
LDaVinci:may God have mercy on you. You can't continue like this surrender your life to God before its too late |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by easymancfc(m): 8:23pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
I guess John the Baptist is greater than Jesus too because he was also born of a woman according to you.. gal 4:4 But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law. Concerning Mary yes She was saved by God's grace that is what the Catholic Church teaches... according to the Bible.... and according to the Bible she is the only human HAILED by an Angel and the first person the Bible calls FULL OF GRACE.. luke 1:28χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη, ὁ κύριος μετὰ σοῦ. Chaire, kecharitōmenē, ho kyrios meta sou! Hail, "Full of Grace," the Lord is with you! Elizabeth said to her also luke 1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby moved within her. Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and said in a loud voice, “You are the most blessed of all women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 Why should this great thing happen to me, that my Lord's mother comes to visit me? Elizabeth said all these things under the power of the Holy Spirit... if the Angel Gabriel and the Holy Spirit respected and honour her and you want to insult and degrade her then that is left for you... the Bible also says that all generations will call her blessed.. Luke 1:48 for he has been mindful of the humble state of his servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed,.. All this Is scriptural yet "Bible Christians" ignore it... Ask yourself this question, Did Jesus honour his mother? I mean he should obey his own command exodus 20:12 “Respect your father and your MOTHER, so that you may live a long time in the land that I am giving you. even ordinary humans don't like people speaking ill of their mother. how much more Jesus himself.. |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by easymancfc(m): 8:32pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
concerning Mathew 1:25, Scripture’s statement that Joseph "knew [Mary] not until she brought forth her firstborn" would not necessarily mean they did "know" each other after she brought forth Jesus. Until is often used in Scripture as part of an idiomatic expression similar to our own usage in English. I may say to you, "Until we meet again, God bless you." Does that necessarily mean after we meet again, God curse you? By no means. A phrase like this is used to emphasize what is being described before the until is fulfilled. It is not intended to say anything about the future beyond that point. Here are some biblical examples: 2 Samuel 6:23: And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to ( until) the day of her death. (Does this mean she had children after she died?) 1 Timothy 4:13: Until I come, attend to the public reading of scripture, to preaching, to teaching. (Does this mean Timothy should stop teaching after Paul comes?) 1 Corinthians 15:25: For he (Christ) must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (Does this mean Christ’s reign will end? By no means! Luke 1:33 says, "he will reign over the house of Jacob forever and of his kingdom there shall be no end." |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by easymancfc(m): 8:55pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
About Mary being a liar and fornicator... in that case you are calling the Old testament prophets, the Angel Gabriel, St Luke, the Whole Bible and even God a liar with your statement about Mary.. Old testament prophets Isaiah 7:14 Well then, the Lord himself will give you a sign: a young woman who is pregnant will have a son and will name him ‘Immanuel.’ see also mat 1:23 Isaiah 9:6 A child is born to us! A son is given to us! And he will be our ruler. He will be called, “Wonderful Counselor,” “Mighty God,” “Eternal Father,” “Prince of Peace.” 7 His royal power will continue to grow; his kingdom will always be at peace. He will rule as King David's successor, basing his power on right and justice, from now until the end of time. The Lord Almighty is determined to do all this. Micah 5:2 says: "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times." The story of Jesus’ birth in Bethlehem is told in the New Testament books of Mathew, Luke, and John. Numbers: 24:17 says: "A star will come out of Jacob; a scepter will rise out of Israel." The genealogy of Jesus laid out in the book of Matthew details Jesus lineage through Isaac and Jacob. Luke 1: 30 The angel said to her, “Don't be afraid, Mary; God has been gracious to you. 31 You will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and you will name him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High God. The Lord God will make him a king, as his ancestor David was, 33 and he will be the king of the descendants of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end!” 34 Mary said to the angel, “I am a virgin. How, then, can this be?” 35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and God's power will rest upon you. For this reason the holy child will be called the Son of God. Luke 1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby moved within her. Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and said in a loud voice, “You are the most blessed of all women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 Why should this great thing happen to me, that my Lord's mother comes to visit me? I can understand if you hate the Catholic Church but don't blaspheme by calling the Holy Spirit, Scriptures and even God himself a liar.. Unless you are a Muslim or maybe a Jw.. not to offend anyone |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by Nobody: 7:16am On Dec 24, 2016 |
author=easymancfc post=52202556 ]I guess John the Baptist is greater than Jesus too because he was also born of a woman according to you..the bible is clear enough Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not[b] risen[/b] a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. @bold, past participle was used, showing you that the time period Jesus was talking about was from the time John the baptist backward to Adam. Jesus was born after John had been born so it does not include Jesus. Concerning Mary yes She was saved by God's grace that is what the Catholic Church teaches... according to the Bible.... and according to the Bible she is the only human HAILED by an Angel and the first person the Bible calls FULL OF GRACE..If Mary was saved by grace then it is no more of her righteousness or holiness but purely of God's mercies. It also mean Mary was just an ordinary human being like us. so her eternal virginity is inconsequential and of no relevance, of cause Mary married and had other children. The child in Elizabeth did not leap for Joy because of Mary but because of Jesus. Jesus would still have been born without Mary but Mary cannot be saved without Jesus. Jesus honored both Joseph and Mary on erthly issues because they were his parent but when it come to his heavenly father's business Mary was treated like every other person. In heaven it is Mary that will be honoring and worshipping Jesus. Mary is no more special than any Christian for Jesus himself called those who listens and do his words his mother and brethren. Pls show me where I insulted Mary? |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by easymancfc(m): 8:07am On Dec 24, 2016 |
#Mary is more special than every other Christian according to the Bible because She was the only human GREETED, and called FULL OF GRACE.. see luke 1:28χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη, ὁ κύριοςμετὰ σοῦ.Chaire, kecharitōmenē, ho kyrios meta sou!Hail, "Full of Grace," the Lord is with you! She is called BLESSED among women by the Holy Spirit through Elizabeth, Elizabeth said to her als oluke 1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby moved within her. Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and said in a loud voice, “You are the most blessed of all women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 Why should this great thing happen to me, that my Lord's mother comes to visit me? The Baby leaped when his Mother heard MARY'S VOICE, yes it is because of Jesus but the Baby leaped when his mother heard Mary's Voice and the Holy Spirit lead Elizabeth also to call Mary according to Luke 1:43 Why should this great thing happen to me, that my LORD'S MOTHER comes to visit me? Elizabeth realized that it was a great thing for Mary to visit her.. HER ETERNAL VIRGINITY IS OF GREAT CONSEQUENCE BECAUSE IT POINTS FURTHER TO JESUS DIVINITY UNLESS YOU THINK JESUS IS NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH TO CONSECRATE HER TO HIMSELF AFTER SHE BORE HIM |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by easymancfc(m): 8:35am On Dec 24, 2016 |
on the Lord's Brothers you quote Mathew 13:55 because it agrees with you but forget about the other verses that contradict or throw more light it says James and Joseph, Simon and Judas are Jesus's brothers Now let's look at other verses Mathew 27:55 There were many women there, looking on from a distance, who had followed Jesus from Galilee and helped him. 56 Among them were Mary Magdalene, MARY the MOTHER of JAMES and JOSEPH, and the wife of Zebedee. Mark 15:40 Some women were there, looking on from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, MARY the MOTHER of the YOUNGER JAMES and of YOURSELF, and SALOME. Mark 16:1After the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, MARY the mother of JAMES, and SALOME bought spices to go and anoint the body of Jesus. Note this Mary Is not the LORD'S MOTHER because the Bible addresses her as the LORD's MOTHER ( See Luke 1: John 19) in John"s account we see other Mary's with the LORD'S MOTHER, whom John calls his mother's "Sister" whose Children can also be called Jesus's brothers and sisters and she herself can be informally called his MOTHER.. John 19:25 Then look at what John says: "But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene" NOTE THAT IN ALL THE BIBLE ACCOUNT MARY THE MOTHER OF JESUS IS NEVER DIRECTLY CALLED JESUS'S BROTHERS MOTHER. Now let's look at Jude 1:1 From JUDE, SERVANT of JESUS CHRIST, and BROTHER of JAMES— see Mathew 13:55, Mark 15:40... NOTICE HE DOESN'T CALL HIMSELF JESUS BROTHER WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY APPROPRIATE INSTEAD HE RECOGNIZES ONLY JAMES RIGHTLY.. Besides from the story of luke 2 When Jesus was found in the Temple at age twelve, the context suggests that he was the only son of Mary and Joseph. There is no hint in this episode of any other children in the family (Luke 2:41–51). Jesus grew up in Nazareth, and the people of Nazareth referred to him as "the son of Mary" (Mark 6:3), not as " a son of Mary." In fact, others in the Gospels are never referred to as Mary’s sons, not even when they are called Jesus’ "brethren." If they were in fact her sons, this would be strange usage. |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by easymancfc(m): 8:46am On Dec 24, 2016 |
On being married to Joseph... Why did Mary marry Joseph if she would not bear any children for him.. or was consecrated to God as a virgin.... First, as Matthew points out in his genealogy in chapter 1, Joseph was in line to be a successor of David as King of Israel. Thus, if Jesus was to be the true "son of David" and king of Israel (see 2 Sm 7:14, Heb 1:5, Rv 19:16, 22:16), he needed to be the son of Joseph. As the only son of Joseph, even though adopted, he would have been in line for the throne. Also, in a culture that did not take too kindly to espoused women getting pregnant by someone other than their spouse, Mary would have been in mortal danger according to the Law (stoned/killed see Leviticus 20:10-). So Joseph by God's divine wisdom became Mary’s earthly spouse and protector as well as the protector of the child Jesus to protect Mary from being called a "Harlot" who got pregnant for someone else before she was supposed to Mary another (imagine the scandal ) and to protect Jesus image of not being called a bastard.. . |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by Nobody: 12:37pm On Dec 24, 2016 |
[ author=easymancfc post=52212054] #Mary is more special than every other Christian according to the Bible becauseshe is called BLESSED among women not MOST BLESSED. Jesus himself she's you that John is the greatest person that has ever risen go and argue with Jesus I only re echoed his words. Abraham is called the father of all nations and the father of faith meaning Abraham is greater than Mary also Sarah is the mother of the nation Israel including Mary, Deborah is called mother in Israel, enoch , Elijah, moses, etc what of Gideon that the angel greeted the Lord is with thee mighty man of valour. These people are all great. Nope Mary is no greater than any christian for even the lest christian is greater than John the baptist who himself is greater than everyone who came before him including Mary. Mary is a great woman don't get me wrong but not the greatest. Elizabeth said to her als oluke 1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby moved within her. Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and said in a loud voice, “You are the most blessed of all women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 Why should this great thing happen to me, that my Lord's mother comes to visit me?thank God you agreed that the baby leaped not because of Mary but because of Jesus. Jesus is all that matters HER ETERNAL VIRGINITY IS OF GREAT CONSEQUENCE BECAUSE IT POINTS FURTHER TO JESUS DIVINITY UNLESS YOU THINK JESUS IS NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH TO CONSECRATE HER TO HIMSELF AFTER SHE BORE HIMpls explain how Mary's eternal virginity establish Christ divinity. Remember Jesus came to serve and not to be served so for what use will Christ consecrating Mary be to christ? Mary is only Christ mother in the flesh nothing more. |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by Ubenedictus(m): 12:48pm On Dec 24, 2016 |
LDaVinci:WITHOUT CONSENT? |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by easymancfc(m): 1:17pm On Dec 24, 2016 |
you said the least Christian is greater than John... Mary was a Christian... some might say the first Christian... because she was the first to believe in Jesus... She was there when he was born, and was with him when he died ... by that then... according to you... she is greater than John, who according to you also is greater than all the old testament people... Again How many of those People (Abraham, Sarah etc) gave birth to Jesus? mat 11:11 doesn't say only those who came before him, don't bend it to suit yourself, it simply says Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. what this simply means is that all who have lived or are alive born of a woman... non is greater than John... Jesus is alive or lived during John's time, and he was born of a woman... according to Galatians 4:4... So by your definition he is also greater than Jesus... Don't try to paint it... Yes... Jesus is greater than Joseph his Foster father so his Purpose of making her a virgin perpetually to suit his divine purpose outweighs the necessity of Joseph having children... if Jesus wants Mary's womb to be only for him... so it must be regardless of Joseph's progeny or desires.... unless you think he is not powerful enough to do it 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by Nobody: 2:19pm On Dec 24, 2016 |
You said Mary is a christian by believing in Christ yes you are right. Mary was great not because she gave birth to Jesus but because she believed in Jesus hence her eternal virginity is irrelevant. John said he was not worthy to unlose Jesus shoe latchet. Abraham gave birth to Mary do you know that? So Jesus is the seed of Abraham. Can you tell me the divine purpose of Mary being an eternal virgin? Joseph having children is a divine commandment do u think God will break his own word by making Mary eternal virgin? Joseph was married to Mary and as the head of Mary he had right over the body of Mary do you know that? Why would Jesus who was already born want the womb of Mary again? I m not saying Jesus is not powerful enough to do it but doing it will contradict his word and there is no reason for him to do it and above all he never did it. You are only wishing but the reality is Mary married Joseph and gave birth to children. |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by easymancfc(m): 5:32pm On Dec 24, 2016 |
Every Human can indirectly trace their lineage to Abraham... Again Mary was the only one. (not even Abraham) who actually carried Jesus in her Womb, nursed him, and took care of him... of other person can make that claim.....doing it with not contradict his word... He himself was not married so you might say he is contradicting his word by not having children, Paul was not married, see 1 cor 7, was he contradicting Jesus? Mary married Joseph not necessarily for having children this is the main reason why Joseph married Mary First, as Matthew points out in his genealogy in chapter 1, Joseph was in line to be a successor of David as King ofIsrael. Thus, if Jesus was to be the true"son of David" and king of Israel (see 2 Sm 7:14, Heb 1:5, Rv 19:16, 22:16), he needed to be the son of Joseph. As the only son of Joseph, even thoughadopted, he would have been in line for the throne. Also, in a culture that did nottake too kindly to espoused women getting pregnant by someone other thantheir spouse, Mary would have been in mortal danger according to the Law (stoned/killed see Leviticus 20:10-). So Joseph by God's divine wisdom becameMary’s earthly spouse and protector as well as the protector of the child Jesus to protect Mary from being called a"Harlot" who got pregnant for someone else before she was supposed to Mary another (imagine the scandal ) and to protect Jesus image of not being called a bastard.. NOT TO BE BABY FACTORY FOR HIM |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by Nobody: 8:13pm On Dec 24, 2016 |
[quote author=easymancfc post=52225056] Every Human can indirectly trace their lineage to Abraham... Again Mary was the only one. (not even Abraham) who actually carried Jesus in her Womb, nursed him, and took care of him... of other person can make that claim.....doing it with not contradict his word... He himself was not married so you might say he is contradicting his word by not having children, Paul was not married, see 1 cor 7, was he contradicting Jesus? Mary married Joseph not necessarily for having childrenfirst you can't compare Mary to Paul or Jesus. Jesus and Paul never got married so the issue of giving birth is ruled out but Mary was espoused to Joseph. there was no plan for Mary never to have children. Oga not everyone can trace their lineage to Abraham only Ismael and the children of Isaac can. this is the main reason why Joseph married MaryJoseph intention for Mary was to Marry her and have children. He was not aware of any plan that Mary is not going to be eternal virgin. Remember Jesus was not a seed of Joseph so it is impossible for Jesus to be called the seed of david through Joseph but through Mary Jesus is the seed of david but Luke attributed it to joseph. God does not require Mary to be eternal virgin to him God. Every husband is a protector of his wife. Mary giving birth to children does not stop Joseph from being the protector of Mary and does not make Mary any less neither does it reduce the divinity of Christ. Is it wrong for women to give birth to children? |
Re: Joseph "Had Relations" With Mary, My Response by easymancfc(m): 8:51pm On Dec 25, 2016 |
I MEANT EVERY ISREALITE NOT EVERY HUMAN... every human traces theirs to Adam and Eve... Pardon the Error I know Paul and Jesus didn't get married, was just using that to prove a point that having children is not man's ultimate purpose .... Concerning Jesus getting his "Son of David" title from Mary... that's unbiblical because according to Mathew his ancestry was traced through Joseph not Mary... Mat 1: 1This is the list of the ANCESTORS OF JESUS CHRIST, a descendant of David, who was a descendant of Abraham. 2-6 From Abraham to King David, the following ancestors are listed: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah and his brothers; then Perez and Zerah (their mother was Tamar), Hezron, Ram, Amminadab, Nahshon, Salmon, Boaz (his mother was Rahab), Obed (his mother was Ruth), Jesse, and King David. 7-11 From David to the time when the people of Israel were taken into exile in Babylon, the following ancestors are listed: David, Solomon (his mother was the woman who had been Uriah's wife), Rehoboam, Abijah, Asa, Jehoshaphat, Jehoram, Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, Hezekiah, Manasseh, Amon, Josiah, and Jehoiachin and his brothers. 12-16 From the time after the exile in Babylon to the birth of Jesus, the following ancestors are listed: Jehoiachin, Shealtiel, Zerubbabel, Abiud, Eliakim, Azor, Zadok, Achim, Eliud, Eleazar, Matthan, Jacob, and JOSEPH, who married Mary, the mother of Jesus, who was called the Messiah. It is not wrong for women to have Children.. but not all women married or otherwise have children in their lifetime... Again Which Purpose is Greater God's Honour by keeping Mary wombs for himself Only or Joseph having children I MEAN EVEN FOOTBALL CLUBS RETIRE JERSEY NUMBERS FOR GREAT PLAYERS... WHY CAN'T GOD RETIRE MARY'S WOMB FOR HIMSELF.. IS IT SO DIFFICULT |
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