Edenoscar:


Wait, in summary what you're saying is that experiences you have'nt had are all illusion.?

In a way , yes.

If you haven't been to the city of Paris, everything, every fantasy you have about the city of Paris are mere illusions, until such a time that you have the experience of visiting or being in Paris.
Same thing with NEW York city, or Hollywood.

plaetton:


Correction:

Even the idea that Deepsight is real is also illusion.
Deepsight is actually an illusion.
Deepsight is a fake name.

For all we know, anyone of the 7 billion people on Earth could be masquerading as Nairaland Deepsight.
In fact, we cannot even rule out the fact that Deepsight might be posting threads from another planet or Galaxy system.

I mean, his WORD SORCERY is evidence of something spooky and out of this reality.

Lol. Funny. I really don't know about word sorcery. It baffles me that you say it of me. I speak and write plain ordinary and simple words.

Now, more seriously:

1. A person called Deep Sight exists: be it his birth name or his online name regardless
2. However the person called Deep Sight by himself cannot know whether his existence in this world is a simulation or not

~

3. Other persons who independently verify his existence may know that he exists

~
4. But the said other persons may not know whether they are experiencing a simulation or reality

Now, note carefully that all of this would be unimportant if this were the permanent state of our existence: we could then regardless take it to be our reality no matter what: but the puzzling fact that we must (one and all) one day frizzle up and suddenly lie inert and rot away into the ground and air bestirs a deeper cognition: namely the cognition that our current form is not all that there is to our existence.

plaetton:

In a way , yes.

If you haven't been to the city of Paris, everything, every fantasy you have about the city of Paris are mere illusions, until such a time that you have the experience of visiting or being in Paris.
Same thing with NEW York city, or Hollywood.

No, really they are imaginations or projections of what Paris might be like.

You still have not got the point: get it now:
An illusion would be actually visiting Paris - but understanding that what one sees and perceives is actually a simulation. Its not really there. It's an existential illusion. The existential illusion we live in prior to death.

.[/sup]
Illusion

Psychology. a perception, as of visual stimuli (optical
illusion) that represents what is perceived in a way
different from the way it is in reality.
.[/sup]


Synonym

aberration, fantasy, chimera. illusion, hallucination,
delusion refer to false perceptions or ideas. An illusion is a false mental image produced by misinterpretation of things that actually exist: A mirage is an illusion produced by reflection of light against the sky. A hallucination is a perception of a thing or quality that has no physical counterpart: Under the influence of LSD, Terry had hallucinations that the living-room floor was rippling. A
delusion is a persistent false belief: A paranoiac has delusions of persecution..[/sup]

DeepSight:

I have been discussing the idea that we live in a simulated reality for some time: an illusion of sorts.

Although i haven't read your prior writings on this topic.
But on the basis of your assertion above, are you of the opinion that in deed, our perceived reality, is an illusion that's being observed by transcendental consciousness?

Illusion of disbelief of existence of God?

Revelation1:
Illusion of disbelief of existence of God?

While i await the reply of the Op.
May i ask you, how is lack of belief in god an illusion? If that's your insinuation.

akintom:


While i await the reply of the Op.
May i ask you, how is lack of belief in god an illusion? If that's your insinuation.

Yes it an illusion since you have found the evidence nor proof to back it up.

Revelation1:
Yes it an illusion since you have found the evidence nor proof to back it up.

I want to assume you have read the definitions of illusion, that i posted here earlier.

Now, if you claim that there exist something you call god, it's you who will first prove its existence as REAL, after this i shall either agree it exist or not, based on your presented evidence.

akintom:


I want to assume you have read the definitions of illusion, that i posted here earlier.

Now, if you claim that there exist something you call god, it's you who will first prove its existence as REAL, after this i shall either agree it exist or not, based on your presented evidence.

Even Philospher David's son acknowledged the fact that God exist. If you think that God doesnt exist where do you think those men of God are getting their powers from? Could it be satan since? if God doesnt exist then the same thing thing can be said about satan. Only a fool will doubt the existence of God when there is a clear evidence.

akintom:


Although i haven't read your prior writings on this topic.
But on the basis of your assertion above, are you of the opinion that in deed, our perceived reality, is an illusion that's being observed by transcendental consciousness?

Use your hands to touch your physical head. Touch it all round - from the back of your head, to your ears, to the top of your head, then to your temples, feel your eyes, nose, lips and chin. Circle the jaws and back to the back of your head.

What have you just touched and groped?

A Visor.
A helmet-like instrument designed to help the being within perceive its outer physical world.
This object will be taken off at death along with the rest of the instrument - the body: and the real being will exist in its real transcendental reality.

This is virtual reality. A simulated game we enter into at birth and be done with at death. Nothing you see in this world is real. It's all a simulation which we will step out of at death.

Revelation1:
Even Philospher David's son acknowledged the fact that God exist. If you think that God doesnt exist where do you think those men of God are getting their powers from? Could it be satan since? if God doesnt exist then the same thing thing can be said about satan. Only a fool will doubt the existence of God when there is a clear evidence.

I agree with the last line of what you have written, but please I have to ask you politely: go away from this thread.

DeepSight:


I agree with the last line of what you have written, but please I have to ask you politely: go away from this thread.

Why?

Revelation1:
Even Philospher David's son acknowledged the fact that God exist. If you think that God doesnt exist where do you think those men of God are getting their powers from? Could it be satan since? if God doesnt exist then the same thing thing can be said about satan. Only a fool will doubt the existence of God when there is a clear evidence.

Simple task for now is present the evidence here and now.

DeepSight:


Use your hands to touch your physical head. Touch it all round - from the back of your head, to your ears, to the top of your head, then to your temples, feel your eyes, nose, lips and chin. Circle the jaws and back to the back of your head.

What have you just touched and groped?

A Visor.
A helmet-like instrument designed to help the being within perceive its outer physical world.
This object will be taken off at death along with the rest of the instrument - the body: and the real being will exist in its real transcendental reality.

This is virtual reality. A simulated game we enter into at birth and be done with at death. Nothing you see in this world is real. It's all a simulation which we will step out of at death.

I certainly find this interesting. And pretty sure it's coming from a knowledge base that's not close to Christian religion.

May i know, from which knowledge base are you speaking from?

Revelation1:
Why?

You are about to contaminate the refined thoughts I want to distill and engage with here, with horrible arguments like this:

Revelation1:
If you think that God doesnt exist where do you think those men of God are getting their powers from? Could it be satan since?

Remain only if you desist. Otherwise go away.

urheme:


longest time Ma.

good to have you here.

Who is this?

plaetton:


Compliments of the season, my fair Madame.

We have missed you here.

I have been missing any kind of intelligent discussion on NL. I was about to give up all together.

Good to hear from you plaetton.

DeepSight
A helmet-like instrument designed to help the being within perceive its outer physical world.
This object will be taken off at death along with the rest of the instrument - the body: and the real being will exist in its real transcendental reality.

This is virtual reality. A simulated game we enter into at birth and be done with at death. Nothing you see in this world is real. It's all a simulation which we will step out of at death.

So true. so you should tell us how to come to this realization.

I believe that entry into this world through birth is getting into the grip of a power. That power is called death, and it's the power that holds matter in their physical, tangible state, including living matter, and holds them in that capsule that is their body. What we call death is the end of that state.

When under the power of death, everything is static, limited and walled up. The illusion that becomes our reality.

DeepSight:


You are about to contaminate the refined thoughts I want to distill and engage with here, with horrible arguments like this:



Remain only if you desist. Otherwise go away.

Lol.

Contamination indeed.

DeepSight:


Use your hands to touch your physical head. Touch it all round - from the back of your head, to your ears, to the top of your head, then to your temples, feel your eyes, nose, lips and chin. Circle the jaws and back to the back of your head.

What have you just touched and groped?

A Visor.
A helmet-like instrument designed to help the being within perceive its outer physical world.
This object will be taken off at death along with the rest of the instrument - the body: and the real being will exist in its real transcendental reality.

This is virtual reality. A simulated game we enter into at birth and be done with at death. Nothing you see in this world is real. It's all a simulation which we will step out of at death.

Sounds romantic. Sounds reasonable.

But, but there is no evidence for your assertions, if I may call them that.

Until such a time that we have evidence, the above are nothing but speculations, just another subset of illusions that you are attempting to create.

It's very important , my wordy friend, to be clear about your own thoughts, speculations, hypothesis, etc, about the UNKNOWNS, and what are evidence based KNOWNS.

plaetton:


Sounds romantic. Sounds reasonable.

But, but there is no evidence for your assertions, if I may call them that.

Until such a time that we have evidence, the above are nothing but speculations, just another subset of illusions that you are attempting to create.

It's very important , my wordy friend, to be clear about your own thoughts, speculations, hypothesis, etc, about the UNKNOWNS, and what are evidence based KNOWNS.

I asked the OP the knowledge Base of his 'refined thoughts', he hasn't responded.

akintom:

I asked the OP the knowledge Base of his 'refined thoughts', he hasn't responded.

Yeah.

He forgets that all of the world's Religions were built on such fanciful, romantic and grandiose speculations and wishful thinking about the origins of life, the purpose of life, death and the after-life( the after-death, to be more correct. )

plaetton:

Yeah.

He forgets that all of the world's Religions were built on such fanciful, romantic and grandiose speculations and wishful thinking about the origins of life, the purpose of life, death and the after-life( the after-death, to be more correct. )

The grammatical opulence of the OP is leaning towards that of eck or grailmessage.

plaetton:


What I am saying, which I trust that you fully understand, is that something like death, the cessation of life, what happens at moment of death , and afterwards, cannot be fully explained until an individual experiences the very phenomenon of death.

I find it interesting that a man who claims to believe in logic and science would make such a statement as the bolded. Life, in its simplest form, is energy. Energy never ceases to exist. It simply changes form. So why do you believe we cease. Is it not logic to believe we continue in another form?

plaetton:

Everything woven around the phenomenon are simply legends, myths and illusions.

Simple science can be applied here to deduce the outcome. Since spiritual energy cannot be quantified, in the end, I suppose, technically this theory is only hypothesis till it can be proven. In which case, it can only be proven in death. Anyway, logic and science still have sway here.

plaetton:

For example, I imagine you as a lanky, tall, dark complexion man with a slightly receding hairline. I imagine you to be somewhat snobbish and introverted , until you reach a level of comfort with people , before you liven up to unleash your WORD SORCERY on hapless souls.
Deepsight is real.
But these are my illusions of Deepsight.

Only the EXPERIENCE of meeting you in person would prove these illusions right or completely wrong.

So close, and yet so far.

plaetton:

In a way , yes.

If you haven't been to the city of Paris, everything, every fantasy you have about the city of Paris are mere illusions, until such a time that you have the experience of visiting or being in Paris.
Same thing with NEW York city, or Hollywood.

I think you are confusing illusion and fantasy. Paris is not an illusion. It is, in fact, a real place. I'm not sure this is the best example to use to prove your point.

DeepSight:


No, really they are imaginations or projections of what Paris might be like.

You still have not got the point: get it now:
An illusion would be actually visiting Paris- but understanding that what one sees and perceives is actually a simulation. Its not really there. It's an existential illusion. The existential illusion we live in prior to death.

Somehow when existentialism becomes all consuming, we forget to "live" and begin to only exist.

Even if life itself is only and illusion, it is still the "reality" we currently find ourselves in. Isn't it then wiser to attend to living in this reality? If only, for nothing else but to save our own sanity.

If we are, as you seem to think, just a lab experiment, why simply exist to eventually die? Why not live? Who's to say our observers do not wish us well? Perhaps those who fail to flourish in this illusion are merely "failed experiments".

plaetton:


Sounds romantic. Sounds reasonable.

But, but there is no evidence for your assertions, if I may call them that.

Until such a time that we have evidence, the above are nothing but speculations, just another subset of illusions that you are attempting to create.

It's very important , my wordy friend, to be clear about your own thoughts, speculations, hypothesis, etc, about the UNKNOWNS, and what are evidence based KNOWNS.

He is saying, in my understanding, you are not your physical body. Your body is just a temple housing a being. The being is the consciousness, your thoughts, beliefs, understanding. The body remaining the only vessel in which your consciousness can exist in this life time, till death.

akintom:


The grammatical opulence of the OP is leaning towards that of eck or grailmessage.

Obviously, yes.
He has partaken of that mishmash of philosophies , where simple essential truths are given false twists and turns.

In the end , they become as much confusing as the blind faith they claim to supplant.

Muafrika2:

He is saying, in my understanding, you are not your physical body. Your body is just a temple housing a being. The being is the consciousness, your thoughts, beliefs, understanding. The body remaining the only vessel in which your consciousness can exist in this life time, till death.

And again, these are nothing but romantic fantasies, offering no evidence.

Consciousness develops within, with the body, not prior to the body.
Likewise, our thoughts, beliefs, knowledge and understanding develop from the simple, and then continually evolve and become more complex as the body grows and matures.

DeepSight:


This is a most important point you have made I think.



Time is indeed a great mystery: however I will offer what has been my own definition of time (and space), which I believe is reasonable and sufficient for the purpose of this discussion:

~ Time is the infinite continuum into which events are interpolated

In the same way, Space for me is -

~ The infinite field into which objects are interpolated



Going with the above definitions I do not think that real existential time is susceptible to manipulation, however the perception, observation or experience of it is highly subjective and indeed susceptible to manipulation. These are my thoughts only.



Real Space does not expand, as it is an infinite field already as I said. What seems to expand are the the positions of the objects within the infinite field that is called space.



That a multiverse or even infinitverse exists, i take for granted, but this presents even more questions than any answer.



In terms of the nature of our individual realities I think this is correct. Perhaps that every single choice leads you to live in a range of happenings on a different dimension of reality created by that choice.



This I do not know. . .
However I will say that there are several esoteric arts and sciences by which human beings already transcend and observe the worlds, dimensions, universes and realities. The orthodox sciences disdain these for the most part though, and this is something that will have to evolve and change before mankind grows into the next level of his experience in the universe.

DeepSight:

Real Space does not expand, as it is an infinite field already as I said. What seems to expand are the the positions of the objects within the infinite field that is called space.

@ DeepSight

The above extract from your post is an exciting piece of observation that is very much appreciated.

Well, the possible questions that would have arises, you have nipped them already.

1. One would have asked, if the universe does not expand, is it bounded?
However, you posited that it is infinite.

Curiosity though would push one to ask again:

2. how did it(the universe that is) get to this infinite state?

Well, the possible questions are also infinite.

Can the absolute answers be gotten?
Your guess is as good as mine.

Like I had said before, Your observation above definitely does resonates with me for one.

Peace.

plaetton:

Each experience adds something ' other' that was not previously there.

A conscious being or mind cannot stand outside of time and space, for the simple reason that it would be devoid of experience. And without the flux of interactive information, there cannot be experience, and there cannot be consciousness.

Sounds confusing, even to me.
But then, it is a deep and confusing subject.

The above is not confusing at all.

Garnering of experience is a function of time.

So, your deduction that outside of time there will be no experience hence, consciousness as we know it would be affected.

I preferred using the word affected rather than the absolute of saying "no consciousness", since a new born child may not have had 'experience' as we know it but it is all the same a conscious person.

One can argue that the new born is not quite new since it spent 9months in the worm being programmed. I agree.

All am saying is that: experience and time cannot be separated.

Looking at experience as information cum harnessing data, data has a rate of flow that is proportional to Time.

no time laps no data.

Peace.

plaetton:

Yeah.

He forgets that all of the world's Religions were built on such fanciful, romantic and grandiose speculations and wishful thinking about the origins of life, the purpose of life, death and the after-life( the after-death, to be more correct. )

The Oxymoron and illogicality of the "After death".

Just imagined that!

'Death' a word coined to signifies the cessation of an entity is now forced to connotes a continuation of it.

Why not replace the word death all together @ DeepSight?

texanomaly:


I find it interesting that a man who claims to believe in logic and science would make such a statement as the bolded. Life, in its simplest form, is energy. Energy never ceases to exist. It simply changes form. So why do you believe we cease. Is it not logic to believe we continue in another form?

What part of this "energy" of yours in the human body is there that doesn't change to another form at death from Plaeton's post that you are referring to?

Is it the Body, head, hands and legs?

Or, is it the imaginary part that has no mass purported to indwelling in humans?

So, during the energy transformation, what quantum of Joules of energy do you think that these abstract portion of yours and DeepSight has?

I thought it was immaterial according to DeepSight? If it is supposed to be immaterial, what energy therein do you expect to transform that transformation of energy should apply?

If it is actually a nonexistent energy in reality in terms of real energy, why did you allow such fallacy to sway you to use energy transformation on this argument?

texanomaly:

Simple science can be applied here to deduce the outcome. Since spiritual energy cannot be quantified, in the end, I suppose, technically this theory is only hypothesis till it can be proven. In which case, it can only be proven in death. Anyway, logic and science still have sway here.
.

Very interesting, if science cannot be applied here, what were you about on the energy transformation above?

Should we ignore your earlier argument on energy transformation of the indwelling stuff?

How exactly should we go about it now madam?