₦airaland Forum

abumeinben:
More like who should be the project manager.

And OP you're wrong! Some many structural engineers are project managers.

For this argument, the architect wins. This is it.

An architect has his design and goes to a structural engineer and say "hey bro, I need you to do me calculations about the strengths of materials needed for this design". The engineer does his calculations for every part of the design. But the architect owns the design. The engineer is done when his calculations are done, as long as the structure doesn't collapse.
Just like an Android app, the architect is the app you see on your screen, the engineer is the background process you don't see.

My opinion

adanny01:
The bolded is not completely true.

Every site that requires a structural design requires the supervision of a COREN registered structural engineer who signs an undertaking certificate for the construction site. That makes him responsible for structural collapse. No engineer should sign a structural undertaking for a site without his supervision. His supervision must not entail managing the site but simply ensuring quality control and adherence to design.

adanny01:
The bolded is not completely true.

Every site that requires a structural design requires the supervision of a COREN registered structural engineer who signs an undertaking certificate for the construction site. That makes him responsible for structural collapse. No engineer should sign a structural undertaking for a site without his supervision. His supervision must not entail managing the site but simply ensuring quality control and adherence to design.

abumeinben:
You only expanded my point bro, besides you forgot the part is said "unless there is a collapse".

saydfact:
There is an everyday argument on WHO SHOULD SUPERVISE A BUILDING PROJECT; The Architect, Builder or Civil/Structural Engineer?

Well, before we go into details, I'm sure we all agree the Mechanical Engineer shouldn't be responsible for task of ensuring 'Your Design' comes out as expected - conducive and beautiful (Aesthetics). LoL

Lets define the 3 professions we're considering (in alphabetical order)

A. Architect
According to the English dictionary:

* Architect [n.]: A person skilled in the art of building; one who understands architecture, or makes it his occupation to form plans and designs of buildings, and to superintend the artificers employed.

Lets further look at the meaning of 'SUPERINTEND':

* Superintend [v. t.]: To have or exercise the charge and oversight of; to oversee with the power of direction; to take care of with authority; to supervise; as, an officer superintends the building of a ship or the construction of a fort.

We'll stop here for now, while we get the definition of B & C from the same dictionary.

B. Builder
* Builder [n.]: One who builds; one whose occupation is to build, as a carpenter, a shipwright, or a mason.

this definition in my opinion wasn't fair or deep enough so I looked further down:

* Builder; constructor: someone who contracts for and supervises construction (as of a building)
* Homebuilder; home-builder; housebuilder; house-builder: someone who builds houses as a business

This definitions, almost limits the builder to a business man, (that's not my conclusion) - that's what the dictionary thinks.
we'll also come back to argue this, while we look at the last definition 'C' below.

C. Civil/Structural Engineer

* Structural: affecting or involved in structure or construction (ex.: the structural details of a house such as beams and joists and rafters; not ornamental elements; structural damage)

* Civil engineer: an engineer trained to design and construct and maintain public works (roads or bridges or harbors etc.)

* Civil engineering: the branch of engineering concerned with the design and construction of such public works as dams or bridges

Lets summarize the 3 definition on here; The first mentioned structures but noted that these does not include ornamental elements eg pop designs, tiling etc while the other two (from civil) were silent about buildings. The first conclusion we can draw from this definition is that the Civil Engineer is solely responsible for supervising structures like bridges, roads, dams and he has no competition in those area.

Verdict: The dictionary thinks the Architect is the more appropriate person to supervise the building BUT WE WOULD NOT CONCLUDE HERE.


LETS LOOK AT WIKI DEFINITIONS NOW:

* An architect is someone who plans, designs, and reviews the construction of buildings. To practice architecture means to provide services in connection with the design of buildings and the space within the site surrounding the buildings, that have as their principal purpose human occupancy or use. Etymologically, architect derives from the Latin architectus, which derives from the Greek (arkhi-, chief + tekton, builder), i.e., chief builder

Like in the dictionary definitions; wiki gives so much power to the Architect calling him 'CHIEF' -

* Structural engineering is mainly a sub-division of civil engineering where structural engineers are trained to understand, predict, and calculate the stability, strength and rigidity of built structures for buildings and non-building structures, to develop designs and integrate their design with that of other designers, and to supervise construction of projects on site.

* Builder may refer to:

- Construction worker who specializes in building work
- Carpenter, a skilled craftsman who works with wood
- General contractor, that specializes in building work

Off-course wiki didn't rule out the engineer as a supervisor on site - we can only argue that the website seems to have placed him under a 'chief' - perhaps not, AND except we're biased IT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE that the builder is the least recognized among the three. (No dis-respect meant please)


LETS LOOK AT LOGIC / COMMON REASONING:

Starting with C, B then A.

I'M SURE WE ALL AGREE THAT THE CIVIL/STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS ARE INVOLVED IN DESIGN OF THE STRUCTURAL ELEMENTS EG COLUMNS, BEAMS AND SLAB - BASICALLY HE DESIGNS & RECOMMEND ON ALL STEEL WORKS....If we all agree on the above, then 'my question is; SHOULD THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER BE INVOLVED IN ANY BUILDING THAT DOESN'T HAVE HAVE HIS DESIGN INPUT?

Lets support our claims with the Nigeria Approval Process - When seeking approval for a bungalow, all you're required to submit is an Architectural Plan - You would not be required to submit a structural design / calculation sheet until you start going up with a storey on another.

This means; The only person involved in all types of building (emphasis on BUILDING) is the Architect....


WHO UNDERSTANDS THE BUILDING MORE:

A. The person who designed it OR
B. The person who recommended what strength is required to make it stand
C. The person who only received series of drawings and required to build / supervise it

I'll leave every man to his conclusion here.


ACTUAL PRACTICE:

For those of us working with multi-national company, expatriates or dealing with big organizations have you ever noticed that the PROJECT MANAGERS are always Architects?

This is because of the single rule that Architects are the head of the construction team - I'm yet to come across a Project Managed by an Engineering firm or where the NO1 man on site is the Engineer.

Maybe I've just been on the wrong types of projects - which includes Factories, Warehouses, Mega Stores, Luxury apartment etc.

Could this be a co-incidence?


SO; MY QUESTION STILL IS "WHO SHOULD SUPERVISE A BUILDING PROJECT" well, I'm not ruling out the importance of both the Architect & Engineers especially on very complex structures.


Written and shared by 'SaydFact' on www.nairaland.com and www.palmchatnow.com

adanny01:
There must not be a collapse before the engineer supervises. A designing engineer supervises to prevent collapse from happening so his work does not end with calculations and drafting. Also building regulations require that an engineer must supervise the structure.

flyca:
Supervision is not a one man work. Its usually a cooperation between all the professionals working on the project.

In a consultancy firm that I worked with, there is usually a meeting that comprises everybody involved in the building project. where the given suggestions based on your expertise

saydfact:
There is an everyday argument on WHO SHOULD SUPERVISE A BUILDING PROJECT; The Architect, Builder or Civil/Structural Engineer?

Well, before we go into details, I'm sure we all agree the Mechanical Engineer shouldn't be responsible for task of ensuring 'Your Design' comes out as expected - conducive and beautiful (Aesthetics). LoL

Lets define the 3 professions we're considering (in alphabetical order)

A. Architect
According to the English dictionary:

* Architect [n.]: A person skilled in the art of building; one who understands architecture, or makes it his occupation to form plans and designs of buildings, and to superintend the artificers employed.

Lets further look at the meaning of 'SUPERINTEND':

* Superintend [v. t.]: To have or exercise the charge and oversight of; to oversee with the power of direction; to take care of with authority; to supervise; as, an officer superintends the building of a ship or the construction of a fort.

We'll stop here for now, while we get the definition of B & C from the same dictionary.

B. Builder
* Builder [n.]: One who builds; one whose occupation is to build, as a carpenter, a shipwright, or a mason.

this definition in my opinion wasn't fair or deep enough so I looked further down:

* Builder; constructor: someone who contracts for and supervises construction (as of a building)
* Homebuilder; home-builder; housebuilder; house-builder: someone who builds houses as a business

This definitions, almost limits the builder to a business man, (that's not my conclusion) - that's what the dictionary thinks.
we'll also come back to argue this, while we look at the last definition 'C' below.

C. Civil/Structural Engineer

* Structural: affecting or involved in structure or construction (ex.: the structural details of a house such as beams and joists and rafters; not ornamental elements; structural damage)

* Civil engineer: an engineer trained to design and construct and maintain public works (roads or bridges or harbors etc.)

* Civil engineering: the branch of engineering concerned with the design and construction of such public works as dams or bridges

Lets summarize the 3 definition on here; The first mentioned structures but noted that these does not include ornamental elements eg pop designs, tiling etc while the other two (from civil) were silent about buildings. The first conclusion we can draw from this definition is that the Civil Engineer is solely responsible for supervising structures like bridges, roads, dams and he has no competition in those area.

Verdict: The dictionary thinks the Architect is the more appropriate person to supervise the building BUT WE WOULD NOT CONCLUDE HERE.


LETS LOOK AT WIKI DEFINITIONS NOW:

* An architect is someone who plans, designs, and reviews the construction of buildings. To practice architecture means to provide services in connection with the design of buildings and the space within the site surrounding the buildings, that have as their principal purpose human occupancy or use. Etymologically, architect derives from the Latin architectus, which derives from the Greek (arkhi-, chief + tekton, builder), i.e., chief builder

Like in the dictionary definitions; wiki gives so much power to the Architect calling him 'CHIEF' -

* Structural engineering is mainly a sub-division of civil engineering where structural engineers are trained to understand, predict, and calculate the stability, strength and rigidity of built structures for buildings and non-building structures, to develop designs and integrate their design with that of other designers, and to supervise construction of projects on site.

* Builder may refer to:

- Construction worker who specializes in building work
- Carpenter, a skilled craftsman who works with wood
- General contractor, that specializes in building work

Off-course wiki didn't rule out the engineer as a supervisor on site - we can only argue that the website seems to have placed him under a 'chief' - perhaps not, AND except we're biased IT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE that the builder is the least recognized among the three. (No dis-respect meant please)


LETS LOOK AT LOGIC / COMMON REASONING:

Starting with C, B then A.

I'M SURE WE ALL AGREE THAT THE CIVIL/STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS ARE INVOLVED IN DESIGN OF THE STRUCTURAL ELEMENTS EG COLUMNS, BEAMS AND SLAB - BASICALLY HE DESIGNS & RECOMMEND ON ALL STEEL WORKS....If we all agree on the above, then 'my question is; SHOULD THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER BE INVOLVED IN ANY BUILDING THAT DOESN'T HAVE HAVE HIS DESIGN INPUT?

Lets support our claims with the Nigeria Approval Process - When seeking approval for a bungalow, all you're required to submit is an Architectural Plan - You would not be required to submit a structural design / calculation sheet until you start going up with a storey on another.

This means; The only person involved in all types of building (emphasis on BUILDING) is the Architect....


WHO UNDERSTANDS THE BUILDING MORE:

A. The person who designed it OR
B. The person who recommended what strength is required to make it stand
C. The person who only received series of drawings and required to build / supervise it

I'll leave every man to his conclusion here.


ACTUAL PRACTICE:

For those of us working with multi-national company, expatriates or dealing with big organizations have you ever noticed that the PROJECT MANAGERS are always Architects?

This is because of the single rule that Architects are the head of the construction team - I'm yet to come across a Project Managed by an Engineering firm or where the NO1 man on site is the Engineer.

Maybe I've just been on the wrong types of projects - which includes Factories, Warehouses, Mega Stores, Luxury apartment etc.

Could this be a co-incidence?


SO; MY QUESTION STILL IS "WHO SHOULD SUPERVISE A BUILDING PROJECT" well, I'm not ruling out the importance of both the Architect & Engineers especially on very complex structures.


Written and shared by 'SaydFact' on www.nairaland.com and www.palmchatnow.com

KINGwax007:
Builder. Though, every professional must be invited at the right time.

But as a builder, your main job is a site manager. You must have knowledge of everything being done on-site. Your mission is to interpret the drawing, physically on site.

That is why,

We were being taught accounting
We were being taught structural engineering
We were being taught architectural design
We were being taught electrical technology
We were being taught carpentry works and wood design
We were being taught bricklaying
We were being taught law in contact management
We were being taught building services
We were being taught soil technology
We were being taught land surveying
We were being taught estate management

We must understand everything and everyone...

I can go on and on but why shld I?

You wanna take a dose, go study building technology!

Bit the truth is, the most lucrative among building technology, architecture, structural engineering, estate management and quantity surveying is the last one- Quantity surveying.

I always wished I didn't shed off that course after my ND. But hey, I am a farmer now, a builder, a serial and dynamic entrepreneur. Who cares abt the yeye certificate?









I do

Jammiiee:
Someone must be the head of the unit and who should it be

danemenike:
Very interesting topic I must say. This is my input; Mr. Wilfred wants to build a house, he approaches an architect(first port of call) to get a building drawing(design). The architect interprets the client's desire and reproduces on paper. Architects are like photographers. They read your mind and draw a building plan for you according to specifications and codes. Architects are great people and professionals too, but they've got limitations.

Civil Engineers, It a privilege to have a professional civil Engineer design or build for you. Civil engineers are saddled with the responsibilities of designing and building Bridges, ports, Dam, Highways, high rise buildings e.t.c

Builder, saddled with the responsibility of building. He knows how to interpret building drawings and Structural details. He/she can be likened to an educated chief Foreman. He's the chief design interpreter. He also coordinates all forms of labour on site. The builder in my opinion is an integral part of a building operation.

Here's my opinion on who should supervise a building.

We don't question who should supervise high rise buildings like sky scrapers, 15+ storey building, do we?
We all agree that a Civil Engineer should be in charge.

Then when it comes to ordinary duplex or 3/4 storey building, we're asking who should be in charge? Which is more complex a sky scraper or a duplex? A civil engineer breaths building. He understands the soil, underneath the soil and above the soil. He knows what will make a building stable. It is a rare privilege to have a professional civil engineer build your dream home. This IT age with softwares such as Autocard, Revit, Google Sketch up, Archicard helps just anyone to draw or design a building, but certainly not to detail(structurally) a building.

Engr. Daniel
Terrastone Shelters
07037629947

tankara1010:
Oh Lord....help us in this country because some people are very daft. I'm 100% sure you voted for Buhari with your level of IQ!

danemenike:
Very interesting topic I must say. This is my input; Mr. Wilfred wants to build a house, he approaches an architect(first port of call) to get a building drawing(design). The architect interprets the client's desire and reproduces on paper. Architects are like photographers. They read your mind and draw a building plan for you according to specifications and codes. Architects are great people and professionals too, but they've got limitations.

Civil Engineers, It a privilege to have a professional civil Engineer design or build for you. Civil engineers are saddled with the responsibilities of designing and building Bridges, ports, Dam, Highways, high rise buildings e.t.c

Builder, saddled with the responsibility of building. He knows how to interpret building drawings and Structural details. He/she can be likened to an educated chief Foreman. He's the chief design interpreter. He also coordinates all forms of labour on site. The builder in my opinion is an integral part of a building operation.

Here's my opinion on who should supervise a building.

We don't question who should supervise high rise buildings like sky scrapers, 15+ storey building, do we?
We all agree that a Civil Engineer should be in charge.

Then when it comes to ordinary duplex or 3/4 storey building, we're asking who should be in charge? Which is more complex a sky scraper or a duplex? A civil engineer breaths building. He understands the soil, underneath the soil and above the soil. He knows what will make a building stable. It is a rare privilege to have a professional civil engineer build your dream home. This IT age with softwares such as Autocard, Revit, Google Sketch up, Archicard helps just anyone to draw or design a building, but certainly not to detail(structurally) a building.

Engr. Daniel
Terrastone Shelters
07037629947

saydfact:
There is an everyday argument on WHO SHOULD SUPERVISE A BUILDING PROJECT; The Architect, Builder or Civil/Structural Engineer?

Well, before we go into details, I'm sure we all agree the Mechanical Engineer shouldn't be responsible for task of ensuring 'Your Design' comes out as expected - conducive and beautiful (Aesthetics). LoL

Lets define the 3 professions we're considering (in alphabetical order)

A. Architect
According to the English dictionary:

* Architect [n.]: A person skilled in the art of building; one who understands architecture, or makes it his occupation to form plans and designs of buildings, and to superintend the artificers employed.

Lets further look at the meaning of 'SUPERINTEND':

* Superintend [v. t.]: To have or exercise the charge and oversight of; to oversee with the power of direction; to take care of with authority; to supervise; as, an officer superintends the building of a ship or the construction of a fort.

We'll stop here for now, while we get the definition of B & C from the same dictionary.

B. Builder
* Builder [n.]: One who builds; one whose occupation is to build, as a carpenter, a shipwright, or a mason.

this definition in my opinion wasn't fair or deep enough so I looked further down:

* Builder; constructor: someone who contracts for and supervises construction (as of a building)
* Homebuilder; home-builder; housebuilder; house-builder: someone who builds houses as a business

This definitions, almost limits the builder to a business man, (that's not my conclusion) - that's what the dictionary thinks.
we'll also come back to argue this, while we look at the last definition 'C' below.

C. Civil/Structural Engineer

* Structural: affecting or involved in structure or construction (ex.: the structural details of a house such as beams and joists and rafters; not ornamental elements; structural damage)

* Civil engineer: an engineer trained to design and construct and maintain public works (roads or bridges or harbors etc.)

* Civil engineering: the branch of engineering concerned with the design and construction of such public works as dams or bridges

Lets summarize the 3 definition on here; The first mentioned structures but noted that these does not include ornamental elements eg pop designs, tiling etc while the other two (from civil) were silent about buildings. The first conclusion we can draw from this definition is that the Civil Engineer is solely responsible for supervising structures like bridges, roads, dams and he has no competition in those area.

Verdict: The dictionary thinks the Architect is the more appropriate person to supervise the building BUT WE WOULD NOT CONCLUDE HERE.


LETS LOOK AT WIKI DEFINITIONS NOW:

* An architect is someone who plans, designs, and reviews the construction of buildings. To practice architecture means to provide services in connection with the design of buildings and the space within the site surrounding the buildings, that have as their principal purpose human occupancy or use. Etymologically, architect derives from the Latin architectus, which derives from the Greek (arkhi-, chief + tekton, builder), i.e., chief builder

Like in the dictionary definitions; wiki gives so much power to the Architect calling him 'CHIEF' -

* Structural engineering is mainly a sub-division of civil engineering where structural engineers are trained to understand, predict, and calculate the stability, strength and rigidity of built structures for buildings and non-building structures, to develop designs and integrate their design with that of other designers, and to supervise construction of projects on site.

* Builder may refer to:

- Construction worker who specializes in building work
- Carpenter, a skilled craftsman who works with wood
- General contractor, that specializes in building work

Off-course wiki didn't rule out the engineer as a supervisor on site - we can only argue that the website seems to have placed him under a 'chief' - perhaps not, AND except we're biased IT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE that the builder is the least recognized among the three. (No dis-respect meant please)


LETS LOOK AT LOGIC / COMMON REASONING:

Starting with C, B then A.

I'M SURE WE ALL AGREE THAT THE CIVIL/STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS ARE INVOLVED IN DESIGN OF THE STRUCTURAL ELEMENTS EG COLUMNS, BEAMS AND SLAB - BASICALLY HE DESIGNS & RECOMMEND ON ALL STEEL WORKS....If we all agree on the above, then 'my question is; SHOULD THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER BE INVOLVED IN ANY BUILDING THAT DOESN'T HAVE HAVE HIS DESIGN INPUT?

Lets support our claims with the Nigeria Approval Process - When seeking approval for a bungalow, all you're required to submit is an Architectural Plan - You would not be required to submit a structural design / calculation sheet until you start going up with a storey on another.

This means; The only person involved in all types of building (emphasis on BUILDING) is the Architect....


WHO UNDERSTANDS THE BUILDING MORE:

A. The person who designed it OR
B. The person who recommended what strength is required to make it stand
C. The person who only received series of drawings and required to build / supervise it

I'll leave every man to his conclusion here.


ACTUAL PRACTICE:

For those of us working with multi-national company, expatriates or dealing with big organizations have you ever noticed that the PROJECT MANAGERS are always Architects?

This is because of the single rule that Architects are the head of the construction team - I'm yet to come across a Project Managed by an Engineering firm or where the NO1 man on site is the Engineer.

Maybe I've just been on the wrong types of projects - which includes Factories, Warehouses, Mega Stores, Luxury apartment etc.

Could this be a co-incidence?


SO; MY QUESTION STILL IS "WHO SHOULD SUPERVISE A BUILDING PROJECT" well, I'm not ruling out the importance of both the Architect & Engineers especially on very complex structures.


Written and shared by 'SaydFact' on www.nairaland.com and www.palmchatnow.com

Tpadeoye:
thanks so much for this analysis but I have a question, I read your previous post on cost of materials, workmanship etc which is for 3bedroom does it mean if I'm building 2 detachable flats of 3 bedroom each the money will be double or will it remain the same as it is. Please I need your advise. Thank you.

Salym:
All have different roles they play on a construction site:
The architect is employed by the client. The roles of an architect include:
1 Creation of preliminary drawings
2 [s]Preparation of contract documents
3 Participation in tendering and selection of a winning bid
4 Issuance of instructions on site to the contractor (Instructions must be given before anything is carried out)5
5 Issuance of payment certificates[/s]
6 Ensuring that works done conform to drawings and instruction
7 [s]Preparation of progress report and chairing of meetings in sites without project managers
8 Issuance of final payment certificate after defect liability period[/s]

The roles of an Engineer (Structural)
1 Design structural drawings
2 Issue instructions related to structures
3 Ensure that work done conform to instructions

The builder is usually employed by the contractor. The roles of a builder include:
1 Supervision of tradesmen and ensuring that the architect/engineer's instructions are followed to the latter. It can be said that the builder works directly with artisans on site.
NB. These are mostly the roles on large construction sites. Roles may be altered in smaller sites as the case may be.

asamaigho:
let's not confuse the public with the word "design",....the architectural drawing is a mere picture of the geospatial arrangement of the building, while the civil designs shows the structural arrangements of beams columns,slabs,staircases,and the right quality and quantity of materials that will provide structural stability for the building.
for me a civil/structural engineer should supervise the building processing.
have you ever wondered why an architect is not called to question when a building collapses?

kentochi:
good topic

Obidikejr:
Love this... Civil and Architects been trying to hustle our job since time immemorial.

Bldr.

saydfact:
There is an everyday argument on WHO SHOULD SUPERVISE A BUILDING PROJECT; The Architect, Builder or Civil/Structural Engineer?

Well, before we go into details, I'm sure we all agree the Mechanical Engineer shouldn't be responsible for task of ensuring 'Your Design' comes out as expected - conducive and beautiful (Aesthetics). LoL

Lets define the 3 professions we're considering (in alphabetical order)

A. Architect
According to the English dictionary:

* Architect [n.]: A person skilled in the art of building; one who understands architecture, or makes it his occupation to form plans and designs of buildings, and to superintend the artificers employed.

Lets further look at the meaning of 'SUPERINTEND':

* Superintend [v. t.]: To have or exercise the charge and oversight of; to oversee with the power of direction; to take care of with authority; to supervise; as, an officer superintends the building of a ship or the construction of a fort.

We'll stop here for now, while we get the definition of B & C from the same dictionary.

B. Builder
* Builder [n.]: One who builds; one whose occupation is to build, as a carpenter, a shipwright, or a mason.

this definition in my opinion wasn't fair or deep enough so I looked further down:

* Builder; constructor: someone who contracts for and supervises construction (as of a building)
* Homebuilder; home-builder; housebuilder; house-builder: someone who builds houses as a business

This definitions, almost limits the builder to a business man, (that's not my conclusion) - that's what the dictionary thinks.
we'll also come back to argue this, while we look at the last definition 'C' below.

C. Civil/Structural Engineer

* Structural: affecting or involved in structure or construction (ex.: the structural details of a house such as beams and joists and rafters; not ornamental elements; structural damage)

* Civil engineer: an engineer trained to design and construct and maintain public works (roads or bridges or harbors etc.)

* Civil engineering: the branch of engineering concerned with the design and construction of such public works as dams or bridges

Lets summarize the 3 definition on here; The first mentioned structures but noted that these does not include ornamental elements eg pop designs, tiling etc while the other two (from civil) were silent about buildings. The first conclusion we can draw from this definition is that the Civil Engineer is solely responsible for supervising structures like bridges, roads, dams and he has no competition in those area.

Verdict: The dictionary thinks the Architect is the more appropriate person to supervise the building BUT WE WOULD NOT CONCLUDE HERE.


LETS LOOK AT WIKI DEFINITIONS NOW:

* An architect is someone who plans, designs, and reviews the construction of buildings. To practice architecture means to provide services in connection with the design of buildings and the space within the site surrounding the buildings, that have as their principal purpose human occupancy or use. Etymologically, architect derives from the Latin architectus, which derives from the Greek (arkhi-, chief + tekton, builder), i.e., chief builder

Like in the dictionary definitions; wiki gives so much power to the Architect calling him 'CHIEF' -

* Structural engineering is mainly a sub-division of civil engineering where structural engineers are trained to understand, predict, and calculate the stability, strength and rigidity of built structures for buildings and non-building structures, to develop designs and integrate their design with that of other designers, and to supervise construction of projects on site.

* Builder may refer to:

- Construction worker who specializes in building work
- Carpenter, a skilled craftsman who works with wood
- General contractor, that specializes in building work

Off-course wiki didn't rule out the engineer as a supervisor on site - we can only argue that the website seems to have placed him under a 'chief' - perhaps not, AND except we're biased IT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE that the builder is the least recognized among the three. (No dis-respect meant please)


LETS LOOK AT LOGIC / COMMON REASONING:

Starting with C, B then A.

I'M SURE WE ALL AGREE THAT THE CIVIL/STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS ARE INVOLVED IN DESIGN OF THE STRUCTURAL ELEMENTS EG COLUMNS, BEAMS AND SLAB - BASICALLY HE DESIGNS & RECOMMEND ON ALL STEEL WORKS....If we all agree on the above, then 'my question is; SHOULD THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER BE INVOLVED IN ANY BUILDING THAT DOESN'T HAVE HAVE HIS DESIGN INPUT?

Lets support our claims with the Nigeria Approval Process - When seeking approval for a bungalow, all you're required to submit is an Architectural Plan - You would not be required to submit a structural design / calculation sheet until you start going up with a storey on another.

This means; The only person involved in all types of building (emphasis on BUILDING) is the Architect....


WHO UNDERSTANDS THE BUILDING MORE:

A. The person who designed it OR
B. The person who recommended what strength is required to make it stand
C. The person who only received series of drawings and required to build / supervise it

I'll leave every man to his conclusion here.


ACTUAL PRACTICE:

For those of us working with multi-national company, expatriates or dealing with big organizations have you ever noticed that the PROJECT MANAGERS are always Architects?

This is because of the single rule that Architects are the head of the construction team - I'm yet to come across a Project Managed by an Engineering firm or where the NO1 man on site is the Engineer.

Maybe I've just been on the wrong types of projects - which includes Factories, Warehouses, Mega Stores, Luxury apartment etc.

Could this be a co-incidence?


SO; MY QUESTION STILL IS "WHO SHOULD SUPERVISE A BUILDING PROJECT" well, I'm not ruling out the importance of both the Architect & Engineers especially on very complex structures.


Written and shared by 'SaydFact' on www.nairaland.com and www.palmchatnow.com