₦airaland Forum

joseph1013:
FAITH--A POST-MORTEM

Religious people believe things on faith. Although they hate to admit it, this means they are certain some things are true with insufficient evidence or with no evidence at all.

Actually, it is obvious, even to religious people, that faith is a terrible reason to accept something is true. It is terrible because we know different people use faith to arrive at contradictory conclusions. So some, or all of these conclusions MUST be wrong. For example, using faith Christians believe Jesus was a god but Muslims believe he was only a man. Using faith Jews, Christians and Muslims believe there is only one god but, using faith, Hindus believe there are many.

But there is another way to demonstrate the failure of faith that might have more resonance with religious people--there are things people believe on faith that they cannot possibly know are true. And there are things people are certain about on faith that they cannot truly be certain about. Let's look at some examples.

Muslims believe the Qur'an is perfect--that it contains no errors. I have yet to meet a Muslim who is not certain of this but how could anyone know it? No Muslim will claim to have read the entire Qur'an and confirmed every sub-clause of every sentence in every verse against validated evidence. So how do they know the Qur'an is perfect? Because someone told them and they chose to believe it on faith.

Claims of this sort cannot be shown to be true. There are many other claims that cannot be shown to be true. For example, the claim that God is omniscient. How could anyone be sure of that? They can't--they have to believe it on faith. (I don't even know how God could be sure of this--if there is something he doesn't know, he wouldn't know he doesn't know it!)

There are other religious claims for which there may be some evidence but only enough to arrive at a probability that the claim is true and not enough to arrive at certainty. Take, for example, the claim that Jesus was a real person who actually lived rather than a character of fiction.

Outside of the Bible, we have no first-hand evidence that Jesus existed. For the entire first century Jesus is not mentioned by any scholar, historian, philosopher, politician or poet. Nor is he mentioned in any surviving private letters or official documents. Absolutely nothing has been found. It's as if he didn't exist. And that is odd if he really did perform miracles, anger the Roman and Jewish establishments, attract a large following, get crucified, die and resurrect.

Even within the Bible we have no first-hand evidence. The stories about Jesus were written 30 - 90 years or so after his alleged death and no one who wrote about him could have known him (scholars do not believe the authors were Jesus' disciples--the names of the Gospels were added long after they were written). These second-hand Biblical accounts of Jesus' life are themselves problematic and need to be read with caution.

The Gospels of Matthew and Luke are largely word-for-word copies of Mark yet, despite this, contain differences of fact and paint different pictures of what Jesus was like. We also see embellishments added to the later Gospels that sound fanciful. For example, can we really believe that long dead people arose from their graves and walked around the town greeting people as stated in Matthew 27:52-53?

Given the lack of evidence for Jesus' existence and the nature of the hearsay stories in the Bible, what probability should we place on Jesus being a real historical character? Well, pick your own number, but you can only pick 100% certainty using faith--it is not warranted by the evidence.

Faith is a wholly useless way to determine what is true and what is false. So why do religious people use it? There is a simple answer to that. Faith is all they have. And it is worthless.

joseph1013:
Hypothetical Newspaper report: Three dead bodies were discovered in Lágbájá's house by the police.

Random Nigerian: Is it only Lágbájá that kills people and stores them in his house? Check Tàmèdò's house, too. There are hundreds of dead bodies there. Nonsense! Witch hunting. It is because Lágbájá is from Làkásègbè tribe and he practices Lámọrín religion that the police are disturbing him?

A lost nation. A lost people.

hahn:
Congratulations

You dey try

God give you more strength

Do you have your own blog? This here is serious content

onyenze123:
I have been quietly going through your posts on "Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion" and it reinforces the reason why I rejected all institutionalized religion.

Am a deist at the moment because science (which is truth based on verifiable evidence) hasn't come to a definite conclusion on how the earth started some billions of years ago nor the origin/originator of the universe. I appreciate the efforts of the scientific community towards discoveries.

For now, I am stuck with the "myth" that an originator with infinite intelligence and of infinite energy started the universe with natural laws (scientific laws we discover as we progress) to guide it as it evolved.

Thank you for these notes, am learning seriously

Because we don't know how something happened does not give us the excuse to put an imaginary being which also can't be proven. What's the error in this practice? We tend to give up easily when faced with really challenging problems. Let us assume I have no knowledge of geography and I saw a tornado, and I conclude that because I don't know how the tornado is formed, the God of the sun is causing it that would be false but it would block any future reasoning or investigation in that field.

joseph1013:
Are you deist? Do Deists believe in God? What evidence do deists have for God?

ValentineMary:
Because we don't know how something happened does not give us the excuse to put an imaginary being which also can't be proven. What's the error in this practice? We tend to give up easily when faced with really challenging problems. Let us assume I have no knowledge of geography and I saw a tornado, and I conclude that because I don't know how the tornado is formed, the God of the sun is causing it that would be false but it would block any future reasoning or investigation in that field.

onyenze123:
I have to put an imaginary being because I can't wrap my head around the proposal that the universe came to be on its own - it doesn't make sense. Something cannot come from nothing. Scientific community needs to work harder for evidence

joseph1013:
HINTS FOR CHRISTIANS

1. Stop praying for your enemies to die. You're not Boko Haram, ISIS or a psychopath. Your "enemies" are often your spouse, you parents, your siblings, your family, your friends, your neighbours, your co workers, your country men... If they all die, who will be left to cope with you?

2. Stop judging people. It's petty. You're a sinner too in somebody else's religious worldview. You eat pork, don't you? To a Muslim, you are a sinner. He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone.

3. Stop praying for unmerited favour. It is fraudulent. Ensure that you merit every favour you pray for. If your son studies well and another child who never studies does better than he in class every time because the teacher is always rigging the results, how would you feel? "Unmerited favour" is a huge part of the reason why our country is corrupt, inefficient and backward. Merit your favour.

4. Do not protect shady practices because your pastor is involved. Let everyone be accountable to everyone. Let husbands and wives be accountable to each other on how family resources are utilized. Let political and religious leaders be accountable to those whom they lead. There is nothing wrong with being anointed. But there is a problem if an anointed is shouting "touch not my anointed" when told to be accountable.

5. Stop disturbing people's sleep with loud speakers. If they are interested in your message, they will look for your church. That they are sleeping at home means sleep is their priority at the moment.

6. Stop scaring people with hell fire. If your message is true and inspiring, you don't have to bring drama and ojuju calabar into it. A beautiful message is beautiful in and of itself. No need for fear and threats. Telling people they will burn in hell is not a message of love. It is a message of terror. It nauseates many people.

7. Stop disturbing people in buses in the name of bus evangelism. Imagine if Muslims start shouting Allahu Akbar with megaphones and Sango worshippers are shouting eriwooo ya! all at the same time in the same bus? Allow people to enjoy the peace they paid for. Allow the driver to concentrate.

8. It is possible for people to be good, decent and hard working citizens without being Christians. Judge people by their characters. Not by their religions or denominations.

9. People don't become Bill Gates or Dangote by typing Amen on Facebook and WhatsApp. They get educated, learn a trade, excel at their jobs and invest. Prosperity is not just for Christians. It's for every citizen who works hard and works smart.

10. People don't get smart by reading just one book. They read plenty books. Plenty. When you're asked your opinion about the world, quote from different books. Not just one book. That's why you didn't do CRK alone in secondary school. Quote the appropriate book for the appropriate question.

joseph1013:
Never judge a book by its cover. Even if the cover has "Holy" written on it, still do not judge it by its cover.

Read every book with a healthy skepticism and and an open mind. No book is infallible.

Question every book and let every word in every book prove its own merit. Merit and veracity are not automatically assigned by what is written on a book's cover. They are earned after every word in a book has been thoroughly examined.

seneca:
Joseph, you are lifting someone's posts on Facebook. The least you could do is to acknowledge them. If not, you are guilty of intellectual theft. Or are you too lazy to think up original ideas?

lastkingsman:
What evidence do atheists have for non existent of God?

CltrAltDelicious:
Since nothing comes from nothing, where does the supreme being came from?

onyenze123:
We can only get the answer through research. It's a mystery for now

CltrAltDelicious:
Don't you think it wrong to fill the gap with since we don't have an answer yet

onyenze123:
it is neither right nor wrong. If there is no definite answer to a question, speculations fill in that void whether you like it or not. That's why I say till research and study provide the definite answer, I can't say you are wrong and you can't say am right.

CltrAltDelicious:
Instead of assuming a place holder or "speculating" we should simply say "I don't know" till we get the answer

joseph1013:
I admit I should have for these two posts. I have several here that I referenced. Sometimes you just get forget to reference. These ones have been edited. Thanks

joseph1013:
THANKS FOR READING...

Time and time again, I get notified of a large number of 'likes' just out of the blues. When I check, I realize that they have been coming from someone reading this thread from Page 1 all the way to the latest page.

It shows these sometimes incoherent words are making sense to people. I have gotten emails from people saying their journey to disbelief started on this thread. I'm humbled by this.

I have been spending the last hours watching Youtube videos of Benny Hinn endorsing Chris Oyakhilome. The last video lasted 3 hours. Benny Hinn invited Oyakhilome to California to preach to a congregation of about 100 people. It was a huge endorsement and Chris was grinning from ear to ear proud to have his mentor pay glowing tributes to him.

In describing what he saw in Nigeria when he last visited in November 2016, he spoke of how Nigeria is now very different from what he experienced when Benson Idahosa invited him in the 80s. He called Nigerian pastors the best pastors in the world. He called Nigerian churches the best hosts in the world. He said there is a move of the Holy Spirit in Nigeria that is not in any place of Nigeria. He ended by saying that the US needs Nigeria.

That struck me as odd. In terms of economic development, Nigeria is one of the worst places to do business and even live. A reuter report last week quoted some investors saying that Nigeria is uninvestable. The US is the world's leader in economic development and it is still the greatest country on earth.

Here is my point: That Benny looks to Nigeria as an example to the world shows the level of 'unthinkingness' that is taking place. There is a dearth of critical thinking no thanks to widespread poverty. Nigeria's greatest export is now religion. Ministries are springing up all over the world managed by Nigerian pastors, and those who understand religion realize the bondage Nigerians must be to have so many of these charlatans fleecing them.

Therefore, if my little thread does something to buck the trend and cause people to carve a 'thinking' path, then it would be worth the efforts.

Thanks for reading this thread. Hope it stays here for a long time. Posterity will absolve us of some blame because here is proof that some indeed understood the manipulation and exploitation that is taking place at this time of great religiosity in our dear country.

Keep reading. The truth will set you free...

onyenze123:
.......

Mark 9:42

.......
If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.

joseph1013:
THANKS FOR READING...

Time and time again, I get notified of a large number of 'likes' just out of the blues. When I check, I realize that they have been coming from someone reading this thread from Page 1 all the way to the latest page.

It shows these sometimes incoherent words are making sense to people. I have gotten emails from people saying their journey to disbelief started on this thread. I'm humbled by this.

I have been spending the last hours watching Youtube videos of Benny Hinn endorsing Chris Oyakhilome. The last video lasted 3 hours. Benny Hinn invited Oyakhilome to California to preach to a congregation of about 100 people. It was a huge endorsement and Chris was grinning from ear to ear proud to have his mentor pay glowing tributes to him.

In describing what he saw in Nigeria when he last visited in November 2016, he spoke of how Nigeria is now very different from what he experienced when Benson Idahosa invited him in the 80s. He called Nigerian pastors the best pastors in the world. He called Nigerian churches the best hosts in the world. He said there is a move of the Holy Spirit in Nigeria that is not in any place on earth. He ended by saying that the US needs Nigeria.

That struck me as odd. In terms of economic development, Nigeria is one of the worst places to do business and even live. A reuter report last week quoted some investors saying that Nigeria is uninvestable. The US is the world's leader in economic development and it is still the greatest country on earth.

Here is my point: That Benny looks to Nigeria as an example to the world shows the level of 'unthinkingness' that is taking place. There is a dearth of critical thinking no thanks to widespread poverty. Nigeria's greatest export is now religion. Ministries are springing up all over the world managed by Nigerian pastors, and those who understand religion realize the bondage Nigerians must be to have so many of these charlatans fleecing them.

Therefore, if my little thread does something to buck the trend and cause people to carve a 'thinking' path, then it would be worth the efforts.

Thanks for reading this thread. Hope it stays here for a long time. Posterity will absolve us of some blame because here is proof that some indeed understood the manipulation and exploitation that is taking place at this time of great religiosity in our dear country.

Keep reading. The truth will set you free...

ValentineMary:
Because we don't know how something happened does not give us the excuse to put an imaginary being which also can't be proven. What's the error in this practice? We tend to give up easily when faced with really challenging problems. Let us assume I have no knowledge of geography and I saw a tornado, and I conclude that because I don't know how the tornado is formed, the God of the sun is causing it that would be false but it would block any future reasoning or investigation in that field.

onyenze123:
I have to put an imaginary being because I can't wrap my head around the proposal that the universe came to be on its own - it doesn't make sense. Something cannot come from nothing. Scientific community needs to work harder for evidence