....

YonkijiSappo:


I don't know how correct that you assertion is.

Yoruba comes from Oyo + Ruba. Oyo being the pre-eminent Yoruba empire at the time.
And it comes from the Songhai empire of Mali.

It is similar to the way the Oyos also called the Baatonus/Borgus Ibaruba or Bariba, and it stuck. I don't think there's anything wrong with it and it has never been derogatory, but rather, descriptive. A long as the name comes from other Africans to describe their neighbors, and not some people from across the seas.

There was an old article that supports my assertion. It was by an old Hausa scholar explaining the origins of the word. It simply means thug of the south. Yoruba's never called themselves Yoruba

baby124:

There was an old article that supports my assertion. It was by an old Hausa scholar explaining the origins of the word. It simply means thug of the south. Yoruba's never called themselves Yoruba

Na lie, it never meant that.

Is the Hausa word for Thug anything similar to Yoru anything?
The name certainly had a connection to Oyo.

Yes, Yorubas never existed as a single group before, but Yoruba is what we are all collectively known as now. It is what it is.

YonkijiSappo:


Na lie, it never meant that.

Is the Hausa word for Thug anything similar to Yoru anything?
The name certainly had a connection to Oyo.

Do your own research. I won't pull that up for you, but it was actually proven on NL here in the past. The Hausa and Fulani did not have a peaceful relationship with Yoruba so why would it be so far off that the name they will call us would be derogatory?

YonkijiSappo:


Na lie, it never meant that.

Is the Hausa word for Thug anything similar to Yoru anything?
The name certainly had a connection to Oyo.

Yes, Yorubas never existed as a single group before, but Yoruba is what we are all collectively known as now. It is what it is.

We are not all collectively known as Yoruba. It depends on the country. In Nigeria, yes we are known as Yoruba

baby124:

Do your own research. I won't pull that up for you, but it was actually proven on NL here in the past. The Hausa and Fulani did not have a peaceful relationship with Yoruba so why would it be so far off that the name they will call us would be derogatory?

Well, when you pull it up, I don't want to see just speculations or opinions by people, but rather facts. The Hausas and Yorubas did infact have a peaceful relationship until of course the Jihad came about, mind you, the name Yoruba was already in existence before the Jihad of Northern Nigeria. The Nupes are the ones who had a tumultuous relationship with the Oyos, not the Hausas.

baby124:

They obviously didn't know the meaning. It's the Hausa's that gave them that name and somehow it stuck. Anago is also derogatory, and that is the name Yoruba's in Benin republic are called. I once met a beninoise lady and she did call me Anago. Even though I corrected her that I was Yoruba. She told her friend that I am Anago.

Phew!!

Look How far we've come, on pure conjectures, lol.

I really wish there was a written history of the Yorubas dating back to prehistoric times.

I remember being taught some of this history back in PRIMARY SCHOOL! Can you believe that.

I wish the governors of the Western states, home of the modern day Yorubas, will sponsor a commission made up of the best historians and archaeologists to unearth the Yoruba history.

Sometimes knowing where one is coming from helps one to figure out where he should be heading towards.

baby124:

We are not all collectively known as Yoruba. It depends on the country.

In Benin, there are Yorubas and there are Anagos.
Yorubas in Benin are those that seem to have a very strong connection to the primordials of Yoruba culture. Those further culturally divergent people prefer the term Anago - but even so, the term Yoruba is gaining wider acceptance among all Yoruba groups abroad.

YonkijiSappo:


Well, when you pull it up, I don't want to see just speculations or opinions by people, but rather facts. The Hausas and Yorubas did infact have a peaceful relationship until of course the Jihad came about, mind you, the name Yoruba was already in existence before the Jihad of Northern Nigeria. The Nupes are the ones who had a tumultuous relationship with the Oyos, not the Hausas.

You do your research. You are the one arguing. We did not have a cordial relationship with the north. Yoruba sold northerner's as slaves and did fight for territory with the north for as long as possible. We had a familial relationship with the nupe's, not always peaceful but not as bad as you paint it. Sango's mother was a Nupe, so there was a lot of intermarriage between both groups. We co-existed actually with the nupe's who we call Tapa. How did the Nupe's then come to bear Nupe since we know them as Tapa? Naming is not as straightforward as you make it seem.

ElsonMorali:


Phew!!

Look How far we've come, on pure conjectures, lol.

I really wish there was a written history of the Yorubas dating back to prehistoric times.

I remember being taught some of this history back in PRIMARY SCHOOL! Can you believe that.

I wish the governors of the Western states, home of the modern day Yorubas, will sponsor a commission made up of the best historians and archaeologists to unearth the Yoruba history.

Sometimes knowing where one is coming from helps one to figure out where he should be heading towards.

Historical account of the name Yoruba is there and available. It's not a conjecture.

I agree with you that there is still a lot to be learnt. But the governments are too greedy to sponsor a cultural exploration and preservation. We have a lot hidden under the ground in the Nigeria. A lot of history.

baby124:

You do your research. You are the one arguing. We did not have a cordial relationship with the north. Yoruba sold northerner's as slaves and did fight for territory with the north for as long as possible. We had a familial relationship with the nupe's, not always peaceful but not as bad as you paint it. Sango's mother was a Nupe, so there was a lot of intermarriage between both groups. We co-existed actually with the nupe's who we call Tapa. How did the Nupe's then come to bear Nupe since we know them as Tapa? Naming is not as straightforward as you make it seem.

What is "North"?
When did the official designation of what is "North" and what is "South" come about? No be Oyinbo come take ruler draw line? is Kogi state more Northern than Oyo state? How can u be using terminologies like fighting for territory "with the North" ? lol
Yorubas and Hausas TRADED a, and of course that included trade in slaves, many of whom were Hausas caught in the North and sold to the Oyo empire who were middle men. There were many Hausa muslims living within old Yoruba towns in the past, you go and research, because i am not arguing with you. The Hausas and Yorubas never had any major historical confrontations in our entire timelines, we aren't even neighbors.

It was the Nupes we were at constant warfare with, and of course all that ended when the nupes themselves were destroyed by the Fulanis who were on their way to further south.

baby124:

You do your research. You are the one arguing. We did not have a cordial relationship with the north. Yoruba sold northerner's as slaves and did fight for territory with the north for as long as possible. We had a familial relationship with the nupe's, not always peaceful but not as bad as you paint it. Sango's mother was a Nupe, so there was a lot of intermarriage between both groups. We co-existed actually with the nupe's who we call Tapa. How did the Nupe's then come to bear Nupe since we know them as Tapa? Naming is not as straightforward as you make it seem.

How does Sango's mother being Tapa signify that we didn't have conflicts?
Shaare and Tsaragi are still fighting today, yet a lot of Yorubas and Nupes are still inter marrying.

YonkijiSappo:


How does Sango's mother being Tapa signify that we didn't have conflicts?
Shaare and Tsaragi are still fighting today, yet a lot of Yorubas and Nupes are still inter marrying.

Clashes are not wars. The two groups have co-existed like that for centuries. The wars they had with the Fulani', now those were real wars. To the extent Fulani had to engage in treachery to get a hold of ilorin

baby124:

Clashes are not wars. The two groups have co-existed like that for centuries. The wars they had with the Fulani', now those were real wars. To the extent Fulani had to engage in treachery to get a hold of ilorin

No, I mean proper of proper large scale wars between the Oyo empire and the Nupes.
Haba, google is your friend na. Abi you think Yorubas and Tapas have always been sweet gentle "bedmate" kind of neighbors? heck no.

YonkijiSappo:


What is "North"?
When did the official designation of what is "North" and what is "South" come about? No be Oyinbo come take ruler draw line? is Kogi state more Northern than Oyo state? How can u be using terminologies like fighting for territory "with the North" ? lol
Yorubas and Hausas TRADED a, and of course that included trade in slaves, many of whom were Hausas caught in the North and sold to the Oyo empire who were middle men. There were many Hausa muslims living within old Yoruba towns in the past, you go and research, because i am not arguing with you. The Hausas and Yorubas never had any major historical confrontations in our entire timelines, we aren't even neighbors.

It was the Nupes we were at constant warfare with, and of course all that ended when the nupes themselves were destroyed by the Fulanis who were on their way to further south.

Hausas sell their own people? I laugh is Spanish. The Hausa slaves who were sold were people Yoruba's captured during wars with Hausa and Fulani. No group sold themselves to other Nigerians. Never. It did not even happen between Yoruba's. When there are foreigners who have something of value to exchange for your enemies.

baby124:
Hausas sell their own people? I laugh is Spanish. The Hausa slaves who were sold were people Yoruba's captured during wars with Hausa and Fulani. No group sold themselves to other Nigerians. Never. It did not even happen between Yoruba's. When there are foreigners who have something of value to exchange for your enemies.

Ok, you are not versed in history..

Chaooooooo. lol

YonkijiSappo:


Ok, you are not versed in history..

Chaooooooo. lol

Lol, chaoo! No group sold themselves to other Nigerians. To foreigner's maybe. Slaves have always been spoils of war between people. Even Yoruba slaves in Yorubaland were casualties of war amongst Yoruba's. Same with the Hausa and Fulani slaves. War history may not be my thing. But slave and cultural history is actually my thing. Almost an expertise actually. Even if Hausa sold slaves to Yoruba, they most likely were not Hausa. But captured northern minorities.

baby124:

Queen Sheba was Ethiopian and Yemeni, a Christian . Bilikisu Sungbo is or was a Yoruba woman. I even doubt her name was Bilikisu as I don't believe Islam was in Yoruba land then. I think that part of history may have been forged.

Probably you are right, and also wrong, who knows except God!!!!!. Do your research sir, yes i also mentioned she was Ethiopian, No where have i read she was yemeni, and yes she had roots to the Yoruba Kingdom or probably journeyed there for trade from King Solomon's kingdom and died & buried in Eredo.

Do more research, you will see archaeological works finding her resting place in eredo,

"she was A somewhat nebulous figure, the Queen of Sheba (fl. 10th century BCE)—known also as Bilqis and as Makeda—figures prominently in Judaic, Islamic, and Ethiopian traditions. Her legendary voyage to meet Solomon, King of Israel, has inspired centuries of speculation about her kingdom and influence in the ancient world."

regards.

baby124:

Lol, chaoo! No group sold themselves to other Nigerians. To foreigner's maybe. Slaves have always been spoils of war between people. Even Yoruba slaves in Yorubaland were casualties of war amongst Yoruba's. Same with the Hausa and Fulani slaves. War history may not be my thing. But slave and cultural history is actually my thing. Almost an expertise actually

So you think Yorubas went to Gobir, Rano or Kano to fight and bring the Hausa slaves you alluded to earlier down all the way to Oyo? clap for yourself.
Have you seen the chronicles of Sultan Bello where he was lamenting that Muslim Hausas were not supposed to be selling other Hausa Muslims as slaves? Maybe you should read that first.

ajalaolanr:


Probably you are right, and also wrong, who knows except God!!!!!. Do your research sir, yes i also mentioned she was Ethiopian, No where have i read she was yemeni, and yes she had roots to the Yoruba Kingdom or probably journeyed there for trade from King Solomon's kingdom and died & buried in Eredo.

Do more research, you will see archaeological works finding her resting place in eredo,

"she was A somewhat nebulous figure, the Queen of Sheba (fl. 10th century BCE)—known also as Bilqis and as Makeda—figures prominently in Judaic, Islamic, and Ethiopian traditions. Her legendary voyage to meet Solomon, King of Israel, has inspired centuries of speculation about her kingdom and influence in the ancient world."

regards.

Nothing like Islam in Yorubaland 1,000yrs ago when this wall must have been built. If there was a historical figure like Queen Sheba, who is older than 1,000 yrs ago, she would not have been named Bilkiis. It just shows that even if the story of Billkis is true, she is not over 1,000 yrs old. Neither did she build the eredo. The scale of the eredo shows it was a civilization and no single individual no matter how rich is capable of such a project by themselves. You need a massive kingdom and massive Human Resources to build such a wall

baby124:

Nothing like Islam in Yorubaland 1,000yrs ago when this wall must have been built. If there was a historical figure like Queen Sheba, who is older than 1,000 yrs ago, she would not have been named Bilkiis. It just shows that even if the story of Billkis is true, she is not over 1,000 yrs old. Neither did she build the eredo. The scale of the eredo shows it was a civilization and no single individual no matter how rich is capable of such a project by themselves. You need a massive kingdom and massive Human Resources to build such a wall

Are you an Archaeologist? have you done any work on Queen sheba in terms of findings, have you visited Eredo to talk to the natives to butress your opinion so you can have a solid outpost to your knowleged of her? have you done an extensive Historical Audit on Queen sheba or Done any form of Archaeological finding about her? why then do you argue with those that have written thesis on this and used much of their life to put dots together to come to such a conclusion.

You sound like a smart dude, even the smartest of all give room for more knowledge and are not sacrosanct in their opinion, all your comments are made out of opinion and are not saddled with Facts, let those that make it a life's purpose to audit history through Archaeology educate u, read from their works, i would be glad to read from someones work , thesis or research that can back up your claim.

I am an open Book.

baby124:

Queen Sheba was Ethiopian and Yemeni, a Christian . Bilikisu Sungbo is or was a Yoruba woman. I even doubt her name was Bilikisu as I don't believe Islam was in Yoruba land then. I think that part of history may have been forged.

To prove you are right, is there a shrine in those lands in memorial of Sheba? Our claims is easily to be taken with a pinch of salt. We find reasons to undermine anything beyond our scope as falsehood.

What compelling evidence inform your assumption and why do you think the name 'bilikisu' has to be a furgery? What compelling explanation replaces the story making the round about the moat?

Why did tradition identify this bible character by name Sheba with this moat and not just another random name from wherever?

ElsonMorali:


All living languages go through changes eventually and the Yoruba language is no exception.

But, unlike most languages, there are very many dialects of the same Yoruba language and this has helped in a way to preserve the Yoruba language from being too influenced by languages of neighboring ethnic groups.

While I submit that the Yorubas irrespective of dialect are one people, I maintain that the dialect spoken by the Ijebu, the Ondo, the Itshekiri and Ekiti are closer to the early Yoruba language generally spoken by the ancient Yorubas.

The Ibadan, Oyo, Ogbomoso, Ilorin and Ife dialect are much closer to the general Yoruba which is our native lingua franca.

I stand to be corrected though.

I agree with you on language development. If you know the history of England, you will marvel at the rate in which it developed to the current one being spoken. Despite the claim that English developed out of Germanic language. Still, they weren't Germanic stock. This show that people can come habit with other groups due to migration but doesn't make them the same stock. A clear case study is THE LATE BOB MARLEY WHOSE MOTHER WAS BLACK WOMAN BUT HIS FATHER WAS A PURE WHITE MAN. Can you now claim him to be of AFRICAN DESCENT? This is practically not true. So, be sincere with ourselves on issues as sensitive as this. I stand by my point, Yoruba are different from all other groups in West Africa and the ones who has similar religion with Yoruba is AKAN of Ghana, and even they maintain there migration out of ILE IFE. Do you know Yoruba have a DNA CONNECTION to Neanderthal which doesn't belong to Africa but EURO-ASIA? DO YOU KNOW YORUBA IS THE ONLY GROUP WITH THE HIGHEST PERCENTAGE OF UNTRACEABLE TRAIT IN NIGERIA AND AFRICA WITH 4%? Yoruba people are funny because they are too spiritual to understand the things of the spirit itself. Take for instance, how can Yoruba claim the beginning of mankind? Yet the oldest human presence is approximately 13,000 years ago and the skull is not even a Yoruba ancestor. May be I Should emphasize that since 1965, it was discovered, there hasn't been any outright claim by the white scientists to claim the skull as a Yoruba ancestor. Abram was the one God promised to give all part of the world in which his children will dwell. How on earth then will Yoruba claim ILE IFE as the beginning of mankind?. Absolutely IMPOSSIBLE when 2.8 million years old HUMAN SKULL exist in East Africa...

baby124:

That there was habitation of Nigeria 13,000 years ago shows there was life in Nigeria. Nigerian's have always been subsistence farmers. We never had huge cities on Egypt's scale. But we had settlements with a good amount of population. In the Iwo Eleru cave there is evidence of the use of tools. The fact that there is human habitation alone shows there would have been cultivation. Cultivation and hunting started in Africa. Long before Egypt was settled. The ancient Egyptians after all were originally Sudanese.

What habitation? Habitation started proper around 1000AD With traces of animal husbandry around 350BC at ILE IFE. NOK /BANTU were the original HAMITIC settlers in ADAMAWA, THERE IS A PLACE CALLED JABBA in Adamawa, with artifacts older than ILE IFE. THE IRON AGE IN WHICH YORUBA CAME WITH ITS DEVELOPMENT WAS NEVER DEVELOPED IN WEST AFRICA..

ajalaolanr:


Are you an Archaeologist? have you done any work on Queen sheba in terms of findings, have you visited Eredo to talk to the natives to butress your opinion so you can have a solid outpost to your knowleged of her? have you done an extensive Historical Audit on Queen sheba or Done any form of Archaeological finding about her? why then do you argue with those that have written thesis on this and used much of their life to put dots together to come to such a conclusion.

You sound like a smart dude, even the smartest of all give room for more knowledge and are not sacrosanct in their opinion, all your comments are made out of opinion and are not saddled with Facts, let those that make it a life's purpose to audit history through Archaeology educate u, read from their works, i would be glad to read from someones work , thesis or research that can back up your claim.

I am an open Book.

READ BOOKS ON QUEEN SHEEBAH OF ETHIOPIA

Clapp, Nicholas, Sheba: Through the Desert in Search of the Legendary Queen, Houghton Mifflin Company, 2001.
Hansberry, William Leo, Pillars in Ethiopian History: The William Leo Hansberry African History Notebook, ed. Joseph E. Harris, Howard University Press, 1974.
Holy Bible, American Bible Society, 1978.

Kebra Negast, trans. Miguel F. Brooks, The Red Sea Press, Inc., 1996.
Marcus, Harold G., A History of Ethiopia, University of California Press, 1994.
Munro-Hay, Stuart, Ethiopia: The Unknown Land, I.B. Tauris, 2002.

Qu'ran, trans. Muhammad Zafrulla Khan, Interlink Publishing Group-Olive Branch Press, 1997.
Shah, Tahir, In Search of King Solomon's Mines, Arcade Publishing, 2002.

baby124:

Nothing like Islam in Yorubaland 1,000yrs ago when this wall must have been built. If there was a historical figure like Queen Sheba, who is older than 1,000 yrs ago, she would not have been named Bilkiis. It just shows that even if the story of Billkis is true, she is not over 1,000 yrs old. Neither did she build the eredo. The scale of the eredo shows it was a civilization and no single individual no matter how rich is capable of such a project by themselves. You need a massive kingdom and massive Human Resources to build such a wall

Was there Christianity at that same time Pls? Cos u mentioned Bilikis being a Christian.

Amusaopeyemi:

Oduduwa was not the First Ooniririsha, it was after his death that they started using the "Ooni" title.

Lie. Odua was the first OONI. IF YOU CLAIM, ODUA WASNT, WHO WAS? HAVE YOU BEEN READING ONLY SAMUEL JOHNSON HISTORY BOOK? YOU MUST BE FUNNY IF YOU READ YORUBA HISTORY BASED ON SAMUEL JOHNSON'S BOOK. WHO DO YOU THINK WAS IN CHARGE OF KEEPING THE HERITAGE OF ODU'A? OBADIOH/ OBADIO LINEAGE AT ILE IFE WERE IN CHARGE OF KEEPING ODUA SHRINE . AND NOT ONE UNKNOWN FOREIGNER....

YonkijiSappo:


So you think Yorubas went to Gobir, Rano or Kano to fight and bring the Hausa slaves you alluded to earlier down all the way to Oyo? clap for yourself.
Have you seen the chronicles of Sultan Bello where he was lamenting that Muslim Hausas were not supposed to be selling other Hausa Muslims as slaves? Maybe you should read that first.

I read all sources and it only says Yoruba's used slaves that were non-Yoruba. The gambari were mostly used in Ilorin. It is not specific as to how they got there. However there is an article that states that the Wmir of Gobir had an army stationed in Nupe and part of Yorubaland for a while. This is how Yoruba's came to name them Gambari. The General stationed with the army eventually returned to Gobir. Historical accounts do not say why, but there were wars with the Nupe and the return of that army general coincides with the rise of Gambari slaves in Yorubaland. Now, I am not saying that some Hausa or northern minorities were not kidnapped and sold to Yoruba's. A lot of Nigerians got rid of their political enemies and village nuisance through kidnap and subsequent slavery. Yoruba acquisition of slaves were mostly through conflict and they used slaves extensively. But it is to be noted that they never enslaved people they co-existed with like the Nupe, the Igala or the Ebira. The only time Yoruba's captured and sold themselves was when there were internal wars and this was in the 1800's. But the Yoruba's have been using slave labor long before then.

Now about the Hausa slaves and the spread of Jihad. Yes there was outrage that Muslims were being captured and sold into slavery to the Yoruba's and foreigners, but there was no evidence that Hausa's willingly sold themselves into slavery for the Yoruba's. The Hausa's themselves stopped the sale of Muslim slaves but they also kept slaves for agricultural labor themselves within their empire. We know there are a lot of non Hausa or Fulani minorities in the North. They could also have been selling those people if we ever argue that this is how Yoruba's got their Hausa slaves. But I highly doubt it. The rise in the Hausa slaves coincides with the receding of the Gobir army from Nupe and Yorubaland.

Misterdhee1:

Was there Christianity at that same time Pls? Cos u mentioned Bilikis being a Christian.

That was an error and I corrected myself. She was most likely Jewish. Anyway we know the Bible is filled with stories of morality and not always accurate facts. Bible states the world is 6,000 years but we now know the world is way older than 6,000 years.

Olu317:
What habitation? Habitation started proper around 1000AD With traces of animal husbandry around 350BC at ILE IFE. NOK /BANTU were the original HAMITIC settlers in ADAMAWA, THERE IS A PLACE CALLED JABBA in Adamawa, with artifacts older than ILE IFE. THE IRON AGE IN WHICH YORUBA CAME WITH ITS DEVELOPMENT WAS NEVER DEVELOPED IN WEST AFRICA..

So the 13,000 year old skull was just transplanted to Iwo Eleru when it was discovered abi? The existence of the cave and the skull at Iwo Eleru shows human habitation of Nigeria even though pre-historic.

baby124:

That there was habitation of Nigeria 13,000 years ago shows there was life in Nigeria. Nigerian's have always been subsistence farmers. We never had huge cities on Egypt's scale. But we had settlements with a good amount of population. In the Iwo Eleru cave there is evidence of the use of tools. The fact that there is human habitation alone shows there would have been cultivation. Cultivation and hunting started in Africa. Long before Egypt was settled. The ancient Egyptians after all were originally Sudanese.

Stone head carving of Paramessu (Ramesses I), originally part of a statue depicting him as a scribe. On display at the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston .
Pharaoh is attached here

Reign 1292–1290 BC or 1295–1294 BC ( 19th Dynasty )
Predecessor Horemheb
Successor Seti I
Royal titulary
Consort Sitre
Children Seti I
Father Seti
Died 1290 BC
Burial KV16


He was the 19th dynasty in Egypt. Stop all these egocentric ideology of Yoruba supremacy. I am one of those that even supposed to claim it with such pride but let truth be told. This is one of the reason, many information are always been suppressed but not anymore with the advent of a lot of people having access to INTERNET. Which human habitation? You meant the fossil found in Iwo Eleru?

absoluteSuccess:


To prove you are right, is there a shrine in those lands in memorial of Sheba? Our claims is easily to be taken with a pinch of salt. We find reasons to undermine anything beyond our scope as falsehood.

What compelling evidence inform your assumption and why do you think the name 'bilikisu' has to be a furgery? What compelling explanation replaces the story making the round about the moat?

Why did tradition identify this bible character by name Sheba with this moat and not just another random name from wherever?

Sheba existed 3,000 years ago. Even if she build Eredo which is extremely impossible, the locals will not know her as Billkis. If the Billkis figure existed, she would have been a convert of Islam and Islam was not in Yorubaland 1,000 years ago. So the Biilkis is about 200-250 years old. While Eredo is over 1,000 years old and Sheba is over 3,000 years old. The dates don't match. Eredo was built by another civilization of people, most likely ancient Ijebu people.