Seun:

It means that you should be allowed to say such things. That your right to say such things should be defended by the government. There's no value in freedom of speech if it's only limited to things that won't offend anybody. Freedom of speech means freedom to offend. It is important because very often people are offended by the truth. And you can't have social progress if people aren't allowed to speak the truth.

"There's no value in freedom of speech if it's only limited to things that won't offend anybody. Freedom of speech means freedom to offend"

I believe the there's a reason why rights were created and also why limitations to these rights were created. You can't just go about talking about people anyhow either good or bad and expect the person to let you be.

More so Alexander Aan wasn't imprisoned and fined because of his post about Mohammed, blasphemy nor calling people to embrace atheism.

zionmade:
A lecturer gives u an F no because u scored 0 but because u scored less dan 40 and d F means failure even though u might have answered one or two questions perfectly.
So in dat view ISLAM IS THE MAJOR THREAT TO THE PEACE OF THE WORLD

Would you like to debate the assertion in your last sentence on a separate thread?

Seun:

No I didn't, but it seems you missed the mob that attacked him. A country in which a man can be openly attacked by a mob for expressing his view that maybe there is something wrong with marrying the wife of your adopted son, with no repercussions for the mob, is not peaceful.

Seun:

It means that you should be allowed to say such things. That your right to say such things should be defended by the government. There's no value in freedom of speech if it's only limited to things that won't offend anybody. Freedom of speech means freedom to offend. It is important because very often people are offended by the truth. And you can't have social progress if people aren't allowed to speak the truth.

That is your own view and it is abhorent in Nigeria
Most of the views canvassed by people who think like you are not original. They are products of western indoctrination
Yet I cannot, as a researcher, go across Europe an say based on my studies the Holocaust did not take place, I would be jailed
So where is the capacity to tolerate dissent and offence

BTW What is the benefit in offending people?
What is the benefit in having moderators on Nairaland if it is nice to offend people

Let me ask you this
Can you go to the streets of Benin and insult the Oba?
Or Ojukwu in Awka?
Or Awo in Ikenne?

Or what would you do if somebody insulted your dad?
Applaud?

The needless provocation of people serves no useful end and it is alien to our culture
I can assure you that our society will witness less conflict if we respect ourselves
Courtesy, decency, fairness are values we cherish, there is no benefit in importing strange standards of morality that can only subtract from our society
I am not impressed by the tension between the liberals and conservatives in America and it can still undo that the country
By your position, you should be promoting strong values rather than chip away at the foundation of societal moral fabric

BetaThings:




That is your own view and it is abhorent in Nigeria
Most of the views canvassed by people who think like you are not original. They are products of western indoctrination
Yet I cannot, as a researcher, go across Europe an say based on my studies the Holocaust did not take place, I would be jailed
So where is the capacity to tolerate dissent and offence

BTW What is the benefit in offending people?
What is the benefit in having moderators on Nairaland if it is nice to offend people

Let me ask you this
Can you go to the streets of Benin and insult the Oba?
Or Ojukwu in Awka?
Or Awo in Ikenne?

Or what would you do if somebody insulted your dad?
Applaud?

The needless provocation of people serves no useful end and it is alien to our culture
I can assure you that our society will witness less conflict if we respect ourselves
Courtesy, decency, fairness are values we cherish, there is no benefit in importing strange standards of morality that can only subtract from our society
I am not impressed by the tension between the liberals and conservatives in America and it can still undo that the country
By your position, you should be promoting strong values rather than chip away at the foundation of societal moral fabric

It is sad most nairaland atheist including seun can hardly make a coherent logical argument that is based on truths.

stixz:
I believe the there's a reason why rights were created and also why limitations to these rights were created.

Yes, there should be limitations on freedom of speech such as calling for someone to be attacked or killed, or deliberately lying in order to ruin someone's reputation, but attacking beliefs that you honestly consider to be false through arguments and satire should not be one of them.

You can't just go about talking about people anyhow either good or bad and expect the person to let you be.

In a civilized society, the government protects its citizens from those who seek to attack them for exercising their right to free speech. When they fail to prevent such attacks, the attackers are arrested and punished appropriately. Without this, you can't have freedom of speech.

BetaThings:
That is your own view and it is abhorrent in Nigeria

That something is abhorrent in Nigeria doesn't mean that it is wrong. Twin children and the clitoris were abhorrent in parts of Nigeria.

Most of the views canvassed by people who think like you are not original. They are products of western indoctrination

The West is doing better than us according to all objective economic and social metrics, therefore key western ideas are likely to be beneficial.

Yet I cannot, as a researcher, go across Europe and say based on my studies the Holocaust did not take place, I would be jailed

I never said Europeans were perfect (they have the same impulses) but there's a difference between denying a very important historical fact of genocide in order to incite further hatred against the victims of genocide, and criticizing a belief system that is not backed by good evidence.

BTW What is the benefit in offending people?

This is the wrong question. The right question is, "what is the benefit of being allowed to say something that offends people?" I answered this earlier, but another answer is that criminalizing 'offensive' speech puts too much power in the hands of those who are most easily offended.

Can you go to the streets of Benin and insult the Oba? Or Ojukwu in Awka? Or Awo in Ikenne?

No, because I have nothing to gain from it. But in a civilized society I should have the right to do this if I think it's necessary for some reason.

Or what would you do if somebody insulted your dad?

If I was walking along the street and someone approached me to spew insults about my dad, I would walk away quickly from the crazy person.

The needless provocation of people serves no useful end and it is alien to our culture

Sometimes people are offended by things that need to be said in order to move the society forward. Once upon a time, the notion that the earth moves round the sun was considered to be offensive by the catholic church. Now it's a universally accepted fact. Doctors were offended when a guy suggested that they should wash their hands with soap before conducting surgeries. Now it's a requirement. We need to err on the side of letting people say whatever they want to say, because some 'offensive' things need to be said for social progress. Those who feel 'offended' should also be encouraged to respond with their own words. No civilized society should tolerate violence as a response to verbal 'provocation'.

BetaThings:


Would you like to debate the assertion in your last sentence on a separate thread?

is it worth it??

did anyone notice how mr. freedom of speech couldn't even answer why he has moderators in his forum? He dodged a bullet I must say, a very well rigged hook by betathings. If you believe what you claim put it to practice.

https://www.nairaland.com/3731986/nairlander-easily-debunks-atheists-claims#55445440

Seun:

It means that you should be allowed to say such things. That your right to say such things should be defended by the government. There's no value in freedom of speech if it's only limited to things that won't offend anybody. Freedom of speech includes the freedom to offend. It is important because very often people are offended by the truth. And you can't have social progress if people aren't allowed to speak the truth.

Seun,I had to accept i am a muslim to be able to comment on this thread when infact i am not..I am just like you too though i am not an atheist..So bro,Why give Muslims a preferential treatment?Why should this be?Everybody bashes christians,why must people not bash muslims until you accept one stupid declaration posted on your profile..Isnt that Hypocrisy?Should you be giving muslims a preferential treatment on this forum?

Please answer this bro..Waithing for your reply..

Explorers:
10. Turkey is poised to be the first predominantly Muslim country to be a member of the European Union and this is partly because of the fact that it is a relatively peaceful country.

However, there are bouts of violence especially between the government and P.K.K. separatists which as turned up a notch recently with the suicide attack that saw a 100 killed in a bomb blast.

It has a 98.5% Muslim population with a secular democratic government.

Turkey where Russian ambassador was gunned down by a Muslim extremist. There have been series of bomb blasts and attack by Muslims in Turkey in the last couple of years.

Explorers:
1. Kuwait.




Considering that Kuwait has a sizable tourist population every year.

Kuwait makes our list as one of the most peaceful predominantly Muslim countries.

Another fact that testifies to the peacefulness of Kuwait is that there has never been civil conflict in its history.

Dubai, Qatar and Kuwait are the most liberal Muslim countrys on earth. The population of Muslim locals in those countrys are around 10 percent. About 90 percent of there population is constituted by expatriates which are mostly from other religions from the West and around Asia. Hence the reason for the peace in those countries. The locals are " minority " in their own countries. You know wherever Muslims are minority, there is usually relative peace. One other thing you need to know is that the West and Asia countries like Japan and China are the brain behind building those countries in terms of development and infrastructure. Those Muslim countries only have the money to spend in exchange for these.

Algeria too has passed through what Syria is passing through today in the 90s. So Algeria was never peaceful.

Indonesians are not Arabs. The country is liberal and embrace westernization. Even though there is oppression ad attack of religious minorities like Hindu and Christians in the country.

The kings of Morocco and Jordan are close western allay and they do not permit extremism in their territories. As for Saudi Arabia, there have been sporadic suicide bomb blasts in the kingdom by Muslim extremist because of their hatred for the crown prince of Saudi being a western ally. In fact, it's sunni/shia rivalry in Saudi.

Qatar is highly populated by Muslims and the Muslims are not a minority at all. The locals might be a "minority" but expat populations are Muslims as well.

A quick search also shows that Muslims are the majority in Kuwait. I couldn't find a stat for dubai but dubai is in UAE which is mainly populated by Muslims.

.....

happney65:


Seun,I had to accept i am a muslim to be able to comment on this thread when infact i am not..I am just like you too though i am not an atheist..So bro,Why give Muslims a preferential treatment?Why should this be?Everybody bashes christians,why must people not bash muslims until you accept one stupid declaration posted on your profile..Isnt that Hypocrisy?Should you be giving muslims a preferential treatment on this forum?

Please answer this bro..Waithing for your reply..

lolz You expect the same person who can explain why he has moderators to moderate a forum he owns despite all the flowery noise of freedom of speech to answer why he was pressured by a group of christians to invent such restrictions on the Islam section? Best of luck.

vedaxcool:


lolz You expect the same person who can explain why he has moderators to moderate a forum he owns despite all the flowery noise of freedom of speech to answer why he was pressured by a group of christians to invent such restrictions on the Islam section? Best of luck.

Wait up..... It was the Christians that pressured him to make that restriction?

AbdelKabir:


Wait up..... It was the Christians that pressured him to make that restriction?

Yup

vedaxcool:


Yup

I didn't know this, had my first account around 2014...

I have always thought it was Muslims that asked for the restriction because (most)Christians here seize every opportunity to vilify islam..

Why would they wanna do that tho?

vedaxcool:
did anyone notice how mr. freedom of speech couldn't even answer why he has moderators in his forum? He dodged a bullet I must say, a very well rigged hook by betathings. If you believe what you claim put it to practice.
https://www.nairaland.com/3731986/nairlander-easily-debunks-atheists-claims#55445440

Nairaland is a private space. We have the right to kick you out if you don't follow our rules, just as you have the right to kick a guest out of your house if s/he says something you don't like. Just as a mosque has the right to kick out a pastor who comes into the mosque to preach. But we will not attack you physically or try to murder or jail you just because you criticized or made fun of our beliefs. We have no right to do that.

Yes, there should be exceptions to freedom of speech. It should be illegal to call for violent acts against anybody. It should be illegal to deliberately lie against an innocent person to ruin that person's reputation, if a lawyer can prove that it was a deliberate lie. But it should not be illegal to insult or offend or provoke people. Nobody should have the right to not be insulted. No beliefs should have the privilege of not being criticised or mocked. People should be made to learn that, while they can't control what others say, they can and must control their reactions.

Seun:
Nairaland is a private space. We have the right to kick you out if you don't follow our rules, just as you have the right to kick a guest out of your house if s/he says something you don't like. Just as a mosque has the right to kick out a pastor who comes to the mosque to preach. But we will not attack you physically or try to murder you just because you criticized or made fun of our beliefs. We have no right to do that.

Yes, there should be exceptions to freedom of speech. It should be illegal to call for violent acts against anybody. It should be illegal to deliberately lie against an innocent person to ruin that person's reputation, if a lawyer can prove that it was a deliberate lie. But it should not be illegal to insult or offend or provoke people. Nobody should have the right to not be insulted. No beliefs should have the privilege of not being criticised or mocked. People should be made to learn that, while they can't control what people say, they can and must control their reactions.

A rule must be made on a plain field ...
So you are trying to differentiate e-bashing and physical mobbing..

They are both the same instances... But on different platformz...

From your statement here.. It is OK to bash someone who rant an offensive statement online and its very bad for a person who does same offline to be mobbed... Now take the same instance of the online platform to offline.. Don't you think it might be worse?

According to you in our of your statements up there ... " to question their untrue believe" since you know there belief is untrue and you know what is voided... Why should you head over to still do it...

In one of your posts you sound no less of an extremist... If to you.. Their belief is untrue then leave them to it!
Like they say... In Rome you act like Romans...

rich4god

snapscore:
Qatar is highly populated by Muslims and the Muslims are not a minority at all. The locals might be a "minority" but expat populations are Muslims as well.

A quick search also shows that Muslims are the majority in Kuwait. I couldn't find a stat for dubai but dubai is in UAE which is mainly populated my Muslims.

And those expatriates have high numbers of Hindus, Budist, Christians etc as well because I was there and saw live the religious demography of UAE. The locals of those countries are hardly seen around. Virtually everyone or crowd on their streets are foreigners that came there to hustle or work with companies. And these set of people don't have time for religious extremism because everyone is there to hustle and make money. Secondly, no foreigner has permanent residence permit in those Kuwait, Qatar, UAE etc. So everyone has limited rights and stake in those countries unlike the way it is in the West.

The locals are rich. They have no time for extremism. They embrace westernization in everything except in mode of dressing. They like faaji/enjoyment too much. The only places where you can meet the locals of those countries are at exotic places like malls, stars hotels, cafe, etc. The government takes care of the locals. Why will they have time to use themselves as suicide bombs or cause violence when they would like to enjoy their money. Only poor Muslims cause jihad in the name of religion. The kind of freedom Muslim terrorists are enjoying in their victims western countries, some of them are even citizens and permanent residents, they don't have such in these gulf countries. So tell me, na who wan come cause trouble when the real citizens (locals) of the countries that are just a little over 10 percent of the total population would like to live in peace so they can enjoy their wealth.

business4all:
And those expatriates have high numbers of Hindus, Budist, Christians etc as well because I was there and saw live the religious demography of UAE. The locals of those countries are hardly seen around. Virtually everyone or crowd on their streets are foreigners that came there to hustle or work with companies. And these set of people don't have time for religious extremism because everyone is there to hustle and make money. Secondly, no foreigner has permanent residence permit in those Kuwait, Qatar, UAE etc. So everyone has limited rights and stake in those countries unlike the way it is in the West.

The locals are rich. They have no time for extremism. They embrace westernization in everything except in mode of dressing. They like faaji/enjoyment too much. The only places where you can meet the locals of those countries are at exotic places like malls, stars hotels, cafe, etc. The government takes care of the locals. Why will they have time to use themselves as suicide bombs or cause violence when they would like to enjoy their money. Only poor Muslims cause jihad in the name of religion.

Okay but how does this relate to the claim you made about muslims being a minority in Qatar, Kuwait and Dubai?
No doubt there are expats from other religions but Muslims are the majority in these countries.

AbdelKabir:


I didn't know this, had my first account around 2014...

I have always thought it was Muslims that asked for the restriction because (most)Christians here seize every opportunity to vilify islam..

Why would they wanna do that tho?

Follow this thread and you will get the genesis of the current arrangement

https://www.nairaland.com/1195636/story-behind-avoid-getting-banned

Seun can it go homepage?

Seun:


Nairaland is a private space. We have the right to kick you out if you don't follow our rules, just as you have the right to kick a guest out of your house if s/he says something you don't like. Just as a mosque has the right to kick out a pastor who comes into the mosque to preach. But we will not attack you physically or try to murder or jail you just because you criticized or made fun of our beliefs. We have no right to do that.

Yes, there should be exceptions to freedom of speech. It should be illegal to call for violent acts against anybody. It should be illegal to deliberately lie against an innocent person to ruin that person's reputation, if a lawyer can prove that it was a deliberate lie. But it should not be illegal to insult or offend or provoke people. Nobody should have the right to not be insulted. No beliefs should have the privilege of not being criticised or mocked. People should be made to learn that, while they can't control what others say, they can and must control their reactions.

lolz so much laughter when you witness a grown man swallow his own word:talk about double speak with no shame whatsoever.

nairaland is a private forum controlled by who me? No you. It only follows that you practice what you preach .... if you really believe in this fairytale of freedom of speech you will atleast put it to practice in a place YOU have CONTROL over. Remember you used the same mouth of yours to claim freedom of speech in Europe is not perfect but yet lack the spine to practice it in a private forum owned by you. Such a shame. No one can take you seriously given how your words have no value whatsoever.

vedaxcool:


lolz You expect the same person who can explain why he has moderators to moderate a forum he owns despite all the flowery noise of freedom of speech to answer why he was pressured by a group of christians to invent such restrictions on the Islam section? Best of luck.

You mean christians made him do that?I dont understand..However like someone said,"Muslim section censorship is an attack on free speech. Seun is a little coward"..I wont say he is a little coward sef,He is a Big coward..

happney65:


You mean christians made him do that?I dont understand..However like someone said,"Muslim section censorship is an attack on free speech. Seun is a little coward"..I wont say he is a little coward sef,He is a Big coward..

https://www.nairaland.com/1195636/story-behind-avoid-getting-banned

Read the link above and you will shake your head at him even more. The link was the first instance of Christians pushing him to write rubbish on the Islam section

vedaxcool:


lolz so much laughter when you witness a grown man swallow his own word:talk about double speak with no shame whatsoever.

nairaland is a private forum controlled by who me? No you. It only follows that you practice what you preach .... if you really believe in this fairytale of freedom of speech you will atleast put it to practice in a place YOU have CONTROL over. Remember you used the same mouth of yours to claim freedom of speech in Europe is not perfect but yet lack the spine to practice it in a private forum owned by you. Such a shame. No one can take you seriously given how your words have no value whatsoever.

As in ehn, I couldn't help but shake my head for him.....he is not consistent and quickly jump on issues without thinking.....