₦airaland Forum

APCmyheart:
Well then coup still rampart unlike now, Then most African countries are still being controlled by Military so i believe he took the leadership role based on advice from colleagues and and some retired senior officers..

Yea, you might not be wrong if u say that he took the leadership role based on advice from colleagues, though I personally believe he might have taken the role cos he believed he could cleanse the system. But the reasons for taking the role doesn't zero the fact that his taking the role meant he supported the crime. U don't take part in sharing what was stolen and when u ar then caught, u say that u shared in the spoils because of advice from colleagues. Buhari's action by taking that role is just like him sharing in items stolen by thieves. It just makes him an accomplice.

eagleeye2:
Thank you.
The same way he could have rejected the bag of money sent to him by IBB, instead of accepting it and then playing Santa with it. I am beginning to see a pattern here.

Lol. If he wanted to be completely honourable, he would have rejected that offer. In civilised countries, that u truncated a democratically elected government is enough to dash u a forever bad name, but in Nigeria, u see people like IBB, Buhari vying for political posts after their past actions. That singular truncation of our democracy in 1983 led us to an extra 16years of chaos, during which Nigeria became far worse than what it was before he took over.

dolphinife:
When I was told that some of you are educated illiterates, I couldn't believe. It's one thing to be a graduate, it's another thing to be a graduate with sense....is it your lecturers that told you that Nigeria's first recession was in 1984??

Nigeria has been facing recession even immediately we gained independence.

y r u wasting important education on ppl dat dont need it?
didn't u see his name is android,a robot?

nwamehn:
Lol. If he wanted to be completely honourable, he would have rejected that offer. In civilised countries, that u truncated a democratically elected government is enough to dash u a forever bad name, but in Nigeria, u see people like IBB, Buhari vying for political posts after their past actions. That singular truncation of our democracy in 1983 led us to an extra 16years of chaos, during which Nigeria became far worse than what it was before he took over.

Same thing I was trying to tell that guy. But seems his mind is closed to all form of reasoning, because PMB. is involved.

eagleeye2:
I quoted you. Now if you believe what you wrote, then why are speaking from both sides of your mouth.
NB
Some MODs are playing god with Nairaland. I was banned a few hours ago for posting on this thread.

So they should also ban me for posting on this thread? You likes was quickly to call Buhari coup plotter when he did not even participated in the coup. But when Aguiyi Ironsi was mentioned you craw out from you hole to type nonsense..

eagleeye2:
And the same IBB was said to have given St. Buhari a bag of money, which he used to play Father Christmas in the same Biography.

Thank God Buhari did not use the money to make himself billionaire like others, He is such a kind man that think keeping this money to myself is like taking part in looting Nigeria treasury which he never wanna be part of..

He also believe giving the money to the poor will be regard as giving to those that truly deserve it..

I know if your father happen to be in Buhari shoe, he won't even think twice before starting drug business with the money and would have develop ASIA by now..

eagleeye2:
Hehehehehehe..... Your likes should thank their stars that Nigeria is a Zoo. If not, your Buhari and other coupists would be rotting in a jail somewhere.

LOL typical of comment of an Animal in a zoo, So the likes of IBB, Gowon, Ojukwu etc would have been walking free abi? Abi go get sense small..

eagleeye2:
When you can't take the heat, you resort to insults.

When you can't think of anything every comment will turn out to be insult..

nwamehn:
Yea, you might not be wrong if u say that he took the leadership role based on advice from colleagues, though I personally believe he might have taken the role cos he believed he could cleanse the system. But the reasons for taking the role doesn't zero the fact that his taking the role meant he supported the crime. U don't take part in sharing what was stolen and when u ar then caught, u say that u shared in the spoils because of advice from colleagues. Buhari's action by taking that role is just like him sharing in items stolen by thieves. It just makes him an accomplice.

Well everyone with their opinion, You are only talking from your personal opinion and not in the military constition, Can you please show me any military head of state in any part of the world that was prosecuted for coup after leaving office and i'll personally sue Buhari..

I mean an Army office that take over power by coup and was later charge to face trial because he plan coup..

IBB annulled a well contested 1993 election that was regard as Nigeria's most free and fair election till today and later handover to Shonekan and most of you have since silent about that and even calling IBB your hero based on your hatred for Buhari..

APCmyheart:
LOL typical of comment of an Animal in a zoo, So the likes of IBB, Gowon, Ojukwu etc would have been walking free abi? Abi go get sense small..

Please go and read your history books. Ojukwu never carried out a coup neither did he benefit from one. The rest coupists, yes.

APCmyheart:
So they should also ban me for posting on this thread? You likes was quickly to call Buhari coup plotter when he did not even participated in the coup. But when Aguiyi Ironsi was mentioned you craw out from you hole to type nonsense..

Both were beneficiaries of a coup. But Aguiyi wasn't invited to take control by the coupists, but Buhari was a direct beneficiary.

eagleeye2:
Please go and read your history books. Ojukwu never carried out a coup neither did he benefit from one. The rest coupists, yes.

But he carried out a treasonable offense which is even worse than coup..

APCmyheart:
But he carried out a treasonable offense which is even worse than coup..

Please understand that carrying out a coup is a treason.

eagleeye2:
Both were beneficiaries of a coup. But Aguiyi wasn't invited to take control by the coupists, but Buhari was a direct beneficiary.

LOL and how did Aguiyi ironsi become the Head of States then? please tell me something i don't know..

APCmyheart:
LOL and how did Aguiyi ironsi become the Head of States then? please tell me something i don't know..

Ironsi became head of state, because he was the most Senior at the time. And infact he instructed the coup to be quashed.
Please avail yourself of history. Google would be kind enough to help out.
Modified:
Maj-Gen Ironsi rallied the bulk of the army and managed to put down the coup. The coup leaders (except Ifeajuna who fled to Ghana) were placed under arrest. Major Nzeogwu handed over control of the northern region to Ironsi’s appointed designee: Major Hassan Katsina and was escorted by Lt-Col Conrad Nwawo (an officer whom Nzeogwu trusted) to Lagos where he surrendered to Maj-Gen Ironsi. The surviving members of the Federal cabinet handed over the reigns of Govt to Ironsi who suspended several parts of the constitution (mostly those parts dealing with party politics), banned all political parties and formed a new military government with a Supreme Military Council.
Source, Gamji.com

eagleeye2:
Please understand that carrying out a coup is a treason.

coup
kuː/
noun
noun: coup; plural noun: coups; noun: coup d'état; plural noun: coup d'états; plural noun: coups d'état

1.
a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.
"he was overthrown in an army coup"
synonyms: seizure of power, overthrow, takeover, ousting, deposition, regime change; More
bloodless coup, palace revolution;
rebellion, revolt, insurrection, mutiny, revolution, insurgence, insurgency, rising, rioting, riot;
coup d'état, jacquerie;
putsch
"the prime minister was deposed in a coup in 1995"
antonyms: election
2.
an instance of successfully achieving something difficult.
"it was a major coup to get such a prestigious contract"
synonyms: success, triumph, feat, successful manoeuvre, stunt, accomplishment, achievement, attainment, stroke, master stroke, stroke of genius; More
scoop;
tour de force
"securing Springsteen to open the new National Bowl was a coup for the owners"
an unusual or unexpected but successful tactic in card play.




treason
ˈtriːz(ə)n/
noun
noun: treason; noun: high treason; plural noun: high treasons

the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill or overthrow the sovereign or government.
"they were convicted of treason"
synonyms: treachery, lese-majesty; More
disloyalty, betrayal, faithlessness, perfidy, perfidiousness, duplicity, infidelity;
sedition, subversion, mutiny, rebellion;
high treason;
rarePunic faith
antonyms: allegiance, loyalty
the action of betraying someone or something.
plural noun: treasons
"doubt is the ultimate treason against faith"
synonyms: treachery, lese-majesty; More
disloyalty, betrayal, faithlessness, perfidy, perfidiousness, duplicity, infidelity;
sedition, subversion, mutiny, rebellion;
high treason;
rarePunic faith
antonyms: allegiance, loyalty
historical
the crime of murdering someone to whom the murderer owed allegiance, such as a master or husband.



They might have similarities and the penalty might be the same, But coup is toppling a certain Govt while treason is waging war against your own country..

eagleeye2:
Ironsi became head of state, because he was the most Senior at the time. And infact he instructed the coup to be quashed.
Please avail yourself of history. Google would be kind enough to help out.
Modified:
Maj-Gen Ironsi rallied the bulk of the army and managed to put down the coup. The coup leaders (except Ifeajuna who fled to Ghana) were placed under arrest. Major Nzeogwu handed over control of the northern region to Ironsi’s appointed designee: Major Hassan Katsina and was escorted by Lt-Col Conrad Nwawo (an officer whom Nzeogwu trusted) to Lagos where he surrendered to Maj-Gen Ironsi. The surviving members of the Federal cabinet handed over the reigns of Govt to Ironsi who suspended several parts of the constitution (mostly those parts dealing with party politics), banned all political parties and formed a new military government with a Supreme Military Council.
Source, Gamji.com

And Buhari was not the most senior at the time? Mind you Buhari was in Jos and the coup took place in Lagos, he was called back from his duty post as the most senior officer then same way Abdusalam Abubakar was called from Lagos when Abacha died..


So if Buhari is guilty of taking the post then same goes to ironsi..

APCmyheart:
coup
kuː/
noun
noun: coup; plural noun: coups; noun: coup d'état; plural noun: coup d'états; plural noun: coups d'état

1.
a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.
"he was overthrown in an army coup"
synonyms: seizure of power, overthrow, takeover, ousting, deposition, regime change; More
bloodless coup, palace revolution;
rebellion, revolt, insurrection, mutiny, revolution, insurgence, insurgency, rising, rioting, riot;
coup d'état, jacquerie;
putsch
"the prime minister was deposed in a coup in 1995"
antonyms: election
2.
an instance of successfully achieving something difficult.
"it was a major coup to get such a prestigious contract"
synonyms: success, triumph, feat, successful manoeuvre, stunt, accomplishment, achievement, attainment, stroke, master stroke, stroke of genius; More
scoop;
tour de force
"securing Springsteen to open the new National Bowl was a coup for the owners"
an unusual or unexpected but successful tactic in card play.




treason
ˈtriːz(ə)n/
noun
noun: treason; noun: high treason; plural noun: high treasons

the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill or overthrow the sovereign or government.
"they were convicted of treason"
synonyms: treachery, lese-majesty; More
disloyalty, betrayal, faithlessness, perfidy, perfidiousness, duplicity, infidelity;
sedition, subversion, mutiny, rebellion;
high treason;
rarePunic faith
antonyms: allegiance, loyalty
the action of betraying someone or something.
plural noun: treasons
"doubt is the ultimate treason against faith"
synonyms: treachery, lese-majesty; More
disloyalty, betrayal, faithlessness, perfidy, perfidiousness, duplicity, infidelity;
sedition, subversion, mutiny, rebellion;
high treason;
rarePunic faith
antonyms: allegiance, loyalty
historical
the crime of murdering someone to whom the murderer owed allegiance, such as a master or husband.



They might have similarities and the penalty might be the same, But coup is toppling a certain Govt while treason is waging war against your own country..

Why are you quoting dictionary. According to the constitution, Coup is a Treasonable felony. Haba mana

APCmyheart:
And Buhari was not the most senior at the time? Mind you Buhari was in Jos and the coup took place in Lagos, he was called back from his duty post as the most senior officer then same way Abdusalam Abubakar was called from Lagos when Abacha died..


So if Buhari is guilty of taking the post then same goes to ironsi..

Ayam tired of arguing with you. Bye Bye. You Win.

eagleeye2:
Why are you quoting dictionary. According to the constitution, Coup is a Treasonable felony. Haba mana

So dictionary meaning is irrelevant now? hahahaha i doff my hat for your stewpidity ooo my oga..

eagleeye2:
Ayam tired of arguing with you. Bye Bye. You Win.

why won't you when you want to paint Buhari bad and call Ironsi an hero for what you refer to as similar offense..

APCmyheart:
Well everyone with their opinion, You are only talking from your personal opinion and not in the military constition, Can you please show me any military head of state in any part of the world that was prosecuted for coup after leaving office and i'll personally sue Buhari..

I mean an Army office that take over power by coup and was later charge to face trial because he plan coup..

IBB annulled a well contested 1993 election that was regard as Nigeria's most free and fair election till today and later handover to Shonekan and most of you have since silent about that and even calling IBB your hero based on your hatred for Buhari..

Ok, maybe u don't know, coup and mutiny are both crimes according to the Nigerian military laws. The penalty for coup is capital punishment. Go and enquire from any superior or reliable military source u have access to. I can't be selling u falsified facts, I'm only telling u law. That IBB did it and went free doesn't mean it's no crime. That Buhari did it and went free doesn't mean it's no crime. There is what we call abuse of law. The then supreme military council always abused the law because "na the same people". U don't expect Abacha who was chief of army staff during IBB regime and also IBB's boy to execute him because he led a coup which he, Abacha was also part of. Did u expect IBB to have executed Buhari because he headed the government that was brought in by the coup led by that same IBB? Did u expect Murtala Mohammed to have executed Gowon in 1975 for being installed as head of state in 1966 after the coup that killed Aguiyi Ironsi which Murtala Mohammed was also part of the planners? They can only execute people who weren't part of their clique once they abort the coup, that's why people like Dimka, Orkar, etc were killed and Nzeogwu also demanded to be killed but Abacha, Buhari, IBB, Danjuma, Idiagbon, Bamaiyi etc were never executed because na the same group. My brother, na "them them" that's why they can't do jack, and na them still dey power so nothing can be done, even if something were to be done, the civilians in government must have chosen to get over it and focus on the future just as Buhari initially decided not to probe previous administrations before Jonathan's, but this doesn't change the fact that these coup plotters and accomplices truncated our democracy. Coup is a crime, whether IBB or any other head of the supreme military council bends the law or not.
Regarding army head of states in any part of the world facing trials, Marshal Philippe Petain was the chief of state of France from 1940 to 1944. He was an authoritarian military dictator that overthrew the democratically elected government of Albert Lebrun, he had backups from the Nazis, after 1944 when he was ousted, he was tried and imprisoned for life. This is one I can remember just standing, if I refer back to my history books I will surely be able to get more.
I'm not saying that Buhari, IBB, etc should be executed or imprisoned now because once u were able to seize power by coup and u later handed over power back to civilians or u were still ousted by another coup, the structures u must have set in place would be too hard for u to be brought up and executed again. But a reasonable, unbiased and educated person should ask, what exactly do these guys have to do with our democracy again since they also truncated that same democracy and set us backwards for so many years? And it's not like they now even regret truncating our democracy, but they might even still be proud of those crimes, so what exactly do they have to offer this same democracy they damaged? The second question would be, in this 21st century, in any of these civilized countries like US, Russia, France, UK that we look up to, how many coup plotters if they ar alive, have come back to contest for the presidency or prime ministerial slots of these nations and were voted for?
Guy, what do u mean by IBB my hero or my hatred for Buhari? Nnaa mehn, I'm too old for all these abeg, I'm way too old to be having a Nigerian politician as hero, more so ones who did so bad to our democracy like IBB and Buhari. If my truths about the truncation of our democracy by these men pain u, then I don't know what exactly to do about it cos I can't stop telling the truth.

nwamehn:
Ok, maybe u don't know, coup and mutiny are both crimes according to the Nigerian military laws. The penalty for coup is capital punishment. Go and enquire from any superior or reliable military source u have access to. I can't be selling u falsified facts, I'm only telling u law. That IBB did it and went free doesn't mean it's no crime. That Buhari did it and went free doesn't mean it's no crime. There is what we call abuse of law. The then supreme military council always abused the law because "na the same people". U don't expect Abacha who was chief of army staff during IBB regime and also IBB's boy to execute him because he led a coup which he, Abacha was also part of. Did u expect IBB to have executed Buhari because he headed the government that was brought in by the coup led by that same IBB? Did u expect Murtala Mohammed to have executed Gowon in 1975 for being installed as head of state in 1966 after the coup that killed Aguiyi Ironsi which Murtala Mohammed was also part of the planners? They can only execute people who weren't part of their clique once they abort the coup, that's why people like Dimka, Orkar, etc were killed and Nzeogwu also demanded to be killed but Abacha, Buhari, IBB, Danjuma, Idiagbon, Bamaiyi etc were never executed because na the same group. My brother, na "them them" that's why they can't do jack, and na them still dey power so nothing can be done, even if something were to be done, the civilians in government must have chosen to get over it and focus on the future just as Buhari initially decided not to probe previous administrations before Jonathan's, but this doesn't change the fact that these coup plotters and accomplices truncated our democracy. Coup is a crime, whether IBB or any other head of the supreme military council bends the law or not.
Regarding army head of states in any part of the world facing trials, Marshal Philippe Petain was the chief of state of France from 1940 to 1944. He was an authoritarian military dictator that overthrew the democratically elected government of Albert Lebrun, he had backups from the Nazis, after 1944 when he was ousted, he was tried and imprisoned for life. This is one I can remember just standing, if I refer back to my history books I will surely be able to get more.
I'm not saying that Buhari, IBB, etc should be executed or imprisoned now because once u were able to seize power by coup and u later handed over power back to civilians or u were still ousted by another coup, the structures u must have set in place would be too hard for u to be brought up and executed again. But a reasonable, unbiased and educated person should ask, what exactly do these guys have to do with our democracy again since they also truncated that same democracy and set us backwards for so many years? And it's not like they now even regret truncating our democracy, but they might even still be proud of those crimes, so what exactly do they have to offer this same democracy they damaged? The second question would be, in this 21st century, in any of these civilized countries like US, Russia, France, UK that we look up to, how many coup plotters if they ar alive, have come back to contest for the presidency or prime ministerial slots of these nations and were voted for?
Guy, what do u mean by IBB my hero or my hatred for Buhari? Nnaa mehn, I'm too old for all these abeg, I'm way too old to be having a Nigerian politician as hero, more so ones who did so bad to our democracy like IBB and Buhari. If my truths about the truncation of our democracy by these men pain u, then I don't know what exactly to do about it cos I can't stop telling the truth.

I still stand by my stance that Buhari was never a coup plotters and have never plan a coup according to history, Some officers plan the coup and successfully truncated the administration of Shagari was way that truncated that of Azikwe and maybe due the kinds hierarchy then they decide to have Buhari who they believe is kinda honest to head the Govt.. Now tell me if Buhari had turn down that request won't Idiagbon or someone else take over? Yes we have to condemn it now but putting the blame on Buhari is what i will never agree with because he never mastermind any coup that both you and i know of.

APCmyheart:
I still stand by my stance that Buhari was never a coup plotters and have never plan a coup according to history, Some officers plan the coup and successfully truncated the administration of Shagari was way that truncated that of Azikwe and maybe due the kinds hierarchy then they decide to have Buhari who they believe is kinda honest to head the Govt.. Now tell me if Buhari had turn down that request won't Idiagbon or someone else take over? Yes we have to condemn it now but putting the blame on Buhari is what i will never agree with because he never mastermind any coup that both you and i know of.

Nnaa mehn, u ar free to stand by any stance u choose. I only corrected some wrong stuff u were putting up there like Dimka being Igbo, junior officers plotting coup etc which u rightly admitted and said it was because u hadn't gone back to history recently that's why u were making those mistakes. I gat no time to put any blame on any single person, cos so many people did it, both the coup plotters and the accomplices, IBB, Abacha, Bako, Idiagbon, Buhari etc. Buhari was just an accomplice and wasn't part of the coup plotters because he was called upon by the coup plotters and he accepted the call. In Nigerian law, being an accomplice to a crime is also as good as committing the crime. The constitution didn't in anyway empower Abacha to seize power from an elected government, so if Abacha stole the power, and called Buhari and gave him the power and Buhari accepted it, then it means Buhari is as bad as Abacha. If he wanted to be a man of integrity to the core, he would have rejected that offer and maintained his stand not to be part of a team committing crime cos he knew wella that coup is a crime.
My man, u condemn the coup, condemn IBB and Abacha, the plotters, but then, buhari that accepted the call to head the group that did the coup and even had one of the coup plotters as his deputy, u feel he shouldn't be condemned too? Wehdon Sir.

nwamehn:
Nnaa mehn, u ar free to stand by any stance u choose. I only corrected some wrong stuff u were putting up there like Dimka being Igbo, junior officers plotting coup etc which u rightly admitted and said it was because u hadn't gone back to history recently that's why u were making those mistakes. I gat no time to put any blame on any single person, cos so many people did it, both the coup plotters and the accomplices, IBB, Abacha, Bako, Idiagbon, Buhari etc. Buhari was just an accomplice and wasn't part of the coup plotters because he was called upon by the coup plotters and he accepted the call. In Nigerian law, being an accomplice to a crime is also as good as committing the crime. The constitution didn't in anyway empower Abacha to seize power from an elected government, so if Abacha stole the power, and called Buhari and gave him the power and Buhari accepted it, then it means Buhari is as bad as Abacha. If he wanted to be a man of integrity to the core, he would have rejected that offer and maintained his stand not to be part of a team committing crime cos he knew wella that coup is a crime.
My man, u condemn the coup, condemn IBB and Abacha, the plotters, but then, buhari that accepted the call to head the group that did the coup and even had one of the coup plotters as his deputy, u feel he shouldn't be condemned too? Wehdon Sir.

Okay i don hear..

4Play:
Nigeria went into recession under Shagari and Buhari took over during a recession. The Shagari recession was brutal: today's recession is a walk in the park by comparison.

The reasons for the severity of the Shagari recession probably lay in the scale of consumption/import growth and dollar-denominated credit expansion prior to the oil price collapse that triggered the recession. In the GEJ era: we had a lot of consumption growth but government borrowing was mainly Naira denominated


Buhari didn't help matters, just as now, but blaming him for starting the recession is an insult to history.

Though I was quite young, I remember reading horrid stories of mass unemployment during the Shagari era.

At that time, liberal economic reforms now popular globally were then in their in their infancy.
To make matters worse, the NPN government led by a weak Shagari (Jonathan now looks like a saint) was only interested in massive looting of funds

The only 2 countries that had gone any distance with free market reforms were Pinochet's Chile and Margeret Thatcher's Britain

APCmyheart:
Well what am trying to clarify was that Buhari was not actual part f the coup plotters and i think you already clear the air on that..


I think Buhari was call because the likes of IBB, Abacha, Bako could not trust idiagbon to to his doggedness..

Guy, this is "standard" practice. It was also adopted by Murtala Mohammed when he deposed Gowon. Like Buhari, Murtala was projected as not being part of the planning of the coup and was merely called upon to lead because of his character and leadership qualities. It is nothing but stratagem - portray the new leader as above board.

A good man